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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Aug 22, 2019 17:26:07 GMT
Its fairly clear, what with recent revelations from former players, that we have had a major problem with players and their attitudes. They have managed to effectively throw a number of managers under the bus including Hughes, Lambert (Less so towards the end), Rowett and now that seems to be, Jones. Jones felt he had cracked it after a difficult bedding in period but then a summer to move some. out and some in. However, it is evident that when the going gets a little tough, we still have elements of the team that basically have little fight in them and are happy to pick up their pay cheques at the end of each week.
The attitude of the players will not change by once again changing the manager. We have tried that and we are where we are. For me, as fans, as a board we must firmly get behind Jones and back him to root out the bad apples in our squad to help support him getting what he wants and what we want which is a team to be proud of. Perhaps he has been premature in selling us that type of side and his faith was somewhat presumptuous. However, it is clear he still has lots to do in this area and I for one hope he has the stomach for it and we have the patience for it.
It took him 6 months of a fairly coherent, low ability squad at Luton to get the team firing. He spent the first 4 months of his time here sorting out the shit and planning a way to help us get points. This could take one or 2 more windows, maybe 3 but I really think he will deliver for us in the long term. It took Daniel Farke 3 years at Norwich to implement his ideas, again, with a fairly malleable squad. The players are the common denominator here and its time we backed the manager - and let him know and the players know - that we are behind him.
NATHAN JONES BARMY ARMY!!!!!!
SGS
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 17:28:30 GMT
What bad apples? He had a bomb squad. He signed 11 players? Did he buy more? Has he turned them into bad apples? He’s not even playing most of the players he bought because they are even worse than we have?
I don’t understand this argument at all.
How many players have we had since Hughes (including his last year)? 30/40? Can it all be their fault?
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Post by questionable on Aug 22, 2019 17:28:43 GMT
Really??
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Aug 22, 2019 17:28:52 GMT
Its fairly clear, what with recent revelations from former players, that we have had a major problem with players and their attitudes. They have managed to effectively throw a number of managers under the bus including Hughes, Lambert (Less so towards the end), Rowett and now that seems to be, Jones. Jones felt he had cracked it after a difficult bedding in period but then a summer to move some. out and some in. However, it is evident that when the going gets a little tough, we still have elements of the team that basically have little fight in them and are happy to pick up their pay cheques at the end of each week. The attitude of the players will not change by once again changing the manager. We have tried that and we are where we are. For me, as fans, as a board we must firmly get behind Jones and back him to root out the bad apples in our squad to help support him getting what he wants and what we want which is a team to be proud of. Perhaps he has been premature in selling us that type of side and his faith was somewhat presumptuous. However, it is clear he still has lots to do in this area and I for one hope he has the stomach for it and we have the patience for it. It took him 6 months of a fairly coherent, low ability squad at Luton to get the team firing. He spent the first 4 months of his time here sorting out the shit and planning a way to help us get points. This could take one or 2 more windows, maybe 3 but I really think he will deliver for us in the long term. It took Daniel Farke 3 years at Norwich to implement his ideas, again, with a fairly malleable squad. The players are the common denominator here and its time we backed the manager - and let him know and the players know - that we are behind him. NATHAN JONES BARMY ARMY!!!!!! SGS Couldn't agree more |
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Aug 22, 2019 17:30:23 GMT
Yeah? Have you got a counter argument or are you another one of the bone heads demanding change because we aren't instantly tanking teams? SGS |
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 22, 2019 17:30:29 GMT
Who are these problem players though?
It's a completely new squad from the relegation team. It's a totally different dressing room from May 2018.
And Jones himself has added 12 players.
He's ditched ten completely - anyone he thought was a problem was summarily dumped into the bomb squad. And BMI has now effectively joined their ranks.
Only Allen, Butland and Shawcross remain - and I don't think anyone has ever suggested any of that lot are anything but good pros.
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Aug 22, 2019 17:32:12 GMT
Who are these problem players though? It's a completely new squad from the relegation team. It's a totally different dressing room from May 2017. And Jones himself has added 12 players. He's ditched ten completely - anyone he thought was a problem was summarily dumped into the bomb squad. And BMI has now effectively joined their ranks. Only Allen, Butland and Shawcross remain - and I don't think anyone has ever suggested any of that lot are anything but good pros. Im quoting Jones himself in that he has said he thought we had taken great strides in terms of attitude but evidently not. Or are just making mistakes and being brutally punished? SGS |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 17:34:34 GMT
Who are these problem players though? It's a completely new squad from the relegation team. It's a totally different dressing room from May 2017. And Jones himself has added 12 players. He's ditched ten completely - anyone he thought was a problem was summarily dumped into the bomb squad. And BMI has now effectively joined their ranks. Only Allen, Butland and Shawcross remain - and I don't think anyone has ever suggested any of that lot are anything but good pros. Im quoting Jones himself in that he has said he thought we had taken great strides in terms of attitude but evidently not. Or are just making mistakes and being brutally punished? SGS Odd isn’t it really that before he’s been praising his players and repeatedly telling us that they want to be here and play for this club and now, when his jobs nearing the line, he’s saying he actually isn’t sure anymore... Almost like he’s talking out of his arse again and blaming everyone but himself 🤔 |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 22, 2019 17:39:29 GMT
Yeah? Have you got a counter argument or are you another one of the bone heads demanding change because we aren't instantly tanking teams? SGS Tanking teams??? A 1-0 win would be welcome at this point!!! Lost 2-0 Lost 3-1 Drew 2-2 (could have easily been another loss near the end, with a better finisher) Lost 3-1 4 (goals for) 10 (goals against) As I said, a 1-0 win would be welcome!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 17:40:44 GMT
Yeah? Have you got a counter argument or are you another one of the bone heads demanding change because we aren't instantly tanking teams? SGS Tanking teams??? A 1-0 win would be welcome at this point!!! Lost 2-0 Lost 3-1 Drew 2-2 (could have easily been another loss near the end, with a better finisher) Lost 3-1 4 (goals for) 10 (goals against) As I said, a 1-0 win would be welcome!!! I’d settle for a draw and not be utterly embarrassed at this stage tbh |
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 22, 2019 17:41:55 GMT
Who are these problem players though? It's a completely new squad from the relegation team. It's a totally different dressing room from May 2017. And Jones himself has added 12 players. He's ditched ten completely - anyone he thought was a problem was summarily dumped into the bomb squad. And BMI has now effectively joined their ranks. Only Allen, Butland and Shawcross remain - and I don't think anyone has ever suggested any of that lot are anything but good pros. Im quoting Jones himself in that he has said he thought we had taken great strides in terms of attitude but evidently not. Or are just making mistakes and being brutally punished?
SGS Yeah. I saw his quotes. Haven't got a clue who he's on about. Anyone who's in the squad now is one of the 12 brought in by him ("we don't make mistakes in recruitment") Or is one of the ones he monitored during the last 4 months of last season and pre-season and has escaped the mass sifting process and is one he's decided passes the Jones character test. He now seems to be moving the goalposts. If there are still issues in the squad, I think we've got to conclude they're on him. |
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Post by stokeson on Aug 22, 2019 17:43:22 GMT
Barmy is about right.!!!!
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Aug 22, 2019 17:44:22 GMT
We should not sack Jones because he will be the right man for league 1 thats his level & he is taking us there.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 22, 2019 17:44:27 GMT
Tanking teams??? A 1-0 win would be welcome at this point!!! Lost 2-0 Lost 3-1 Drew 2-2 (could have easily been another loss near the end, with a better finisher) Lost 3-1 4 (goals for) 10 (goals against) As I said, a 1-0 win would be welcome!!! I’d settle for a draw and not be utterly embarrassed at this stage tbh Another loss on Sat'day is going to give us 1 draw and 4 losses in the first 5 games, add that onto Jones's record from last season, doesn't give good reading!!! |
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Post by Goonie on Aug 22, 2019 17:48:12 GMT
If the case is it's the players fault then Jones has to act
I wouldn't want Pulis back but he wouldn't stand for it
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 22, 2019 17:49:41 GMT
Why would anyone believe a word Jones says? The bloke is a walking contradiction.
Get him gone.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 22, 2019 17:54:10 GMT
If the case is it's the players fault then Jones has to act I wouldn't want Pulis back but he wouldn't stand for it I'm not keen on having Pulis back (to say the least), but head sort this shit out, even if it meant watching dross football!!! Oh god, what am I saying!!! 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 17:56:45 GMT
If the case is it's the players fault then Jones has to act I wouldn't want Pulis back but he wouldn't stand for it I'm not keen on having Pulis back (to say the least), but head sort this shit out, even if it meant watching dross football!!! Oh god, what am I saying!!! 😂 It’s a bit like going to the dentist. You don’t want to go but then neither do you want all your teeth to fall out... |
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Post by fca47 on Aug 22, 2019 18:02:28 GMT
I must say I am a bit disillusioned with how things have gone. Playing players in positions they will never fit into. But we really don't have much choice but to persevere. Otherwise we are going to be stuck with another load of players any new manager doesn't fancy. Give him at least 10 games this season.
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 22, 2019 18:06:17 GMT
Its fairly clear, what with recent revelations from former players, that we have had a major problem with players and their attitudes. They have managed to effectively throw a number of managers under the bus including Hughes, Lambert (Less so towards the end), Rowett and now that seems to be, Jones. Jones felt he had cracked it after a difficult bedding in period but then a summer to move some. out and some in. However, it is evident that when the going gets a little tough, we still have elements of the team that basically have little fight in them and are happy to pick up their pay cheques at the end of each week. The attitude of the players will not change by once again changing the manager. We have tried that and we are where we are. For me, as fans, as a board we must firmly get behind Jones and back him to root out the bad apples in our squad to help support him getting what he wants and what we want which is a team to be proud of. Perhaps he has been premature in selling us that type of side and his faith was somewhat presumptuous. However, it is clear he still has lots to do in this area and I for one hope he has the stomach for it and we have the patience for it. It took him 6 months of a fairly coherent, low ability squad at Luton to get the team firing. He spent the first 4 months of his time here sorting out the shit and planning a way to help us get points. This could take one or 2 more windows, maybe 3 but I really think he will deliver for us in the long term. It took Daniel Farke 3 years at Norwich to implement his ideas, again, with a fairly malleable squad. The players are the common denominator here and its time we backed the manager - and let him know and the players know - that we are behind him. NATHAN JONES BARMY ARMY!!!!!! SGS I admire your loyalty Jon 😎 |
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Post by serpico on Aug 22, 2019 18:10:02 GMT
Where I would cut him some slack is the fact that half of our goals conceded have come from unnecessary mistakes, Butland has cost us 4 goals, etebo’s slack pass cost us a goal last night, you can’t blame jones for butlands mistakes but you can blame him if he persists in picking him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 18:15:38 GMT
The thing is though ....
Yes we keep saying what a great guy he is, talks well, passionate, energetic etc. He needs his own players to play his own system. The list of reasons why he fails is long,
When LMH took over, he had to convert the players that he had available, from hoofball, to playing football. He got there eventually (a month or so), and then he honed the team with his own additions. I would say that he totally succeeded (Liverpool 6-1), but eventually his flame burned out (for whatever reason).
Jones has totally failed to get anything out of the players that he inherited. The players weren't all shit, and any half decent manager should have been able to get a tune out of them. He now has his own team and what happens? Things get worse.
I don't think that he can manage at all.
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Post by nodders on Aug 22, 2019 18:18:05 GMT
Odd isn’t it really that before he’s been praising his players and repeatedly telling us that they want to be here and play for this club and now, when his jobs nearing the line, he’s saying he actually isn’t sure anymore... Almost like he’s talking out of his arse again and blaming everyone but himself 🤔 Don't know why you think "his jobs nearing the line". I think the powers that be (the family not God), intend for him to be here for the long haul, until the rebuilding job is complete. I think he needs a couple seasons to build a decent side. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 18:20:18 GMT
Odd isn’t it really that before he’s been praising his players and repeatedly telling us that they want to be here and play for this club and now, when his jobs nearing the line, he’s saying he actually isn’t sure anymore... Almost like he’s talking out of his arse again and blaming everyone but himself 🤔 Don't know why you think "his jobs nearing the line". I think the powers that be (the family not God), intend for him to be here for the long haul, until the rebuilding job is complete. He has literally said it himself or alluded to it so that’s clearly not the case |
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Post by bornscfcdiescfc on Aug 22, 2019 18:31:51 GMT
Its fairly clear, what with recent revelations from former players, that we have had a major problem with players and their attitudes. They have managed to effectively throw a number of managers under the bus including Hughes, Lambert (Less so towards the end), Rowett and now that seems to be, Jones. Jones felt he had cracked it after a difficult bedding in period but then a summer to move some. out and some in. However, it is evident that when the going gets a little tough, we still have elements of the team that basically have little fight in them and are happy to pick up their pay cheques at the end of each week. The attitude of the players will not change by once again changing the manager. We have tried that and we are where we are. For me, as fans, as a board we must firmly get behind Jones and back him to root out the bad apples in our squad to help support him getting what he wants and what we want which is a team to be proud of. Perhaps he has been premature in selling us that type of side and his faith was somewhat presumptuous. However, it is clear he still has lots to do in this area and I for one hope he has the stomach for it and we have the patience for it. It took him 6 months of a fairly coherent, low ability squad at Luton to get the team firing. He spent the first 4 months of his time here sorting out the shit and planning a way to help us get points. This could take one or 2 more windows, maybe 3 but I really think he will deliver for us in the long term. It took Daniel Farke 3 years at Norwich to implement his ideas, again, with a fairly malleable squad. The players are the common denominator here and its time we backed the manager - and let him know and the players know - that we are behind him. NATHAN JONES BARMY ARMY!!!!!! SGS I am really struggling to find anything to back your thread. A manager is quote "a person responsible for controlling or administering an organization or group of staff", Nathan Jones should not have any bad apples at this football club otherwise they wouldn't be playing or would be sold...He has been manager for 8 months ..He alone is responsible ...we have a squad of 32 players...Moritz Bauer/Bruno Martins/Kevin Wimmer/ Imbula/N`Diaye/Diouff are the only ones I can think of not considered...3 are here 3 are not so please tell us who are the bad eggs ? who are supposed to be wrecking our club...who picks the team/ who dictates the formation/he has been found out..i would give any manager the chance but his has passed |
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Post by s7oke on Aug 22, 2019 18:33:34 GMT
Its fairly clear, what with recent revelations from former players, that we have had a major problem with players and their attitudes. They have managed to effectively throw a number of managers under the bus including Hughes, Lambert (Less so towards the end), Rowett and now that seems to be, Jones. Jones felt he had cracked it after a difficult bedding in period but then a summer to move some. out and some in. However, it is evident that when the going gets a little tough, we still have elements of the team that basically have little fight in them and are happy to pick up their pay cheques at the end of each week. The attitude of the players will not change by once again changing the manager. We have tried that and we are where we are. For me, as fans, as a board we must firmly get behind Jones and back him to root out the bad apples in our squad to help support him getting what he wants and what we want which is a team to be proud of. Perhaps he has been premature in selling us that type of side and his faith was somewhat presumptuous. However, it is clear he still has lots to do in this area and I for one hope he has the stomach for it and we have the patience for it. It took him 6 months of a fairly coherent, low ability squad at Luton to get the team firing. He spent the first 4 months of his time here sorting out the shit and planning a way to help us get points. This could take one or 2 more windows, maybe 3 but I really think he will deliver for us in the long term. It took Daniel Farke 3 years at Norwich to implement his ideas, again, with a fairly malleable squad. The players are the common denominator here and its time we backed the manager - and let him know and the players know - that we are behind him. NATHAN JONES BARMY ARMY!!!!!! SGS Totally agree |
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Post by bornscfcdiescfc on Aug 22, 2019 18:38:02 GMT
Where I would cut him some slack is the fact that half of our goals conceded have come from unnecessary mistakes, Butland has cost us 4 goals, etebo’s slack pass cost us a goal last night, you can’t blame jones for butlands mistakes but you can blame him if he persists in picking him. Every single goal conceded by any team can be analyzed and a reason found / person blamed. just watch Sky TV BT sport . Fact is we have won 4 games in 30 and none in 10...someone has to go and unfortunately it is the man who picks the team... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 18:40:26 GMT
How long and how many matches has he had ?
Plus how many of his own players
Just wondering
GD
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Post by Miles Offside on Aug 22, 2019 18:53:23 GMT
While it's true he inherited a mess, in a way that's no longer the point. He's got the 20 he wants to work with (half of them he's brought in) and they play to his instructions.
Goalkeeping mistakes and poor finishing aside, I honestly can't see what he's achieved in all those long days he supposedly puts in at the training ground.
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 22, 2019 19:05:38 GMT
Has Jones ran over a black cat?
You have to feel for him, luck certainly isn't on his side.
It's seems ridiculous that every time someone shoots on target it goes in. The stats are largely positive given he has built this squad on a shoe string.
His luck has to change,he needs to stick with what he knows as when managers start changing things it tends to get desperate and almost always never works. The performances have been largely there but small errors are becoming very costly. I would go as far as saying that last nights defeat is on Jack not Jones, and for the 1st Allen too for leaving their player on his jackjones to have a free shot at goal even though Jack should have saved that.
Sacking Jones will solve nothing, overall there has been progress and a win or two could really kick start our season.
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