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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 10:31:35 GMT
I am struggling to point too much blame at Jones, surely the players have more impact on things - particularly when we can all agree that it is errors rather than a lack of quality.
We used to have players who could sniff out danger: Whelan, Delap, Whitehead, even Diao - and those players lead by example. Shawcross is an immense leader and has a blatant affect on the way the side is organised when he's playing.
At the moment, we've got Baath and Allen - both of whom have questionable leadership and on-pitch-management.
When we signed Gerry Taggart for a handful of games, there was a visible change to the discipline of the team - his presence and lets face it, bollockings, got the team doing what they needed to be doing: the basics.
Jones needs to organise and motivate, but when they're on the pitch they need someone with them to dictate shape and organisation.
I'm sure this will be shot down, but I would bring back Whelan to sit in front of the defence and organise everyone from back to front. He's made a career out of it - and we're crying out for someone of his ability to build a unit.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 22, 2019 10:35:06 GMT
I am struggling to point too much blame at Jones, surely the players have more impact on things - particularly when we can all agree that it is errors rather than a lack of quality. We used to have players who could sniff out danger: Whelan, Delap, Whitehead, even Diao - and those players lead by example. Shawcross is an immense leader and has a blatant affect on the way the side is organised when he's playing. At the moment, we've got Baath and Allen - both of whom have questionable leadership and on-pitch-management. When we signed Gerry Taggart for a handful of games, there was a visible change to the discipline of the team - his presence and lets face it, bollockings, got the team doing what they needed to be doing: the basics. Jones needs to organise and motivate, but when they're on the pitch they need someone with them to dictate shape and organisation. I'm sure this will be shot down, but I would bring back Whelan to sit in front of the mistake and organise everyone from back to front. He's made a career out of it - and we're crying out for someone of his ability to build a unit. He’s just signed a contract at Hearts. The ship has sailed even if we wanted him back. |
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Post by jeycov on Aug 22, 2019 11:15:16 GMT
Butland when he’s in the right frame of mind ?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Aug 22, 2019 11:21:33 GMT
Butland when he’s in the right frame of mind ? Who knows,maybe the captaincy could help him. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 22, 2019 11:24:42 GMT
I am struggling to point too much blame at Jones, surely the players have more impact on things - particularly when we can all agree that it is errors rather than a lack of quality. We used to have players who could sniff out danger: Whelan, Delap, Whitehead, even Diao - and those players lead by example. Shawcross is an immense leader and has a blatant affect on the way the side is organised when he's playing. At the moment, we've got Baath and Allen - both of whom have questionable leadership and on-pitch-management. When we signed Gerry Taggart for a handful of games, there was a visible change to the discipline of the team - his presence and lets face it, bollockings, got the team doing what they needed to be doing: the basics. Jones needs to organise and motivate, but when they're on the pitch they need someone with them to dictate shape and organisation. I'm sure this will be shot down, but I would bring back Whelan to sit in front of the defence and organise everyone from back to front. He's made a career out of it - and we're crying out for someone of his ability to build a unit. Batth is not a leader. He is quiet as a mouse and a shocking footballer to boot. The less said about Allen the better. If he starts on Saturday, I'll be prioritising other things and will not be going again. I said he was shit for the 1st goal at the game last night but I didn't realise just how pathetic he was until I saw the goals on TV this morning. Drop Allen or I'm done. I can't watch that useless twat any longer. |
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Post by nott1 on Aug 22, 2019 11:27:09 GMT
Butland when he’s in the right frame of mind ? Who knows,maybe the captaincy could help him. That's good play, shit and get made captain? |
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Post by jeycov on Aug 22, 2019 11:29:17 GMT
Who knows,maybe the captaincy could help him. That's good play, shit and get made captain? WHEN he’s in the right frame of mind The players directly in front of him need organising for sure |
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 22, 2019 11:31:55 GMT
Nathan Collins.
Stop fucking around Jones, play him give him captain and watch him, and us, flourish.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 11:33:49 GMT
Collins, Etebo, Gregory,
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 22, 2019 11:37:47 GMT
It's our lack of composure that is noticeable. Last night we had nobody to calm things down after that calamitous first goal. Someone to keep hold of the ball and settle things down while we regroup.
We seem to have nobody like that in our team, and that is killing us.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 22, 2019 12:25:27 GMT
It's our lack of composure that is noticeable. Last night we had nobody to calm things down after that calamitous first goal. Someone to keep hold of the ball and settle things down while we regroup. We seem to have nobody like that in our team, and that is killing us. You arent going to do that with a midfield 3 of woods Allen and clucas. 2 are shit and the other can only pass 5 yards in one direction. I agree though. We've needed serious surgery in midfield for 2 seasons and it hasn't happened...or at least happened effectively |
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Post by mcw on Aug 22, 2019 12:31:41 GMT
That's good play, shit and get made captain? WHEN he’s in the right frame of mind The players directly in front of him need organising for sure Incredible, I used to play in goal and was not captain. I spent nearly the whole game shouting at my back four to get them back in position if required. That is 101 of goalkeeping, a goalkeeper who is not vocal when coming for the ball and also talking to his back 4 (or whatever system) throughout the game is only 75% of the goalkeeper they should be. Basically Jack- captain or not- should be in charge of that back 4 and they should know that. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 12:44:19 GMT
WHEN he’s in the right frame of mind The players directly in front of him need organising for sure Incredible, I used to play in goal and was not captain. I spent nearly the whole game shouting at my back four to get them back in position if required. That is 101 of goalkeeping, a goalkeeper who is not vocal when coming for the ball and also talking to his back 4 (or whatever system) throughout the game is only 75% of the goalkeeper they should be. Basically Jack- captain or not- should be in charge of that back 4 and they should know that. I agree. Sorensen and Shawcross were in constant communication, yelling between them whenever there was a sniff of danger. Perfect set up. |
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Post by mcw on Aug 22, 2019 13:28:20 GMT
Nathan Collins. Stop fucking around Jones, play him give him captain and watch him, and us, flourish. I liked Danny Baath last season as a solid dependable defender, but this season he seems lethargic, slow on the ball and was almost as culpable as Butland for that second goal. How the hell can a seasoned defender of good quality let a ball travel 70 yards and then let it bounce in the danger area at the edge of the box. Collins may make some mistakes but given Baath is now adding those to his game then agree he should be put in for a stint. The question is who goes in with him, Lindsay hasn't really inspired me with much confidence and doesn't look much like a leader either. Not seen Cameron Carter Vickers, but it may be worth giving them a go as a pairing, if he is not a leader either then we will be leaving it up to an 18 year old to take up the mantle- he seems up for it though! |
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Post by onionman on Aug 22, 2019 13:54:38 GMT
I am struggling to point too much blame at Jones, surely the players have more impact on things - particularly when we can all agree that it is errors rather than a lack of quality. We used to have players who could sniff out danger: Whelan, Delap, Whitehead, even Diao - and those players lead by example. Shawcross is an immense leader and has a blatant affect on the way the side is organised when he's playing. At the moment, we've got Baath and Allen - both of whom have questionable leadership and on-pitch-management. When we signed Gerry Taggart for a handful of games, there was a visible change to the discipline of the team - his presence and lets face it, bollockings, got the team doing what they needed to be doing: the basics. Jones needs to organise and motivate, but when they're on the pitch they need someone with them to dictate shape and organisation. I'm sure this will be shot down, but I would bring back Whelan to sit in front of the defence and organise everyone from back to front. He's made a career out of it - and we're crying out for someone of his ability to build a unit. Batth is not a leader. He is quiet as a mouse and a shocking footballer to boot. The less said about Allen the better. If he starts on Saturday, I'll be prioritising other things and will not be going again. I said he was shit for the 1st goal at the game last night but I didn't realise just how pathetic he was until I saw the goals on TV this morning. Drop Allen or I'm done. I can't watch that useless twat any longer. I watch on an unreliable stream every week because I live overseas. I’m not sure what it is but there’s something about this that highlights Allen’s failings more than you normally see at the game. He’s always there on the edge of the screen. Near enough to the ball to be on the screen, but not close enough to do anything useful. I think it’s affecting my mental health now. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 15:22:57 GMT
I am struggling to point too much blame at Jones, surely the players have more impact on things - particularly when we can all agree that it is errors rather than a lack of quality. We used to have players who could sniff out danger: Whelan, Delap, Whitehead, even Diao - and those players lead by example. Shawcross is an immense leader and has a blatant affect on the way the side is organised when he's playing. At the moment, we've got Baath and Allen - both of whom have questionable leadership and on-pitch-management. When we signed Gerry Taggart for a handful of games, there was a visible change to the discipline of the team - his presence and lets face it, bollockings, got the team doing what they needed to be doing: the basics. Jones needs to organise and motivate, but when they're on the pitch they need someone with them to dictate shape and organisation. I'm sure this will be shot down, but I would bring back Whelan to sit in front of the defence and organise everyone from back to front. He's made a career out of it - and we're crying out for someone of his ability to build a unit. Batth is not a leader. He is quiet as a mouse and a shocking footballer to boot. The less said about Allen the better. If he starts on Saturday, I'll be prioritising other things and will not be going again. I said he was shit for the 1st goal at the game last night but I didn't realise just how pathetic he was until I saw the goals on TV this morning. Drop Allen or I'm done. I can't watch that useless twat any longer. If we do have an on pitch leader it's Joe Allen. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what everyone is saying, he's playing really poorly, but he's the one player everybody else in the team looks to for leadership. He's our longest serving player and he's got bags of experience from other clubs and his country. He never hides, always offers himself for the ball, if a team mate is in a quandry, or puts in a tackle where others are found wanting (Ince especially); he rarely does something useful with it, but he doesn't shirk the responsibility. He's not the shouting type of leader, but in theory he leads by example. The only other player who offers leadership qualities is McClean. |
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 22, 2019 15:28:46 GMT
Nathan Collins. Stop fucking around Jones, play him give him captain and watch him, and us, flourish. I liked Danny Baath last season as a solid dependable defender, but this season he seems lethargic, slow on the ball and was almost as culpable as Butland for that second goal. How the hell can a seasoned defender of good quality let a ball travel 70 yards and then let it bounce in the danger area at the edge of the box. Collins may make some mistakes but given Baath is now adding those to his game then agree he should be put in for a stint. The question is who goes in with him, Lindsay hasn't really inspired me with much confidence and doesn't look much like a leader either. Not seen Cameron Carter Vickers, but it may be worth giving them a go as a pairing, if he is not a leader either then we will be leaving it up to an 18 year old to take up the mantle- he seems up for it though! On your point about Baath, there is NO WAY Collins or any others let that bounce there it was absolutely ludicrous. I’d go to a back 3 with Carter Vickers and Lindsay. I don’t mind Lindsay he wins A LOT in both boxes. With the team looking something like this Training cone Collins CCV Lindsay Edwards woods Etebo mcclean Powell Gregory Hogan |
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 22, 2019 15:29:25 GMT
Batth is not a leader. He is quiet as a mouse and a shocking footballer to boot. The less said about Allen the better. If he starts on Saturday, I'll be prioritising other things and will not be going again. I said he was shit for the 1st goal at the game last night but I didn't realise just how pathetic he was until I saw the goals on TV this morning. Drop Allen or I'm done. I can't watch that useless twat any longer. I watch on an unreliable stream every week because I live overseas. I’m not sure what it is but there’s something about this that highlights Allen’s failings more than you normally see at the game. He’s always there on the edge of the screen. Near enough to the ball to be on the screen, but not close enough to do anything useful. I think it’s affecting my mental health now. What a great description of Joe Allen’s positioning. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 15:29:53 GMT
Butland when he’s in the right frame of mind ? Who knows,maybe the captaincy could help him. It didn't really work for him when he had the band for about three games 18 months ago, when we're still in the PL, some would say it weighed him down as he was trying to do too much in the game vs Leicester. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 22, 2019 15:30:41 GMT
Batth is not a leader. He is quiet as a mouse and a shocking footballer to boot. The less said about Allen the better. If he starts on Saturday, I'll be prioritising other things and will not be going again. I said he was shit for the 1st goal at the game last night but I didn't realise just how pathetic he was until I saw the goals on TV this morning. Drop Allen or I'm done. I can't watch that useless twat any longer. If we do have an on pitch leader it's Joe Allen. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what everyone is saying, he's playing really poorly, but he's the one player everybody else in the team looks to for leadership. He's our longest serving player and he's got bags of experience from other clubs and his country. He never hides, always offers himself for the ball, if a team mate is in a quandry, or puts in a tackle where others are found wanting (Ince especially); he rarely does something useful with it, but he doesn't shirk the responsibility. He's not the shouting type of leader, but in theory he leads by example. The only other player who offers leadership qualities is McClean. I couldn't disagree more. Allen hides more than anyone in the team. He runs around for sure but never in areas that help the team hence why hes on the periphery of everything. If hes our leader on the pitch it says everything about why we are a bunch of gutless losers who shirk responsibility the second something goes against them. |
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Post by nik80 on Aug 22, 2019 15:33:48 GMT
I am struggling to point too much blame at Jones, surely the players have more impact on things - particularly when we can all agree that it is errors rather than a lack of quality. We used to have players who could sniff out danger: Whelan, Delap, Whitehead, even Diao - and those players lead by example. Shawcross is an immense leader and has a blatant affect on the way the side is organised when he's playing. At the moment, we've got Baath and Allen - both of whom have questionable leadership and on-pitch-management. When we signed Gerry Taggart for a handful of games, there was a visible change to the discipline of the team - his presence and lets face it, bollockings, got the team doing what they needed to be doing: the basics. Jones needs to organise and motivate, but when they're on the pitch they need someone with them to dictate shape and organisation. I'm sure this will be shot down, but I would bring back Whelan to sit in front of the defence and organise everyone from back to front. He's made a career out of it - and we're crying out for someone of his ability to build a unit. But Jones has told us he’s now got leaders all over the pitch! They’re very, very quiet these leaders 🙄 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 17:02:03 GMT
If we do have an on pitch leader it's Joe Allen. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what everyone is saying, he's playing really poorly, but he's the one player everybody else in the team looks to for leadership. He's our longest serving player and he's got bags of experience from other clubs and his country. He never hides, always offers himself for the ball, if a team mate is in a quandry, or puts in a tackle where others are found wanting (Ince especially); he rarely does something useful with it, but he doesn't shirk the responsibility. He's not the shouting type of leader, but in theory he leads by example. The only other player who offers leadership qualities is McClean. I couldn't disagree more. Allen hides more than anyone in the team. He runs around for sure but never in areas that help the team hence why hes on the periphery of everything. If hes our leader on the pitch it says everything about why we are a bunch of gutless losers who shirk responsibility the second something goes against them. I don't disagree with your disagreement. He's the foremost of the worst. I'll still say he offers himself, but he doesn't help us with his help. And yet, apart from Collins who's not in Jones' short term plans, you can't point to anyone who's a better leader. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 17:23:21 GMT
I reckon Collins would thrive on being made captain.He seems a confident young man who would take the extra responsibility on board with no problem
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Post by RAF on Aug 22, 2019 17:30:22 GMT
Nathan Collins. Stop fucking around Jones, play him give him captain and watch him, and us, flourish. I liked Danny Baath last season as a solid dependable defender, but this season he seems lethargic, slow on the ball and was almost as culpable as Butland for that second goal. How the hell can a seasoned defender of good quality let a ball travel 70 yards and then let it bounce in the danger area at the edge of the box. Collins may make some mistakes but given Baath is now adding those to his game then agree he should be put in for a stint. The question is who goes in with him, Lindsay hasn't really inspired me with much confidence and doesn't look much like a leader either. Not seen Cameron Carter Vickers, but it may be worth giving them a go as a pairing, if he is not a leader either then we will be leaving it up to an 18 year old to take up the mantle- he seems up for it though! It's a seemingly common theme. Decent player comes here and within 6 months we have fucking destroyed them. This club is rotten to the very core, lessons learnt my fucking ringpiece! H |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 22, 2019 17:50:45 GMT
They are the players Jones should be looking to play all the time, nevermind keeping Etebo on the bench for players like Allen, Woods or Clucas.... He's back now, he's had a rest, and now it's time he was on from the start!!! |
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 22, 2019 19:26:31 GMT
I reckon Collins would thrive on being made captain.He seems a confident young man who would take the extra responsibility on board with no problem I agree I don’t think we know just how good Collins actually is yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 19:54:35 GMT
Collins was captain of our academy team,
and he's "already captain in everything he does", says the manager.
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