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Post by ParaPsych on Aug 22, 2019 11:43:51 GMT
Forget tactics and team selection for a second, he's clearly failing at getting into their heads and giving them even the smallest semblance of confidence. Good managers can do that.
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Post by stoke111 on Aug 22, 2019 11:44:33 GMT
It's not Jones my arse. Who the fuck is it then? The players. If you read the original post it does state this. That is his argument...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 11:44:42 GMT
You just carry on sucking the players off then,who have been shit for 3 YEARS. Hang on a fucking minute. Edwards - played one season and did very well Baath - NJ signing Lindsay - NJ signing Collins - played about 5 games McLean - may as well have been signed by him given his much he loves him but only been here a year Clucas - may as well have been signed by him given how much he loves him but only been here a year Hogan - NJ signing Gregory - NJ signing Vokes - NJ signing Ince - only playing as an NJ signing has been injured. So that leaves Woods (has ousted NJ signing Cousins) who has been here a year, Allen and Butland (who is still number one despite an NJ signing). Now tell me it's fuck all to do with NJ? Thank you. People are just repeating this now tired rhetoric that its the players not the manager when we've had two managers since relegation who have bought even worse ones. It's beyond me. Last year they didn't look like they were trying and that was the Rowett signings. This year they did look like the were trying until yesterday but somehow its all players with bad attitudes that aren't trying? How! Exactly how manager players are we talking under the the "last 4 managers" - 30? 40?
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 22, 2019 11:46:58 GMT
So why does Jones insist on playing Allen ? I honestly couldn’t tell you, but its the wrong decision. That doesn’t mean that i want him out, not yet. On the whole his decision making is poor and does not show any signs of improving, this is his team his responsibility his job he has talked the talk when it comes to walking the walk he has fallen flat on his face, the writing is on the wall the board can not ignore the facts for much longer, if we carry on the way we are we will be relegated the situation needs addressing now.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 22, 2019 11:48:22 GMT
Is he still here? Get yer coat on NJ your time is up!
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Post by butlerstbob on Aug 22, 2019 11:49:52 GMT
We've won 4 games out of 26 under Nathan Jones. Swansea have won 4 out of 5 under their new manager Steve Cooper, despite losing their two best players in the summer. Sheffield Wednesday have won 3 out of 4 under their caretaker manager Lee Bullen. Birmingham have 2 wins from their new manager Josep Clotet Ruiz's first five games. Forest have 2 wins from their new managers Sabri Lamouchi's first five, as well as a creditable draw away at Leeds. Has anybody even heard of the Forest and Birmingham managers, and possibly even Swansea's? When does it actually become Nathan's fault? I was actually still right behind Jones until I read this.... No manager can legislate for his England number 2 keeper dropping 2 bollocks like he did last night which left us with a mountain to climb but those stats are damning.... Unless of course we are that rotten within the club that even Pep would struggle with the club as a whole? But to bring Woods off instead of Allen, then remove a striker at 2 down to then replace the only attacking midfielder with Vokes is just lunacy! And surely if other managers can get a tune out of far lesser quality squads than us the it only points to one man unfortunately
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 22, 2019 11:50:17 GMT
Listen,can we just get behind the bloke... If pro footballers cant adapt to a system or shape then thats on THEM. 4 Managers now these shithouse players have got the sack and still its not them its the gaffer!! We need to stick with and support jones... Fuck these charalatan chancers,make it known we are with the manager. They will have nowhwere to hide then,we cannot keep sacking managers because of toss players who dont want to be here!! Keep the faith,rant over. A manager's job in any field of life is to maximise the performance with resources available. Those resources are never infinite, or perfect. His resources - at the start of his reign - were a team that was winning more than it was losing, although having many flaws and problems. He gained extra resources: time (8 months), investment (c20m), support from Board and club (to get 11 new players). The performance he is now achieving is the worst in any of the 92 league clubs bar Southend. I'm not sure I understand the conclusion that its not Jones.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 22, 2019 11:51:23 GMT
It must be frustrating as a manager when you see "professional" players who are paid £10000s pounds a month, make schoolboy footballing errors. I know there are other issues re selection/shape but there have been so many mistakes. Overseen and managed by Jones my friend, the buck stops there the board have seen to that, he is another chancer and a yes man who is taking us deeper into the mire.
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 22, 2019 11:51:35 GMT
I honestly couldn’t tell you, but its the wrong decision. That doesn’t mean that i want him out, not yet. On the whole his decision making is poor and does not show any signs of improving, this is his team his responsibility his job he has talked the talk when it comes to walking the walk he has fallen flat on his face, the writing is on the wall the board can not ignore the facts for much longer, if we carry on the way we are we will be relegated the situation needs addressing now. Not for me, not yet.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 22, 2019 11:55:08 GMT
On the whole his decision making is poor and does not show any signs of improving, this is his team his responsibility his job he has talked the talk when it comes to walking the walk he has fallen flat on his face, the writing is on the wall the board can not ignore the facts for much longer, if we carry on the way we are we will be relegated the situation needs addressing now. Not for me, not yet. How much lower does he have to take us before you believe the time is right to ditch him ? his record since January is appalling by anybody's standards.
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Post by hanibal7 on Aug 22, 2019 11:58:01 GMT
Listen,can we just get behind the bloke... If pro footballers cant adapt to a system or shape then thats on THEM. 4 Managers now these shithouse players have got the sack and still its not them its the gaffer!! We need to stick with and support jones... Fuck these charalatan chancers,make it known we are with the manager. They will have nowhwere to hide then,we cannot keep sacking managers because of toss players who dont want to be here!! Keep the faith,rant over. Are U pissed
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 22, 2019 12:01:14 GMT
How much lower does he have to take us before you believe the time is right to ditch him ? his record since January is appalling by anybody's standards. These next 48 hours are probably going to be the most important of his career to date, now he has to make some really big calls. He really needs to drop Butland, Batth and Allen and seriously consider ditching the diamond too. Whether he's got the stones to make such big calls now, could easily define the rest of his career. A tonking on Saturday, when he has stuck with same formation and the same failing senior players, will make his position virtually untenable, you would think.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 12:03:58 GMT
You can blame NJ for picking the team and subs and when they are made etc however you can't blame NJ for so called players giving it away. He has a squad of more than decent players but if a couple of them throw games away that's not his fault. How can any manager take blame for the first two goals last night? Without those two goals last night it would have been a different game but it happened and the players have to pay the price. No manager can play a system when his players give it up, Butland ruined his game last night and with QPR and Charlton. He is then chasing the game and making subs to try and rectify it. How about the players not fucking it up to start with give the bloke a chance. He's coaching and there are signs of it coming good BUT let's not kid ourselves in all the games so far we stated well only for a calamity to undo it all. With the main culprit being our keeper, yes fault is elsewhere too but the main issue is Butland he has played himself OUT of the side with his sheer incompetence. NJ imho has things on the right track with effort and desire but in only 10 of his side. I don't care about feelings or whatever Jack deserves all the shit and more if it's good enough and acceptable to slate and ridicule outfield players it's good enough for our shite keeper. His form is the worst of ALL of the players to take to the field by a fucking country mile. I don't care about excuses but Jack has cost us points in 3 games not alone but the major factor in those defeats.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Aug 22, 2019 12:05:03 GMT
?? YOU asked ME what team I would go for ? would I pick Allen..... no I wouldn't , I will support whatever team go out in RED and WHITE but it doesn't mean I anner got an opinion . I just don't slag the manager off at every opportunity with my "expert" opinion.
PS --- I wont ask him what I should do with my Commercial accounts this afternoon either
I wasn't having a pop just saying how I see it.
Fuckwit... Go start a row with someone who knows you
Yeah the reason I asked you, was to see if you had an opinion on the team selection. And you have, so, you're obviously a bit of an "expert" yourself, aren't you? And there's absolutely no need to call me a fuckwit either ... Paul, if you want to talk to someone about being called a fuckwit, I'm here for you!!!
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 22, 2019 12:08:57 GMT
How much lower does he have to take us before you believe the time is right to ditch him ? his record since January is appalling by anybody's standards. Its a case of I don’t see where we turn from here tbh, he has been backed and to change him after the backing he has received would be wrong, the board have to stand by there man. Whether thats right or wrong.
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Post by mcw on Aug 22, 2019 12:10:52 GMT
Listen,can we just get behind the bloke... If pro footballers cant adapt to a system or shape then thats on THEM. 4 Managers now these shithouse players have got the sack and still its not them its the gaffer!! We need to stick with and support jones... Fuck these charalatan chancers,make it known we are with the manager. They will have nowhwere to hide then,we cannot keep sacking managers because of toss players who dont want to be here!! Keep the faith,rant over. A manager's job in any field of life is to maximise the performance with resources available. Those resources are never infinite, or perfect. His resources - at the start of his reign - were a team that was winning more than it was losing, although having many flaws and problems. He gained extra resources: time (8 months), investment (c20m), support from Board and club (to get 11 new players). The performance he is now achieving is the worst in any of the 92 league clubs bar Southend. I'm not sure I understand the conclusion that its not Jones. Christ, imagine being a Southend fan!
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Post by sheriffofrockridge on Aug 22, 2019 12:32:02 GMT
There is no such thing as bad Indians - only bad chiefs The buck should always stop with the chief (in this case the management) You've obviously never been to Koh-i-Noor up Castle then.
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Post by daveandeddy on Aug 22, 2019 12:35:38 GMT
?? YOU asked ME what team I would go for ? would I pick Allen..... no I wouldn't , I will support whatever team go out in RED and WHITE but it doesn't mean I anner got an opinion . I just don't slag the manager off at every opportunity with my "expert" opinion.
PS --- I wont ask him what I should do with my Commercial accounts this afternoon either
I wasn't having a pop just saying how I see it.
Fuckwit... Go start a row with someone who knows you
Yeah the reason I asked you, was to see if you had an opinion on the team selection. And you have, so, you're obviously a bit of an "expert" yourself, aren't you? And there's absolutely no need to call me a fuckwit either ... I think everyone has an opinion ... they are after all like arseholes ( we all have one ) If someone asks mine I will give it. If someone asks for it to try to take a cheap shot? Of course I will probably respond When though the manager has picked the starting 11 I will put away my expertness and shout my bollocks off as per .
PS... see you wouldn't pick Allen as well .. as me you would also replace Batth--- with CVV ? and Butland with Federici ...
I applaud your expertness but will still leave it to Mr Jones
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 22, 2019 12:39:02 GMT
Forget tactics and team selection for a second, he's clearly failing at getting into their heads and giving them even the smallest semblance of confidence. Good managers can do that. I don’t think you understand football management
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Post by Stoke711 on Aug 22, 2019 12:42:21 GMT
Listen,can we just get behind the bloke... If pro footballers cant adapt to a system or shape then thats on THEM. 4 Managers now these shithouse players have got the sack and still its not them its the gaffer!! We need to stick with and support jones... Fuck these charalatan chancers,make it known we are with the manager. They will have nowhwere to hide then,we cannot keep sacking managers because of toss players who dont want to be here!! Keep the faith,rant over. This team hasnt been here for the last 4 managers. Out of the team yesterday only Allen, Butland and Edwards played in the premiership for us. So most of this side is down to the last 2 managers.
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Post by serpico on Aug 22, 2019 12:43:05 GMT
Butlands mistakes have cost us nearly half of the goals we’ve conceded so you can’t really blame that on jones.
First one against qpr First one against Charlton 2 last night that should have been routine saves
That’s 4 of the 10 all down to butland.
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Post by march4 on Aug 22, 2019 12:55:39 GMT
Butlands mistakes have cost us nearly half of the goals we’ve conceded so you can’t really blame that on jones. First one against qpr First one against Charlton 2 last night that should have been routine saves That’s 4 of the 10 all down to butland. 10 (ten). We’ve only played four games!!!!
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Post by skip on Aug 22, 2019 13:01:04 GMT
A different footballer manager would cost millions and be a huge risk. And we haven't the money nor the opportunity to replace the players. So it is down to the manager to look at the requisite strengths in the squad and play a formation and system to those strengths. That costs nothing but time. On to it Nathan!
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Post by nott1 on Aug 22, 2019 13:08:25 GMT
A different footballer manager would cost millions and be a huge risk. And we haven't the money nor the opportunity to replace the players. So it is down to the manager to look at the requisite strengths in the squad and play a formation and system to those strengths. That costs nothing but time. On to it Nathan! Jones is an even bigger risk!
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Post by ParaPsych on Aug 22, 2019 13:08:35 GMT
Forget tactics and team selection for a second, he's clearly failing at getting into their heads and giving them even the smallest semblance of confidence. Good managers can do that. I don’t think you understand football management Of course I don't, and neither do you. But it does appear that he is not doing a very good job of any one individual aspect right now, never mind everything as a whole.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 22, 2019 13:14:42 GMT
You can blame NJ for picking the team and subs and when they are made etc however you can't blame NJ for so called players giving it away. He has a squad of more than decent players but if a couple of them throw games away that's not his fault. How can any manager take blame for the first two goals last night? Without those two goals last night it would have been a different game but it happened and the players have to pay the price. No manager can play a system when his players give it up, Butland ruined his game last night and with QPR and Charlton. He is then chasing the game and making subs to try and rectify it. How about the players not fucking it up to start with give the bloke a chance. He's coaching and there are signs of it coming good BUT let's not kid ourselves in all the games so far we stated well only for a calamity to undo it all. With the main culprit being our keeper, yes fault is elsewhere too but the main issue is Butland he has played himself OUT of the side with his sheer incompetence. NJ imho has things on the right track with effort and desire but in only 10 of his side. I don't care about feelings or whatever Jack deserves all the shit and more if it's good enough and acceptable to slate and ridicule outfield players it's good enough for our shite keeper. His form is the worst of ALL of the players to take to the field by a fucking country mile. I don't care about excuses but Jack has cost us points in 3 games not alone but the major factor in those defeats. The manager keeps selecting him nobody is forcing him to !, Butland, Allen and Batth have been piss poor this season yet they keep getting the nod, these are the managers selections his decisions they are playing because of him therefore he has to take the blame. The players blatantly can not play the system he is trying to employ again many are his players that he deemed good enough to play the system again his fault.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 22, 2019 13:17:14 GMT
A different footballer manager would cost millions and be a huge risk. And we haven't the money nor the opportunity to replace the players. So it is down to the manager to look at the requisite strengths in the squad and play a formation and system to those strengths. That costs nothing but time. On to it Nathan! How much will it cost to be relegated to the third division ?
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Post by serpico on Aug 22, 2019 13:19:06 GMT
Was listening to talksport last night and the presenter described jones’ Luton side as a “winning machine” ... it’s bizarre how a manager can do so well at one club and then fail so badly at another, was he just lucky at Luton ?
He’s a very enthusiastic manager, talks well and is probably a good motivator and maybe that’s good enough in the lower leagues but not in the higher leagues ? You need more tactical nouse in the top two divisions, tactical nouse he might not possess?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 22, 2019 13:22:17 GMT
Quote from Jones "Since I've come here there's been a hangover of players wanting to leave, players thinking they are proper players, players wanting to go and play in Europe, players thinking of their international careers," added Jones, who replaced Gary Rowett in January. "There hasn't been a group here together who want to play and focus and win games for Stoke City, that's a problem. I thought we had made big strides in that, but evidently we haven't." I may be mistaken but he got rid of 3 players in the summer (Bojan, Adam and Pieters) who took great pleasure playing and winning games for Stoke City. He's currently got a fair few in his squad who thrive on playing for Stoke City (Collins, Verlinden, Edwards and Campbell) but are used sparingly. If this is his excuse then it's a problem he as partly created himself. 2 if those were useless and the other doesn't fit the system and was probably on hefty wages, it was the right thing to do, of the outs I don't think any have been wrong apart from there needs to be more gone.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 22, 2019 13:23:30 GMT
The players are taking the piss I agree, especially Joe Allen. Butland is having a stinker but he will now be judged on how he handles this situation. Id drop Allen and sell him for as cheap as possible at the next opportunity. I don’t think Allen is taking the piss, he’s trying his best it just isn’t working, I think his poor form is being amplified by the formation not working. When will he ever find good form, I'm yet to see it.
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