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Post by FrankButcher on Aug 22, 2019 17:00:22 GMT
Look at his interviews last night. He’s gone. Mentally shattered and exasperated. He won’t last the month out. When does a manager calling out his players end well? Never does end well, He could well end up on the end of a dressing room revolt with the players downing tools.
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Post by numberounominion on Aug 22, 2019 17:04:45 GMT
Lambo wasn't given enough time to turn it around, and save our season.
Even Coates admits that.
Whoever the new chap is, he has to be given more time than lambo
To answer your question, November at the latest.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 22, 2019 17:09:50 GMT
The thing is this discussion of the right time ignores the fact that the board are not very trigger happy, and usually wait far too long to do the dirty deed. On such basis, if we remain in the bottom three by Christmas, with no discernible improvement in our current inability to remotely look like keeping a clean sheet, then even Old Man Coates may act. Otherwise, Jones is here for the season at least, in all probability, provided we do not look odds on to get relegated.
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Post by questionable on Aug 22, 2019 17:26:41 GMT
Let’s put thinks into perspective here, we persisted with Hughes for far to long with disastrous consequences, should have been replaced with a manager with some credentials so we signed Lambert, friggin joke.
Rowett on paper was a solid appointment for this league but, err well.
Allegedly he walked only to be talked back into the job.
Then we have Jones 3/24 wins awfully bad football and tactically inept, massive areas of concern and the window closed in January.
How on earth can anyone want Jones to carry on with his pathetic blagging because he’s a nice guy maybe is beyond me.
Face facts he will relegate this club without doubt, without doubt one of the worst managerial appointments we've made in recent times
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 20:05:22 GMT
21:30 hours Thursday 22nd August 2019
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Post by mcw on Aug 22, 2019 20:27:44 GMT
Kind of forget last season we stayed up. We averaged 1.1 points per game. New season, many new players. We need 12 points from each set of 10 games to stay up. Keep an eye on how many points the team in 12th place have . We need 12 points from 10 matches. Less than 11 our board needs to think. COME ON OUR LADS. WE LIKE JONES. So we need 11 points from the next 6 games, I just can’t see that happening at all. That would require 3 wins, 2 draws and a loss or minimum 4 wins out of 6. Pie in the sky at the current trajectory😢
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 22, 2019 20:48:04 GMT
The season.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 23, 2019 8:13:33 GMT
The facts that the recent managers haven't had a bounce, not employed, and the likes of O'Neil and others turn us down, points the finger at the fact that it isn't just a manager issue at the club.
There is clearly an issue with recruitment but hopefully that has been addressed.
There are clearly issues with IT, catering, sales generally, the quality of stewarding, access and egress from the ground, etc. which indicate that the club is just poorly run generally.
Why is it when we give a player a new contract their form suffers? Apart from the present players, I remember Pieters's form went to pieces when he signed a new contract in Hughes day.
This all leads me to conclude we should be careful about sacking the manager just yet. We might have a very good manager that is in an impossible position. Let him have some more time to try and turn things round before we sack him, and find no one else except a Lambert will touch us.
We have played 5 matches, won one against Wigan's reserves, and played quite well in two, but suffered from silly errors and poor finishing. We need to see how at least the next 5 go, including some "must win" home matches, before pulling the trigger. I expect we will lose the next three matches, but then we must win some winnable home matches. Let's see how it goes.
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Post by femark on Aug 23, 2019 9:18:07 GMT
10 games at least.
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Post by Davef on Aug 23, 2019 9:59:35 GMT
If we fail to beat either Leeds or Birmingham that would be three wins in 26 games since NJ was appointed and, at the very best, 17 points on the board since he was appointed. You don't need to be a genius to work out what 17 points from 26 league games leads to. I doubt very much that the club would risk giving him until the end of October to turn things around.
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Post by thestatusquo on Aug 23, 2019 10:18:22 GMT
I was originally thinking end of October but with the Preston defeat together with the manner in which we lost has had me revise that estimate to a game by game basis
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 23, 2019 10:44:14 GMT
After the Preston defeat, do not be surprised that if we lose against Leeds and Brum that he's a gonner.
We made the mistake of giving someone too long before, let's not make it again, because we could look in an absolutely dreadful position should we lose the next two. Pray it clicks all of a sudden.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 23, 2019 10:57:09 GMT
I think we're broadly into the kind of territory where it could be one disastrous game away, however much they instinctively want to keep him. The Preston loss was a bit of a mood changer
I doubt defeat by itself in the Leeds game will precipitate anything, but an absolute hammering might.
A couple more disappointing performances and no wins from that game or the Birmingham game, and I think the chances are that'd be seen as the tipping point and he'd go in the first few days of the international break.
A convincing performance and win against Leeds or Birmingham will definitely buy him some time - and then anything could happen.
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Post by Davef on Aug 23, 2019 11:00:08 GMT
Lambo wasn't given enough time to turn it around, and save our season. Even Coates admits that. Whoever the new chap is, he has to be given more time than lambo To answer your question, November at the latest. I'm not quite sure I agree with Peter Coates on that. We weren't cut adrift when Lambert took over and we actually took the lead in six of the games we played under him, winning only once (his first game against Huddersfield). He had fifteen games and we were relegated by four points.
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Post by gingerninja on Aug 23, 2019 11:01:02 GMT
I am sure the club DO not want another managerial change any time soon, however, if we start to get set adrift in the coming weeks then their hand may be forced..I am not sure if they are Chris Hughton admirers but they may be wary he is still available at the moment & that we may be set to appoint his former head of recruitment at Brighton which would tie in nicely!!
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Post by stokienorthants on Aug 23, 2019 11:08:12 GMT
This guy is clearly out of his depth get rid now.
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Post by christhepotter on Aug 23, 2019 11:17:16 GMT
He’s already had enough time just look at his record , he’s bought his own players in and we still can’t defend , we don’t look organised and the players don’t fit his tactics , his subs are baffling and he talks a load of bollocks most the time , I’ve been going football 42 years , I know when a manager is completely out of his depth and Jones is , I don’t care what you happy clappers say we stick with Jones any longer and our season is over , keep him to long and we will be in a relegation battle
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Post by str8outtahampton on Aug 23, 2019 11:45:19 GMT
This guy is clearly out of his depth get rid now. Is that your personal opinion, Geoff? Or the majority/unanimous view of the Peruvian supporters' club? Here in Spain, the opinion is more nuanced. But on balance we do not think the club is close to pulling the trigger.
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Post by stokienorthants on Aug 23, 2019 13:43:21 GMT
This guy is clearly out of his depth get rid now. Is that your personal opinion, Geoff? Or the majority/unanimous view of the Peruvian supporters' club? Here in Spain, the opinion is more nuanced. But on balance we do not think the club is close to pulling the trigger. My opinion is merely one of literally thousands and counts for little but is worth as much as the next supporter. Football is very much a results business and with only 3 victories in c27 games he surely has to go. Hope you are enjoying yourself on the Costa Packet!
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Post by bagnallboothen on Aug 23, 2019 14:11:38 GMT
Lambo wasn't given enough time to turn it around, and save our season. Even Coates admits that. Whoever the new chap is, he has to be given more time than lambo To answer your question, November at the latest. Is this a joke? Paul Lambert was given 14 games too many.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 23, 2019 18:40:52 GMT
If he's not part of the solution then he's part of the problem.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Aug 23, 2019 18:48:25 GMT
If we win tomorrow then he’ll obviously buy more time and deservedly so but a gutless tonking will unfortunately signal the death knell......as far as I am concerned...
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Post by str8outtahampton on Sept 23, 2019 8:43:09 GMT
Is that your personal opinion, Geoff? Or the majority/unanimous view of the Peruvian supporters' club? Here in Spain, the opinion is more nuanced. But on balance we do not think the club is close to pulling the trigger. My opinion is merely one of literally thousands and counts for little but is worth as much as the next supporter. Football is very much a results business and with only 3 victories in c27 games he surely has to go. Hope you are enjoying yourself on the Costa Packet! After Saturday, Geoff, the Languedoc Roussillon branch of the supporters' club voted unanimously to second the motion of their Peruvian counterparts. The performance had relegation written all over it, I am afraid.
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Post by Gods on Sept 23, 2019 8:51:52 GMT
Definitely not as and until we have someone decent lined up which was the issue with the Hughes and the Rowett sackings. I do believe we had someone we thought would be good when we signed Rowett, you could see why we did at least and we pondered it over a summer. It's the sackings and appointments in haste that trouble me.
I imagine the challenge right now is if we want to get a name with a reputation would they accept they can't have yet another team all of their own and the role is essentially to get a tune out of what we have?
FFP and the fact that we still can't shift some of Hughes more far fetched signings, the mad cap signings from Rowett's summer splurge and I would suggest the entirety of the drug addled business we carried out in the summer just gone :-)
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 23, 2019 9:21:06 GMT
Definitely not as and until we have someone decent lined up which was the issue with the Hughes and the Rowett sackings. I do believe we had someone we thought would be good when we signed Rowett, you could see why we did at least and we pondered it over a summer. It's the sackings and appointments in haste that trouble me. I imagine the challenge right now is if we want to get a name with a reputation would they accept they can't have yet another team all of their own and the role is essentially to get a tune out of what we have? FFP and the fact that we still can't shift some of Hughes more far fetched signings, the signings from Rowett's summer splurge and I would suggest all of the drug addled business we carried out in the summer just gone :-) The only two I can honestly trust to get a tune from them would be Alex Neill and Hughton. I still don't think Neill would take it, and I still think we're left in the initial pool of two of Hughton and Tony, Hughton being the by far and away the standout candidate.
The problem with sacking Jones now is that we have got to rely on Hughton wanting it really. If he doesn't, then who do we look at?
Tony, nope, burnt bridges but Coates will have that speed dial button on standby for the all else fails option Moyes, won't happen, probably still fancies himself a prem job Allardyce, if the interest in going Sunderland is true, we could potentially be of interest but again he's one that would divide the fan base Neill, good thing going on at Preston, will he want to get rid of that? McCarthy has got the ROI job O'Neill will no doubt be on the shortlist Carvahal, supposed interest in January Monk's gone to Shef Weds Cowley's gone to Huddersfield McInnes done a decent rep rebuild at Aberdeen,
Steve Clarke has the Scotland job
It's not looking all too rosey sadly.
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Post by Gods on Sept 23, 2019 9:41:04 GMT
Definitely not as and until we have someone decent lined up which was the issue with the Hughes and the Rowett sackings. I do believe we had someone we thought would be good when we signed Rowett, you could see why we did at least and we pondered it over a summer. It's the sackings and appointments in haste that trouble me. I imagine the challenge right now is if we want to get a name with a reputation would they accept they can't have yet another team all of their own and the role is essentially to get a tune out of what we have? FFP and the fact that we still can't shift some of Hughes more far fetched signings, the signings from Rowett's summer splurge and I would suggest all of the drug addled business we carried out in the summer just gone :-) The only two I can honestly trust to get a tune from them would be Alex Neill and Hughton. I still don't think Neill would take it, and I still think we're left in the initial pool of two of Hughton and Tony, Hughton being the by far and away the standout candidate. The problem with sacking Jones now is that we have got to rely on Hughton wanting it really. If he doesn't, then who do we look at? Tony, nope, burnt bridges but Coates will have that speed dial button on standby for the all else fails option Moyes, won't happen, probably still fancies himself a prem job Allardyce, if the interest in going Sunderland is true, we could potentially be of interest but again he's one that would divide the fan base Neill, good thing going on at Preston, will he want to get rid of that? McCarthy has got the ROI job O'Neill will no doubt be on the shortlist Carvahal, supposed interest in January Monk's gone to Shef Weds Cowley's gone to Huddersfield McInnes done a decent rep rebuild at Aberdeen,
Steve Clarke has the Scotland job It's not looking all too rosey sadly.
I agree with most of that and we can't have TP, I'm among his biggest fans but we'd just be playing Brexit out every day, as folks got entrenched in their respective camps. It would just sap everyone's energy.
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Post by lordb on Sept 23, 2019 10:04:16 GMT
Best time to sack a manager is Monday after last game of season. E.g. we lost 4.1 at home to Arsenal. Should have been "thanks Mr Hughes for the great stuff before but it's time to move on"
To be fair we did this with Pulis and Lambert.
Any other time reeks of panic which creates it's own problems even if it's still the right thing to do (sacking mid season).
If t have to do it mid season then the Autumn international breaks make sense.
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Post by lordb on Sept 23, 2019 10:05:37 GMT
The only two I can honestly trust to get a tune from them would be Alex Neill and Hughton. I still don't think Neill would take it, and I still think we're left in the initial pool of two of Hughton and Tony, Hughton being the by far and away the standout candidate. The problem with sacking Jones now is that we have got to rely on Hughton wanting it really. If he doesn't, then who do we look at? Tony, nope, burnt bridges but Coates will have that speed dial button on standby for the all else fails option Moyes, won't happen, probably still fancies himself a prem job Allardyce, if the interest in going Sunderland is true, we could potentially be of interest but again he's one that would divide the fan base Neill, good thing going on at Preston, will he want to get rid of that? McCarthy has got the ROI job O'Neill will no doubt be on the shortlist Carvahal, supposed interest in January Monk's gone to Shef Weds Cowley's gone to Huddersfield McInnes done a decent rep rebuild at Aberdeen,
Steve Clarke has the Scotland job It's not looking all too rosey sadly.
I agree with most of that and we can't have TP, I'm among his biggest fans but we'd just be playing Brexit out every day, and folks got entrenched in their respective camps. It would just sap everyone's energy. If Hughton doesn't want it then we may as well stick. However confident he would take the job.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 23, 2019 10:08:21 GMT
It seems patently clear to me that the club is prepared to give Jones every opportunity to give him as much time as he needs to turn things round. I believe they have no appetite for another major upheaval changing all the staff along with the manager. I also think they know they have to purge out all the unwanted players and players who want to leave and eventually get to a point where all the staff want to be at the club and feel needed. Change manager and another man comes in who wants his own players, so the process is perpetuated for a decade like Leeds Utd. I believe Jones accepted that to move up to Stoke he had to accept what he got in terms of players, but didn't realise it was so difficult. Unlike Rowett he takes the responsibility and keeps trying different things to find a successful formula. The last game was all about avoiding conceding 2 goals as we have done every match. I'm convinced the Board will give him till at least the next international break, whatever the results, barring a 4-0 drubbing by Huddersfield! If results don't improve then I expect the Coates will sit down with Jones and talk till they mutually agree that it is in the best interest of all concerned to part company, similar to Pulis, but I think we are still some time away from that.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 23, 2019 10:16:52 GMT
I agree with most of that and we can't have TP, I'm among his biggest fans but we'd just be playing Brexit out every day, and folks got entrenched in their respective camps. It would just sap everyone's energy. If Hughton doesn't want it then we may as well stick. However confident he would take the job. I'm sure all ex Premier League managers will sit tight and wait for the next club in the top flight that is in trouble and wants a new manager to save them from the drop. Why on earth should they pass on those opportunities that come up as the season progresses and take on a mess of a club at the bottom of the Championship? There were managers passing up the chance to move to Stoke when Hughes was sacked, including Rowett at Derby, so why should we be attractive to anyone now? The only managers who would jump at the chance are lower league managers who want to move up the ladder and we got the best of those in Jones.
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