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Post by tony1234 on Aug 21, 2019 23:45:30 GMT
I like Jack but we should have taken 20m when we first came down. Or 15m to Villa this last window with a player coming to us perhaps.
Mistakes come for all sorts of reasons. One is simply not being motivated. If i was to hazard a guess, he has seen and heard enough to believe there is no chance of this team under NJ doing anything but struggle. He doesn't want to be here. Maybe he wants to care, but in the moment, he just isn't focussed, primed, mentally razor sharp etc, because he has detatched himself from what's going on. Depending on your take, that's shameful, or just human nature. In those psychology experiments, where a dog is constantly denied its food, it eventually lies down and gives up. If someone is motivated to do something (e.g. be the best he can) but is constantly thwarted, perhaps he does too (figuratively).
He should have gone, and we should have reinvested for everyone's sakes.
Being overtly singled out by Jones however is really poor management. Its bad psychology for Butland (https://believeperform.com/whuy-mitsakes-are-birllaint/). It also portrays a man out of control of his team's performance.
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Post by xxstokiestanxx on Aug 21, 2019 23:53:13 GMT
I’m not suggesting that for a second. My point is only that he clearly needs some help. I totally get that he would prefer not to be here but I do believe he does care about this club. He’s not one of the ones that has never cared. My feeling is this is actually a lot harder to deal with than he realised. I was as annoyed as the next person as I said tonight with him but I wasn’t half as angry as I was listening to that interview. Which IMO will only make the media circus and the situation worse. If he came out and said that about Joe Allen you would be over the moon, just something else to moan about the manager for you, he should of subbed him after the second goal never mind drop him for the next game its what he deserved and Jack Butland knows himself he needs dropping after that performance on top of how crap he has been so far this season. |
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Post by sutekh on Aug 22, 2019 0:04:08 GMT
I heard that jack was so distraught after the game that he attempted to throw himself under the team coach but the coach went underneath him
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 5:07:19 GMT
My point is only that he clearly needs some help. I totally get that he would prefer not to be here but I do believe he does care about this club. He’s not one of the ones that has never cared. My feeling is this is actually a lot harder to deal with than he realised. I was as annoyed as the next person as I said tonight with him but I wasn’t half as angry as I was listening to that interview. Which IMO will only make the media circus and the situation worse. If he came out and said that about Joe Allen you would be over the moon, just something else to moan about the manager for you, he should of subbed him after the second goal never mind drop him for the next game its what he deserved and Jack Butland knows himself he needs dropping after that performance on top of how crap he has been so far this season. No I wouldn’t. Clearly you’ve read fuck all of my posts as you’d know and I’m not on the Allen bashing bandwagon and so your post makes no sense. Just fuck off and stop making assumptions. Sky Sports headline last night: Jones “May drop Butland”. Quoting our own manager saying that. It’s rookie. Yes he needs dropping but did he need to announce it on sky Sports - no. |
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 22, 2019 5:15:12 GMT
I heard that jack was so distraught after the game that he attempted to throw himself under the team coach but the coach went underneath him Are you on all week 😎 |
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Post by wherty on Aug 22, 2019 6:19:45 GMT
Did anybody try to console Jack, or gee him up, after the howlers tonight? I only saw Tom E. On Saturday, after the great save near the end, how many players mobbed him for saving the game? Must just be a one off, we scout these guys 25 times, didn't you know??? If you read the original post regarding the so called "scouting them 25 times" as you put it then you will realise you've just made a plonker of yourself. |
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Post by berahinosgoals on Aug 22, 2019 6:33:45 GMT
Did anybody try to console Jack, or gee him up, after the howlers tonight? I only saw Tom E. On Saturday, after the great save near the end, how many players mobbed him for saving the game? Console him? Seriously? They must be right pissed off with him he's a standing joke. Hes letting his team mates down, his manager down, chairman down and fans down, A total myth of an England keeper. A keeper that has let so many shots go past him in the last few years we are bottom of division 2. He can' kick, he cant organise his defence, he can't save pennos & now run of the mill shots that should be his bread & butter go straight through him, literally. Fuck him off, joke of a keeper. How much longer has he got to be bag of shit for before people wake up to the fact he is actually.... er.... shit? |
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Post by Pedropotter on Aug 22, 2019 6:39:37 GMT
He's generally a half decent keeper with a world class demeanour. He swans about like billy big bollocks and some folk believe the hype. The truth is another matter....
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Post by citynickscfc on Aug 22, 2019 6:42:41 GMT
Must just be a one off, we scout these guys 25 times, didn't you know??? If you read the original post regarding the so called "scouting them 25 times" as you put it then you will realise you've just made a plonker of yourself. I'm not sure how, as I heard the comments myself on the radio regarding new signings and yet here we are with a team of new signings who a) don't fit the system we play and b) obviously - are new signings. Yet their DNA or certain qualities (i.e. the ability to play football) are somewhat lacking? Jack was hung out to dry. He's saved us many times, but his head isn't in it right now, yet we have a team of outfield players whom fail to support each other and clearly aren't in it for the manager. As I said, we obviously scouted then 25 times....erghermmmmmmmm |
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Post by redstriper on Aug 22, 2019 6:43:37 GMT
The usual hysterical, abusive shit on the oatcake, sometimes i wonder why a bother reading.
Jack Butland is a decent individual, a professional, and a player who has overall been a credit to the club. When things go wrong, goalkeepers have no hiding place, (unlike some of other players who hid last night).
He will be gutted but will face up to his mistakes and come out stronger. He should (and will) be supported by those who have the clubs best interests at heart.
Whereas some of the posters on here are clearly only interested in their online personas.
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Post by scfcwebby on Aug 22, 2019 6:48:11 GMT
Have a word with yourself. Butland is no different to any other professional. He loves himself and nobody else. He changed agents last year to the same agent Rooney had years ago. He did that for one reason and one reason only and it's blown up in his face. I'd put a lot of money on that being a big part in his performances now. He’s been a liability for 3 years now. Im sorry, but that is utter bollocks |
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Post by nott1 on Aug 22, 2019 6:52:03 GMT
He’s been a liability for 3 years now. Im sorry, but that is utter bollocks He certainly is now! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 22, 2019 6:54:40 GMT
He’s been a liability for 3 years now. Im sorry, but that is utter bollocks It’s not though. He was one of the biggest reasons we went down. There were lots of reasons but him letting soft goals in killed us. |
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Post by stroller on Aug 22, 2019 6:58:15 GMT
I heard that jack was so distraught after the game that he attempted to throw himself under the team coach but the coach went underneath him Beano 1956 ? |
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Aug 22, 2019 7:09:12 GMT
We've been on the decline for 3 seasons or so, ever presents through this time have been Jack an Joe, maybe tough decisions need to be made very quickly over these 2 and their automatic place in the team.
Other players who need to buck up and gain consistency from game to game are Batth, Clucas, Woods and Ince.
Worried about Batth - let go by pulis at boro he doesn't let good defenders go!!
Woods and Clucas good one game poor the next have to gain consistency.
Ince tries hard but 9 out of 10 shots sail over the crossbar time to change the player in this tip of diamond role if NJ insists on playing it.
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Post by wrighter on Aug 22, 2019 7:10:23 GMT
Wonder if NJ will have the bottle to drop Jack on Saturday, and give Davis a go ?
Jack"s confidence is shot
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Post by baltipiesmuggler on Aug 22, 2019 7:11:20 GMT
His heads utterly gone. Seems he just assumed he would get his move this window and it never happened.
Just praying to god our back ups can do a job.
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Post by mattface on Aug 22, 2019 7:28:41 GMT
Wonder if NJ will have the bottle to drop Jack on Saturday, and give Davis a go ? Jack"s confidence is shot Think it's more about good management. He doesn't seem to have the confidence he used to have and for his own sake needs to be taken out of the spotlight. Individual errors are giving us mountains to climb. He wasn't the only reason we gave away soft goals last night. It's just easy to point the finger at his part in them. More should have been done by the outfield players to stop / block the shots |
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Post by scfcwebby on Aug 22, 2019 9:17:18 GMT
Im sorry, but that is utter bollocks He certainly is now! Yes he is now, but to say he has been a liability for 3 years is ridiculous |
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Post by scfcwebby on Aug 22, 2019 9:18:27 GMT
Im sorry, but that is utter bollocks It’s not though. He was one of the biggest reasons we went down. There were lots of reasons but him letting soft goals in killed us. There were far more times that he saved us points rather than lost them |
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Post by citynickscfc on Aug 22, 2019 10:38:54 GMT
It’s not though. He was one of the biggest reasons we went down. There were lots of reasons but him letting soft goals in killed us. There were far more times that he saved us points rather than lost them He really wasn't the reason we went down. I'd argue our success was mostly down to him and he won the accolades and rightly so. His head isn't in it at the moment, it happens, his confidence is rock bottom. Someone probably told him before the game that he had no offers from anyone higher up or abroad and he's going to be dropped from England. How would you feel? Honestly, he just needs time to sort his head. Luckily we have other quality keepers, don't we????? Anyone?????? Ergh, recruitment again |
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Post by OldStokie on Aug 22, 2019 11:21:01 GMT
Jack's problems began with his ankle injury when he was playing for England. He's never been the player he was before that injury. Even so, what we're seeing now is way beyond worse than he was immediately after the injury. For whatever reason/s, he's lost most of his confidence and his head is on wrong. A good 'keeper has to be much like a boxer - have amazing reflexes and agility. The first two goals he let in last night were appalling, but he literally watched the ball go past him for the 3rd goal without any reaction whatsoever. De Gea would have pounced on that, no problem.
For his own sake (and ours) he needs dropping and booked in to see a top class sports psychologist and he shouldn't come back until he's in tip-top shape and his head is straight again. As any top class sportsperson will tell you, if you're not right mentally then that's just as bad as a physical injury.
My grandson's Long-jump coach is Ben Williams from Stoke who recently jumped 17.14 metres to win the Triple-jump at the three day European event and qualified for the World Championships and the Tokyo Olympics with that jump. Two years ago he had a horrific injury that could have ended his career. During the last two years he's had an operation and worked his bollox off to get back to fitness and become the same athlete he was when he became the World Junior Triple-jump Champion. During his rehabilitation he's had to see a sports psychologist to keep him going. The reason I've mentioned this is because I see a striking resenblance to what has happened to Jack as has happened to Ben.
Let's hope he gets back to being the top class keeper he once was.
OS.
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Post by numberounominion on Aug 22, 2019 11:48:47 GMT
I am not that interested in Butland's state of mind
I am more interested in the way the club is being run.
He is not as good a keeper as lee grant, so why is he here?
Lee Grant, came in and was comprehensively a better keeper than Butland. He didn't let every single corner kick come flying across his six yard box, to be headed in by whoever. He didn't dive the wrong way, for every single penalty kick. And he was terrific at shot stopping and one on ones.
In fact, when he was on it, eg away to Man utd, he was awesome. He was more assured and better at communicating with his defence than Butland.
He was just quite simply, a better keeper.
What sort of club, sells there best keeper for pennies, and keeps the wrong Un.
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 22, 2019 12:27:54 GMT
Ok here it goes Butland has not been dropped by England because he plays for Stoke or because of the formation or because of NJ he's been dropped on form. And if he's honest it's spot on he should be dropped,if he really expected to be picked for his country with his current form he's deluded.
So it's hardly a shock to him if that is indeed the case and he is dropped from the squad he has done nothing to warrant being picked.
His self worth as far as England goes is funny if he believes he should be picked.
His first words last night should have been sorry lads, sorry gaffer and second don't pick me pick me for the second half of the game I'm not worthy of a place anything else and he's kiding himself.
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Post by NassauDave on Aug 22, 2019 18:24:54 GMT
Jack is a big part of the reason why Jones will shortly lose his job.
Jones can see it and has vented accordingly.
The journey back to Stoke on the team bus must have been a delight.
I am so sick of the shambles that my Club has become.
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Post by Miles Offside on Aug 22, 2019 19:07:28 GMT
Jack needs to find his focus and he'll be alright.
As for team mates, they don't look or have the feel of a team at present - and that's something for the manager to sort out.
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Post by sutekh on Aug 22, 2019 19:50:40 GMT
I heard that jack was so distraught after the game that he attempted to throw himself under the team coach but the coach went underneath him Beano 1956 ? Snigger snigger,guffaw guffaw,chortle chortle. |
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Aug 22, 2019 19:52:25 GMT
He looked a sad bloke walking round the pitch with Andy Quy after the game Should have seen me in the car on the way home. |
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Post by ursemboys on Aug 22, 2019 19:59:35 GMT
Something is clearly very wrong with him and he needs some help (whilst being dropped). I was as furious as anyone else tonight but I don’t believe he doesn’t love this club and that it’s really a case of him not trying. And then for Jones to come out and announce on national tv that he’s basically going to drop him was appalling man management IMO. There’s honesty and then there’s being a complete and utter embarrassment. Give over JACK wants out. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 20:01:57 GMT
Something is clearly very wrong with him and he needs some help (whilst being dropped). I was as furious as anyone else tonight but I don’t believe he doesn’t love this club and that it’s really a case of him not trying. And then for Jones to come out and announce on national tv that he’s basically going to drop him was appalling man management IMO. There’s honesty and then there’s being a complete and utter embarrassment. Give over JACK wants out. If he wanted out that badly to perform like this on purpose he would have forced a move. Not turned up for preseason. Refused to play. Of course in an ideal world he wouldn’t be here but he’s not doing this on purpose is my point. |
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