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Post by podolipotter on Aug 22, 2019 9:07:18 GMT
Goalkeeper, (one who has some decent form) A left and a Right back who should both be solid (Edwards did very well last night) Two half backs and a centre half splitting them, and, most important of all, Five forwards. Goals win games chaps, and this so-called diamond is a complete lacklustre fools gold. Get rid now.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Aug 22, 2019 9:08:34 GMT
Goalkeeper, (one who has some decent form) A left and a Right back who should both be solid (Edwards did very well last night) Two half backs and a centre half splitting them, and, most important of all, Five forwards. Goals win games chaps, and this so-called diamond is a complete lacklustre fools gold. Get rid now. Two half backs and a centre half? You had me until that tosh...
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Post by mickstupp on Aug 22, 2019 9:09:26 GMT
Goalkeeper, (one who has some decent form) A left and a Right back who should both be solid (Edwards did very well last night) Two half backs and a centre half splitting them, and, most important of all, Five forwards. Goals win games chaps, and this so-called diamond is a complete lacklustre fools gold. Get rid now. . You’re mental
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Post by george2again on Aug 22, 2019 9:19:43 GMT
If you get rid of the diamond , Jones has to go becaue he is the diamond. I well up for that. Seriously he swap system because it will show what a wek manager he is. We don't have the players for the diamond and he will pay with his job very soon.
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Post by george2again on Aug 22, 2019 9:20:39 GMT
If you get rid of the diamond , Jones has to go becaue he is the diamond. I would be well up for that. Seriously if he swaps system because it will show what a weak manager he is. We don't have the players for the diamond and he will pay with his job very soon.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 22, 2019 9:25:42 GMT
The Wigan formation was exceptionally balanced and give us great solidity at the back. It also retains some of the themes we'll have been training with all summer. It would also let Mark Duffy do what Mark Duffy does, going 4-4-2 would be completely unsuitable for our squad.
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Post by Northy on Aug 22, 2019 9:27:56 GMT
Play with a disciplined back four, with proper full-backs. Wing-backs are neither wingers nor full-backs. Play a solid midfield four with wide men who can carry the ball forward. It won't solve all your (mostly self-imposed) problems, but it'd be a good start. We don't have a left back. We don't have wide men. Other than that, great post. Ward, Ince and McClean ? Add in verlinden as well ?
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 22, 2019 9:28:09 GMT
The formation means fuck all if players are going to perform as they did last night. You can say all you like about the formation, If you play like we did last night then you will lose every game you play no matter then formation or tactics.
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Post by burberrybassist on Aug 22, 2019 9:33:52 GMT
It just infuriates me how this entire message board could see the gaping holes in our squad throughout the off season, but as per usual it takes the club 6 months or more to catch up on what everyone else already knows.
We have a manager who wanted to buy into a formation, but a squad more comfortable playing another formation. So what do we do? Buy a weird mixture of players that leaves us short no matter how we now want to play. We have proved we don't have the squad to play the diamond, but when we change it up we then have massive gaps in other areas on the field.
We just look lost, both on the pitch and off it.
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Post by podolipotter on Aug 22, 2019 10:36:54 GMT
Goalkeeper, (one who has some decent form) A left and a Right back who should both be solid (Edwards did very well last night) Two half backs and a centre half splitting them, and, most important of all, Five forwards. Goals win games chaps, and this so-called diamond is a complete lacklustre fools gold. Get rid now. . You’re mental Clearly, you are mixed up!
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Aug 22, 2019 13:58:43 GMT
Criminal that young Verlinden has been overlooked so far. Such a talented young player just wasting away. Agreed,I expected it to be quite a tough season,with us finishing somewhere from 10th to 15th,but with a degree of solace being provided by the real emergence of the likes of Verlinden and Collins as genuine first team options and Edwards benefitting from his experiences last season to really push on. Not looking good on either count hitherto.
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Post by serpico on Aug 22, 2019 14:55:06 GMT
Any squad of players should be capable of playing in a 442 formation, it’s not complicated, is it ? it’s the simpelest of all the formations to play in, everyone knows what they’re supposed to do where theyre supposed to be.
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Post by 'i'mnaked' on Aug 22, 2019 15:06:26 GMT
The Wigan formation was exceptionally balanced and give us great solidity at the back. It also retains some of the themes we'll have been training with all summer. It would also let Mark Duffy do what Mark Duffy does, going 4-4-2 would be completely unsuitable for our squad. You're right. That was the Rhombus formation.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 15:07:41 GMT
The Wigan formation was exceptionally balanced and give us great solidity at the back. It also retains some of the themes we'll have been training with all summer. It would also let Mark Duffy do what Mark Duffy does, going 4-4-2 would be completely unsuitable for our squad. You're right. That was the Rhombus formation. It was a Kite.
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Post by numberounominion on Aug 22, 2019 15:12:08 GMT
We do if Badou is made to actually work for his wages......a novel idea, I know. For now we must stop the bleeding, find a way not to concede 2 or 3 goals every game. Whether that is 3 CBs, two holders, whatever, just get it done and give us a base to build on. I'd get rid of Jones' effing diamond and play this XI on Saturday: Davies Collins, Carter Vickers, Lindsay Edwards, Woods, Badou, Etebo, Clucas Powell Gregory We looked shocking there with three centre backs. Everyone just standing arou d doing nothing. I'm afraid Jones has done what Rowett did, and not signed players that fit what he wants to do. It looks a mess. you are right ! But it's worse than that !!
NJ has got a win percentage , that makes Gary Rowett look like Pep Gaurdiola
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Post by Block 22 on Aug 22, 2019 15:41:14 GMT
All this bollocks about the formation is laughable.
If your defenders are behaving like clowns, your goalkeeper can’t catch a cold and your strikers can’t hit the sea if they fall out of water then it doesn’t matter what your formation is or who the manager is for that matter.
We have conceded amongst the least clear cut chances in the league, created amongst the most. Let’s stifle that completely by changing formation yet again when it’s not necessary.
Until we learn to be better in both boxes. We will continue to lose and draw football matches. We could play 10 strikers and not score and play 10 defenders and concede for fun at the moment. It’s nothing to do with the formation FFS!
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 22, 2019 17:04:53 GMT
Play with a disciplined back four, with proper full-backs. Wing-backs are neither wingers nor full-backs. Play a solid midfield four with wide men who can carry the ball forward. It won't solve all your (mostly self-imposed) problems, but it'd be a good start. I couldn't agree more, f--- the diamond! I think we even are better with 3 centre backs than with the diamond system. How long will it take before NJ scraps the shit diamond? Since we started trying out this shit system we have hardly won games at all, I really don't believe in it, especially with the players we have on our books! Please show some common sense, NJ!
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 22, 2019 17:09:45 GMT
You can't play 442 these days, too many teams overload the midfield so we'd be dominated in the middle.
4231 is a good formation but as we've seen in the past it leaves the striker isolated.
352 gives a bit of everything but you have to have wide players who can get up and down, attack, cross and defend, have we got them?
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Post by stroller on Aug 22, 2019 17:10:11 GMT
You're right. That was the Rhombus formation. It was a Kite. It certainly put the wind up me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 17:13:26 GMT
I agree 442 no goalie ... oh wait ...we’re already doing that bit !! I think, given our current plight, we have a valid case with the FA to play rush goalie.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 22, 2019 17:17:49 GMT
The Wigan formation was exceptionally balanced and give us great solidity at the back. It also retains some of the themes we'll have been training with all summer. It would also let Mark Duffy do what Mark Duffy does, going 4-4-2 would be completely unsuitable for our squad. Agreed - okay it was Wigan's reserves, but that 5311 does seem to play to our strengths. We can perm 3 from our 4 CBs (and the youngsters do seem fairly comfortable on the ball), Edwards and McClean are ideal wing backs (with Smith and Clucas as back up), we can bolster the middle of the park where we have lost control and allowed acres of space too often so far this season, we have Duffy, Ince and Powell to play the "1" in the hole, and Vokes who can play the target man or Gregory the mobile workhorse up front. Keeper 3 of Collins/CCV/Batth/LIndsay Edwards Allen Woods Etebo McClean 1 of Duffy/Ince/Powell 1 of Vokes/Gregory
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Post by Block 22 on Aug 23, 2019 10:07:28 GMT
If you are ignorant enough to ignore all of the significant positive stats that have come from playing the Diamond. If you cannot see that comedy defending and terrible finishing has cost us games then you need to follow another sport.
In a logical world (not the Oatcake) it really does not matter which formation you play if you cannot score from 6 yards or defend simple balls forward, in terms of creating and conceding chances, which if you didn’t know is more often than not how games are won, create more chances than you allow the opposition.
We need to be more clinical in front of goal and stop making stupid and easily preventable errors at the back. Changing formation will not convert our easy chances, if anything we will create less. It won’t stop Butland from dropping howlers.
Changing formation is not the answer. We all know the results haven’t been good enough but the formation hasn’t been the failure.
You don’t change the engine in your car if your tyres are punctured do you?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 10:08:59 GMT
If you are ignorant enough to ignore all of the significant positive stats that have come from playing the Diamond. If you cannot see that comedy defending and terrible finishing has cost us games then you need to follow another sport. In a logical world (not the Oatcake) it really does not matter which formation you play if you cannot score from 6 yards or defend simple balls forward, in terms of creating and conceding chances, which if you didn’t know is more often than not how games are won, create more chances than you allow the opposition. We need to be more clinical in front of goal and stop making stupid and easily preventable errors at the back. Changing formation will not convert our easy chances, if anything we will create less. It won’t stop Butland from dropping howlers. Changing formation is not the answer. We all know the results haven’t been good enough but the formation hasn’t been the failure. You don’t change the engine in your car if your tyres are punctured do you? No but nor do you put bicycle tyres on the car and wonder why they are punctured...
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Post by thefarpost on Aug 23, 2019 10:12:08 GMT
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Post by noustie on Aug 23, 2019 10:35:00 GMT
The formation is an abomination – it is too easy to mark the tip of the diamond out of the game and as we haven’t got Pirlo at the base of it we end up with square balls to full backs that expose us when they lose it (obviously targeted v Preston) or it goes back to the centre backs to pump it up front.
We played well with this formation v Charlton and Derby and still managed to concede 5 goals. Blaming the players is only half the issue – pause the Preston game any time we’re out of position and we have absolutely zero structure whatsoever. One time, even when we did get back in some semblance of order, three PNE players ran through the gap between Allen and Clucas and all three had an ocean of space before hitting the back line.
The stats for the game are relatively similar so PNE didn’t even play that well and still pissed all over us:
Shots 8 each Possession 49/51 Passes 418/420
The only real difference is they fouled us 16 times and we only committed 6! Either we’re a complete bunch of fannies or we couldn’t get close enough to them to put a tackle in.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 23, 2019 10:39:58 GMT
If you get rid of the diamond , Jones has to go becaue he is the diamond. I well up for that. Seriously he swap system because it will show what a wek manager he is. We don't have the players for the diamond and he will pay with his job very soon. I agree he will pay with his job if the diamond doesn't work (either 4D2 or 5D1 - which personally I prefer). However I still think it could come off if the players play to their potential - some clearly aren't at the moment. I also agree changing to 442 would be ridiculous. Why would any manager adopt a system they don't believe in? If he did go 442 he'll have lost confidence in himself and he definitely should go. If he loses respect for his own principles he would lose everyone's respect and would have no credibility.
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Post by stokief on Aug 23, 2019 10:49:51 GMT
I am absolutely, utterly convinced that we can turn this around BUT three things have to happen. Jack has to be 'rested' and helped off field with his head space. Joe Allen has to go off on a golf holiday or something and Nathan HAS to drop his preferred tactics at least whilst we steady the sinking ship. I still think that Nath can do it. I believe that although we may have some plodders and dodderers we also have some lads with plenty of heart and passion for the game and a good sprinkling of talented and enthusiastic youth. It's just getting us back on course, getting the right blend and that means heart to hearts for them all and playing the players we have in the way they feel most able and comfortable. We need consistency in the tactics and the selection. As hard as it is for us, we have to get over where we are and just support the manager and players or else this lot will feel the heat and start running scared and the talented ones will want out. So, as the title of this thread began, Dear Nathan, Don't be afraid to change tactics as I truely believe it will make a huge difference. Nobody will think less of you. We as mere humans cant get it right all of the time and every situation we deal with is different and may need a different approach. Dogged determination to plough on if something clearly isn't working is foolhardy. Fans are fickle. Turn this around and the bad times will be forgotten in the mists of time. We HAVE players with heart so let them play the way they know. Confidence will return, results will come. You'll be able to take those plasters off your fingernails, that is unless you're a classical guitarist of course!
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Post by 11wilkosinateam on Aug 23, 2019 11:03:34 GMT
either
4-4-2
Davies
Edwards Collins CCV Ward
Ince Etebo Woods McClean
Hogan Gregory
or a 4-2-3-1
Davies
Edwards Collins CCV Ward
Etebo Woods
Ince Duffy Verlinden
Gregory
or 3-4-1-2
Davies
CCV Collins Lindsay
Edwards Etebo Woods McClean
Duffy
Hogan Gregory
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Post by dreamtheater on Aug 23, 2019 11:13:04 GMT
Another dogshit thread about formations
and statistics
and diamonds
and -how they are different from 4.4.2 if you play the 'diamond'
just play a simple 4.4.2, where players actually know where they are supposed to be on the blinking pitch
both going forwards and in reverse
and we might actually get somewhere
Weve currently got dullard lumbering championship players - without much raw talent anyways, being coached to try to play like Brazil or Real Madrid or Bayern Munich or even Manchester City.
SIMPLE OUTCOME = THEY CANT
AND
Sometimes players who are right footed playing on the left and, vice versa ( another modern sophistication thats seems good but basically means such players cannot really function doing their primary job
even more dogshit .
Its SIMPLE game ------ again !
Ps goalkeepers who cant stop simple routine shots fired pretty much straight at them -- does not help either mind.
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Post by Block 22 on Aug 23, 2019 11:48:49 GMT
If you are ignorant enough to ignore all of the significant positive stats that have come from playing the Diamond. If you cannot see that comedy defending and terrible finishing has cost us games then you need to follow another sport. In a logical world (not the Oatcake) it really does not matter which formation you play if you cannot score from 6 yards or defend simple balls forward, in terms of creating and conceding chances, which if you didn’t know is more often than not how games are won, create more chances than you allow the opposition. We need to be more clinical in front of goal and stop making stupid and easily preventable errors at the back. Changing formation will not convert our easy chances, if anything we will create less. It won’t stop Butland from dropping howlers. Changing formation is not the answer. We all know the results haven’t been good enough but the formation hasn’t been the failure. You don’t change the engine in your car if your tyres are punctured do you? No but nor do you put bicycle tyres on the car and wonder why they are punctured... Do you have a reasoned debate and put your point across about “how the formation” has cost us results this season? Or, how exactly the formation isn’t working? Looking at results is a very, very short sighted reasoning when you take the full context into account.
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