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Post by str8outtahampton on Sept 11, 2019 13:23:17 GMT
The absolute ignorance displayed on a daily basis on this board is astonishing. I'm astonished that you're astonished as my own knowledge on footballing matters is astonishingly poor I am also astonished (well that's too strong - slightly surprised). Although only because the world is littered with people prepared to offer a view as fact and with the complete absence of supporting information/evidence. In some cases those people are the most powerful individuals on the planet. The internet allows them to communicate such views to very large numbers of people. Arguably to the whole of the rest of humanity. The Oatcake is no exception.
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Post by Gods on Sept 11, 2019 13:27:51 GMT
I'm astonished that you're astonished as my own knowledge on footballing matters is astonishingly poor I am also astonished (well that's too strong - slightly surprised). Although only because the world is littered with people prepared to offer a view as fact and with the complete absence of supporting information/evidence. In some cases those people are the most powerful individuals on the planet. The internet allows them to communicate such views to very large numbers of people. Arguably to the whole of the rest of humanity. The Oatcake is no exception. I never let the facts get in the way of one of my arguments:-)
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Post by SCFC92 on Sept 11, 2019 13:39:03 GMT
Fantastically put, I won't deny, I wobbled after Birmingham and questioned Jones' tenure. However taking a step back, the international break and looking at the bigger picture I'm happy to see us in for the long haul with him. .. and drop another Division? That would be a complete and utter disaster for this club... But right now the track record shows a team under a manager only going one place (and it isn't up)! We won't be relegated. As hard as it is, and I understand the frustration, hold on tight, and hold your nerve, this will go right if we stick to it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 11, 2019 14:58:49 GMT
.. and drop another Division? That would be a complete and utter disaster for this club... But right now the track record shows a team under a manager only going one place (and it isn't up)! We won't be relegated. As hard as it is, and I understand the frustration, hold on tight, and hold your nerve, this will go right if we stick to it. Stick to what though? He's not sticking to anything at the moment, he's changing week to week.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 11, 2019 15:00:06 GMT
So far as I'm concerned, the appointment of Jones heralded the start of a long term project, to which his performance last season is of no relevance. With such a project, you have to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth in order to reap the rewards. You can't panic after six games and immediately regress to bringing back TP or one of the less good Pulis-lite managers. If the board really were weighing up whether or not to dismiss him, it would be absolutely farcical to leave things be over the international break and to then sack him after a bad result Saturday. Fantastically put, I won't deny, I wobbled after Birmingham and questioned Jones' tenure. However taking a step back, the international break and looking at the bigger picture I'm happy to see us in for the long haul with him. I wobbled too, straight onto the fence, the way he went about setting up against Birmingham made me question if he has the back bone for whats needed, it took him only 5 games to make him revert to what we know doesn't work from last season and to completely abandon the philosophy he has talked about from day one, for me that's a worry, it'll be interesting what he does next.
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 11, 2019 15:09:34 GMT
That's the worry, he recruited for the diamond, worked on it all close season then ditched it with a system which isn't fit for purpose. Worrying indeed, but hey let's give him until Christmas to suss it all out!!
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Post by nott1 on Sept 11, 2019 15:19:40 GMT
That's the worry, he recruited for the diamond, worked on it all close season then ditched it with a system which isn't fit for purpose. Worrying indeed, but hey let's give him until Christmas to suss it all out!! Thanks for the offer.......but no!
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 11, 2019 16:14:51 GMT
I'm astonished that you're astonished as my own knowledge on footballing matters is astonishingly poor I am also astonished (well that's too strong - slightly surprised). Although only because the world is littered with people prepared to offer a view as fact and with the complete absence of supporting information/evidence. In some cases those people are the most powerful individuals on the planet. The internet allows them to communicate such views to very large numbers of people. Arguably to the whole of the rest of humanity. The Oatcake is no exception. Does that make Smudge, DaveF, et al among the most powerful individuals in the world? EEEK! I wonder if it's too late to take back the insults I made to them over the years?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 11, 2019 16:16:06 GMT
That's the worry, he recruited for the diamond, worked on it all close season then ditched it with a system which isn't fit for purpose. Worrying indeed, but hey let's give him until Christmas to suss it all out!! What happens next will say a lot about him, if he learns from it then great, if he keeps jumping about at any formation in the hope one works instead of working on the one that he started with, the one that created chance after chance and on occasion was only let down by stupid mistakes then it would be hard to argue for him.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 11, 2019 16:38:10 GMT
Fantastically put, I won't deny, I wobbled after Birmingham and questioned Jones' tenure. However taking a step back, the international break and looking at the bigger picture I'm happy to see us in for the long haul with him. How long is 'the long haul'? How long is a piece of string? Until the job is done or the owners decide that NJ is not capable of getting the job done.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 11, 2019 16:40:50 GMT
How long is 'the long haul'? How long is a piece of string? Until the job is done or the owners decide that NJ is not capable of getting the job done. Those are fairly diametrically opposed though?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 11, 2019 16:59:32 GMT
I honestly think you need to take another look at the statistics. Compare that with general performance and player ethics. The only way this situation could seem more damning is if we were to lose the next X amounts of games. So how long would you give him? Don't you think it is reasonable to weigh up or options and see who is available also? If hughton says he would take it and by some miracle he would still do it after we lose the next 3... Wouldn't it be reasonable? So yes, we should be looking for a new 'potential' manager. So far as I'm concerned, the appointment of Jones heralded the start of a long term project, to which his performance last season is of no relevance. With such a project, you have to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth in order to reap the rewards. You can't panic after six games and immediately regress to bringing back TP or one of the less good Pulis-lite managers. If the board really were weighing up whether or not to dismiss him, it would be absolutely farcical to leave things be over the international break and to then sack him after a bad result Saturday. Indeed. This is what I've been trying to say, there's no way he's going anywhere in the next month or so.
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Post by samwidge on Sept 11, 2019 17:00:13 GMT
.. and drop another Division? That would be a complete and utter disaster for this club... But right now the track record shows a team under a manager only going one place (and it isn't up)! We won't be relegated. As hard as it is, and I understand the frustration, hold on tight, and hold your nerve, this will go right if we stick to it. I wobbled at the point where we let Velinden go out on loan. But I agree with you. I don't think we'll get relegated either. I think we should stick with nathan. Yes I can understand the frustration as preseason was full of talk of promotion and winning. Still think we've got a decent team, IF we play the right players for the right games. Surely Campbell has to start WITH another striker, probably Vokes. Play Badou and Etebo , we're paying Badou so make him earn his wage. I'd bring BMI back in and play a back 3 . Badou and Etebo in the middle , Campbell and another forward up top, and pick the rest of the team on merit. We'll be ok.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 11, 2019 17:00:42 GMT
Fantastically put, I won't deny, I wobbled after Birmingham and questioned Jones' tenure. However taking a step back, the international break and looking at the bigger picture I'm happy to see us in for the long haul with him. .. and drop another Division? That would be a complete and utter disaster for this club... But right now the track record shows a team under a manager only going one place (and it isn't up)! Why do people insist on using inappropriate, over the top adjectives? While none of us want to see anything other than success for Stoke, how does relegation become "Complete and Utter Disaster"? Will the club cease to exist. Will it never be able to climb back? Of course not. I offer as proof that relegation is not the end of the world the following examples of clubs who have fallen to the third tier or beyond and come back firing on all cylinders: Wolves, Leicester, Sheffield United, Southampton, Norwich, Leeds, Forest among many more (ourselves included). While I realize that a 5 or 10 year stay outside of the Premier League represents an impossibly long time for someone who has only followed Stoke (not talking about anyone specific) since the Premier league promotion, it is the blink of an eye in the bigger footballing picture.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 17:10:30 GMT
.. and drop another Division? That would be a complete and utter disaster for this club... But right now the track record shows a team under a manager only going one place (and it isn't up)! Why do people insist on using inappropriate, over the top adjectives? While none of us want to see anything other than success for Stoke, how does relegation become "Complete and Utter Disaster"? Will the club cease to exist. Will it never be able to climb back? Of course not. I offer as proof that relegation is not the end of the world the following examples of clubs who have fallen to the third tier or beyond and come back firing on all cylinders: Wolves, Leicester, Sheffield United, Southampton, Norwich, Leeds, Forest among many more (ourselves included). While I realize that a 5 or 10 year stay outside of the Premier League represents an impossibly long time for someone who has only followed Stoke (not talking about anyone specific) since the Premier league promotion, it is the blink of an eye in the bigger footballing picture. How do you expect us to pay all the players we have on the contracts they have and the wages they are on. When we already know most are unsellable? How do you expect them to continue to put £5m into the academy every year as they do? Do is not concern you that jobs for those working generally at the club may have to be cut? Or that funding for the community trust might stop? Do you appreciate the financial implications of us getting relegated at all? It’s not quite the same as it used to be and it’s not like you can just put money in anymore...
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Post by s8to on Sept 11, 2019 18:30:54 GMT
.. and drop another Division? That would be a complete and utter disaster for this club... But right now the track record shows a team under a manager only going one place (and it isn't up)! Why do people insist on using inappropriate, over the top adjectives? While none of us want to see anything other than success for Stoke, how does relegation become "Complete and Utter Disaster"? Will the club cease to exist. Will it never be able to climb back? Of course not. I offer as proof that relegation is not the end of the world the following examples of clubs who have fallen to the third tier or beyond and come back firing on all cylinders: Wolves, Leicester, Sheffield United, Southampton, Norwich, Leeds, Forest among many more (ourselves included). While I realize that a 5 or 10 year stay outside of the Premier League represents an impossibly long time for someone who has only followed Stoke (not talking about anyone specific) since the Premier league promotion, it is the blink of an eye in the bigger footballing picture. Sorry what tosh!
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Post by s8to on Sept 11, 2019 18:32:14 GMT
Why do people insist on using inappropriate, over the top adjectives? While none of us want to see anything other than success for Stoke, how does relegation become "Complete and Utter Disaster"? Will the club cease to exist. Will it never be able to climb back? Of course not. I offer as proof that relegation is not the end of the world the following examples of clubs who have fallen to the third tier or beyond and come back firing on all cylinders: Wolves, Leicester, Sheffield United, Southampton, Norwich, Leeds, Forest among many more (ourselves included). While I realize that a 5 or 10 year stay outside of the Premier League represents an impossibly long time for someone who has only followed Stoke (not talking about anyone specific) since the Premier league promotion, it is the blink of an eye in the bigger footballing picture. How do you expect us to pay all the players we have on the contracts they have and the wages they are on. When we already know most are unsellable? How do you expect them to continue to put £5m into the academy every year as they do? Do is not concern you that jobs for those working generally at the club may have to be cut? Or that funding for the community trust might stop? Do you appreciate the financial implications of us getting relegated at all? It’s not quite the same as it used to be and it’s not like you can just put money in anymore... This is more like the reality I was talking about.. simply cataclysmic!
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 11, 2019 19:51:02 GMT
How long is a piece of string? Until the job is done or the owners decide that NJ is not capable of getting the job done. Those are fairly diametrically opposed though? I don't know, you hire a new employee, give him/her time to "settle in", learn "the culture", systems and resources available, then expect him/her to perform the job they were hired for. Either they start moving toward key metrics or you start "managing" them to remove barriers to success. At some point the employee either succeeds or it becomes glaringly obvious that they are incapable of succeeding. Part of the problem is that we don't quite know the metrics for success that have been laid out for NJ. In our minds, it's "get us back up again NOW.... regardless of what you have to do. In the owners mind's, it may be "make sure we're sustainable before taking us up" or some other equally worthy longer term goal.
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Post by GoBoks on Sept 11, 2019 19:51:58 GMT
Why do people insist on using inappropriate, over the top adjectives? While none of us want to see anything other than success for Stoke, how does relegation become "Complete and Utter Disaster"? Will the club cease to exist. Will it never be able to climb back? Of course not. I offer as proof that relegation is not the end of the world the following examples of clubs who have fallen to the third tier or beyond and come back firing on all cylinders: Wolves, Leicester, Sheffield United, Southampton, Norwich, Leeds, Forest among many more (ourselves included). While I realize that a 5 or 10 year stay outside of the Premier League represents an impossibly long time for someone who has only followed Stoke (not talking about anyone specific) since the Premier league promotion, it is the blink of an eye in the bigger footballing picture. Sorry what tosh! Are you sure you didn't mean "What complete and utter tosh?"
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 11, 2019 21:58:30 GMT
Those are fairly diametrically opposed though? I don't know, you hire a new employee, give him/her time to "settle in", learn "the culture", systems and resources available, then expect him/her to perform the job they were hired for. Either they start moving toward key metrics or you start "managing" them to remove barriers to success. At some point the employee either succeeds or it becomes glaringly obvious that they are incapable of succeeding. Part of the problem is that we don't quite know the metrics for success that have been laid out for NJ. In our minds, it's "get us back up again NOW.... regardless of what you have to do. In the owners mind's, it may be "make sure we're sustainable before taking us up" or some other equally worthy longer term goal. I really don’t think it’s “get us back up again NOW”, it’s more “don’t have us stone bottom of the league conceding upwards of two goals every week while panicking your tits off and picking a new team and formation each time”.
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 19, 2019 10:55:28 GMT
I thought this Chapple guy was on his way 3 weeks ago?
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Post by dreamtheater on Sept 19, 2019 10:59:36 GMT
hardly any burning incoming issues are there ?
More likely, his first instruction will be :-
'Can you see how many of the absolute bag of shyte we recently signed, you can get unloaded in January ?
along with, all the other shyte we already had ? -- unquote
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 19, 2019 11:09:15 GMT
Maybe there's a snag?
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Post by somersetstokie on Sept 19, 2019 11:10:49 GMT
No need for a director of recruitment, or even similar, for quite a while I would think. If I was in any way in control of Stoke City FC I would impose a two year embargo on anything but emergency signings and insist that we make do with the three teams that we have already got. NO MORE SIGNINGS.
At the moment we could take over the likes of Bolton and Port Vale and say don't worry, we'll bring our own team.
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Post by dreamtheater on Sept 19, 2019 11:11:46 GMT
Seriously folks - on any professional level, Would you seriously want to be associated with that 'absolute bag of shyte of a football club' right now ?
be like taking your family on holiday to a leper colony.
( or a Turkey voting for Xmas)
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Post by wrexhamstokie90 on Sept 19, 2019 11:40:40 GMT
Obviously because of Jones situation if he’s his guy well that’s what it look like to me
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Post by knowingeye on Sept 19, 2019 11:55:05 GMT
What's all the fuss about?
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Post by dreamtheater on Sept 19, 2019 12:18:15 GMT
The fuss ?
The club have actually improved its management structure off the pitch i.e.
one of the incompetents has tore up his meal ticket and left
just a few more now and club can start to rebuild properly
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Post by riproaringagain on Sept 19, 2019 12:25:23 GMT
No open top bus to celebrate his great collection of scouting and hand in the signings
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2019 12:35:35 GMT
Ambition
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