|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 19:44:16 GMT
The Met Police confirmed that the attack took place...... To be glib the Met Police are still working into an assumption that Maddie McCann was kidnapped. In the centre of of London I cannot believe a full blown attack on a group of 5 or so blokes took place without witnesses and cctv outside a pub at kicking our time. The attackers would have to be at least the same amount of people to risk a kicking themselves. Even if an attack did happen there is no evidence to suggest it wasn’t a routine Saturday night handbags rather than this right wing political attack he is claiming from attackers that didn’t speak. All too fucking thin for me I make no comment on who the perpetrators were, just that the police confirmed that it took place. If you don’t believe them that’s fine.....
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Aug 20, 2019 19:53:50 GMT
Whether it’s far left Mao or far right Adolf one thing they have in common is they both believe in a big state/government, that’s where the danger lies, the centralisation of power.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Aug 20, 2019 20:00:50 GMT
Whether it’s far left Mao or far right Adolf one thing they have in common is they both believe in a big state/government, that’s where the danger lies, the centralisation of power. Indeed. As the famous quote puts it "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".
|
|
|
Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 20:14:30 GMT
I don't think so. To me it depends on your definition of "bad". There are lots of folk in the world who would say there's nothing "bad" about being anti-gay marriage for example. I'm not saying those are "bad" people, although I would argue that that particular stance is a "bad" thing to support for a number of reasons. That's my own subjective opinion. But purely objectively there's no escaping the fact that being anti-gay marriage is a traditionally right wing social policy. It just is. Likewise on the left of the spectrum some people might be pro-mass immigration which many, particularly on here, would say is a "bad" thing to support for a number of reasons. Whether or not mass immigration is "bad" is again a subject of debate (and fuck knows there's a lot of that on here ) but again, just stating a fact it's a traditionally left wing social policy. I think maybe there are connotations to "left" and "right" wing that people don't want to be associated with, but that's a whole other issue, and doesn't affect whether something actually IS left or right wing. Castro and Guevara's murders of political enemies; left or right? Murder in and of itself is neither left or right wing is it? I think this is one of the things that most people across the political spectrum ought to be able to agree on. Bad deeds can be committed by people for either left or right wing political motivations. Murder isn't really what might be called either an economic or a social policy is it.
|
|
|
Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 20:29:57 GMT
The Met Police confirmed that the attack took place...... To be glib the Met Police are still working into an assumption that Maddie McCann was kidnapped. In the centre of of London I cannot believe a full blown attack on a group of 5 or so blokes took place without witnesses and cctv outside a pub at kicking our time. The attackers would have to be at least the same amount of people to risk a kicking themselves. Even if an attack did happen there is no evidence to suggest it wasn’t a routine Saturday night handbags rather than this right wing political attack he is claiming from attackers that didn’t speak. All too fucking thin for me So now Owen Jones is in some kind of conspiracy with the Metropolitan Police to fake an attack on himself so that Jeremy Corbyn can post one tweet about "the far right" being on the march. OR ... you don't like him, you don't want to believe him, and you don't want to feel awkward if a few right wing people stigmatise the good name of the right because that's how you identify yourself politically. I've seen you post some fucking gibberish on here mate, but this is right up there. You can bang it in your next Now That's What I Call Gobshite compilation
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Aug 20, 2019 20:31:56 GMT
Chairman Mao 60 million deaths Joseph Stalin 40 million deaths
You could say they are a bit leftish
So they are right wing then or is there no such thing as right wing communism? If you kill people you surely can't be left wing just right wing within a left leaning system. we've got a right one here, are you Diane Abbott ?
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Aug 20, 2019 20:34:57 GMT
Whether it’s far left Mao or far right Adolf one thing they have in common is they both believe in a big state/government, that’s where the danger lies, the centralisation of power. A bit like the errrrmmmm the EU trying to dictate the policies for the whole of Europe
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 20:37:51 GMT
Castro and Guevara's murders of political enemies; left or right? Murder in and of itself is neither left or right wing is it? I think this is one of the things that most people across the political spectrum ought to be able to agree on. Bad deeds can be committed by people for either left or right wing political motivations. Murder isn't really what might be called either an economic or a social policy is it. Your second paragraph is what I was asking for, and gets away from the Tory Bad, Labour good stuff that is so prevalent on here.
|
|
|
Post by thisisouryear on Aug 20, 2019 20:59:01 GMT
So they are right wing then or is there no such thing as right wing communism? If you kill people you surely can't be left wing just right wing within a left leaning system. we've got a right one here, are you Diane Abbott ? Yes, i think you have. Like i said previously i don't know anything about politics. You look at left and right wing depending on whether people are capitalists, socialists, communist or whatever ists. I like many people would probably not be completely one or the other so in general left wing or right wing depends on your stance to certain issues.
|
|
|
Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 21:09:13 GMT
Whether it’s far left Mao or far right Adolf one thing they have in common is they both believe in a big state/government, that’s where the danger lies, the centralisation of power. This isn't really accurate. Mao believed in a large state ideologically because that's kind of what communism IS. Hitler built a large state out of necessity because firstly he needed to build infrastructure and create jobs. Then he wanted to invade various places, so needed a huge military. HOWEVER he also believed in heavy privatisation, just like General Pinochet did. Could privatisation therefore be where the danger lies? Another thing Hitler believed in was outsourcing. He outsourced a huge number of lucrative government contracts to private enterprises such as Siemens, Hugo Boss, Messerschmitt (BMW), Mercedes-Benz ..... Just like the European Union routinely does. Could outsourcing therefore be where the danger lies? Hitler was also a vegetarian, and so was Charles Manson. Is the danger actually lying in vegetarianism? The point being that this logic can be used to argue for/against just about anything you want, but doesn't address any real pros or cons of a given political ideology (or vegetarianism for that matter ). It can just be used to draw random links between unconnected things for the purposes of window dressing an argument.
|
|
|
Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 21:12:24 GMT
Murder in and of itself is neither left or right wing is it? I think this is one of the things that most people across the political spectrum ought to be able to agree on. Bad deeds can be committed by people for either left or right wing political motivations. Murder isn't really what might be called either an economic or a social policy is it. Your second paragraph is what I was asking for, and gets away from the Tory Bad, Labour good stuff that is so prevalent on here. Yes and I don't believe I've ever suggested otherwise EDIT: Actually no. "Tory bad Labour good" is fine, as is the inverse. That's subjective opinion and we live in a democracy so you have to suck that up. Saying PEOPLE are bad for holding those views is different.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Aug 20, 2019 21:25:00 GMT
Whether it’s far left Mao or far right Adolf one thing they have in common is they both believe in a big state/government, that’s where the danger lies, the centralisation of power. This isn't really accurate. Mao believed in a large state ideologically because that's kind of what communism IS. Hitler built a large state out of necessity because firstly he needed to build infrastructure and create jobs. Then he wanted to invade various places, so needed a huge military. HOWEVER he also believed in heavy privatisation, just like General Pinochet did. Could privatisation therefore be where the danger lies? Another thing Hitler believed in was outsourcing. He outsourced a huge number of lucrative government contracts to private enterprises such as Siemens, Hugo Boss, Messerschmitt (BMW), Mercedes-Benz ..... Just like the European Union routinely does. Could outsourcing therefore be where the danger lies? Hitler was also a vegetarian, and so was Charles Manson. Is the danger actually lying in vegetarianism? The point being that this logic can be used to argue for/against just about anything you want, but doesn't address any real pros or cons of a given political ideology (or vegetarianism for that matter ). It can just be used to draw random links between unconnected things for the purposes of window dressing an argument. Hitler was a fascist and mao was a communist, different economic systems but both predicated on an all powerful centralised state. Neither believed in decentralised free markets. How private can you claim to be if the government is your biggest customer ? It’s quasi private at best.
|
|
|
Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 21:51:07 GMT
This isn't really accurate. Mao believed in a large state ideologically because that's kind of what communism IS. Hitler built a large state out of necessity because firstly he needed to build infrastructure and create jobs. Then he wanted to invade various places, so needed a huge military. HOWEVER he also believed in heavy privatisation, just like General Pinochet did. Could privatisation therefore be where the danger lies? Another thing Hitler believed in was outsourcing. He outsourced a huge number of lucrative government contracts to private enterprises such as Siemens, Hugo Boss, Messerschmitt (BMW), Mercedes-Benz ..... Just like the European Union routinely does. Could outsourcing therefore be where the danger lies? Hitler was also a vegetarian, and so was Charles Manson. Is the danger actually lying in vegetarianism? The point being that this logic can be used to argue for/against just about anything you want, but doesn't address any real pros or cons of a given political ideology (or vegetarianism for that matter ). It can just be used to draw random links between unconnected things for the purposes of window dressing an argument. Hitler was a fascist and mao was a communist, different economic systems but both predicated on an all powerful centralised state. Neither believed in decentralised free markets. How private can you claim to be if the government is your biggest customer ? It’s quasi private at best. Yet Ronald Reagan was perhaps the ultimate example of a pro-free market leader. Who simultaneously had a vast government (most powerful armed force on earth). Big privatiser, big outsourcer. But simultaneously ran up unprecedented government debt.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Aug 20, 2019 22:06:04 GMT
Hitler was a fascist and mao was a communist, different economic systems but both predicated on an all powerful centralised state. Neither believed in decentralised free markets. How private can you claim to be if the government is your biggest customer ? It’s quasi private at best. Yet Ronald Reagan was perhaps the ultimate example of a pro-free market leader. Who simultaneously had a vast government (most powerful armed force on earth). Big privatiser, big outsourcer. But simultaneously ran up unprecedented government debt. Depends who you ask, If you ask the Austrian school economists they don’t consider Reagan a free market leader, he bailed out corporations like Chrysler, free marketeers don’t believe in government bailouts. He ran up debt because he cut taxes but didn’t cut spending, trump is doing the same now. My point stands, big centralised government is the common denominator amongst those mass murdering regimes.
|
|
|
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 21, 2019 1:14:56 GMT
Like the very intelligent Vokeswagen says and demonstrates, left / right is a fallacy unless you also consider the extra dimension of authoritarian / libertarian.
Politics is multi-dimensional but people are still obsessed with this left/right bullshit.
All politics in this country since time immemorial have been authoritarian. Libertarian politics have only killed people who were aggressors.
I'd put myself in an economically right, socially liberal quadrant but that relies on politicians backing the fuck off which they won't do because power is too alluring. The economically left, socially liberal quadrant are fucking horrible little hippy pussies, and the authoritarian left and right just kill people.
|
|
|
Post by zerps on Aug 21, 2019 4:35:29 GMT
Why can’t we just agree that all humans are twats and get on with it.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Aug 21, 2019 12:09:09 GMT
we've got a right one here, are you Diane Abbott ? Yes, i think you have. Like i said previously i don't know anything about politics. You look at left and right wing depending on whether people are capitalists, socialists, communist or whatever ists. I like many people would probably not be completely one or the other so in general left wing or right wing depends on your stance to certain issues. Stalin was a hard left Marxist ! John Mcdonnell the Corbyn puppet master is also a Marxist and advocates the teachings of Chairman Mao, do you want him running our country ?
|
|
|
Post by vokeswagen on Aug 21, 2019 12:23:34 GMT
Yes, i think you have. Like i said previously i don't know anything about politics. You look at left and right wing depending on whether people are capitalists, socialists, communist or whatever ists. I like many people would probably not be completely one or the other so in general left wing or right wing depends on your stance to certain issues. Stalin was a hard left Marxist ! John Mcdonnell the Corbyn puppet master is also a Marxist and advocates the teachings of Chairman Mao, do you want him running our country ? Stalin was socially very conservative and hated intellectuals mate. You'd have got on like a dacha on fire
|
|
|
Post by prettything on Aug 21, 2019 12:24:23 GMT
Yes, i think you have. Like i said previously i don't know anything about politics. You look at left and right wing depending on whether people are capitalists, socialists, communist or whatever ists. I like many people would probably not be completely one or the other so in general left wing or right wing depends on your stance to certain issues. Stalin was a hard left Marxist ! John Mcdonnell the Corbyn puppet master is also a Marxist and advocates the teachings of Chairman Mao, do you want him running our country ? “John Mcdonnell the Corbyn puppet master is also a Marxist and advocates the teachings of Chairman Mao.” When?
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Aug 21, 2019 12:32:37 GMT
There’s definitely some love for far left dictators in this Labour Party, mao did more good than harm !
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Aug 21, 2019 12:38:14 GMT
Stalin was a hard left Marxist ! John Mcdonnell the Corbyn puppet master is also a Marxist and advocates the teachings of Chairman Mao, do you want him running our country ? “John Mcdonnell the Corbyn puppet master is also a Marxist and advocates the teachings of Chairman Mao.” When? Mr McDonnell continued: "Let me quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber, 'We must learn to do economic work from all who know how. No matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously. But we must not pretend to know what we do not know'.
|
|
|
Post by prettything on Aug 21, 2019 12:40:32 GMT
Mr McDonnell continued: "Let me quote from Mao, rarely done in this chamber, 'We must learn to do economic work from all who know how. No matter who they are, we must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously. But we must not pretend to know what we do not know'. Wow. You have either not read the full article or you deliberately didn’t tag the link to falsely back up your claim to mislead people. I would suggest you read it, properly.
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Aug 21, 2019 12:50:45 GMT
Yes, i think you have. Like i said previously i don't know anything about politics. You look at left and right wing depending on whether people are capitalists, socialists, communist or whatever ists. I like many people would probably not be completely one or the other so in general left wing or right wing depends on your stance to certain issues. Stalin was a hard left Marxist ! John Mcdonnell the Corbyn puppet master is also a Marxist and advocates the teachings of Chairman Mao, do you want him running our country ? Nothing wrong with Marx. People may have done bad things in his name, but nothing wrong with Marx. Brilliant Mind.
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Aug 21, 2019 12:53:41 GMT
Stalin was a hard left Marxist ! John Mcdonnell the Corbyn puppet master is also a Marxist and advocates the teachings of Chairman Mao, do you want him running our country ? Nothing wrong with Marx. People may have done bad things in his name, but nothing wrong with Marx. Brilliant Mind. every time a government tries to implement Marxism it turns into a bloodbath, just coincidence ?
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Aug 21, 2019 13:12:48 GMT
Nothing wrong with Marx. People may have done bad things in his name, but nothing wrong with Marx. Brilliant Mind. every time a government tries to implement Marxism it turns into a bloodbath, just coincidence ? Marx was a philosopher, how individuals interpret is their doing. It’s like blaming Jesus for the Inquisition.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Aug 21, 2019 13:50:06 GMT
Wow. You have either not read the full article or you deliberately didn’t tag the link to falsely back up your claim to mislead people. I would suggest you read it, properly. Is he a Marxist ? does he carry Mao's little red book ?
|
|
|
Post by prettything on Aug 21, 2019 14:22:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by foster on Aug 21, 2019 15:23:11 GMT
every time a government tries to implement Marxism it turns into a bloodbath, just coincidence ? Marx was a philosopher, how individuals interpret is their doing. It’s like blaming Jesus for the Inquisition. Are you trying to say it wasn't Jesus's fault? Deluded!
|
|
|
Post by eebygum on Aug 21, 2019 16:46:48 GMT
Like the very intelligent Vokeswagen says and demonstrates, left / right is a fallacy unless you also consider the extra dimension of authoritarian / libertarian. Politics is multi-dimensional but people are still obsessed with this left/right bullshit. All politics in this country since time immemorial have been authoritarian. Libertarian politics have only killed people who were aggressors. I'd put myself in an economically right, socially liberal quadrant but that relies on politicians backing the fuck off which they won't do because power is too alluring. The economically left, socially liberal quadrant are fucking horrible little hippy pussies, and the authoritarian left and right just kill people. Wha' reducti' nonsense
|
|
|
Post by eebygum on Aug 21, 2019 16:51:26 GMT
Like the very intelligent Vokeswagen says and demonstrates, left / right is a fallacy unless you also consider the extra dimension of authoritarian / libertarian. Politics is multi-dimensional but people are still obsessed with this left/right bullshit. All politics in this country since time immemorial have been authoritarian. Libertarian politics have only killed people who were aggressors. I'd put myself in an economically right, socially liberal quadrant but that relies on politicians backing the fuck off which they won't do because power is too alluring. The economically left, socially liberal quadrant are fucking horrible little hippy pussies, and the authoritarian left and right just kill people. Thars effectively creyted three dimensions i' thy analysis theear, 'n therefooar eight octants. care ta expan' on apiece o' 'em 'n use um pithy reducti' aphorism ta let everyone kna why thee are rong 'n theur are reet?
|
|