|
Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 20, 2019 9:12:47 GMT
The problem of course with this board is one of definitions. There's a significant rump of people who consider the likes of Yaxley-Lennon to be Martyrs and not part of a bile filled far right at all.
It would be astounding to see what sort of character they do see as 'far right'!
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Aug 20, 2019 9:14:21 GMT
The guy interviewing Morgan there, Ben Shapiro literally ran away from an interview from Andrew Neil calling him a "lefty" when Neil simply questioned him on his views on abortion and the Middle East. Andrew Neil is many things but a lefty is just about the last thing I would call him. He later apologised saying he misinterpreted Neil's line of questioning as "left wing political bias". Shapiro came to prominence by "destroying" left wing ideals with his own rhetoric on conservative US channels, it would seem he can only do it in a "safe space". There's as many snowflakes on the right just as there is on the left, just like how the left has as many people who aren't actually remotely liberal as the right. The problem is, both sides are unwilling to shift from either of their purported positions on anything. I've not seen the video that you refer to so cannot comment. I think that Piers has a point about the left though who have always assumed the righteous higher ground as their natural position against the naturally nasty right. Claire Fox has her reservations ( from 20.30) about the left in this lengthy video, but well worth watching as an explanation of the current state of play. Ah, good old Claire Fox. Former Communist Party member and defender of the IRA.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Aug 20, 2019 9:15:19 GMT
I have always thought the far left are usually more sinister than the far right. The latter tend to be in your face, unsophisticated pricks, the former like to do their deeds in the background. Neither group have anything to deserve anything other than contempt because that is what they show for who don’t agree with them. I might be wrong in the way i view people far right, but people who tend to be labelled far right would be the type of people who deal drugs, hang around in gangs, carry knives, rob and beat up older people, glass someone, use acid and generally not give a shit about anyone but themselves and don't care who they hurt. Again i might be wrong in the way i view people far left, but they tend to be more of a group with good intentions but too extreme in the way they want to make a difference, and they come across brainwashed to the point they try to force everyone to do as they do. People who would tend to be labelled far left would be people like vegans, climate change protesters and people who want the world to be one harmonious place where everyone lives together and gets on. Now you will probably say i am completely wrong but as someone who doesn't really know much about politics, this is generally where i would place some groups on the political spectrum. Also to add when it comes to people who are labelled far right they would be more likely not to have any political interest whatsoever and are generally just sick twats. No you aren't wrong. I guess the question is do you prefer being stabbed in the front (those nasty right wingers) or the back (your lovable lefties)? In either case you get stabbed!
|
|
|
Post by foster on Aug 20, 2019 9:36:52 GMT
Are we now justifying the behaviour of the right by looking at the behaviour of the left.
So many excuses.
|
|
|
Post by xchpotter on Aug 20, 2019 9:43:03 GMT
I have always thought the far left are usually more sinister than the far right. The latter tend to be in your face, unsophisticated pricks, the former like to do their deeds in the background. Neither group have anything to deserve anything other than contempt because that is what they show for who don’t agree with them. I might be wrong in the way i view people far right, but people who tend to be labelled far right would be the type of people who deal drugs, hang around in gangs, carry knives, rob and beat up older people, glass someone, use acid and generally not give a shit about anyone but themselves and don't care who they hurt. Again i might be wrong in the way i view people far left, but they tend to be more of a group with good intentions but too extreme in the way they want to make a difference, and they come across brainwashed to the point they try to force everyone to do as they do. People who would tend to be labelled far left would be people like vegans, climate change protesters and people who want the world to be one harmonious place where everyone lives together and gets on. Now you will probably say i am completely wrong but as someone who doesn't really know much about politics, this is generally where i would place some groups on the political spectrum. Also to add when it comes to people who are labelled far right they would be more likely not to have any political interest whatsoever and are generally just sick twats. I don’t think you can say extreme left or right are any better than each other for the lengths of violence they will go to. For your view of the extreme right, how about the animal liberation lot who are probably considered left leaning as opposed to right. Look at their tactics, which are well reported by the likes of BBC, Guardian etc reporting them involved in arson and bomb attack’s. Some groups are likened to having a terrorise type approach to get their point across and individuals and companies are specifically targeted. The bottom line is that the far right extremists are as bad as the far left and vice verse. The question to be asked is how these groups come to prominence every now and again....it’s usually because there is a gap in the middle of politics or central politics is not working causing some to become disenfranchised. The politicians need to have a consensus of working together for the good of the country and it’s people which unfortunately doesn’t look like it will happen any time soon. If they ever achieve that, support for extremist views reduces considerably.
|
|
|
Post by foster on Aug 20, 2019 10:00:29 GMT
I might be wrong in the way i view people far right, but people who tend to be labelled far right would be the type of people who deal drugs, hang around in gangs, carry knives, rob and beat up older people, glass someone, use acid and generally not give a shit about anyone but themselves and don't care who they hurt. Again i might be wrong in the way i view people far left, but they tend to be more of a group with good intentions but too extreme in the way they want to make a difference, and they come across brainwashed to the point they try to force everyone to do as they do. People who would tend to be labelled far left would be people like vegans, climate change protesters and people who want the world to be one harmonious place where everyone lives together and gets on. Now you will probably say i am completely wrong but as someone who doesn't really know much about politics, this is generally where i would place some groups on the political spectrum. Also to add when it comes to people who are labelled far right they would be more likely not to have any political interest whatsoever and are generally just sick twats. I don’t think you can say extreme left or right are any better than each other for the lengths of violence they will go to. For your view of the extreme right, how about the animal liberation lot who are probably considered left leaning as opposed to right. Look at their tactics, which are well reported by the likes of BBC, Guardian etc reporting them involved in arson and bomb attack’s. Some groups are likened to having a terrorise type approach to get their point across and individuals and companies are specifically targeted. The bottom line is that the far right extremists are as bad as the far left and vice verse. The question to be asked is how these groups come to prominence every now and again....it’s usually because there is a gap in the middle of politics or central politics is not working causing some to become disenfranchised. The politicians need to have a consensus of working together for the good of the country and it’s people which unfortunately doesn’t look like it will happen any time soon. If they ever achieve that, support for extremist views reduces considerably. I sincerely doubt that, in any form. Violence, hate crimes, whatever you want to use as a marker. I doubt that there are anywhere near as many leftist related violence or hate crimes as those committed by far right minded individuals or groups.
|
|
|
Post by thisisouryear on Aug 20, 2019 10:03:11 GMT
I might be wrong in the way i view people far right, but people who tend to be labelled far right would be the type of people who deal drugs, hang around in gangs, carry knives, rob and beat up older people, glass someone, use acid and generally not give a shit about anyone but themselves and don't care who they hurt. Again i might be wrong in the way i view people far left, but they tend to be more of a group with good intentions but too extreme in the way they want to make a difference, and they come across brainwashed to the point they try to force everyone to do as they do. People who would tend to be labelled far left would be people like vegans, climate change protesters and people who want the world to be one harmonious place where everyone lives together and gets on. Now you will probably say i am completely wrong but as someone who doesn't really know much about politics, this is generally where i would place some groups on the political spectrum. Also to add when it comes to people who are labelled far right they would be more likely not to have any political interest whatsoever and are generally just sick twats. No you aren't wrong. I guess the question is do you prefer being stabbed in the front (those nasty right wingers) or the back (your lovable lefties)? In either case you get stabbed! To be fair it would appear the far right would stab you in the front and the back and still kick you in the head and then take your wallet. Not sure i have heard of a far left person killing someone (not that i remember anyway), they may hit you in the pocket. Do you think there would be some sort of purge by the far left to bring down CO2 emissions if it meant saving the planet?
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 20, 2019 10:29:20 GMT
I've not seen the video that you refer to so cannot comment. I think that Piers has a point about the left though who have always assumed the righteous higher ground as their natural position against the naturally nasty right. Claire Fox has her reservations ( from 20.30) about the left in this lengthy video, but well worth watching as an explanation of the current state of play. Ah, good old Claire Fox. Former Communist Party member and defender of the IRA. Aye that's the left for you. They identify with a cause , a perceived injustice and get sucked into the " terrorist wing" Corbyn is also a supporter of the IRA. and Hamas isn't he, and Mandela was a terrorist. ( Claire does make some other interesting observations from about 22.30 in my opinion).
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 20, 2019 10:58:15 GMT
Ah, good old Claire Fox. Former Communist Party member and defender of the IRA. Aye that's the left for you. They identify with a cause , a perceived injustice and get sucked into the " terrorist wing" Corbyn is also a supporter of the IRA. and Hamas isn't he, and Mandela was a terrorist. ( Claire does make some other interesting observations from about 22.30 in my opinion). And Pinochet was a mass murderer who was regularly courted by Maggie. The left aren't the only ones to associate with shady figures who can't be excused because they had (often by their own authority only) a twisted form of political legitimacy.
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Aug 20, 2019 10:58:44 GMT
Absolutely true . The whole right wing thread is absolutely pathetic . I consider right wing as BNP , EDL etc they re as irrelevant today as they've always been . Oh come on. It's like the Yaxley-Lennon fucking fan club on here! We even had a full on eulogy to Enoch on here the other day. Its a fucking cess pit of right wing filth! I've seen a few mention s of Tommy R on the board mostly from you shiek . As for Enoch well he was largely rememberd for a speech 50 years ago that destroyed his career .I met him once in a deli in France in about 1978 . Charming man
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 20, 2019 11:04:09 GMT
Aye that's the left for you. They identify with a cause , a perceived injustice and get sucked into the " terrorist wing" Corbyn is also a supporter of the IRA. and Hamas isn't he, and Mandela was a terrorist. ( Claire does make some other interesting observations from about 22.30 in my opinion). And Pinochet was a mass murderer who was regularly courted by Maggie. The left aren't the only ones to associate with shady figures who can't be excused because they had (often by their own authority only) a twisted form of political legitimacy. Exactly, Corbyn, Maggie,Fox, Nelson, Pinochet, IRA, can all be linked to terrorism....do the left are certainly no more virtuous?
|
|
|
Post by foster on Aug 20, 2019 11:05:33 GMT
Common sense tells you that anyone remotely trying to justify or defend far right behaviour clearly thinks that way.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 20, 2019 11:10:08 GMT
Oh come on. It's like the Yaxley-Lennon fucking fan club on here! We even had a full on eulogy to Enoch on here the other day. Its a fucking cess pit of right wing filth! As for Enoch well he was largely rememberd for a speech 50 years ago that destroyed his career .I met him once in a deli in France in about 1978 . Charming man I do hope the British man wasn't holding 'the whip hand' over The Frenchman was he?
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 20, 2019 11:33:49 GMT
I've not seen the video that you refer to so cannot comment. I think that Piers has a point about the left though who have always assumed the righteous higher ground as their natural position against the naturally nasty right. Claire Fox has her reservations ( from 20.30) about the left in this lengthy video, but well worth watching as an explanation of the current state of play. Ah, good old Claire Fox. Former Communist Party member and defender of the IRA. Her brother ran Shorts Bar in South Armagh.. Deep in the heart of 'Bandit Country'. The pub was always known as a meeting place for Provo's and strictly off limits for anyone serving in Crossmaglen or Bessbrook. He was alleged to be a member of the IRA.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Aug 20, 2019 12:10:30 GMT
I don’t think you can say extreme left or right are any better than each other for the lengths of violence they will go to. For your view of the extreme right, how about the animal liberation lot who are probably considered left leaning as opposed to right. Look at their tactics, which are well reported by the likes of BBC, Guardian etc reporting them involved in arson and bomb attack’s. Some groups are likened to having a terrorise type approach to get their point across and individuals and companies are specifically targeted. The bottom line is that the far right extremists are as bad as the far left and vice verse. The question to be asked is how these groups come to prominence every now and again....it’s usually because there is a gap in the middle of politics or central politics is not working causing some to become disenfranchised. The politicians need to have a consensus of working together for the good of the country and it’s people which unfortunately doesn’t look like it will happen any time soon. If they ever achieve that, support for extremist views reduces considerably. I sincerely doubt that, in any form. Violence, hate crimes, whatever you want to use as a marker. I doubt that there are anywhere near as many leftist related violence or hate crimes as those committed by far right minded individuals or groups. Chairman Mao 60 million deaths Joseph Stalin 40 million deaths
You could say they are a bit leftish
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Aug 20, 2019 12:14:24 GMT
As for Enoch well he was largely rememberd for a speech 50 years ago that destroyed his career .I met him once in a deli in France in about 1978 . Charming man I do hope the British man wasn't holding 'the whip hand' over The Frenchman was he? Those were the days 💪💪
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Aug 20, 2019 12:45:15 GMT
I support anyone’s right to criticise Islam but Robinson is financed by warmongering neocons in America, I don’t trust the bloke one bit, he’s a trouble maker and I think he rather enjoys the attention that the left and the media lavish on him.
|
|
|
Post by thisisouryear on Aug 20, 2019 15:22:29 GMT
I sincerely doubt that, in any form. Violence, hate crimes, whatever you want to use as a marker. I doubt that there are anywhere near as many leftist related violence or hate crimes as those committed by far right minded individuals or groups. Chairman Mao 60 million deaths Joseph Stalin 40 million deaths
You could say they are a bit leftish
So they are right wing then or is there no such thing as right wing communism? If you kill people you surely can't be left wing just right wing within a left leaning system.
|
|
|
Post by dannymadeley30 on Aug 20, 2019 15:33:58 GMT
You only have to look at facebook and social media to see how the far Right are advancing with homophobic slurs and casual racism becoming acceptable again, people like Hopkins and Vance have a lot to answer for.
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 15:47:48 GMT
Chairman Mao 60 million deaths Joseph Stalin 40 million deaths
You could say they are a bit leftish
So they are right wing then or is there no such thing as right wing communism? If you kill people you surely can't be left wing just right wing within a left leaning system. If Mao and Stalin aren't left wing, mate, I give up! It's like saying Himmler wasn't right wing.
|
|
|
Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 17:20:51 GMT
So they are right wing then or is there no such thing as right wing communism? If you kill people you surely can't be left wing just right wing within a left leaning system. If Mao and Stalin aren't left wing, mate, I give up! It's like saying Himmler wasn't right wing. People really need to stop thinking of "left" and "right" as exclusively holistic entities and learn to separate economic policy from social policy. Mao and Stalin were economically left wing but simultaneously anti-gay, anti-minority, anti-immigration for example, all of which are traditionally right-wing social policies. Tony Blair was socially left-wing but economically in favour of privatisation, low taxes and trickle down, all of which are traditionally right-wing economic policies. David Cameron was similar, though slightly less left-wing socially and slightly more right-wing economically. But in broad brush terms, both in a similar ballpark. Ronald Reagan was both socially and economically mainly right-wing, as was Thatcher. Jeremy Corbyn is both both socially and economically mainly left-wing, as was Michael Foot. Lots of the type of people loosely termed "traditional/lifelong Labour voters" are economically left-wing but socially tend towards conservatism. Hence why you get a message board like this, dedicated to a football club in a traditionally Labour stronghold, with quite a lot of views questioning liberal social policy. And so on and so on.
|
|
|
Post by zerps on Aug 20, 2019 17:33:32 GMT
Most people are half left
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 17:58:19 GMT
If Mao and Stalin aren't left wing, mate, I give up! It's like saying Himmler wasn't right wing. People really need to stop thinking of "left" and "right" as exclusively holistic entities and learn to separate economic policy from social policy. Mao and Stalin were economically left wing but simultaneously anti-gay, anti-minority, anti-immigration for example, all of which are traditionally right-wing social policies. Tony Blair was socially left-wing but economically in favour of privatisation, low taxes and trickle down, all of which are traditionally right-wing economic policies. David Cameron was similar, though slightly less left-wing socially and slightly more right-wing economically. But in broad brush terms, both in a similar ballpark. Ronald Reagan was both socially and economically mainly right-wing, as was Thatcher. Jeremy Corbyn is both both socially and economically mainly left-wing, as was Michael Foot. Lots of the type of people loosely termed "traditional/lifelong Labour voters" are economically left-wing but socially tend towards conservatism. Hence why you get a message board like this, dedicated to a football club in a traditionally Labour stronghold, with quite a lot of views questioning liberal social policy. And so on and so on. Fair enough, but doesn't "traditionally" right wing imply that only right wingers can be bad? Or right wing thinking is in essence , bad/evil? And the left wing bit of Mao and Stalin was ok, it was the right wing bit that fucked them up? I can't put it into words, but you know what I am getting at?
|
|
|
Post by vokeswagen on Aug 20, 2019 18:24:16 GMT
People really need to stop thinking of "left" and "right" as exclusively holistic entities and learn to separate economic policy from social policy. Mao and Stalin were economically left wing but simultaneously anti-gay, anti-minority, anti-immigration for example, all of which are traditionally right-wing social policies. Tony Blair was socially left-wing but economically in favour of privatisation, low taxes and trickle down, all of which are traditionally right-wing economic policies. David Cameron was similar, though slightly less left-wing socially and slightly more right-wing economically. But in broad brush terms, both in a similar ballpark. Ronald Reagan was both socially and economically mainly right-wing, as was Thatcher. Jeremy Corbyn is both both socially and economically mainly left-wing, as was Michael Foot. Lots of the type of people loosely termed "traditional/lifelong Labour voters" are economically left-wing but socially tend towards conservatism. Hence why you get a message board like this, dedicated to a football club in a traditionally Labour stronghold, with quite a lot of views questioning liberal social policy. And so on and so on. Fair enough, but doesn't "traditionally" right wing imply that only right wingers can be bad? Or right wing thinking is in essence , bad/evil? And the left wing bit of Mao and Stalin was ok, it was the right wing bit that fucked them up? I can't put it into words, but you know what I am getting at? I don't think so. To me it depends on your definition of "bad". There are lots of folk in the world who would say there's nothing "bad" about being anti-gay marriage for example. I'm not saying those are "bad" people, although I would argue that that particular stance is a "bad" thing to support for a number of reasons. That's my own subjective opinion. But purely objectively there's no escaping the fact that being anti-gay marriage is a traditionally right wing social policy. It just is. Likewise on the left of the spectrum some people might be pro-mass immigration which many, particularly on here, would say is a "bad" thing to support for a number of reasons. Whether or not mass immigration is "bad" is again a subject of debate (and fuck knows there's a lot of that on here ) but again, just stating a fact it's a traditionally left wing social policy. I think maybe there are connotations to "left" and "right" wing that people don't want to be associated with, but that's a whole other issue, and doesn't affect whether something actually IS left or right wing.
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 19:00:10 GMT
Fair enough, but doesn't "traditionally" right wing imply that only right wingers can be bad? Or right wing thinking is in essence , bad/evil? And the left wing bit of Mao and Stalin was ok, it was the right wing bit that fucked them up? I can't put it into words, but you know what I am getting at? I don't think so. To me it depends on your definition of "bad". There are lots of folk in the world who would say there's nothing "bad" about being anti-gay marriage for example. I'm not saying those are "bad" people, although I would argue that that particular stance is a "bad" thing to support for a number of reasons. That's my own subjective opinion. But purely objectively there's no escaping the fact that being anti-gay marriage is a traditionally right wing social policy. It just is. Likewise on the left of the spectrum some people might be pro-mass immigration which many, particularly on here, would say is a "bad" thing to support for a number of reasons. Whether or not mass immigration is "bad" is again a subject of debate (and fuck knows there's a lot of that on here ) but again, just stating a fact it's a traditionally left wing social policy. I think maybe there are connotations to "left" and "right" wing that people don't want to be associated with, but that's a whole other issue, and doesn't affect whether something actually IS left or right wing. Castro and Guevara's murders of political enemies; left or right?
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Aug 20, 2019 19:02:36 GMT
And still no proof Owen Jones was attacked
|
|
|
Post by mattyd on Aug 20, 2019 19:19:50 GMT
180 deg to the left on the spectrum, and 180 deg to the right on the spectrum, well, sort of meet in the middle...
Or put another way...Turn left at the lights, take the 1st left, come to the cross roads, turn left, go to the t junction , turn left, stop at the lights...Back to square 1...
Turn Right at the lights, turn 1st right, turn right at the crossroads, go to the t junction, turn right, stop at the lights...and whoaaaaaaa...Say hello to your loony left counterpart.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 19:24:27 GMT
And still no proof Owen Jones was attacked The Met Police confirmed that the attack took place......
|
|
|
Post by Dutchpeter on Aug 20, 2019 19:28:24 GMT
I don't think so. To me it depends on your definition of "bad". There are lots of folk in the world who would say there's nothing "bad" about being anti-gay marriage for example. I'm not saying those are "bad" people, although I would argue that that particular stance is a "bad" thing to support for a number of reasons. That's my own subjective opinion. But purely objectively there's no escaping the fact that being anti-gay marriage is a traditionally right wing social policy. It just is. Likewise on the left of the spectrum some people might be pro-mass immigration which many, particularly on here, would say is a "bad" thing to support for a number of reasons. Whether or not mass immigration is "bad" is again a subject of debate (and fuck knows there's a lot of that on here ) but again, just stating a fact it's a traditionally left wing social policy. I think maybe there are connotations to "left" and "right" wing that people don't want to be associated with, but that's a whole other issue, and doesn't affect whether something actually IS left or right wing. Castro and Guevara's murders of political enemies; left or right? Suppression of the church, homosexuals, political opposition, summary execution without trial...
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Aug 20, 2019 19:29:18 GMT
And still no proof Owen Jones was attacked The Met Police confirmed that the attack took place...... To be glib the Met Police are still working into an assumption that Maddie McCann was kidnapped. In the centre of of London I cannot believe a full blown attack on a group of 5 or so blokes took place without witnesses and cctv outside a pub at kicking our time. The attackers would have to be at least the same amount of people to risk a kicking themselves. Even if an attack did happen there is no evidence to suggest it wasn’t a routine Saturday night handbags rather than this right wing political attack he is claiming from attackers that didn’t speak. All too fucking thin for me
|
|