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Post by chigstoke on Aug 13, 2019 17:29:47 GMT
I have to go for players I've seen myself, not been blessed to have seen the likes of Conroy, Greenhoff etc... Sorenson Wilkinson - Huth - Shawcross - Higgy N'Zonzi - Delap - Whelan Arnautovic - Fuller - Hoekstra I often wonder if Sambegou hadn't have gone AWOL and kept his form up, what a potential career he could have had for us. Didn’t he score 6-7 on the bounce before doing a Houdini ? It looked like we’d signed a real goal scorer there for a brief period. He scored 8 in 10 I think before heading for the African Cup of nations. And he only cost £900,000, which seemed a bargain during his little run of goals.
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Post by wuzza on Aug 13, 2019 17:36:31 GMT
There must have been a lot of pre war players who were (in comparison with their contemporaries) better than some names quoted for the simple reason we were a top level club for many years. Anyone who only played for us in the lower leagues really can’t be considered. Biggest problem position ? - Right Back. Jackie Marsh was decent but hardly in the same class as some of the players in other positions.
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Post by dastokie on Aug 13, 2019 17:46:07 GMT
There must have been a lot of pre war players who were (in comparison with their contemporaries) better than some names quoted for the simple reason we were a top level club for many years. Anyone who only played for us in the lower leagues really can’t be considered. Biggest problem position ? - Right Back. Jackie Marsh was decent but hardly in the same class as some of the players in other positions. Seriously Hoekstra, Shtanuik, Would easily played in the top flight.
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Post by thehoof on Aug 13, 2019 17:53:03 GMT
Banks Dixon Franklin Smith Pejic
Matthews Hudson Kendall Conroy
Greenhorn Ritchie
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Post by wuzza on Aug 13, 2019 17:58:08 GMT
There must have been a lot of pre war players who were (in comparison with their contemporaries) better than some names quoted for the simple reason we were a top level club for many years. Anyone who only played for us in the lower leagues really can’t be considered. Biggest problem position ? - Right Back. Jackie Marsh was decent but hardly in the same class as some of the players in other positions. Seriously Hoekstra, Shtanuik, Would easily played in the top flight. Hoekstra at his peak may have done - but he wasn’t at his peak when he played for us and frankly a couple of wonder goals against the likes of Reading really prove nothing. Shtaniuk wasn’t in the same league as some of the names include in these lists - including one of the greatest defenders the British game has ever seen. If they didn’t do it in the red & white against top class oppo I just don’t see how they qualify.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 13, 2019 18:12:03 GMT
There must have been a lot of pre war players who were (in comparison with their contemporaries) better than some names quoted for the simple reason we were a top level club for many years. Anyone who only played for us in the lower leagues really can’t be considered. Biggest problem position ? - Right Back. Jackie Marsh was decent but hardly in the same class as some of the players in other positions. I agree. A minimum qualification has to be an international. Lower leagues ? Well Tony Allen was a second division player when he played for England. Neil Franklin is the only Stoke player ever who was an automatic first choice for England. Matthew's missed out his best years during WWII and was regularly not picked after the war, because he was "getting too old"!!!
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Post by borat on Aug 13, 2019 18:15:49 GMT
You can't put a fuller in a best ever line up, as good as he was he just didn't score enough.
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Post by AlliG on Aug 13, 2019 18:22:59 GMT
There must have been a lot of pre war players who were (in comparison with their contemporaries) better than some names quoted for the simple reason we were a top level club for many years. Anyone who only played for us in the lower leagues really can’t be considered. Biggest problem position ? - Right Back. Jackie Marsh was decent but hardly in the same class as some of the players in other positions. I agree. A minimum qualification has to be an international. Lower leagues ? Well Tony Allen was a second division player when he played for England. Neil Franklin is the only Stoke player ever who was an automatic first choice for England. Matthew's missed out his best years during WWII and was regularly not picked after the war, because he was "getting too old"!!! I am sure Mr Banks might not have agreed with that.
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Post by samstokie1 on Aug 13, 2019 18:41:48 GMT
Haugaard
Shotton Wolshit Wimmer Tymon
Sidwell Fletcher Salif Diao
Berahino Guidetti Jerome
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Post by Veritas on Aug 13, 2019 18:49:27 GMT
Based on who I have actually seen play but accept that Stan, Franklin & Nobby Steele would probably displace some of my selections
Banks
Marsh Smith Huth Pejic
Conroy Hudson Mahoney Shaqiri
Ritchie Greenhoff
Some of my personal favourite players Stein, Hoekstra etc played in the lower leagues and we have to accept they would not have stood comparison to the players listed above.
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Post by alfieph on Aug 13, 2019 18:56:16 GMT
When Neil Franklin made his first England appearance in February 1945, Stoke City were the only club in the country with three players in the England squad (Matthews, Franklin & Soo), and Freddie Steele may still have been a full international at that point were it not for the combination of serious injuries and depression. Steele scored 159 goals in 251 games for Stoke, excluding his wartime exploits, and I was told Stanley Matthews rated him as being as good as, if not better, than Tommy Lawton. Frank Soo was England's first non-white international and is still England's only international of Asian descent; Stan Mortensen described him as being 'incapable of a clumsy moment', and Franklin considered him and Matt Busby to be the two finest wing-halves he ever played with or against, better even than Joe Mercer. As an earlier poster mentioned, Soo really did lose his peak years to the war, and he left Stoke right at the end of WWII. Whilst Matthews' departure is understandably considered a key reason behind Stoke's failure to win the league title in that 1946-47 season, I do wonder if Soo sticking around for that first post-war campaign could have been just as helpful.
I may be a tad biased, but I'd suggest all four ought to make an all time Stoke City XI, and the fact that Banks, Matthews & Franklin all deserve to make all time England XI's is pretty impressive.
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Post by sheriffofrockridge on Aug 13, 2019 19:03:33 GMT
GK: Jakob Haugaard RB: Ally Pickering CB: Justin Whittle CB: Ben Petty LB: Lee Fowler RW: Sam Aiston CM: Neil MacKenzie CM: Jörg Sobiech LW: Tony Scully FW: O'Neill Donaldson FW: Dave Bamber Unbeatable!! Was Justin whittle that bad ? Technically poor but he was pretty solid, not many won an Ariel battle with him, sure we’ve had worse centre backs. Undoubtedly right but I was struggling. Did Richard Dryden play there for us? He was wank.
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Post by miltonstokienew on Aug 13, 2019 19:08:24 GMT
Was Justin whittle that bad ? Technically poor but he was pretty solid, not many won an Ariel battle with him, sure we’ve had worse centre backs. Undoubtedly right but I was struggling. Did Richard Dryden play there for us? He was wank. Keeper should be Gordon Marshall
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Post by basingstokie on Aug 13, 2019 19:20:38 GMT
I'll go with players I've seen (so basically 2000 +) Begovic Huth, Shawcross, Shtaniuk (honourable mentions to Doobs and Taggart for impact) N Zonzi, Whelan Arnie, Bojan, Shaqiri Fuller, Walters (honourable mention to Sidibe, for being the best partnership with Fuller)
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Post by serpico on Aug 13, 2019 19:26:05 GMT
Was Justin whittle that bad ? Technically poor but he was pretty solid, not many won an Ariel battle with him, sure we’ve had worse centre backs. Undoubtedly right but I was struggling. Did Richard Dryden play there for us? He was wank. Stephen tweed ? Gregg strong ?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 13, 2019 19:27:40 GMT
Banks Marsh Smith Franklin Pejic Matthews Hudson ? Conroy Ritchie Steele Struggling for a name for a more DM. Nzonzi? He’d be up there for definite. Just not sure if any of the older ones fit the bill?
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Post by sheriffofrockridge on Aug 13, 2019 19:30:42 GMT
Undoubtedly right but I was struggling. Did Richard Dryden play there for us? He was wank. Stephen tweed ? Gregg strong ? Also wank. If I could be arsed I reckon I could find 11 wank teams of 11 wank players.
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Post by 'i'mnaked' on Aug 13, 2019 19:32:29 GMT
Gordon Banks Lee Dixon Dennis Smith Neil Franklin Mick Pejic Stanley Matthews Alan Hudson Paul Bracewell Mark Chamberlain Jimmy Greenhoff John Ritchie Asmir Begovic John Marsh Alan Bloor Howard Kendall Ricardo Fuller Loving the Dixon vibe, but N'Zonzi was miles better than Bracewell. But neither as good as Beeston.
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Post by serpico on Aug 13, 2019 19:36:53 GMT
Stephen tweed ? Gregg strong ? Also wank. If I could be arsed I reckon I could find 11 wank teams of 11 wank players. Might be worth starting a wank stokeXI thread.
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Post by sheriffofrockridge on Aug 13, 2019 19:38:13 GMT
Also wank. If I could be arsed I reckon I could find 11 wank teams of 11 wank players. Might be worth starting a wank stokeXI thread. Oh am I in the wrong place mate?
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 13, 2019 19:43:32 GMT
Did this in the pub the other day. Rules were only players you've seen, and to negate us all just picking players from the three 9th place finishes, we did quality relative to the level rather than overall or players we just loved watching.
Begovic Wilkinson Shawcross Huth Higginbotham Delap Nzonzi Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic Fuller
Subs: Sorensen, Faye, Shtaniuk, Pennant, Etherington, Crouch, Stein
Reserves Butland Hoefkens Cranson Taggart Dickinson Lawrence Whelan Adam Hoekstra Sheron Thorne
Subs: Simonsen, Overson, Duberry, Gudjohnson, Keen, Tuncay, Walters
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 13, 2019 19:47:04 GMT
Did this in the other day. Rules were only players you've seen, and to negate us all just picking players from the three 9th place finishes, we did quality relative to the level rather than overall or players we just loved watching.
Begovic Wilkinson Shawcross Huth Higginbotham Delap Nzonzi Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic Fuller
Subs: Sorensen, Faye, Shtaniuk, Pennant, Etherington, Crouch, Stein
Reserves Butland Hoefkens Cranson Taggart Dickinson Lawrence Whelan Adam Hoekstra Sheron Thorne
Subs: Simonsen, Overson, Duberry, Gudjohnson, Keen, Tuncay, Walters
That’d be my starting XI but with Pieters at left back.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 13, 2019 20:02:24 GMT
I agree. A minimum qualification has to be an international. Lower leagues ? Well Tony Allen was a second division player when he played for England. Neil Franklin is the only Stoke player ever who was an automatic first choice for England. Matthew's missed out his best years during WWII and was regularly not picked after the war, because he was "getting too old"!!! I am sure Mr Banks might not have agreed with that. Gordon was a very modest man and would never have said he was "automatic first choice". There is a quote from Gordon in DVDs where he says Alf Ramsay kept players on their toes by making clear to them that they were not automatically going to be picked for the next match. I believe the quote is, when Gordon said to Alf Ramsay "See you Alf" when they parted after a match, Ramsay's reply was "Will you?" Franklin played in the days when a selection committee picked the side. They used to share caps around and often players were dropped because another player "deserved to be capped". Even the peerless Matthews did not picked continuously, but Franklin was continuously picked for a record number of consecutive times, despite the selectors habit of sharing caps around and negotiating with each other for "their man" to play. In the 1966-67 season after Banks had been in the England WC66 winning side, there were 8* internationals. Gordon played in 5 and Peter Bonetti played in 3. Gordon was the Number 1, but he was never "automatic first choice" and did not play every match for years like Franklin did. Gordon played most often in subsequent seasons but Bonetti and Shilton got games. * Alan Ball and Bobby Moore played in all 8 matches, so Ramsay did have "ever present" players.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Aug 13, 2019 20:23:19 GMT
I am sure Mr Banks might not have agreed with that. Gordon was a very modest man and would never have said he was "automatic first choice". There is a quote from Gordon in DVDs where he says Alf Ramsay kept players on their toes by making clear to them that they were not automatically going to be picked for the next match. I believe the quote is, when Gordon said to Alf Ramsay "See you Alf" when they parted after a match, Ramsay's reply was "Will you?" Franklin played in the days when a selection committee picked the side. They used to share caps around and often players were dropped because another player "deserved to be capped". Even the peerless Matthews did not picked continuously, but Franklin was continuously picked for a record number of consecutive times, despite the selectors habit of sharing caps around and negotiating with each other for "their man" to play. In the 1966-67 season after Banks had been in the England WC66 winning side, there were 8* internationals. Gordon played in 5 and Peter Bonetti played in 3. Gordon was the Number 1, but he was never "automatic first choice" and did not play every match for years like Franklin did. Gordon played most often in subsequent seasons but Bonetti and Shilton got games. * Alan Ball and Bobby Moore played in all 8 matches, so Ramsay did have "ever present" players. Didn't Banks play in every game of the World Cup? I can see your argument above but it's surely a bit pedantic. Banks was undoubtedly England's Number 1.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Aug 13, 2019 20:35:56 GMT
Didn’t he score 6-7 on the bounce before doing a Houdini ? It looked like we’d signed a real goal scorer there for a brief period. He scored 8 in 10 I think before heading for the African Cup of nations. And he only cost £900,000, which seemed a bargain during his little run of goals. We turned down an offer around £3m for him. That'd be close to our record signing in today's money. Considering our record signings, we were due a dud with our record signing (it just rubs it in that Berahino and Wimmer came along since). Bangoura, Kitson and Imbula are the only duds from this lot: £100,000 to Birmingham City for Jimmy Greenhoff £240,000 to Chelsea for Alan Hudson (British transfer record) £325,000 to Leicester City for Peter Shilton (world record for a goalkeeper) £350,000 to Manchester United for Sammy McIlroy £450,000 to Sheffield Wednesday for Ian Cranson £600,000 to Orgryte for Brynjar Gunnarsson Undisclosed to Standard Leige for Sambegou Bangoura £1,000,000 to Manchester United for Ryan Shawcross £1,200,000 to Crystal Palace for Leon Cort £5,500,000 to Reading for Dave Kitson £5,000,000 to Middlesbrough for Robert Huth £8,000,000 to Sunderland for Kenwyne Jones £10,000,000 to Tottenham Hotspur for Peter Crouch (fee could rise to £12,000,000) £12,000,000 to Inter Milan for Xherdan Shaqiri £18,300,000 to Porto for Giannelli Imbula Some would harshly say Jones, but he was good for a while, and we swapped him for Odemwingie who was awesome until the injury. There's a good team with some Pulis-style square pegs in round holes: Shilton Cranson Shawcross Huth Cort Shaqiri McIlroy Gunnarsson Hudson Greenhoff Crouch Top-notch at set pieces.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 14, 2019 9:02:36 GMT
When Neil Franklin made his first England appearance in February 1945, Stoke City were the only club in the country with three players in the England squad (Matthews, Franklin & Soo), and Freddie Steele may still have been a full international at that point were it not for the combination of serious injuries and depression. Steele scored 159 goals in 251 games for Stoke, excluding his wartime exploits, and I was told Stanley Matthews rated him as being as good as, if not better, than Tommy Lawton. Frank Soo was England's first non-white international and is still England's only international of Asian descent; Stan Mortensen described him as being 'incapable of a clumsy moment', and Franklin considered him and Matt Busby to be the two finest wing-halves he ever played with or against, better even than Joe Mercer. As an earlier poster mentioned, Soo really did lose his peak years to the war, and he left Stoke right at the end of WWII. Whilst Matthews' departure is understandably considered a key reason behind Stoke's failure to win the league title in that 1946-47 season, I do wonder if Soo sticking around for that first post-war campaign could have been just as helpful. I may be a tad biased, but I'd suggest all four ought to make an all time Stoke City XI, and the fact that Banks, Matthews & Franklin all deserve to make all time England XI's is pretty impressive. Thanks, that post is really interesting. My old man also told me what a good player Frankie Soo was, although sometimes over looked next to the peerless Neil Franklin. I certainly agree and have posted before that Banks, Franklin & Matthews would make an all time England XI, but there would also be a strong case for Freddie Steele, who despite relatively few appearances still holds the goals per games record I believe. The most difficult position in the Stoke XI for me was the striker alongside Steele. Very hard to leave out Big John, but I felt they were too alike. Jimmy got the nod because I can imagine how he would complement Hudson behind him and Steele ahead of him perfectly.
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Post by alfieph on Aug 14, 2019 9:26:18 GMT
When Neil Franklin made his first England appearance in February 1945, Stoke City were the only club in the country with three players in the England squad (Matthews, Franklin & Soo), and Freddie Steele may still have been a full international at that point were it not for the combination of serious injuries and depression. Steele scored 159 goals in 251 games for Stoke, excluding his wartime exploits, and I was told Stanley Matthews rated him as being as good as, if not better, than Tommy Lawton. Frank Soo was England's first non-white international and is still England's only international of Asian descent; Stan Mortensen described him as being 'incapable of a clumsy moment', and Franklin considered him and Matt Busby to be the two finest wing-halves he ever played with or against, better even than Joe Mercer. As an earlier poster mentioned, Soo really did lose his peak years to the war, and he left Stoke right at the end of WWII. Whilst Matthews' departure is understandably considered a key reason behind Stoke's failure to win the league title in that 1946-47 season, I do wonder if Soo sticking around for that first post-war campaign could have been just as helpful. I may be a tad biased, but I'd suggest all four ought to make an all time Stoke City XI, and the fact that Banks, Matthews & Franklin all deserve to make all time England XI's is pretty impressive. Thanks, that post is really interesting. My old man also told me what a good player Frankie Soo was, although sometimes over looked next to the peerless Neil Franklin. I certainly agree and have posted before that Banks, Franklin & Matthews would make an all time England XI, but there would also be a strong case for Freddie Steele, who despite relatively few appearances still holds the goals per games record I believe. The most difficult position in the Stoke XI for me was the striker alongside Steele. Very hard to leave out Big John, but I felt they were too alike. Jimmy got the nod because I can imagine how he would complement Hudson behind him and Steele ahead of him perfectly. Steele's England career spanned just seven months, but in that time he scored 8 goals from 6 caps, averaging a goal every 68 minutes. That was in 1937, when Steele was aged just 23, but that same year he announced his intentions to retire from football (a decision he later reversed). Whilst very impressive, it isn't quite the record in terms of England goals to game ratio, with that record belonging to Middlesbrough great George Camsell who bagged a remarkable 18 goals from just 9 caps, scoring in every international he played in.
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Post by The Stubborn Optimist on Aug 14, 2019 9:34:38 GMT
It's probably an age thing, not many who saw him play for Stoke are likely to be Oatcake regulars, but I'm surprised there's no mention of Jimmy McIlroy.
I saw him right at the end of his time at Stoke and don't remember it that clearly. However my grandad, who'd followed Stoke from about 19 nought spit, was adamant that Jimmy Mac was quite simply one of the finest players he ever saw play for Stoke. From what I've read about Jimmy Mac I suspect grandad wasn't wrong.
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Post by boweryboy on Aug 14, 2019 9:58:56 GMT
The team that will always be remembered for winning the League Cup obviously !!!
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 14, 2019 10:24:51 GMT
Thanks, that post is really interesting. My old man also told me what a good player Frankie Soo was, although sometimes over looked next to the peerless Neil Franklin. I certainly agree and have posted before that Banks, Franklin & Matthews would make an all time England XI, but there would also be a strong case for Freddie Steele, who despite relatively few appearances still holds the goals per games record I believe. The most difficult position in the Stoke XI for me was the striker alongside Steele. Very hard to leave out Big John, but I felt they were too alike. Jimmy got the nod because I can imagine how he would complement Hudson behind him and Steele ahead of him perfectly. Steele's England career spanned just seven months, but in that time he scored 8 goals from 6 caps, averaging a goal every 68 minutes. That was in 1937, when Steele was aged just 23, but that same year he announced his intentions to retire from football (a decision he later reversed). Whilst very impressive, it isn't quite the record in terms of England goals to game ratio, with that record belonging to Middlesbrough great George Camsell who bagged a remarkable 18 goals from just 9 caps, scoring in every international he played in. Fantastic, thanks again. I think I know a bit about football, but I'd never even heard of George Camsell. Encyclopaedic knowledge! I would have guessed that Jimmy Greaves, Ramsey's great sacrifice, would have had the best goals to games ratio. Also, I didn't realise (a) that Freddie Steele scored so many goals for Stoke, and (b) that his ratio was so good - way better than 1 in 2.
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