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Post by dreamtheater on Aug 11, 2019 13:07:22 GMT
We did actually ( play pretty well )
could've - should've been out of sight really
Stoke City looked like a proper football team - for the first time in a very, very long time.
Game appeared to turn on a substitution after the hour mark made, by an inexperienced manager
a real shame.
but much - much, better
and Woods ? absolutely light years better than Cousins - that much, pretty obvious really
and as said yesterday, amazing - wonderful even, away support
and Hogan and Gregory should be our starting front two
FIRST TIME I'VE BEEN OPTIMISTIC SEEING THEM, FOR A BLOODY LONG TIME !
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Post by stokerstayinup on Aug 11, 2019 13:11:52 GMT
You don't think hitting the woodwork twice in 10 minutes is unlucky.Right ok.Just so you're aware just because you don't doesn't mean other people can't. Hitting the woodwork is a shot off target. You’re saying that we had 2 shots off target in ten mins and it’s bad luck? In that case Gregory’s ballooned shot was bad luck too. Sometimes shots that hit the woodwork(which are off target) actually end up in the net.Gregory's shot over the bar was a poor miss.
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Post by dreamtheater on Aug 11, 2019 13:14:24 GMT
He was stretching and under close challenge to a ball running away/ out from his stride- a miss - but not a majorly bad one
move on people !
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Post by StatesideStokie on Aug 11, 2019 14:02:07 GMT
Not wanting to be negative about everything, fella. I just disagree with your outlook on today’s game. I’m well aware we’re no longer a Premier League team, and followed Stoke long before our ten years stint in the top flight. You’re right in saying we’ve been spoiled a bit over the last decade or so, but we’ve also watched us turn out complete dross for the last three years. I’m absolutely behind the team, I want nothing more than for Jones to be successful, but I’m also not going to pretend like everything in the garden is roses right now. It’s clearly not. It’s still early days, but let’s not pretend that today was some massive improvement over what we’ve seen so far from the Jones revolution. He’s done a lot of talking, but he’s yet to back it up with anything tangible on the pitch. His record so far has been diabolical, and while people recognize that he inherited a shit show, there has to be some indication of improvement sooner rather than later - for me, today didn’t really provide much in the way of improvement at all. There were some signs that were moving in the right direction, but were still looking disjointed and lacking any real ideas. We’re not going to progress by playing the “what if” game - we need to recognize the issues quickly and address them. We’re not scoring enough, we’re not creating enough, and we continue to concede sloppy goals. That’s not being negative, it’s stating the facts. Just my opinion, and that’s what this place is for, right? You sound pretty negative. And your opinion of today's game is very negative. Anyway, it sort of feels as if each of your posts makes sense when read in isolation, but every time I raise a point about x, you subtly shift the focus to y and so we never get anywhere. I think you have mistakenly gotten the impression that I think 'everything in the garden is rosy.' I definitely do not think that. Make no mistake, we are in deep shit right now. I'll skip to what I think is the main point of difference. ''for me, today didn’t really provide much in the way of improvement at all.'' I really find it hard to believe that you saw no improvement in today's performance in comparison to what we saw last week. That is genuinely excessively negative. ''We’re not scoring enough, we’re not creating enough, and we continue to concede sloppy goals. That’s not being negative, it’s stating the facts.'' Those aren't facts though are they? It is a fact we are not scoring enough. It is not a fact that we are not creating enough. That is the crux of the disagreement here. I think we created enough today, we just did not convert. On another day, at least one more of those goes in. So I don't think you are stating the facts, I think you are putting a negative spin on everything. I agree regarding the defensive lapses. But you cannot have it both ways. You cannot invoke Jones poor record last season on the one hand, while ignoring the fact that we actually looked defensively solid under him until the last two games. And yeah sure I am not stopping you having your opinion. But if we are talking about the match today, it is my opinion that you are talking negative bollocks We’re clearly not going to agree on this, and that’s ok.
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Post by StatesideStokie on Aug 11, 2019 14:05:26 GMT
I tried to put the milk in the fridge earlier. I narrowly missed the fridge and it smashed all over the floor. How unlucky can you get. Sign him up!
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Post by StatesideStokie on Aug 11, 2019 14:09:57 GMT
And if we lose the next five games on the bounce? I appreciate your post is heartfelt but in reality the sentiment means absolutely zip ... it's all about results. I don't think we will lose the next five, but even then I wouldn't sack him. I wouldn't be reviewing his position unless we were adrift at the bottom in December which, again, I think is highly unlikely. That’s where we’re setting the bar? All is good unless we’re cut adrift at the bottom of the table come Christmas? I think even Jones would feel insulted if that’s the measure of expectation for this season.
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Post by zerps on Aug 11, 2019 14:13:04 GMT
I don't think we will lose the next five, but even then I wouldn't sack him. I wouldn't be reviewing his position unless we were adrift at the bottom in December which, again, I think is highly unlikely. That’s where we’re setting the bar? All is good unless we’re cut adrift at the bottom of the table come Christmas? I think even Jones would feel insulted if that’s the measure of expectation for this season. You don’t seem to understand the enormity of the complete squad rebuild that’s underway. It will take years.
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Post by wearepremierleague on Aug 11, 2019 14:16:44 GMT
We played decent in spells. But for perspective we were playing against absolute shite, favourites to go down. We made Jonny Williams look like pissing Messi
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Post by wrexhamstokie90 on Aug 11, 2019 14:19:31 GMT
We played decent in spells. But for perspective we were playing against absolute shite, favourites to go down. We made Jonny Williams look like pissing Messi we haven't got the fight in the midfield hopefully etebo will make the difference because Allen is shocking teams just play through the middle easy every week
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Post by str8outtahampton on Aug 11, 2019 14:43:30 GMT
I tried to put the milk in the fridge earlier. I narrowly missed the fridge and it smashed all over the floor. How unlucky can you get. Weirdly, that is the synopsis (and indeed the entirety of the action) of a 1962 film made by Jean-Luc Godard. "Le Lait et le Frigo". It lasts 4 hours. Sometimes watching SCFC poses the sort of existential question explored by Godard, Truffaut, Chabrol and others. In any event, back to your bad luck. Let's hope you didn't shed any tears. Because there would have been no point.
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Post by FrankButcher on Aug 11, 2019 14:59:45 GMT
After re watching the highlights of yesterday's game I think we were better than the QPR performance inbetween both boxes but defensively we were woeful all 3 goals were so avoidable.
Lyle Taylor should not have had the time to cut inside and get a shot away only batth was jockeying him while Smith just stood there and turned his back to the shot while Woods hopelessly ran back towards his own goal why weren't these players throwing themselves in front of that shot to block or even just simply close Taylor down?? Woeful defending!
The second goal was just as bad ince and Smith both let the Charlton player stroll straight into our box and pull the ball back to Aneke (who by the way had 5 defenders in front of him who didn't even bother to close down or attempt to block the shot) to strike the ball home to make it 2-1.
Third goal was short low corner played in flicked on by a Charlton player and the ball falls to Gallagher who had 3 defenders in front of him but still he manages to get a shot away and score none of the defenders again bothered to mark or close the player down or block the shot.
School boy defending if we continue to defend like that we will carrying on conceding goals for fun.
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Post by harlequin on Aug 11, 2019 15:12:58 GMT
You don't think hitting the woodwork twice in 10 minutes is unlucky.Right ok.Just so you're aware just because you don't doesn't mean other people can't. It’s shit finishing is it not? Something we’re famed for..... It really isn't. Not many shit finishers on that list. You could argue they get more chances but so do others at the same clubs. It has connotations with being unlucky for a reason. You hit it close to the crossbar to avoid the keeper. It’s a question of centimeters and falls in margins you don’t expect the player to control, unless you’re Ronaldinho.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 11, 2019 15:17:02 GMT
It’s shit finishing is it not? Something we’re famed for..... It really isn't. Not many shit finishers on that list. You could argue they get more chances but so do others at the same clubs. It has connotations with being unlucky for reason. You hit it close to the crossbar to avoid the keeper. It’s a question of centimeters and falls in margins you don’t expect the player to control, unless you’re Ronaldinho.
If it’s Lee Gregory doing it, it’s not bad luck. It’s a shot off target, which is what we do.
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 11, 2019 16:24:10 GMT
That’s where we’re setting the bar? All is good unless we’re cut adrift at the bottom of the table come Christmas? I think even Jones would feel insulted if that’s the measure of expectation for this season. You don’t seem to understand the enormity of the complete squad rebuild that’s underway. It will take years. It shouldn't take years, but I think it could be a couple more transfer windows. We're getting there already; I'd say in Lindsay, Tommy, Etebo and possibly Gregory that rebuild is over a third of the way there. Results need to come and we shouldn't tolerate 3 losses from our first 4 games, never mind 5 losses on the bounce from now. But LLWL is different from LLLW. Even if we lose those first 3, we need to see shoots of improvement. QPR was diabolical, but although we were the architects of our own downfall against Charlton, we played a lot better. As zerps said, this is a rebuild and though I believe this team will begin to string results together very soon, any loss needs to be taken within the context of a rebuild. Whether those losses come against Charlton or Derby is irrelevant. Even if we lose against Derby, that can be smoothed over if we play better than we did against Charlton. What I won't tolerate are more performances like that against QPR.
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 11, 2019 16:40:57 GMT
We certainly were the better team against Charlton, but unfortunately not where it counts, in both boxes!
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Post by tqstokie on Aug 11, 2019 16:41:18 GMT
IMHO if we don't defend better and take up better defensive positions we will continue to concede soft goals. The defense must be better. When going forward we must take every opportunity to get the ball into the box and stop a lot of this backwards and sideways stuff, where we miss an attacking opportunity by playing the ball back to the halfway line to switch the point of attack.
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Post by Ron on Aug 11, 2019 17:50:49 GMT
I very rarely post on here but can’t help but read daily. Yesterday was yet again another absolute shit show. How any can defend it I don’t know. We have a Goalkeeper in poor form, strikers who missed sitters (Hogan should bury his chance that hit the bar) and a team that collectively fall asleeep when defending. The goals we conceded were all totally avoidable. Again we looked like we could concede at any moment. The diamond leaves us repeatedly exposed. To top it all off the manager doesn’t help by taking off the man who was kind of keeping us ticking in woods. Why change shape? Just bizarre. His record is embarrassing. I don’t know how anyone can defend it. Remember we shipped goals for fun too in the last few games last season. I want us to do well. Of course I do. As do many others. But the truth is we are hopeless at the moment. The Ostriches amongst the fan base keep telling those like me to wind their necks in. The truth hurts.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 11, 2019 18:28:58 GMT
We look like a pub team for all those goals conceded. I see charlton had a chance to score another one too.
We look slow and passive on all the goals. If we defend like that we'll lose every game.
Its awful awful stuff against a team I think will go down.
There are no positives
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Post by wilcopotter on Aug 11, 2019 19:46:51 GMT
Not sure if it’s me, but I honestly don’t know what Clucas did yesterday, completely ineffective imo.
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Post by FrankButcher on Aug 11, 2019 20:32:26 GMT
We look like a pub team for all those goals conceded. I see charlton had a chance to score another one too. We look slow and passive on all the goals. If we defend like that we'll lose every game. Its awful awful stuff against a team I think will go down. There are no positives Spot on regarding our defending Glasgow it really was amateurish I don't know how people can say we played well defensively at all it has to improve drastically and quick!
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 11, 2019 20:38:38 GMT
I tried to put the milk in the fridge earlier. I narrowly missed the fridge and it smashed all over the floor. How unlucky can you get. Weirdly, that is the synopsis (and indeed the entirety of the action) of a 1962 film made by Jean-Luc Godard. "Le Lait et le Frigo". It lasts 4 hours. Sometimes watching SCFC poses the sort of existential question explored by Godard, Truffaut, Chabrol and others. In any event, back to your bad luck. Let's hope you didn't shed any tears. Because there would have been no point. Is there any tits in it??? Those cheeky french chappies and their films!!! 😜
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Post by philm87 on Aug 11, 2019 20:46:14 GMT
I very rarely post on here but can’t help but read daily. Yesterday was yet again another absolute shit show. How any can defend it I don’t know. We have a Goalkeeper in poor form, strikers who missed sitters (Hogan should bury his chance that hit the bar) and a team that collectively fall asleeep when defending. The goals we conceded were all totally avoidable. Again we looked like we could concede at any moment. The diamond leaves us repeatedly exposed. To top it all off the manager doesn’t help by taking off the man who was kind of keeping us ticking in woods. Why change shape? Just bizarre. His record is embarrassing. I don’t know how anyone can defend it. Remember we shipped goals for fun too in the last few games last season. I want us to do well. Of course I do. As do many others. But the truth is we are hopeless at the moment. The Ostriches amongst the fan base keep telling those like me to wind their necks in. The truth hurts. I think most of your points have already been addressed on here, but here are some facts. Yesterday, as the away team, we had 54% possession, 12 shots with 3 on target (two against the woodwork). Our opponents had a mere five shots and three on target. At the end of last season our last five fixtures were as follows: Stoke 2 - 2 Rotherham Middlesborough 1 - 0 Stoke Stoke 2 - 2 Norwich Millwall 0 - 0 Stoke Stoke 2 - 2 Sheff United. Nothing spectacular there, but there is no way that counts 'shipping goals for fun.' These are just facts. Obviously we can disagree over the interpretation of the facts but you cannot really argue with any of the above.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 11, 2019 20:49:52 GMT
That’s where we’re setting the bar? All is good unless we’re cut adrift at the bottom of the table come Christmas? I think even Jones would feel insulted if that’s the measure of expectation for this season. You don’t seem to understand the enormity of the complete squad rebuild that’s underway. It will take years. I doubt PC is thinking like that.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 11, 2019 20:54:45 GMT
You don’t seem to understand the enormity of the complete squad rebuild that’s underway. It will take years. It shouldn't take years, but I think it could be a couple more transfer windows. We're getting there already; I'd say in Lindsay, Tommy, Etebo and possibly Gregory that rebuild is over a third of the way there. Results need to come and we shouldn't tolerate 3 losses from our first 4 games, never mind 5 losses on the bounce from now. But LLWL is different from LLLW. Even if we lose those first 3, we need to see shoots of improvement. QPR was diabolical, but although we were the architects of our own downfall against Charlton, we played a lot better. As zerps said, this is a rebuild and though I believe this team will begin to string results together very soon, any loss needs to be taken within the context of a rebuild. Whether those losses come against Charlton or Derby is irrelevant. Even if we lose against Derby, that can be smoothed over if we play better than we did against Charlton. What I won't tolerate are more performances like that against QPR. When you say you 'won't tolerate' what will be your reaction if there are QPR type performances, out of interest?
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 11, 2019 21:37:09 GMT
It shouldn't take years, but I think it could be a couple more transfer windows. We're getting there already; I'd say in Lindsay, Tommy, Etebo and possibly Gregory that rebuild is over a third of the way there. Results need to come and we shouldn't tolerate 3 losses from our first 4 games, never mind 5 losses on the bounce from now. But LLWL is different from LLLW. Even if we lose those first 3, we need to see shoots of improvement. QPR was diabolical, but although we were the architects of our own downfall against Charlton, we played a lot better. As zerps said, this is a rebuild and though I believe this team will begin to string results together very soon, any loss needs to be taken within the context of a rebuild. Whether those losses come against Charlton or Derby is irrelevant. Even if we lose against Derby, that can be smoothed over if we play better than we did against Charlton. What I won't tolerate are more performances like that against QPR. When you say you 'won't tolerate' what will be your reaction if there are QPR type performances, out of interest? Then with a heavy heart, I'll be thinking the job is too big for NJ after all. The key thing for me is signs of improvement. I can begrudgingly accept a bad at the office if we made enough chances to win. If it looks as if the players aren't playing for the manager or look lost at sea for a number of games, then it's time to accept a change is required. As it stands, NJ still has me onside.
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Post by swampySCFC on Aug 11, 2019 21:58:19 GMT
I very rarely post on here but can’t help but read daily. Yesterday was yet again another absolute shit show. How any can defend it I don’t know. We have a Goalkeeper in poor form, strikers who missed sitters (Hogan should bury his chance that hit the bar) and a team that collectively fall asleeep when defending. The goals we conceded were all totally avoidable. Again we looked like we could concede at any moment. The diamond leaves us repeatedly exposed. To top it all off the manager doesn’t help by taking off the man who was kind of keeping us ticking in woods. Why change shape? Just bizarre. His record is embarrassing. I don’t know how anyone can defend it. Remember we shipped goals for fun too in the last few games last season. I want us to do well. Of course I do. As do many others. But the truth is we are hopeless at the moment. The Ostriches amongst the fan base keep telling those like me to wind their necks in. The truth hurts. I think most of your points have already been addressed on here, but here are some facts. Yesterday, as the away team, we had 54% possession, 12 shots with 3 on target (two against the woodwork). Our opponents had a mere five shots and three on target. At the end of last season our last five fixtures were as follows: Stoke 2 - 2 Rotherham Middlesborough 1 - 0 Stoke Stoke 2 - 2 Norwich Millwall 0 - 0 Stoke Stoke 2 - 2 Sheff United. Nothing spectacular there, but there is no way that counts 'shipping goals for fun.' These are just facts. Obviously we can disagree over the interpretation of the facts but you cannot really argue with any of the above. Shipping 3 at newly promoted Charlton isnt acceptable given the last time we scored 4
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 2:12:58 GMT
You don’t seem to understand the enormity of the complete squad rebuild that’s underway. It will take years. I doubt PC is thinking like that. He is. Or Jones would not have been hired to do the complete overhaul.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 12, 2019 9:35:52 GMT
Talking to a Derby fan who said Derby looked like a really good team, passing the ball well til they got into the box. Sounds just like Stoke even down to them being reliant on Lawrence scoring goals from outside the area much like we seem to need Ince. Main difference seems to come down to luck which they no doubt had under Lampard. Perhaps luck is linked to confidence and we need some of both before we start winning.
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