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Post by redwhite on Aug 11, 2019 7:23:25 GMT
I don’t know. Search out and seek the answers from professional football people who have chosen him to play consistently at different levels of professional league and international level football. Thats of course unless you know better and can put forward an alternative debatable and sensible discussion. I take it you never had a problem with Ryan Shotton being played as a winger for a season then?
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 11, 2019 7:34:52 GMT
Joe Allen's been here for a few years now and, yes, his arrival coincided with a downturn in our fortunes. However, you've got to be a complete simpleton to conclude that he's the main reason for what's happened to our club. Every season he's been here, Allen's been player of the season or close to it. He has poor games sometimes (who doesn't) but there's a reason why every manager we have keeps picking him. It seems fashionable on here to slag him off at the moment, but I honestly think it's a classic case of familiarity breeding contempt. Allen, for me, is still one of the players we need to build around. Incidentally, I thought he was really good yesterday UNTIL the switch. Since his arrival, we have seen 4 managers Totally new defence Total new midfield And total new forward line If that's not building around I don't know what is, apparently it's everyone's fault bar Allen
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 11, 2019 7:38:46 GMT
Joe Allen's been here for a few years now and, yes, his arrival coincided with a downturn in our fortunes. However, you've got to be a complete simpleton to conclude that he's the main reason for what's happened to our club. Every season he's been here, Allen's been player of the season or close to it. He has poor games sometimes (who doesn't) but there's a reason why every manager we have keeps picking him. It seems fashionable on here to slag him off at the moment, but I honestly think it's a classic case of familiarity breeding contempt. Allen, for me, is still one of the players we need to build around. Incidentally, I thought he was really good yesterday UNTIL the switch. Since his arrival, we have seen 4 managers Totally new defence Total new midfield And total new forward line If that's not building around I don't know what is, apparently it's everyone's fault bar Allen That £18m we spent on Wimmer, Imbula, the berahino saga, Jese, Afobe, all the shit signings, all of Hughes' tactical fuckwittery, appointing a numpty like Lambert, Rowett wasting a fuckload of money...all Joe Allen's fault.
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 11, 2019 7:40:46 GMT
Since his arrival, we have seen 4 managers Totally new defence Total new midfield And total new forward line If that's not building around I don't know what is, apparently it's everyone's fault bar Allen That £18m we spent on Wimmer, Imbula, the berahino saga, Jese, Afobe, all the shit signings, all of Hughes' tactical fuckwittery, appointing a numpty like Lambert, Rowett wasting a fuckload of money...all Joe Allen's fault. He's part of the fuckwittery
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 11, 2019 7:46:32 GMT
That £18m we spent on Wimmer, Imbula, the berahino saga, Jese, Afobe, all the shit signings, all of Hughes' tactical fuckwittery, appointing a numpty like Lambert, Rowett wasting a fuckload of money...all Joe Allen's fault. He's part of the fuckwittery Not going to waste my time arguing about it. Just think scapegoating Allen is a case of 2+2=5.
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 11, 2019 7:49:15 GMT
He's part of the fuckwittery Not going to waste my time arguing about it. Just think scapegoating Allen is a case of 2+2=5. And suggesting we build around him is totally unfathomable, idiotic and damn right lunacy
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Joe Allen
Aug 11, 2019 8:04:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by Rick Grimes on Aug 11, 2019 8:04:28 GMT
I thought Allen did well yesterday before Woods went off. I can’t wait for Etebo to come back into the side and when he does it won’t be Allen that I want replacing it will be Clucas.
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Post by deadwait on Aug 11, 2019 10:28:38 GMT
Lanky, sorry no one as answered your question. "What does Joe Allen bring to the team". I will start with enthusiasm, you get 90 minutes of it. I don't agree that he hides. When we are attacking, and team mates are motionless, he is continually finding good space. Try and look for it !. He never gives opponents time on the ball and is a nightmare for opponents to keep up with. If he were playing against us I guarantee we would be envious. Hope that helps ?.
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Joe Allen
Aug 11, 2019 10:32:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 11, 2019 10:32:28 GMT
Joe Allen's been here for a few years now and, yes, his arrival coincided with a downturn in our fortunes. However, you've got to be a complete simpleton to conclude that he's the main reason for what's happened to our club. Every season he's been here, Allen's been player of the season or close to it. He has poor games sometimes (who doesn't) but there's a reason why every manager we have keeps picking him. It seems fashionable on here to slag him off at the moment, but I honestly think it's a classic case of familiarity breeding contempt. Allen, for me, is still one of the players we need to build around. Incidentally, I thought he was really good yesterday UNTIL the switch. Again, I’ve rarely seen people say he is the main problem. But because of the main problems I think the potential problem he causes the midfield in terms of completely unbalancing it flies under the radar. There’s nothing, stats wise or in terms of intangibles that he excels at. Indeed the stats show him to be an average midfielder for this league, nothing more. The best of a bad bunch? Well so was Afobe in terms of. strikers last season. He certainly wasn’t allowed to get away with it like Allen does. There’s certainly nothing to justify him playing all bar 8 minutes of the season as he did last year.
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Joe Allen
Aug 11, 2019 10:36:43 GMT
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 11, 2019 10:36:43 GMT
Lanky, sorry no one as answered your question. "What does Joe Allen bring to the team". I will start with enthusiasm, you get 90 minutes of it. I don't agree that he hides. When we are attacking, and team mates are motionless, he is continually finding good space. Try and look for it !. He never gives opponents time on the ball and is a nightmare for opponents to keep up with. If he were playing against us I guarantee we would be envious. Hope that helps ?. If harrying opponents consisted of more than standing 3 metres away I’d concur, as is he does give his opponents time on the ball. The second goal yesterday is a perfect example of him pressing in a half arsed manner. Gets caught in no man’s land rather than simply trusting the defensive aspects of the formation (to pick up the players around the one you are pressing).
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Joe Allen
Aug 11, 2019 10:38:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 11, 2019 10:38:01 GMT
Joe Allen's been here for a few years now and, yes, his arrival coincided with a downturn in our fortunes. However, you've got to be a complete simpleton to conclude that he's the main reason for what's happened to our club. Every season he's been here, Allen's been player of the season or close to it. He has poor games sometimes (who doesn't) but there's a reason why every manager we have keeps picking him. It seems fashionable on here to slag him off at the moment, but I honestly think it's a classic case of familiarity breeding contempt. Allen, for me, is still one of the players we need to build around. Incidentally, I thought he was really good yesterday UNTIL the switch. So in that time when we haven’t had a midfield, he hasn’t been an issue? The two things aren’t a coincidence.
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Joe Allen
Aug 11, 2019 10:40:35 GMT
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Post by ceejays on Aug 11, 2019 10:40:35 GMT
Allen is imho over rated. His main problem is he’s so small that he is dispossessed easily simply through physicality. He runs around a lot but similar to watching ladsanddads. His positional play is dire. How on earth he gets MOTM defeats me. He’s mr undroppabble.
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 11, 2019 10:54:12 GMT
Etebo couldn't come back quick enough. He must have something in his contract that stipulates he has to play? Awful. Again. The contractual obligation has been mentioned a few times, and I want to focus on that. If this is true, then Joe is a complete and utter cunt and Scholes is a clueless dickhead for agreeing to this. Whether you're Joe 'Xavi' Allen or Xavi himself, no player should ever be guaranteed a starting spot. It completely undermines team spirit. Can you imagine what it does to the morale of someone like Woods, who plays well as a single DM and gets subbed to be replaced by Joe in that same position, who has been running around like a headless chicken all game?! Joe himself is an intelligent guy and he himself must know his performances were lacklustre last year and he has been dire the two games so far this season. He must know that he should have been benched many a time. But he knows he's safe, and has no incentive to up his game and try harder. If he had a bone of decency, he would agree to have that clause removed and work hard to be picked on merit alone. NJ would have been made aware of this clause when he he was appointed and probably thought that's not a problem for someone of Joe's pedigree, but now realising how inept and useless Joe is in any position you deploy him, his owns plans and tactics are suffering. If we can all see it made more sense to take Joe off yesterday, then I can't imagine NJ would have thought the same. I really hope we made every effort possible to try and sell Joe over the summer. Next weekend is going to very telling. Surely Etebo will be back on the right of midfield and if Joe is on the left, or even god forbid in DM if NJ wants Clucas on the left, then Joe is screwing us over.
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Post by wrexhamstokie90 on Aug 11, 2019 14:34:50 GMT
keeping Allen an not signing romaine sawyers is one of the worst decisions at stoke for many a year
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 13, 2019 21:55:35 GMT
I hope we continue with two sitting midfielders, and not play Joe Allen.
Tonight sounded like we never lost too much control in midfield. When Joe is playing there are chasms all over the place.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 13, 2019 22:01:34 GMT
I hope we continue with two sitting midfielders, and not play Joe Allen. Tonight sounded like we never lost too much control in midfield. When Joe is playing there are chasms all over the place. I hope so, too. I would stick with 3-5-2 as well. So it's Joe in the diamond, then!
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Joe Allen
Aug 13, 2019 22:44:59 GMT
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Post by potterpaul on Aug 13, 2019 22:44:59 GMT
Cup games are the only games he has missed in the last 3 seasons
So I wouldn't read too much into it.
Id love him to sit out for decent amount of games.
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Joe Allen
Aug 14, 2019 14:44:16 GMT
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Post by ceejays on Aug 14, 2019 14:44:16 GMT
Interesting that he was doing weight training before the warm up in full kit. There was no need for him to be there? Could have had night off I suppose. No doubt about his commitment though I along with many others consider his positional play dire
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Post by maine on Aug 14, 2019 16:30:38 GMT
Has anyone actually considered that his managers may have encouraged or even instructed him to use his exceptional stamina to fill in spaces left by his team-mates? Welsh fans don't seem to criticize him for poor positional sense I don't think. How many 'dislikes' will accrue for this dissenting opinion I wonder?
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Joe Allen
Aug 14, 2019 16:41:15 GMT
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 14, 2019 16:41:15 GMT
Has anyone actually considered that his managers may have encouraged or even instructed him to use his exceptional stamina to fill in spaces left by his team-mates? Welsh fans don't seem to criticize him for poor positional sense I don't think. How many 'dislikes' will accrue for this dissenting opinion I wonder? No it's a fair point. He's brilliant for Wales. He plays far more conservatively for them. There's no reason why he couldn't improve our midfield by doing what woods did last night and even better. But I've never seen him do that for stoke and I'm tired of trying to work out why
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Post by serpico on Aug 14, 2019 16:47:40 GMT
Obviously it’s not all down to him, his arrival did coincide with what would turn out to be a string of colossally shite decisions, really it’s the player recruitment team that’s to blame for the decline after that 3rd Hughes season not joe Allen, all started by not properly replacing ARnautavic and then not doing due diligence on certain players, it’s like we went out of our way to find the biggest mercenaries and dick heads on offer and signed them all.
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Joe Allen
Aug 14, 2019 17:05:17 GMT
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Post by potterspele on Aug 14, 2019 17:05:17 GMT
Etebo couldn't come back quick enough. He must have something in his contract that stipulates he has to play? Awful. Again. The contractual obligation has been mentioned a few times, and I want to focus on that. If this is true, then Joe is a complete and utter cunt and Scholes is a clueless dickhead for agreeing to this. Whether you're Joe 'Xavi' Allen or Xavi himself, no player should ever be guaranteed a starting spot. It completely undermines team spirit. Can you imagine what it does to the morale of someone like Woods, who plays well as a single DM and gets subbed to be replaced by Joe in that same position, who has been running around like a headless chicken all game?! Joe himself is an intelligent guy and he himself must know his performances were lacklustre last year and he has been dire the two games so far this season. He must know that he should have been benched many a time. But he knows he's safe, and has no incentive to up his game and try harder. If he had a bone of decency, he would agree to have that clause removed and work hard to be picked on merit alone. NJ would have been made aware of this clause when he he was appointed and probably thought that's not a problem for someone of Joe's pedigree, but now realising how inept and useless Joe is in any position you deploy him, his owns plans and tactics are suffering. If we can all see it made more sense to take Joe off yesterday, then I can't imagine NJ would have thought the same. I really hope we made every effort possible to try and sell Joe over the summer. Next weekend is going to very telling. Surely Etebo will be back on the right of midfield and if Joe is on the left, or even god forbid in DM if NJ wants Clucas on the left, then Joe is screwing us over. I'm sure the origin of that "obligation" was on this message board. It's pure speculation and nothing more. I wouldnt get worked up about it. Probably a bit harsh calling Allen a cunt!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 17:10:18 GMT
It's not his fault but he is certainly not one of our best two central midfielders at the minute.
Powell Etebo Clucas Woods
is the best we have. Badou, Ince and Cousins are all preferable options as one of the central 2 for me aswell to be honest over Allen.
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Post by gaznandi on Aug 14, 2019 17:26:01 GMT
Has anyone actually considered that his managers may have encouraged or even instructed him to use his exceptional stamina to fill in spaces left by his team-mates? Welsh fans don't seem to criticize him for poor positional sense I don't think. How many 'dislikes' will accrue for this dissenting opinion I wonder? He's usually trying to fill the spaces he's created himself tbf
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 17:30:14 GMT
Has anyone actually considered that his managers may have encouraged or even instructed him to use his exceptional stamina to fill in spaces left by his team-mates? Welsh fans don't seem to criticize him for poor positional sense I don't think. How many 'dislikes' will accrue for this dissenting opinion I wonder? Guess the Welsh don’t have the honour of watching him 46 times a season. He had been and remains the single biggest problem in our midfield for 3 years.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 14, 2019 17:59:49 GMT
I wish we had sold him when he was being linked with other clubs, to be honest. I like him, but understand why others don't, and we could have bought a couple of players to disagree about with the money.
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Joe Allen
Aug 14, 2019 18:00:21 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 14, 2019 18:00:21 GMT
Has anyone actually considered that his managers may have encouraged or even instructed him to use his exceptional stamina to fill in spaces left by his team-mates? Welsh fans don't seem to criticize him for poor positional sense I don't think. How many 'dislikes' will accrue for this dissenting opinion I wonder? Guess the Welsh don’t have the honour of watching him 46 times a season. He had been and remains the single biggest problem in our midfield for 3 years. Helps I guess that’s he’s got and I’ll say it because I think he is, a world class midfielder by his side in Ramsey too.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 15, 2019 7:39:29 GMT
Has anyone actually considered that his managers may have encouraged or even instructed him to use his exceptional stamina to fill in spaces left by his team-mates? Welsh fans don't seem to criticize him for poor positional sense I don't think. How many 'dislikes' will accrue for this dissenting opinion I wonder? The main issue with that is that he doesn't press tight enough, for Wales he has Ramsey in front of him who is a great presser from the front and reduces the need of Allen to do so. But for us, he constantly presses 3 metres away from his man and simply gets passed around as we saw against QPR with the Eze clusterfuck (he wasn't wholly to blame) and Charlton where he got caught equidistant between two players neither pressing nor covering. He rarely creates (his contribution across 46 games is way down on what it should be and not even in our top 5 per 90 mins.) I've said before, international football is a poor correlation to league football, it's completely different in terms of tactics, mentality, playing group, quality of opposition and certain players thrive or look awful on the international stage. Allen's benefited from not having to do much creatively because of how Wales play, but with us he unbalances the midfield and he does roam around for us. Whether that marauding role is instructed or not, he doesn't carry it out effectively for us.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 15, 2019 7:40:16 GMT
Guess the Welsh don’t have the honour of watching him 46 times a season. He had been and remains the single biggest problem in our midfield for 3 years. Helps I guess that’s he’s got and I’ll say it because I think he is, a world class midfielder by his side in Ramsey too. Absolutely, Ramsey does everything going forward and most of the pressing from the front. Allen is a ball recycler in that side and nothing else.
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 15, 2019 9:21:42 GMT
I like Joe Allen, a good professional with a great attitude and commitment. He's not a flash player and gets a harsh reaction from fans. Through the dark times at Stoke he is one of few players fully committed to helping get us through it, and for that deserves more respect. If there are better players in the squad then it's fair enough to drop him to the bench, but the abuse he gets is really unfair. He is still a top player in this division and we are lucky to have him.
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