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Post by GoBoks on Aug 9, 2019 15:51:01 GMT
Another Goalscorer with experience?!? As we stand right now we have three strikers with a combined age of 85 and over 1000 appearances in the bag. I think we are doing alright for experience, goals on the other hand.... Something has clearly freaked Jones out over young players, Edwards bombed out, Verlinden dumped, Campbell used sparingly. Collins I fear was more of necessity than a choice on Saturday and wont be playing regularly. I wouldn't mind if the old heads hadn't pretty much all performed abysmally for him these past 8 months. MoanMoan, were you around when Waddo resigned a 46 yr old Stanley Matthews and Stoke had the oldest team in the entire football league? Do you know what happened next? How about when we signed a "past his best" John Ritchie? I can only imagine what you would have been saying at that time (or any of the many times we have signed "over the hill" or "troubled" players ala Fuller, Huth, Hoekstra, Pennant, Griffin, Crouch, Noel-Williams, or a host of others that have been an asset to Stoke).
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Post by nott1 on Aug 9, 2019 15:54:25 GMT
Another Goalscorer with experience?!? As we stand right now we have three strikers with a combined age of 85 and over 1000 appearances in the bag. I think we are doing alright for experience, goals on the other hand.... Something has clearly freaked Jones out over young players, Edwards bombed out, Verlinden dumped, Campbell used sparingly. Collins I fear was more of necessity than a choice on Saturday and wont be playing regularly. I wouldn't mind if the old heads hadn't pretty much all performed abysmally for him these past 8 months. MoanMoan, were you around when Waddo resigned a 46 yr old Stanley Matthews and Stoke had the oldest team in the entire football league? Do you know what happened next? How about when we signed a "past his best" John Ritchie? I can only imagine what you would have been saying at that time (or any of the many times we have signed "over the hill" or "troubled" players ala Fuller, Huth, Hoekstra, Pennant, Griffin, Crouch, Noel-Williams, or a host of others that have been an asset to Stoke). Sir Stan at 50 yrs old and a past it Ritchie were better than any player currently on our books!
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Post by GoBoks on Aug 9, 2019 15:55:17 GMT
He said god willing in his interview. No guessing who’s signed him. The man upstairs? We could rename the stadium the Holy Roman Empire. How about "The Coliseum"
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Post by GoBoks on Aug 9, 2019 15:58:14 GMT
MoanMoan, were you around when Waddo resigned a 46 yr old Stanley Matthews and Stoke had the oldest team in the entire football league? Do you know what happened next? How about when we signed a "past his best" John Ritchie? I can only imagine what you would have been saying at that time (or any of the many times we have signed "over the hill" or "troubled" players ala Fuller, Huth, Hoekstra, Pennant, Griffin, Crouch, Noel-Williams, or a host of others that have been an asset to Stoke). Sir Stan at 50 yrs old and a past it Ritchie were better than any player currently on our books! Agreed, but were they better than other options available at the time? The point is, as another poster pointed out, don't judge the pie until you have tasted it. This team has lost 1 (ONE) game. Let's first taste the pie before throwing it out.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 9, 2019 16:03:24 GMT
Sir Stan at 50 yrs old and a past it Ritchie were better than any player currently on our books! Agreed, but were they better than other options available at the time? The point is, as another poster pointed out, don't judge the pie until you have tasted it. This team has lost 1 (ONE) game. Let's first taste the pie before throwing it out. There were not better options than Ritchie at the time but Sir Stan was a bit on the mature side (but like a fine wine)and I'm hoping for a miracle with our bunch of nobodies!
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 9, 2019 16:57:43 GMT
The obsession with youth is getting weird. Every now and again a relatively young side comes good - Ajax last season for example - and all of sudden its the answer to all ills, The fact is teams with experience do better than those without experience and the number of relatively old successful teams massively outnumber successful young teams. Statistically if we adopt a policy based on playing youth we will do worse than we would if we field an experienced side. It's not as though Jones hasn't given young players a chance - in fact he's fielded far more youngsters than the last 4 predecessors. His first 11 selection policy is to play the best 11 available - regardless of age. The only reason a young player should make it to the first team is because they deserve their place - not because they are young. We're a professional football club - not a youth club. Giving youth a chance and saying that Jones has done this more so than previous managers while true, is also misleading. Yes, he played Edwards regularly but has now brought in Smith ( time will tell if he is a good signing), his use of Campbell and Verlinden can be measured in minutes not actual games, and his use of Collins was in his own words out of necessity. Statistically you are probably correct in that experienced sides trump inexperienced- but statistically teams that win 3 out of 24 games are usually relegated. You know what they say about statistics? He brought in Smith because Bauer is on his way and Jones publically stated he wanted competition for every position. Smith and Edwards are competing for the same position - which is how it should be. If Edwards can demonstrate he offers more than Smith he'll play. And Smith looked decent first game out. Campbell still looks a bit lost in the first team - he's got talent but personally I think he'd benefit from a loan, The problem for Verlinden is that his natural position is as a winger - he's going to have to adapt his game to get a place - and Jones shouldn't change tactics purely to help Verlinden. Collins played well and is clearly a talent - however at times he was a bit rash last week. I'm sure he'll get game time - but Jones has to put results first and Collins' development second. 3 wins out of 24 isn't very good - but that is in no way connected with not playing young players. Chances are if he'd have played the youngster more often we'd have done worse - and the assumption we'd do better is pure wishful thinking. I'd love the youngsters to come through - but it has to be on merit and results must come first.
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Post by thehoof on Aug 9, 2019 17:10:42 GMT
Giving youth a chance and saying that Jones has done this more so than previous managers while true, is also misleading. Yes, he played Edwards regularly but has now brought in Smith ( time will tell if he is a good signing), his use of Campbell and Verlinden can be measured in minutes not actual games, and his use of Collins was in his own words out of necessity. Statistically you are probably correct in that experienced sides trump inexperienced- but statistically teams that win 3 out of 24 games are usually relegated. You know what they say about statistics? He brought in Smith because Bauer is on his way and Jones publically stated he wanted competition for every position. Smith and Edwards are competing for the same position - which is how it should be. If Edwards can demonstrate he offers more than Smith he'll play. And Smith looked decent first game out. Campbell still looks a bit lost in the first team - he's got talent but personally I think he'd benefit from a loan, The problem for Verlinden is that his natural position is as a winger - he's going to have to adapt his game to get a place - and Jones shouldn't change tactics purely to help Verlinden. Collins played well and is clearly a talent - however at times he was a bit rash last week. I'm sure he'll get game time - but Jones has to put results first and Collins' development second. 3 wins out of 24 isn't very good - but that is in no way connected with not playing young players. Chances are if he'd have played the youngster more often we'd have done worse - and the assumption we'd do better is pure wishful thinking. I'd love the youngsters to come through - but it has to be on merit and results must come first. I understand what you are saying- but seriously if results must come first, where would it have hurt ( in his first 23 games) to have given Verlinden more than 1 start ( given that we didn’t play the Diamond I those games unless taking on a man and beating him is a crime?). Edwards had a good second half of the season and realistically unless Smith is much better, it should have been Edwards’ place to lose. Campbell certainly should have been given a chance as Afobe went 10 games without scoring at the end of last season and did not score ( or look like scoring) in pre-season. Collins should see game time throughout the season- I agree with your point there. It is certainly not about playing the youngsters at the same time, but Jones should not be so welded to a system that where people are not performing, they continue to be picked because he has a reticence to blood a youngster ( indeed 3 of Collins 4 appearances have been out of necessity-2 sendings off, and non availability of centre halves).
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Post by ethers26 on Aug 9, 2019 17:25:57 GMT
Asked my Villa season ticket holder colleague about him
Referenced the same thing the Villa podcaster said on Radio Stoke yesterday, but then said he's excellent alongside a big striker......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 18:00:52 GMT
Asked my Villa season ticket holder colleague about him Referenced the same thing the Villa podcaster said on Radio Stoke yesterday, but then said he's excellent alongside a big striker...... My Villa supporting mate says Kodjia was just too greedy for a front two, Hogan plays on the last man and it was doomed to fail as Kodj never passed.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Aug 9, 2019 18:36:31 GMT
Have we got an option to buy clause?
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Post by harlequin on Aug 9, 2019 18:53:23 GMT
Have we got an option to buy clause? Yeah, according to this post by FM.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Aug 9, 2019 18:55:28 GMT
Have we got an option to buy clause? Yeah, according to this post by FM.
Bargain, interested to know what fee it might be, guessing around £7/8m?
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Post by harlequin on Aug 9, 2019 20:50:57 GMT
Yeah, according to this post by FM.
Bargain, interested to know what fee it might be, guessing around £7/8m? I wouldn't be surprised if they want what they paid for him, circa 12m. There is no disincentive for them to not make it as high as they can. If he's shit they know we won't activate it and if he fires us in to the premier league they know we'll pay a premium.
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Post by brumstokie on Aug 9, 2019 21:11:18 GMT
Bargain, interested to know what fee it might be, guessing around £7/8m? I wouldn't be surprised if they want what they paid for him, circa 12m. There is no disincentive for them to not make it as high as they can. If he's shit they know we won't activate it and if he fires us in to the premier league they know we'll pay a premium. At the end of his loan he’ll have 1 year left on his contract at Villa. He shouldn’t be valued at anywhere near £7/8m then.
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Post by neddy on Aug 9, 2019 21:29:30 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if they want what they paid for him, circa 12m. There is no disincentive for them to not make it as high as they can. If he's shit they know we won't activate it and if he fires us in to the premier league they know we'll pay a premium. At the end of his loan he’ll have 1 year left on his contract at Villa. He shouldn’t be valued at anywhere near £7/8m then. Will be a good comparison with Afobe🤦♂️
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Post by Cyprusdelilah on Aug 9, 2019 22:20:39 GMT
Feed the Hoe & Stoke shall reap the award.
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Post by clarkeda on Aug 10, 2019 6:55:45 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if they want what they paid for him, circa 12m. There is no disincentive for them to not make it as high as they can. If he's shit they know we won't activate it and if he fires us in to the premier league they know we'll pay a premium. At the end of his loan he’ll have 1 year left on his contract at Villa. He shouldn’t be valued at anywhere near £7/8m then. I reckon about 4/5m they’ll want to free his wages up from the big incomings they’ve had over the summer
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Post by biglad180 on Aug 10, 2019 7:55:50 GMT
dont know much about him but if he can get off to a good start he will soon become a hero ie just like stein fuller and sheron all were. we should be all willing him to do well. i also think cambpell will bag goals for us given the chance
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 10, 2019 9:59:05 GMT
Why have we signed another overweight unfit player what is wrong with playing Campbell ?
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Post by 11wilkosinateam on Aug 14, 2019 6:46:09 GMT
Looked decent from the two appearances he’s made
Can’t be long until he opens his account
Massive improvement on Afobe
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Post by Davef on Aug 14, 2019 7:17:31 GMT
Just mentioned in another thread that his shooting in the warm up was woeful, but he did okay when he came on and the keeper made a great save to deny him a goal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 7:21:33 GMT
The one thing noticeable about Hogan as well as Duffy and Gregory is their movement, they're always on the move looking for the ball, looking to find space and making it generally difficult for the opposition defence.
Sounds obvious but at times over the last couple of seasons it's like we've had a bunch of statues in the final third so it bodes well......
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 14, 2019 7:21:37 GMT
Just mentioned in another thread that his shooting in the warm up was woeful, but he did okay when he came on and the keeper made a great save to deny him a goal. Apart from clucas, all of them were woeful in the warm up, as usual. Campbell was the worst especially when you consider his excellent Stein esq no backlift efforts late on
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Post by lordb on Aug 14, 2019 7:24:27 GMT
Why have we signed another overweight unfit player what is wrong with playing Campbell ? They both came on last night Manager is using all his options
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 14, 2019 7:27:42 GMT
Why have we signed another overweight unfit player what is wrong with playing Campbell ? Apart from the fact hes knackered after making one run, there is nothing wrong with playing Campbell
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Post by zerps on Aug 14, 2019 7:30:04 GMT
The one thing noticeable about Hogan as well as Duffy and Gregory is their movement, they're always on the move looking for the ball, looking to find space and making it generally difficult for the opposition defence. Sounds obvious but at times over the last couple of seasons it's like we've had a bunch of statues in the final third so it bodes well...... Couldn’t agree more
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 7:30:47 GMT
Why have we signed another overweight unfit player what is wrong with playing Campbell ? Apart from the fact hes knackered after making one run, there is nothing wrong with playing Campbell That's disappointing to hear/read, Dave.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 14, 2019 7:33:03 GMT
Apart from the fact hes knackered after making one run, there is nothing wrong with playing Campbell That's disappointing to hear/read, Dave. Hes got real stamina/endurance issues. The lad is a goal threat though. He shoots early, with power and so long as it's not the warm up, he seems to hit the target.
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Post by serpico on Aug 14, 2019 7:34:55 GMT
Im not sure about Campbell, a lot of fans talk of him as if he’s a wonderkid but I’m not seeing it yet, i think he might benefit from another loan spell.
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Post by mrpickles on Aug 14, 2019 7:35:19 GMT
The one thing noticeable about Hogan as well as Duffy and Gregory is their movement, they're always on the move looking for the ball, looking to find space and making it generally difficult for the opposition defence. Sounds obvious but at times over the last couple of seasons it's like we've had a bunch of statues in the final third so it bodes well...... Just watched the highlights on the other thread, and Hogan's timed run across the defender for his chance was what stuck out to me. Might seem simple stuff, but it's something we haven't seen anywhere near often enough over the last few years. Add that to his chance against Charlton, how he peeled away from the pack to be in space and at a good angle for a chance shows a real natural striker's instinct. Definitely looks like he has goals in him if we can create the chances. Really encouraging.
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