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Post by followyoudown on Jul 16, 2019 9:13:16 GMT
Oh I think that people understand the maths it's just that they're asking where the figure has come from? What is the population? Which cases are referred to? Are these the people expelled from the party only? Do they include the warnings of future behaviour, the reprimands, the downgraded slaps on the wrists? Do they include all those reported waiting to go through the once independent disciplinary process now tainted with top level political interference? This is the type of question I've asked fyd but apparently no clarification is needed. It's there in black and white Jesus wept I mean its not like there was another tweet saying racist grandpa and Formby were taken aback by the strength of feeling from current staff and were holding a crisis meeting. I didnt answer previously because of tbe sheer stupidity and banality of the question which was just trying to deflect from the issue, your actual attempted argument was because not everyone who has ever worked or supported Labour everything must be fine :/ pure genius if only there was some other method of measuring general support for a party hey....
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Post by vokeswagen on Jul 16, 2019 9:30:12 GMT
This is the type of question I've asked fyd but apparently no clarification is needed. It's there in black and white Jesus wept I mean its not like there was another tweet saying racist grandpa and Formby were taken aback by the strength of feeling from current staff and were holding a crisis meeting. I didnt answer previously because of tbe sheer stupidity and banality of the question which was just trying to deflect from the issue, your actual attempted argument was because not everyone who has ever worked or supported Labour everything must be fine :/ pure genius if only there was some other method of measuring general support for a party hey.... No, I wasn't making an argument. I was pointing out that without any specifics as to whom your news story was referring, it's not really something to inform debate. It's not possible to get any idea of who is complaining, or what sample size they represent. If you think that's a stupid and banal thing to expect before passing judgement, then frankly you're not very bright yourself. I'm not the one deflecting; you are.
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Post by felonious on Jul 16, 2019 9:52:41 GMT
Jesus wept I mean its not like there was another tweet saying racist grandpa and Formby were taken aback by the strength of feeling from current staff and were holding a crisis meeting. I didnt answer previously because of tbe sheer stupidity and banality of the question which was just trying to deflect from the issue, your actual attempted argument was because not everyone who has ever worked or supported Labour everything must be fine :/ pure genius if only there was some other method of measuring general support for a party hey.... No, I wasn't making an argument. I was pointing out that without any specifics as to whom your news story was referring, it's not really something to inform debate. It's not possible to get any idea of who is complaining, or what sample size they represent. If you think that's a stupid and banal thing to expect before passing judgement, then frankly you're not very bright yourself. I'm not the one deflecting; you are. 673 complaints in a 10 month period according to Jenny Formby. This problem has been rumbling on for 3 or so years. The article refers to an historic non current period and is already out of date. Prestwich has the actual current figures because he is confidently putting forward the 0.06% therefore we only need the basic data that underlines this figure www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47203397
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 9:56:19 GMT
I think this explains the Labour antisemitism "crisis" rather succinctly.... Oh I think that people understand the maths it's just that they're asking where the figure has come from? What is the population? Which cases are referred to? Are these the people expelled from the party only? Do they include the warnings of future behaviour, the reprimands, the downgraded slaps on the wrists? Do they include all those reported waiting to go through the once independent disciplinary process now tainted with top level political interference? Last records for a 10 month period: 673 accusations of antisemitism by Labour members Of those who were party members: 96 members were immediately suspended 146 received a reminder of conduct 220 cases did not have sufficient evidence of a breach of party rules to proceed with an investigation 211 were issued with a Notice of Investigation Of the cases who were issued with a Notice of Investigation or suspension, there have been 96 NEC antisemitism disputes panel decisions 42 members referred to national constitutional committee (NCC) 16 members issued with a formal NEC warning 6 members’ cases were referred for further investigation 25 members issued with ‘reminder of conduct’ 7 members’ cases were closed The following 18 NCC decisions have been made 12 members were expelled 6 received sanctions Formby "“These figures relate to about 0.1% of our membership, but one antisemite in our party is one too many. We are committed to tackling antisemitism and rooting it out of our party once and for all.” It's also worth adding that some of the cases above pre dated Corbyn and there's has been allegations that some were mislaid/delayed. Also Margaret Hodge herself sent in hundreds of complaints of which around 80% were not affiliated to Labour members (basically Twitter trolls), this is the woman who has the cheek to complain about speed of procedure when she is the biggest culprit in clogging up the system. And this is where the danger lies, no one of sane mind is saying that there isn't a small faction of knuckledraggers affiliated to the Labour Party. But actually when you look at national attitudes to antisemitism it's a smaller percentage. And on the subject of UK Jews feeling unsafe in this country, the facts are that last year 534 of Britain's 300,000 Jews emigrated from the UK, which was the third consecutive drop and a third down on 2015 figures. I'm all for ridding the evil of antisemitism, but let's deal in facts, let's deal in hard evidence not hearsay so we can punish the right people accordingly. It speaks volumes that some of those in UK politics quick to paint Corbyn as an antisemite can't even come out and condone blatant racism from the mouth of Donald Trump, or apologise for racism they have openly indulged in over the years, yet they expect fair minded people to believe that their faux outrage is about what's right, rather than sticking the boot into Jeremy Corbyn. He has many many faults, but it's McCarthyism at work and I struggle to understand how people fail to keep it in perspective. But then when you have PLP members who would rather see a Tory government than a socialist one, plus a media who are scraping the barrel in trying to discredit Corbyn (see yesterday's exclusive, "man walks into a lift" for the standard of journalism today) it's not hard to see why the subject has so much traction.....
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Post by vokeswagen on Jul 16, 2019 11:44:10 GMT
No, I wasn't making an argument. I was pointing out that without any specifics as to whom your news story was referring, it's not really something to inform debate. It's not possible to get any idea of who is complaining, or what sample size they represent. If you think that's a stupid and banal thing to expect before passing judgement, then frankly you're not very bright yourself. I'm not the one deflecting; you are. 673 complaints in a 10 month period according to Jenny Formby. This problem has been rumbling on for 3 or so years. The article refers to an historic non current period and is already out of date. Prestwich has the actual current figures because he is confidently putting forward the 0.06% therefore we only need the basic data that underlines this figure www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47203397 Well the article fyd posted referenced "current and former staff and supporters", which does not appear to be the same as the widely quoted 0.06% that Prestwich has also quoted. My point remains that without defining "current and former supporters" - and without detailing how many of each category (current staff, former staff, current "supporters" and former "supporters") have complained - it's pointless passing judgement either way. These are serious allegations deserving of serious detail, not vague non-journalism.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 11:52:25 GMT
No, I wasn't making an argument. I was pointing out that without any specifics as to whom your news story was referring, it's not really something to inform debate. It's not possible to get any idea of who is complaining, or what sample size they represent. If you think that's a stupid and banal thing to expect before passing judgement, then frankly you're not very bright yourself. I'm not the one deflecting; you are. 673 complaints in a 10 month period according to Jenny Formby. This problem has been rumbling on for 3 or so years. The article refers to an historic non current period and is already out of date. Prestwich has the actual current figures because he is confidently putting forward the 0.06% therefore we only need the basic data that underlines this figure www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47203397 Lets quadruple that number of accusations then for the hell of it, it's still less than a quarter of one percent of all members ACCUSED (not found guilty, just accused) Bearing in mind the Margaret's Hodge's of this world are bombarding Formby and her team with tweets that are being found to have zero connection with any party members. Logic and perspective tells me that this is not a crisis worthy of the amount of air time it's receiving. Anti-muslim hate in the Tory party however, now there's a percentage worth a bit more media scrutiny........
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Post by felonious on Jul 17, 2019 4:41:46 GMT
This is your legacy Mr Corbyn. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49012361I suppose it could be argued that it was the legacy of the previous leader who opened the floodgates at £3 a shot for the undesirables or is it the rise of that party within a party, Momentum.
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Post by Eggybread on Jul 17, 2019 5:32:27 GMT
The Panorama documentary ‘Is Labour Antisemitic?’ fronted by Sun ‘journalist’ John Ware, a man previously renowned for a 2015 Panorama documentary which was basically one long attack on Corbyn and for another programme claiming that a pro-Palestinian charity was being used as a front for terrorism - a false charge which ended up with the BBC having to apologise and pay damages.
I’m not going to mince my words. There are antisemites in the Labour Party. I have encountered them on my travels round the country. I have met and seen social media posts by idiots (or worse) spreading conspiracy theories about Jews/Rothschilds/Mossad etc and I have come across a few people unable to distinguish between legitimate and justified criticism of the disgusting policies of the Likudite Israeli Government and generalised statements about ‘Jews’. Antisemitism is an issue. The numbers are small, but it is disgusting and it needs to be rooted out.
But the way NOT to root it out is to broadcast a politically biased hatchet job by a former Murdoch employee with an axe to grind about the Labour Party making claims of ‘institutionalised antisemitism’ and basically accusing the entire Labour Party of being antisemitic - for political ends. That is a revolting slur, which is entirely counterproductive and will make rooting out the real antisemites more difficult - if you accuse people of being antisemites who are not, the accusation loses all credibility and the ones who are feel safer.
Shame on you, BBC. The endless attacks from the Tory government and right wing media are obviously having an effect. This programme was not made to expose antisemitism - if it had been, it would have been very different. It was made to help keep the Tories in power and besmirch the good name of countless anti racist and anti fascist activists all over this country in order to score political points.
That programme basically accused Labour party members of being anti semetic Utterly disgusting, unprecedented and contemptible.
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Post by vokeswagen on Jul 17, 2019 6:17:14 GMT
This is your legacy Mr Corbyn. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49012361I suppose it could be argued that it was the legacy of the previous leader who opened the floodgates at £3 a shot for the undesirables or is it the rise of that party within a party, Momentum. And as I've already pointed out, you liked the OP which used the word "m**g" in a pejorative sense, a word that's offensive to people with learning disabilities, so you're not really in a position to judge
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 6:22:00 GMT
This is your legacy Mr Corbyn. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49012361I suppose it could be argued that it was the legacy of the previous leader who opened the floodgates at £3 a shot for the undesirables or is it the rise of that party within a party, Momentum. A bunch of unelected Blairites who’ve had an axe to grind with Corbyn from day one. And another statement full of cliches with no actual evidence....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 9:32:37 GMT
Professor Robert Winston "Corbyn can resign to prove he's not antisemitic"
Careful Robert, you've let the cat out of the bag there. Back to witching times we go......
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Post by felonious on Jul 18, 2019 12:05:36 GMT
Labour peers could hold a vote of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn's leadership over his response to claims of anti-Semitism in the party. This follows the sacking of Baroness Hayter - a critic of Mr Corbyn over the issue - as Brexit minister. The BBC understands Labour peers will hold an emergency meeting on Monday to consider a motion calling for a no-confidence vote. If passed, a ballot of all Labour peers will follow. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49031917More tales of the disaffected.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 13:40:59 GMT
Labour peers could hold a vote of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn's leadership over his response to claims of anti-Semitism in the party. This follows the sacking of Baroness Hayter - a critic of Mr Corbyn over the issue - as Brexit minister. The BBC understands Labour peers will hold an emergency meeting on Monday to consider a motion calling for a no-confidence vote. If passed, a ballot of all Labour peers will follow. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49031917More tales of the disaffected. "Jeremy why won't you adopt the IHRA definition of antisemitism?" Labour adopt full IHRA definition of antisemitism. "Why have you sacked Baroness Hayter it's outrageous" "She broke the rules in accordance with the IHRA definition of antisemitism by quoting Hitler" "But but but.................."
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Post by felonious on Jul 18, 2019 14:59:43 GMT
Labour peers could hold a vote of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn's leadership over his response to claims of anti-Semitism in the party. This follows the sacking of Baroness Hayter - a critic of Mr Corbyn over the issue - as Brexit minister. The BBC understands Labour peers will hold an emergency meeting on Monday to consider a motion calling for a no-confidence vote. If passed, a ballot of all Labour peers will follow. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49031917More tales of the disaffected. "Jeremy why won't you adopt the IHRA definition of antisemitism?" Labour adopt full IHRA definition of antisemitism. "Why have you sacked Baroness Hayter it's outrageous" "She broke the rules in accordance with the IHRA definition of antisemitism by quoting Hitler" "But but but.................." For a moment I read that as the IRA definition of antisemitism.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 11:52:10 GMT
Labour M.P. to stand down at next general election. Labour MP Gloria De Piero quits as she criticises party’s ‘lack of tolerance’ link
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Post by felonious on Jul 20, 2019 12:40:10 GMT
Labour M.P. to stand down at next general election. Labour MP Gloria De Piero quits as she criticises party’s ‘lack of tolerance’ linkNothing to see here, awaits Momentum spin
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 24, 2019 12:14:20 GMT
If Corbyn was to resign, who would be best suited or placed to be the next leader? Keir Starman? Emily Thornberry? Eddie Izzard?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 12:29:24 GMT
If Corbyn was to resign, who would be best suited or placed to be the next leader? Keir Starman? Emily Thornberry? Eddie Izzard? The Twitter blue tick celebrities who all despise Corbyn would love Starman, or someone like Yvette Cooper. They could all watch from their middle class bubbles as Labour slipped back to being Tory lite. If Corbyn resigned I think the members would turn to McDonnell if he wanted it, or someone like Laura Pidcock. That said if Corbyn didn’t see this through to a GE I think a lot of members would drift away, they signed up for democratic socialism not beige centrism.
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Post by followyoudown on Jul 25, 2019 11:20:52 GMT
Fucking hell
Racist grandpa just asked PM Boris if hr can rule out selling the NHS to Trump, amateur hour......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 25, 2019 11:54:46 GMT
Jo Swinson reckons the Lib Dems will gain more seats than Labour in a GE. Aldo she wants a vote of no confidence in Boris..... he's been in the job for 18 hours. Playing politics I think. Does anyone think that she is an impressive leader? Out of interest.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 25, 2019 12:09:14 GMT
Jo Swinson reckons the Lib Dems will gain more seats than Labour in a GE. Aldo she wants a vote of no confidence in Boris..... he's been in the job for 18 hours. Playing politics I think. Does anyone think that she is an impressive leader? Out of interest. Remember when Sam Hamman was at Cardiff and said that they were as big as Barca- it reminds me a bit of that. Let them have their little moment. As for Jo Swinson, I won't lie, I had to Google her.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 25, 2019 12:13:44 GMT
Jo Swinson reckons the Lib Dems will gain more seats than Labour in a GE. Aldo she wants a vote of no confidence in Boris..... he's been in the job for 18 hours. Playing politics I think. Does anyone think that she is an impressive leader? Out of interest. Remember when Sam Hamman was at Cardiff and said that they were as big as Barca- it reminds me a bit of that. Let them have their little moment. As for Jo Swinson, I won't lie, I had to Google her 😎 If there was a GE i think it is possible that the Lib Dems would take votes from Labour on the basis of clarity about BREXIT.....which would favour Leavers, the Conservatives and the BREXIT party. Alongside Lucas I think her contempt for democracy and superiority complex are beyond belief....we really do know best no matter what anyone else thinks
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 25, 2019 12:29:29 GMT
Remember when Sam Hamman was at Cardiff and said that they were as big as Barca- it reminds me a bit of that. Let them have their little moment. As for Jo Swinson, I won't lie, I had to Google her 😎 If there was a GE i think it is possible that the Lib Dems would take votes from Labour on the basis of clarity about BREXIT.....which would favour Leavers, the Conservatives and the BREXIT party. Alongside Lucas I think her contempt for democracy and seniority complex are beyond belief....we really do know best no matter what anyone else thinks Her exchange with Clive Lewis was interesting. They had a tiff, but basically agreed to stop Brexit, deal or No Deal. Johnson could come back with the best deal ever and they would still block it. How can that be right?
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Post by yeokel on Jul 25, 2019 12:41:24 GMT
Jo Swinson reckons the Lib Dems will gain more seats than Labour in a GE. Aldo she wants a vote of no confidence in Boris..... he's been in the job for 18 hours. Playing politics I think. Does anyone think that she is an impressive leader? Out of interest. Rather like Boris, she’s not had time to be impressive or not impressive yet. She can’t be any worse or any more anonymous than Cable, that’s for sure. The Libs have worn their hearts on their sleeves as far as Brexit is concerned, boasting that they are fully prepared to hand over control of UK tax legislation, UK consumer legislation, UK currency issues, UK trade, UK defence policies and actions and just about every other democratic freedom we enjoy in this, our once proud nation to a non elected, non democratic pan-European body. If she sticks to that message I don’t think she will be impressive as, once the realities of it come to be realised, she’ll destroy their fragile support & vote.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 25, 2019 12:42:46 GMT
If there was a GE i think it is possible that the Lib Dems would take votes from Labour on the basis of clarity about BREXIT.....which would favour Leavers, the Conservatives and the BREXIT party. Alongside Lucas I think her contempt for democracy and seniority complex are beyond belief....we really do know best no matter what anyone else thinks Her exchange with Clive Lewis was interesting. They had a tiff, but basically agreed to stop Brexit, deal or No Deal. Johnson could come back with the best deal ever and they would still block it. How can that be right? I honestly think that some Remainers have lost the understanding of what this is really about.... just my opinion of course
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Post by followyoudown on Jul 26, 2019 13:28:41 GMT
Just leaving this here even an ex Corbyn spokesman says Corbyn is useless
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Post by felonious on Jul 30, 2019 11:41:48 GMT
Alastair Campbell says he no longer wants to be a Labour member, claiming the party is facing an "existential crisis" due to poor leadership. But he said he did not want to return because Labour had been "taken over" and it was "time to stop pretending" it was the party it used to be. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49162506The Momentum Party?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 30, 2019 11:52:59 GMT
Alastair Campbell says he no longer wants to be a Labour member, claiming the party is facing an "existential crisis" due to poor leadership. But he said he did not want to return because Labour had been "taken over" and it was "time to stop pretending" it was the party it used to be. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49162506The Momentum Party? Can't stand Campbell but in my opinion he is probably correct on this. I don't think that Labour represents anyone and stands for anything any more. Corbyn reminds me of the disgruntled teacher in the staffroom moaning about management but not having a clue what would really be better and workable ( nor an inclination to do so). "Get the Tories" isn't enough.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 30, 2019 11:55:02 GMT
Campbells centre right conformity has been massively rejected by Labour members twice. Cambell's problem isn't that Corbyn can't win it's that he can and he fucking hates the thought of a socialist in #10. A bloddstained warmongering fucking traitor.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 12:01:24 GMT
Alastair Campbell says he no longer wants to be a Labour member, claiming the party is facing an "existential crisis" due to poor leadership. But he said he did not want to return because Labour had been "taken over" and it was "time to stop pretending" it was the party it used to be.www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49162506The Momentum Party? Is this the pound shop Malcolm Tucker finally realising that the Labour he was part of 15 years ago is not what the membership want?
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