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Post by StatesideStokie on Aug 15, 2019 0:28:19 GMT
I think Allen will be a Glen Whelan scenario,you think he runs round like a headless chicken but when he’s gone you realise he was an important part of the team.I was the same with whelan he never shot always passed side wards or back then when he left I realised we needed that in the team. Anyone who thought Glen Whelan ran around like a headless chicken during his time at Stoke knows nowt about football. He was one of the best pound-for-pound signings we ever made. If you’re comparing their Stoke careers, Joe Allen isn’t fit to lace Whelan’s boots.
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Post by Rt Hon Reverend Luvpump on Aug 15, 2019 3:29:21 GMT
I think Allen will be a Glen Whelan scenario,you think he runs round like a headless chicken but when he’s gone you realise he was an important part of the team.I was the same with whelan he never shot always passed side wards or back then when he left I realised we needed that in the team. Anyone who thought Glen Whelan ran around like a headless chicken during his time at Stoke knows nowt about football. He was one of the best pound-for-pound signings we ever made. If you’re comparing their Stoke careers, Joe Allen isn’t fit to lace Whelan’s boots. Well see when he leaves that’s my point 😉🇺🇸
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Post by citynickscfc on Aug 15, 2019 6:37:34 GMT
Anyone who thought Glen Whelan ran around like a headless chicken during his time at Stoke knows nowt about football. He was one of the best pound-for-pound signings we ever made. If you’re comparing their Stoke careers, Joe Allen isn’t fit to lace Whelan’s boots. Well see when he leaves that’s my point 😉🇺🇸 If we replace him with someone with energy and vision what's not to like? So long as they are more disciplined and fill that void in our squad, DM.
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 15, 2019 7:02:06 GMT
I think Allen will be a Glen Whelan scenario,you think he runs round like a headless chicken but when he’s gone you realise he was an important part of the team.I was the same with whelan he never shot always passed side wards or back then when he left I realised we needed that in the team. I never felt that Glenn Whelan ran around like a headless chicken, certainly not as he came towards the end of his spell here which for me was when he showed his best form. And i get what you are saying about not realising what you have until its gone but he wasn’t there the other night against wigan and although they weren’t at full strength it’s probably the most competent our midfield has looked in a while.
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Post by Northy on Aug 15, 2019 7:09:32 GMT
I think Allen will be a Glen Whelan scenario,you think he runs round like a headless chicken but when he’s gone you realise he was an important part of the team.I was the same with whelan he never shot always passed side wards or back then when he left I realised we needed that in the team. We've had our worst 3 years in a long time which coincides with Joe Allen being here, coincidence or not?
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Aug 15, 2019 7:14:33 GMT
The difference is, we were playing well when people wanted Whelan replaced. We wanted an upgrade as we thought we were better than him. This just isn't the case with Allen. I can't possibly imagine a scenario where we are worse without him and desperately want him back in the side.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 7:27:09 GMT
Whelan was a very disciplined player,he knew his job and stuck to it. We've signed umpteen replacements and none have come close.Some have had more skill,some better passers and some more mobile but still we hanker for a no nonsense DM
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Post by drippinggoatsnob on Aug 15, 2019 7:34:59 GMT
I think Allen will be a Glen Whelan scenario,you think he runs round like a headless chicken but when he’s gone you realise he was an important part of the team.I was the same with whelan he never shot always passed side wards or back then when he left I realised we needed that in the team. the list is endless amongst some of our fans.... Whelan, Walters, Pieters, Cresswell etc they started to get the, lost his pace, headless chicken, no end product tag and when they move on we realise they weren't that bad at all and we miss other elements of their game. People blaming the 3 year decline on him beggers belief. That said I think his lack of a disciplined role in him needs to be strategically aligned in the team set up.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 15, 2019 19:29:45 GMT
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Post by boothenesque on Aug 15, 2019 20:04:58 GMT
If he doesn't go (hope he doesn't also) because no one buys him, ask him nicely if he'll stay to help the club and help put himself in the window getting paid full whack what is in the contract. If he says no he's not going to play but still wants to be paid for doing nowt then sack him. Hope he stays, gets us back up and in doing so if he gets a good move we give thanks and best wishes. How does it help their careers taking money for doing nothing? It's not going to send the right signal to any prospective buyers, it's like they're writing off their own careers! But if that's what they want to do we shouldn't let them do it in SoT and take the piss out of everyone that lives here and supports the club.
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Post by StatesideStokie on Aug 16, 2019 2:52:20 GMT
I think Allen will be a Glen Whelan scenario,you think he runs round like a headless chicken but when he’s gone you realise he was an important part of the team.I was the same with whelan he never shot always passed side wards or back then when he left I realised we needed that in the team. the list is endless amongst some of our fans.... Whelan, Walters, Pieters, Cresswell etc they started to get the, lost his pace, headless chicken, no end product tag and when they move on we realise they weren't that bad at all and we miss other elements of their game. People blaming the 3 year decline on him beggers belief. That said I think his lack of a disciplined role in him needs to be strategically aligned in the team set up. How can you strategically align a team around a player that doesn’t have the discipline to do what’s asked of him? You build teams around players who are consistent, and exceptional at what they do. Joe Allen is the opposite of that. What attributes does he have that you could build a team around? He’s so fucking average in every facet of the game.!He has no positional sense, no discipline, no real creative ability, he can’t tackle, he’s not a leader. But he runs around a lot. It would be like building a team around a whizzed-up cocker spaniel.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 16, 2019 6:34:12 GMT
If he doesn't go (hope he doesn't also) because no one buys him, ask him nicely if he'll stay to help the club and help put himself in the window getting paid full whack what is in the contract. If he says no he's not going to play but still wants to be paid for doing nowt then sack him. Hope he stays, gets us back up and in doing so if he gets a good move we give thanks and best wishes. How does it help their careers taking money for doing nothing? It's not going to send the right signal to any prospective buyers, it's like they're writing off their own careers! But if that's what they want to do we shouldn't let them do it in SoT and take the piss out of everyone that lives here and supports the club. I’ve said this many times that players and agents hold all the cards helped by PFA. A player like Ndiaye is an asset that runs down over their contract. We paid £14m for a 5 year contract of which their are 3.5 years left which puts his asset value at just under £10m at present. To sack him would cost us around £6m in pay off assuming we have to pay his wages to the end of his contract. It wouldn’t make any sense to do that if ideally we can sell him for close to his current asset value. Even loaning him out for fee would be better than sacking him. I suppose there comes a tipping point in asset value vs wages when it would be financially better to sack him. If a player does not play because he refuses to but knows he won’t get sacked then some of the mercenaries we’ve seen at our club would be happy to draw their £40k a week building up a nice little nest egg for doing fuck all. My god we’ve had more than our fair share of these twats and, probably because other potential clubs do full diligence on high value players, they see right through the likes of Ndiaye, Imbula, Berahino and Wimmer and say "thanks but no thanks.."
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Post by Gods on Aug 16, 2019 7:53:21 GMT
I think Allen will be a Glen Whelan scenario,you think he runs round like a headless chicken but when he’s gone you realise he was an important part of the team.I was the same with whelan he never shot always passed side wards or back then when he left I realised we needed that in the team. We've had our worst 3 years in a long time which coincides with Joe Allen being here, coincidence or not? Same summer we sold Marc Wilson to Bournemouth, I blame our decline on that.
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Post by lifelong on Aug 16, 2019 8:53:48 GMT
See Crouch's comments on the Berahino saga also shows some light on our demise
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Post by gingerninja on Aug 20, 2019 18:41:35 GMT
Has it actually been confirmed that he is back at the club and training?.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 20, 2019 19:12:01 GMT
We've had our worst 3 years in a long time which coincides with Joe Allen being here, coincidence or not? Same summer we sold Marc Wilson to Bournemouth, I blame our decline on that. The main reason Wilson was sold is exactly connected to the decline we experienced, as far as I'm concerned.. so I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or straightforward
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Post by onefatcopper on Aug 20, 2019 19:32:44 GMT
Same summer we sold Marc Wilson to Bournemouth, I blame our decline on that. The main reason Wilson was sold is exactly connected to the decline we experienced, as far as I'm concerned.. so I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or straightforward I agree with you that Wilson’s exit signalled the start of Stokes decline, he turned whistleblower about the training regime or lack of a training regime under Hughes. I don’t personally think Wilson was missed as a player but more as a character and leader, once he blew the lid about not practicing defensive setups Hughes couldn’t get him out of the door quick enough, which in hindsight was the dismantling of Pulis’s defensive wall and team spirit.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 20, 2019 20:30:12 GMT
The main reason Wilson was sold is exactly connected to the decline we experienced, as far as I'm concerned.. so I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or straightforward I agree with you that Wilson’s exit signalled the start of Stokes decline, he turned whistleblower about the training regime or lack of a training regime under Hughes. I don’t personally think Wilson was missed as a player but more as a character and leader, once he blew the lid about not practicing defensive setups Hughes couldn’t get him out of the door quick enough, which in hindsight was the dismantling of Pulis’s defensive wall and team spirit. Pretty much my thoughts too. It wasnt the loss of the player, it was what he was telling us about what was happening at the club under Hughes' stewardship.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 20, 2019 20:32:43 GMT
Marc Wilson leaving was where it all started to go wrong. I’ve heard it fucking all now.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 20, 2019 20:45:42 GMT
Marc Wilson leaving was where it all started to go wrong. I’ve heard it fucking all now. Not exactly what I was saying and you know it
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Post by shrewspotter on Aug 20, 2019 20:49:18 GMT
Marc Wilson leaving was where it all started to go wrong. I’ve heard it fucking all now. i think what the op is suggesting is that when Wilson left he said that Stoke did practically zero training on defensive work. At the time most of us laughed it off as sour grapes. 20 thrashings later by 4 or more goals and we realised what Wilson said was probably true. I still find it unbelievable
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Post by lordb on Aug 20, 2019 20:50:13 GMT
Has it actually been confirmed that he is back at the club and training?. Jones said so didn't he?
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 20, 2019 21:03:35 GMT
Was that Jones the optimist or Jones the realist?
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Post by Jimm on Aug 20, 2019 21:15:46 GMT
I'll be glad when he;s fucked off along with his agent. He wont ever play for us again, he made that clear last year!
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Post by philm87 on Aug 20, 2019 21:45:55 GMT
Also since Joe Allen signed we have had Brexit and Trump. All because he runs around too much.
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 20, 2019 22:08:23 GMT
Also since Joe Allen signed we have had Brexit and Trump. All because he runs around too much. And because he offers nothing to the football club?
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Post by kustokie on Aug 20, 2019 23:14:05 GMT
If he doesn't go (hope he doesn't also) because no one buys him, ask him nicely if he'll stay to help the club and help put himself in the window getting paid full whack what is in the contract. If he says no he's not going to play but still wants to be paid for doing nowt then sack him. Hope he stays, gets us back up and in doing so if he gets a good move we give thanks and best wishes. How does it help their careers taking money for doing nothing? It's not going to send the right signal to any prospective buyers, it's like they're writing off their own careers! But if that's what they want to do we shouldn't let them do it in SoT and take the piss out of everyone that lives here and supports the club. I’ve said this many times that players and agents hold all the cards helped by PFA. A player like Ndiaye is an asset that runs down over their contract. We paid £14m for a 5 year contract of which their are 3.5 years left which puts his asset value at just under £10m at present. To sack him would cost us around £6m in pay off assuming we have to pay his wages to the end of his contract. It wouldn’t make any sense to do that if ideally we can sell him for close to his current asset value. Even loaning him out for fee would be better than sacking him. I suppose there comes a tipping point in asset value vs wages when it would be financially better to sack him. If a player does not play because he refuses to but knows he won’t get sacked then some of the mercenaries we’ve seen at our club would be happy to draw their £40k a week building up a nice little nest egg for doing fuck all. My god we’ve had more than our fair share of these twats and, probably because other potential clubs do full diligence on high value players, they see right through the likes of Ndiaye, Imbula, Berahino and Wimmer and say "thanks but no thanks.." That assumes a straight line depreciation. However, I suspect his value is lot less than that because he hasn’t accomplished much over the last 15 months and isn’t playing at all right now. Stoke probably want 10 million but would probably settle for a lot less just to get him off the books.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 21, 2019 0:22:36 GMT
Marc Wilson leaving was where it all started to go wrong. I’ve heard it fucking all now. Best left back in the Premier League
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 21, 2019 6:26:44 GMT
I’ve said this many times that players and agents hold all the cards helped by PFA. A player like Ndiaye is an asset that runs down over their contract. We paid £14m for a 5 year contract of which their are 3.5 years left which puts his asset value at just under £10m at present. To sack him would cost us around £6m in pay off assuming we have to pay his wages to the end of his contract. It wouldn’t make any sense to do that if ideally we can sell him for close to his current asset value. Even loaning him out for fee would be better than sacking him. I suppose there comes a tipping point in asset value vs wages when it would be financially better to sack him. If a player does not play because he refuses to but knows he won’t get sacked then some of the mercenaries we’ve seen at our club would be happy to draw their £40k a week building up a nice little nest egg for doing fuck all. My god we’ve had more than our fair share of these twats and, probably because other potential clubs do full diligence on high value players, they see right through the likes of Ndiaye, Imbula, Berahino and Wimmer and say "thanks but no thanks.." That assumes a straight line depreciation. However, I suspect his value is lot less than that because he hasn’t accomplished much over the last 15 months and isn’t playing at all right now. Stoke probably want 10 million but would probably settle for a lot less just to get him off the books. Agree completely that his transfer value is much less than his asset value. But his "on the accounts asset value" will be amortised pro rata with his contract run down so that at the end of his contract he will be a zero asset. FFP rules ensures this. As you say, Stoke would accept a much lower transfer fee to get him off the wages bill.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 21, 2019 7:16:43 GMT
That assumes a straight line depreciation. However, I suspect his value is lot less than that because he hasn’t accomplished much over the last 15 months and isn’t playing at all right now. Stoke probably want 10 million but would probably settle for a lot less just to get him off the books. Agree completely that his transfer value is much less than his asset value. But his "on the accounts asset value" will be amortised pro rata with his contract run down so that at the end of his contract he will be a zero asset. FFP rules ensures this. As you say, Stoke would accept a much lower transfer fee to get him off the wages bill. His value might improve if Jones started to pick him and see how he reacted!
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