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Post by sheikhmomo on May 30, 2019 7:23:15 GMT
Had a little snigger at that last bit Rob with this new rumour of Player/Coach going around........all very 1970's in my opinion If the window closes and we've only signed players in their late 20s and 30s then by all means bring this back to the top but do you genuinely think that's in the offing? It looks like we'll be going into the new season with three centre forwards with an average age of 29, Rob. One of which looked arthritic when he played last season, one (the young one!)who by anyone's measure was completely shit and the new one who is barely likely to be on the upgrade. I can't see us buying another one so in that regard we're done there, Hardly time to be putting the bunting out is it. I can fully understand why people are desperate for some better links than a 35 year old out of contract journeyman.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2019 7:29:37 GMT
If the window closes and we've only signed players in their late 20s and 30s then by all means bring this back to the top but do you genuinely think that's in the offing? It looks like we'll be going into the new season with three centre forwards with an average age of 29, Rob. One of which looked arthritic when he played last season, one (the young one!)who by anyone's measure was completely shit and the new one who is barely likely to be on the upgrade. I can't see us buying another one so in that regard we're done there, Hardly time to be putting the bunting out is it. I can fully understand why people are desperate for some better links than a 35 year old out of contract journeyman. It's not even June, yet Sheiky. You were a lot more patient when we used to have to 'wait for apples to drop'... Again, if the season kicks off and we haven't signed anyone young and/or mobile I'll hold my hands up. Personally I think Vokes will get better after a pre-season and Gregory will prove a savvy signing, given he hit double figures in a shit team and is a workhorse who fizzes around leading the press. If the 35-year-old DM is coming in to play week in, week out, that, patently, is lunacy, absolutely. Do you really think that's the case? I don't.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 30, 2019 7:39:00 GMT
It looks like we'll be going into the new season with three centre forwards with an average age of 29, Rob. One of which looked arthritic when he played last season, one (the young one!)who by anyone's measure was completely shit and the new one who is barely likely to be on the upgrade. I can't see us buying another one so in that regard we're done there, Hardly time to be putting the bunting out is it. I can fully understand why people are desperate for some better links than a 35 year old out of contract journeyman. It's not even June, yet Sheiky. You were a lot more patient when we used to have to 'wait for apples to drop'... Again, if the season kicks off and we haven't signed anyone young and/or mobile I'll hold my hands up. Personally I think Vokes will get better after a pre-season and Gregory will prove a savvy signing, given he hit double figures in a shit team and is a workhorse who fizzes around leading the press. If the 35-year-old DM is coming in to play week in, week out, that, patently, is lunacy, absolutely. Do you really think that's the case? I don't. It was Jones who said he wanted every one in before pre season training, Rob, no on else. Do you think we'll get another out and out striker? I don't and for me that's not a combination of players who has got the goals in them or the mobility to sustain a genuine promtion push. I accept it's early days but it's all exceptionally underwhelming and has the feel of a team with no real intention of learning from previous failings and going for it next season.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 30, 2019 7:41:41 GMT
I'm not worried by the links so far. They all seem sensible. Not 100% convinced by the keeper, but if we've delegated the scouting to Quy and he's come up with him as his favoured target, it seems fair enough if that's his speciality.
Fingers crossed the left-back (who'll be of the young, fast variety) regular holding midfielder (not McCormack who'll probably only play a handful of games?) and maybe another striker (who's a bit more box office) will be the difference-makers.
I agree that I'm struggling to see Vokes, Gregory, Afobe, Campbell as enough to win us promotion - and if the plan really is to keep Afobe, that would seem to be that.
But any potential additional striker would presumably fit into the pecking order ahead of Gregory? In which case, what on earth happens to Afobe if he's 4th choice on 25k-a-week?
And also a bit confused about what happens to Ince if Powell comes in ahead of him?
Hopefully, despite the noise, Afobe, Ince and McClean (surely he won't stick around to be second choice LB?) are vulnerable.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 30, 2019 8:09:31 GMT
I'm not worried by the links so far. They all seem sensible. Not 100% convinced by the keeper, but if we've delegated the scouting to Quy and he's come up with him as his favoured target, it seems fair enough if that's his speciality. Fingers crossed the left-back (who'll be of the young, fast variety) regular holding midfielder (not McCormack who'll probably only play a handful of games?) and maybe another striker (who's a bit more box office) will be the difference-makers. I agree that I'm struggling to see Vokes, Gregory, Afobe, Campbell as enough to win us promotion - and if the plan really is to keep Afobe, that would seem to be that. But any potential additional striker would presumably fit into the pecking order ahead of Gregory? In which case, what on earth happens to Afobe if he's 4th choice on 25k-a-week? And also a bit confused about what happens to Ince if Powell comes in ahead of him? Hopefully, despite the noise, Afobe, Ince and McClean (surely he won't stick around to be second choice LB?) are vulnerable. Re Quy, where's the evidence that he's actually any good? The keepers that have done well for us came as good keeper already. Butland's command and kicking has declined under his tutorlige. And Butland and Bego's technique's for penalty saving are remarkably similarly, flop to the side. Despite both being massive and both being very good shot stoppers. We haven't had an academy 'keeper make it through to even looking close enough to first team football for us either.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2019 8:17:25 GMT
It's not even June, yet Sheiky. You were a lot more patient when we used to have to 'wait for apples to drop'... Again, if the season kicks off and we haven't signed anyone young and/or mobile I'll hold my hands up. Personally I think Vokes will get better after a pre-season and Gregory will prove a savvy signing, given he hit double figures in a shit team and is a workhorse who fizzes around leading the press. If the 35-year-old DM is coming in to play week in, week out, that, patently, is lunacy, absolutely. Do you really think that's the case? I don't. It was Jones who said he wanted every one in before pre season training, Rob, no on else. Do you think we'll get another out and out striker? I don't and for me that's not a combination of players who has got the goals in them or the mobility to sustain a genuine promtion push. I accept it's early days but it's all exceptionally underwhelming and has the feel of a team with no real intention of learning from previous failings and going for it next season. I think if Gregory signs we then have bigger priorities than another striker mate. Left back is an absolutely screaming priority. A proper destroyer to play every week (ie one younger than 35) is another. I'm reserving judgement until the end of the window, signings and squad-wise.
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Post by blackpoolred on May 30, 2019 19:25:51 GMT
I agree - just a bit strange how you could have such a strong opinion on one manager after just one half of a season, but have no opinion at all on the other manager after the same amount of time As stated the whole thread is about how shite Rowett was and there are dozens of threads with similar comments at the moment and they get a bit tedious - so I feel the need to point out now and again that the man we currently have in charge has been pretty woeful himself so far - but for some strange reason it seems to go unnoticed - and no bugar when you ask them can tell you what they like about NJ or can give a well-reasoned argument as to why he is so much better than his predecessor and brings so much hope and enthusiasm - possibly cause he banged his chest after his 1 and only home win - I dont know. Only that his shite management and the drivel he served up in the second half of the season was all Rowetts fault again, or that now he had nothing to play for after the mess Rowett left Surely only being half a dozen points off the play-off spots when he arrived should have been an incentive If he was a good manager and Rowett a clown then surely he should have done at least a little bit better than the clown, not twice as bad. Bruce turned Sheff Wed around halfway through the season You're arguing two different things entirely though. 1) Jones should have done better than he did, no question. I don't think anyone's really disputing that. 2) That doesn't make a comparison with Rowett fair. It's Rowett's team and Rowett's response to inheriting a mess was to create an even bigger one that Jones is now having to deal with. But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to.
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Post by Davef on May 30, 2019 19:46:40 GMT
You're arguing two different things entirely though. 1) Jones should have done better than he did, no question. I don't think anyone's really disputing that. 2) That doesn't make a comparison with Rowett fair. It's Rowett's team and Rowett's response to inheriting a mess was to create an even bigger one that Jones is now having to deal with. But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to. James Chester didn't want to leave Villa and as it turns out hasn't played since January due to injury problems that look likely to cut his career short.
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Post by crapslinger on May 30, 2019 19:52:15 GMT
But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to. James Chester didn't want to leave Villa and as it turns out hasn't played since January due to injury problems that look likely to cut his career short. Weren't Villa desperate for money at the time before the takeover and we tried to nick him on the cheap, losing out because we didn't act more decisively ? I may be wrong though.
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Post by Davef on May 30, 2019 19:56:52 GMT
James Chester didn't want to leave Villa and as it turns out hasn't played since January due to injury problems that look likely to cut his career short. Weren't Villa desperate for money at the time before the takeover and we tried to nick him on the cheap, losing out because we didn't act more decisively ? I may be wrong though. Their takeover was clearly well known about within the corridors at Villa Park. We were hoping to get him cheaply but Bruce advised Chester not to rush into any decision.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2019 20:43:08 GMT
You're arguing two different things entirely though. 1) Jones should have done better than he did, no question. I don't think anyone's really disputing that. 2) That doesn't make a comparison with Rowett fair. It's Rowett's team and Rowett's response to inheriting a mess was to create an even bigger one that Jones is now having to deal with. But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to. You've got a fucking nerve to accuse me of talking rubbish and then follow it up with that steaming horse manure, Jesus Christ where to start... 1) You couldn't have made an argument that every single player in the squad needed replacing. We didn't even finish bottom of the league, so why you're painting us as Sunderland mark 2 I'm not sure. 2) Rowett's 'unbeaten run' was precisely one game longer than Jones'. Both were unconvincing and filled with disappointing draws. Even the wins were poor as we laboured to even manage a shot on target at home to dross like Ipswich and Millwall. 3) Of course they'd say that in the programme. It's club sponsored propaganda. If the atmosphere was so good, why was the manager compelled to make several players train with the kids, throw players under the bus in public and castigate Bojan on the radio when he wasn't even making the squad? To quote Homer Simpson, "everything looks bad if you remember it". 4) McClean wasn't 'just what we needed' as a winger and didn't fit into Rowett's 4-3-3. 5) Completely made up tosh about not being allowed to sign a left back. Clucas was signed because Rowett had long had a hard on for him and he has largely been poor. 6) Cuco was signed as first choice, not back up. 7) James Chester didn't want to come. You took against Jones from day one and your desperate attempts to portray Rowett as anything other than disaster are leading to some outright, bare faced lies.
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Post by stokeson on May 30, 2019 21:27:06 GMT
You're arguing two different things entirely though. 1) Jones should have done better than he did, no question. I don't think anyone's really disputing that. 2) That doesn't make a comparison with Rowett fair. It's Rowett's team and Rowett's response to inheriting a mess was to create an even bigger one that Jones is now having to deal with. But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to. Best post since the end of the season bar none.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 30, 2019 21:29:02 GMT
But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to. Best post since the end of the season bar none. It’s a load of complete cock riddled with quite clear inaccuracies and fallacies.
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Post by Pugsley on May 30, 2019 21:53:02 GMT
You're arguing two different things entirely though. 1) Jones should have done better than he did, no question. I don't think anyone's really disputing that. 2) That doesn't make a comparison with Rowett fair. It's Rowett's team and Rowett's response to inheriting a mess was to create an even bigger one that Jones is now having to deal with. But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to. A superbly written piece of fiction.
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Post by milky on May 31, 2019 6:32:08 GMT
You're arguing two different things entirely though. 1) Jones should have done better than he did, no question. I don't think anyone's really disputing that. 2) That doesn't make a comparison with Rowett fair. It's Rowett's team and Rowett's response to inheriting a mess was to create an even bigger one that Jones is now having to deal with. But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to. You are either on a massive wind up or you've completely lost your marbles.
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Post by RAF on May 31, 2019 6:53:27 GMT
But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to. You are either on a massive wind up or you've completely lost your marbles. There is a third option and that is that he is a massive throbbing pipe! H
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Post by milky on May 31, 2019 7:41:31 GMT
You are either on a massive wind up or you've completely lost your marbles. There is a third option and that is that he is a massive throbbing pipe! H If he believes any of that utter drivel he wrote then absolutely!
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Post by thehoof on May 31, 2019 8:17:30 GMT
A recent Q&A session with a couple of Stoke players led to the following assessment of Rowett by the players in question- the least said about GR the better. Like all players they will perhaps have their own axe to grind, but it doesn’t give the impression that Rowett had created great team spirit does it?
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Post by milky on May 31, 2019 9:25:59 GMT
A recent Q&A session with a couple of Stoke players led to the following assessment of Rowett by the players in question- the least said about GR the better. Like all players they will perhaps have their own axe to grind, but it doesn’t give the impression that Rowett had created great team spirit does it? The jury is still out on Jones but Rowett was an absolute car crash and in his short spell has probably set this club back 3 or 4 years. I actually think he may have been a decent fit when we first wanted him post Hughes but he was never the man to get us back up first attempt with a 50 million budget.
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Post by stokeson on May 31, 2019 13:22:46 GMT
Choirboys out in force....
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 31, 2019 14:43:43 GMT
Choirboys out in force.... Bullshit merchants as well...
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Post by robstokie on May 31, 2019 14:51:05 GMT
Let's look at what we've been linked with so far.
Gregory - Ok, he hit double figures in a struggling Millwall team last season and he puts himself about - but what does he really offer us in terms of quality, penetration and pace. Not a lot. Plus he's nearly 31 and has only played 2 seasons at this level, and I thought we were looking to bring in youth who had something to prove, not continuing with stockpiling old plodders who have passed their prime years. Wouldn't be a bad back up/competition if we got rid of Afobe and bought in a nippy little poacher type too, but he's not someone who I would have as a regular starter, and, if we are keeping Afobe, the priority must be someone who can run in behind.
Davies - doesn't convince me in the slightest, good shot stopper, but a poor communicator and not a presence that can organise those in front of him. Plus has a howler or 2 in him. Plus he's 27 so the bad habits in his game are most likely too ingrained in him to train out of. Would rather go for an experienced solid head who knows this league inside out, such as Stockdale or John Ruddy
Powell - Obviously has a lot of quality and can be a match winner, when he feels like it. 2 concerns here, firstly his injury record, he seems to pick up a lot of niggly little injuries. Secondly, his attitude - he obviously has the quality to play at a higher level, but he drifts in and out of games and loses his head.
Arter - has a good left foot, obviously decent on the ball and has a good engine, but, again, coming up to 30, will probably demand a highish wage and has hardly played for a year so would take time to readjust, particularly to the physicality of the championship. I would personally look to bring in someone younger and promote Sorensen to the first permanently.
Senior holding mid - this is exactly what we need to be moving away from to be honest - as much as I love Whelan (who it most likely is) bringing in a 35 year old into a midfield which lacks dynacism, pace and physicality would be a joke. What we need is someone a bit younger who has experience of this division but also has legs (think in the age bracket of 26-28, a solid 6 footer who can read the game, a good ball winner and a vocal presence to organise them around him)
One area that also needs addressing is the area of left back. I know James Justin has been heavily linked but 1 he's primarily right-sided and I would rather have a square peg in a square hole and 2 the fee being bandied about is too much of a risk for a boy who has had one good season in league 1 in a side that has got momentum behind them. Don't get me wrong, as cover/competition as well as an actual left back, he would be a good addition for the right price. I hope we will address it thoroughly instead of chucking BMI or Clucas in there. Would be tempted to go for Joe Bryan from Fulham, he would be perfect for the diamond, and with the drop in income for Fulham next season, we could get for a reasonable price.
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Post by blackpoolred on May 31, 2019 17:30:24 GMT
But that is absolute rubbish. Rowett inherited a team/squad that arguably needed changing in its entirety, you could have made an argument that every single player in that squad needed to go or needing replacing. They players were either passed their sell by date, crocked, dreadful attitude or all three. Prior to his arrival we had won one competitive game of football in 2018, which included defeats to tier 2 & 3 teams in the cup – we were utterly incapable of winning/competing in a game of football. Yet prior to his defeat to Brizzle(and his sacking) we had lost 1 game in a 11 and had won 3 home games on the bounce at home(been a few years since that has happened) and was playing some good attacking football, the Villa game WAS superb, read the Brizzle program and you will see the player focus interview telling you that Rowett had totally changed the team ethos and created a fantastic dressing room. On to his signings: Afobe – Looked like a great signing at the time, did not get the best out of him, still might come good and NJ preferred him to Vokes toward the end of the season – will be part of NJ’s squad – upfront he did get some change out of Bera though, which no other manager managed at Stoke Ince – Heading for player of the season on early form, had a dip around xmas and NJ has struggled to get the best out of him. Will still be part of NJ’s plans. Mclean – Good player and exactly what we needed in what was a weak ass pushover of a midfield – will never be liked by Stoke fans for the poppy thing – versatile to and looks decent in defence – will be part of NJ’s plans Clucas – Decent utility signing, brought in because Rowett was not allowed to pay big bucks for 1 high paid left back to warm the bench, needed backup/competition for a man who was struggling to play 50 odd games a season(Pieter’s). Had the sense to keep Pieter’s though and provide backup - unlike his successor who suddenly found himself with no left back at all after he moved Pieter’s on(remind you of another Welsh wizard) Cuco/Williams – brought in on loan as backup/competition in defensive areas because the transfer team failed to land any of Rowetts defensive targets – but what about that though – a manager who actually had backup in all defensive positions. Took NJ 1 week to send us back to square one and where we were with Hughes: No left-back at all and 1 viable right-back on our books James Chester being the most high profile of Rowetts defensive targets – the guy who lifted the play-off trophy for Villa – looked a cracking player and miles better than anything we had, but we know how good our transfer team are. Woods – Voted championship midfielder of the year prior to joining Stoke, started brilliantly and lost confidence for some reason in December. Never really given a good run out by NJ, possibly could not handle a big club and the expectation The 5 signings(so far) of NJ look mediocre at best and unlike the OP they do not fill me with the remotest bit of optimism and as stated are not what he promised, but on that note there will never be a manager that makes every signing a perfect one. Rowett said after he left he was trying to highlight some of the difficulties there were at the club to the fans and unfortunately that came across as having a go at the fans. The Coates regime hated him as he challenged the egos that run our club and they could not wait to feck him off. We surely needed somebody like that challenging the very people who seem to be running our club into the ground No he was not perfect, but he was definitely not clueless in any way shape or form. The clueless ones were the fans/chairman who thought that shambles of a squad was going to go straight back to the prem . We were in massive danger, in my opinion, of going straight through to tier three and that is now being highlighted as we now do have somebody who looks clueless or at least out of his depth at this moment of time - in charge of our club. Rowett left the side in a better state than he found it and nobody was going to improve that squad to be world beaters in just 1 window – as you keep eluding to with our current manager it is going to take time and always was going to. You've got a fucking nerve to accuse me of talking rubbish and then follow it up with that steaming horse manure, Jesus Christ where to start... 1) You couldn't have made an argument that every single player in the squad needed replacing. We didn't even finish bottom of the league, so why you're painting us as Sunderland mark 2 I'm not sure. 2) Rowett's 'unbeaten run' was precisely one game longer than Jones'. Both were unconvincing and filled with disappointing draws. Even the wins were poor as we laboured to even manage a shot on target at home to dross like Ipswich and Millwall. 3) Of course they'd say that in the programme. It's club sponsored propaganda. If the atmosphere was so good, why was the manager compelled to make several players train with the kids, throw players under the bus in public and castigate Bojan on the radio when he wasn't even making the squad? To quote Homer Simpson, "everything looks bad if you remember it". 4) McClean wasn't 'just what we needed' as a winger and didn't fit into Rowett's 4-3-3. 5) Completely made up tosh about not being allowed to sign a left back. Clucas was signed because Rowett had long had a hard on for him and he has largely been poor. 6) Cuco was signed as first choice, not back up. 7) James Chester didn't want to come. You took against Jones from day one and your desperate attempts to portray Rowett as anything other than disaster are leading to some outright, bare faced lies. I could have taken all 7 of your points and told you why I disagree with all of them. But we could go on forever. There was a squad of close to 30 players here when Rowett arrived and he was able to bring in handful and get rid of some deadwood in his short time here. Quite how that has set us back 4 years, even if you don't like any of his signings, is beyond me. Surely the previous regimes had something to do with our current problems - It can't all be Rowett's fault You did ask me to explain myself and talk about the players Rowett signed and I have. I am still looking for a similar in-depth explanation from you or any of the other trolls on this board as to what NJ offers us and what you think of his signings/performance so far - without using Rowett as an excuse for anything or referencing Rowett in any way. All I have got so far is arguments against Rowett(nothing about NJ) or just trolled by people not brave enough to have an opinion of there own. So come on give me the breakdown on NJ(No more Rowett) - I am genuinely interested as to why he brings so much optimism to our masses and I may yet be enlightened.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 31, 2019 17:51:28 GMT
You've got a fucking nerve to accuse me of talking rubbish and then follow it up with that steaming horse manure, Jesus Christ where to start... 1) You couldn't have made an argument that every single player in the squad needed replacing. We didn't even finish bottom of the league, so why you're painting us as Sunderland mark 2 I'm not sure. 2) Rowett's 'unbeaten run' was precisely one game longer than Jones'. Both were unconvincing and filled with disappointing draws. Even the wins were poor as we laboured to even manage a shot on target at home to dross like Ipswich and Millwall. 3) Of course they'd say that in the programme. It's club sponsored propaganda. If the atmosphere was so good, why was the manager compelled to make several players train with the kids, throw players under the bus in public and castigate Bojan on the radio when he wasn't even making the squad? To quote Homer Simpson, "everything looks bad if you remember it". 4) McClean wasn't 'just what we needed' as a winger and didn't fit into Rowett's 4-3-3. 5) Completely made up tosh about not being allowed to sign a left back. Clucas was signed because Rowett had long had a hard on for him and he has largely been poor. 6) Cuco was signed as first choice, not back up. 7) James Chester didn't want to come. You took against Jones from day one and your desperate attempts to portray Rowett as anything other than disaster are leading to some outright, bare faced lies. I could have taken all 7 of your points and told you why I disagree with all of them. But we could go on forever. There was a squad of close to 30 players here when Rowett arrived and he was able to bring in handful and get rid of some deadwood in his short time here. Quite how that has set us back 4 years, even if you don't like any of his signings, is beyond me. Surely the previous regimes had something to do with our current problems - It can't all be Rowett's fault You did ask me to explain myself and talk about the players Rowett signed and I have. I am still looking for a similar in-depth explanation from you or any of the other trolls on this board as to what NJ offers us and what you think of his signings/performance so far - without using Rowett as an excuse for anything or referencing Rowett in any way. All I have got so far is arguments against Rowett(nothing about NJ) or just trolled by people not brave enough to have an opinion of there own. So come on give me the breakdown on NJ(No more Rowett) - I am genuinely interested as to why he brings so much optimism to our masses and I may yet be enlightened. Another tiresome straw man. Yeah I asked you to talk about the signings and it was at best ill-informed and one-eyed and in some cases just flat out wrong. The stuff on the left back, on McClean and on Martina in particular was eye watering nonsense. Don’t get me started on ‘the programme said there was a great atmosphere among the lads’, that looks like a calculated wind up. I don’t know if Jones is the right man or not. I hope he is, particularly because if he succeeds he’ll have essentially rebuilt us as a more exciting, energetic side than the moribund, joyless shit we’ve had to watch for years. You’ve constantly compared the job he’s done with the job Rowett’s done. The point is that Rowett was allowed to create HIS team with the biggest budget in the league. Jones hasn’t yet. The appointment is one that suggests we want to create something long term, not a quick fix with the latest Jurassic dullard, and I’m up for that. Results haven’t been good enough so far but I like that by the end of the season there was more energy about the team wedded to organisation, I like that he sought to build around Etebo, a conundrum too tough for the previous joker, I like that he’s prepared to play young players and I’m excited at the possibility he’ll look to create a Championship version of his free scoring Luton team.
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Post by blackpoolred on May 31, 2019 19:04:24 GMT
I could have taken all 7 of your points and told you why I disagree with all of them. But we could go on forever. There was a squad of close to 30 players here when Rowett arrived and he was able to bring in handful and get rid of some deadwood in his short time here. Quite how that has set us back 4 years, even if you don't like any of his signings, is beyond me. Surely the previous regimes had something to do with our current problems - It can't all be Rowett's fault You did ask me to explain myself and talk about the players Rowett signed and I have. I am still looking for a similar in-depth explanation from you or any of the other trolls on this board as to what NJ offers us and what you think of his signings/performance so far - without using Rowett as an excuse for anything or referencing Rowett in any way. All I have got so far is arguments against Rowett(nothing about NJ) or just trolled by people not brave enough to have an opinion of there own. So come on give me the breakdown on NJ(No more Rowett) - I am genuinely interested as to why he brings so much optimism to our masses and I may yet be enlightened. Another tiresome straw man. Yeah I asked you to talk about the signings and it was at best ill-informed and one-eyed and in some cases just flat out wrong. The stuff on the left back, on McClean and on Martina in particular was eye watering nonsense. Don’t get me started on ‘the programme said there was a great atmosphere among the lads’, that looks like a calculated wind up. I don’t know if Jones is the right man or not. I hope he is, particularly because if he succeeds he’ll have essentially rebuilt us as a more exciting, energetic side than the moribund, joyless shit we’ve had to watch for years. You’ve constantly compared the job he’s done with the job Rowett’s done. The point is that Rowett was allowed to create HIS team with the biggest budget in the league. Jones hasn’t yet. The appointment is one that suggests we want to create something long term, not a quick fix with the latest Jurassic dullard, and I’m up for that. Results haven’t been good enough so far but I like that by the end of the season there was more energy about the team wedded to organisation, I like that he sought to build around Etebo, a conundrum too tough for the previous joker, I like that he’s prepared to play young players and I’m excited at the possibility he’ll look to create a Championship version of his free scoring Luton team. The OP was about how glorious the signings have been by NJ while slating Rowett - so my original reply was to that - which you took umbrage to. I asked for a reply without mentioning Rowett - you failed I like that NJ got the best out of Etebo and built around him too, but if he goes we could have Whelan back - the guy the moribund signed, not exactly youth either. Not sure the team was any better at the end of the season - we arguably got worse. I like the idea of a free-scoring version of Luton, but so far his team struggle to create chances let alone score goals and there was no evidence in the 2nd half of the season that we are anywhere near being like that, we still lack goals and not sure any of his signings so far point to an upcoming goal fest
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Post by milky on May 31, 2019 19:44:59 GMT
You've got a fucking nerve to accuse me of talking rubbish and then follow it up with that steaming horse manure, Jesus Christ where to start... 1) You couldn't have made an argument that every single player in the squad needed replacing. We didn't even finish bottom of the league, so why you're painting us as Sunderland mark 2 I'm not sure. 2) Rowett's 'unbeaten run' was precisely one game longer than Jones'. Both were unconvincing and filled with disappointing draws. Even the wins were poor as we laboured to even manage a shot on target at home to dross like Ipswich and Millwall. 3) Of course they'd say that in the programme. It's club sponsored propaganda. If the atmosphere was so good, why was the manager compelled to make several players train with the kids, throw players under the bus in public and castigate Bojan on the radio when he wasn't even making the squad? To quote Homer Simpson, "everything looks bad if you remember it". 4) McClean wasn't 'just what we needed' as a winger and didn't fit into Rowett's 4-3-3. 5) Completely made up tosh about not being allowed to sign a left back. Clucas was signed because Rowett had long had a hard on for him and he has largely been poor. 6) Cuco was signed as first choice, not back up. 7) James Chester didn't want to come. You took against Jones from day one and your desperate attempts to portray Rowett as anything other than disaster are leading to some outright, bare faced lies. I could have taken all 7 of your points and told you why I disagree with all of them. But we could go on forever. There was a squad of close to 30 players here when Rowett arrived and he was able to bring in handful and get rid of some deadwood in his short time here. Quite how that has set us back 4 years, even if you don't like any of his signings, is beyond me. Surely the previous regimes had something to do with our current problems - It can't all be Rowett's fault You did ask me to explain myself and talk about the players Rowett signed and I have. I am still looking for a similar in-depth explanation from you or any of the other trolls on this board as to what NJ offers us and what you think of his signings/performance so far - without using Rowett as an excuse for anything or referencing Rowett in any way. All I have got so far is arguments against Rowett(nothing about NJ) or just trolled by people not brave enough to have an opinion of there own. So come on give me the breakdown on NJ(No more Rowett) - I am genuinely interested as to why he brings so much optimism to our masses and I may yet be enlightened. Is it any wonder people keep mentioning Rowett considering the made up nonsense you keep spouting in his defence ? How he was so hard done by , how he did so well to not have us in the bottom 3 having the biggest budget in the league.Yet at the same time a man with no managerial experience to speak of effortlessly had West Brom in the top 6 ( yes that same West Brom who we finished above the previous season )And he still paid the price! As for Jones most have conceded the jury is still out but surely he deserves a full pre season and a chance to build his own team...you know, like your hero Gary had.If by Christmas there is no improvement then fair enough. Bottom line here is you were one of Sir Tonys' most fervent disciples so it stands to reason you'd love his surrogate son. No trolling here.You are just talking bollocks.Some of it conjecture at best , the rest completely made up shit.
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Post by blackpoolred on May 31, 2019 20:14:52 GMT
I could have taken all 7 of your points and told you why I disagree with all of them. But we could go on forever. There was a squad of close to 30 players here when Rowett arrived and he was able to bring in handful and get rid of some deadwood in his short time here. Quite how that has set us back 4 years, even if you don't like any of his signings, is beyond me. Surely the previous regimes had something to do with our current problems - It can't all be Rowett's fault You did ask me to explain myself and talk about the players Rowett signed and I have. I am still looking for a similar in-depth explanation from you or any of the other trolls on this board as to what NJ offers us and what you think of his signings/performance so far - without using Rowett as an excuse for anything or referencing Rowett in any way. All I have got so far is arguments against Rowett(nothing about NJ) or just trolled by people not brave enough to have an opinion of there own. So come on give me the breakdown on NJ(No more Rowett) - I am genuinely interested as to why he brings so much optimism to our masses and I may yet be enlightened. Is it any wonder people keep mentioning Rowett considering the made up nonsense you keep spouting in his defence ? How he was so hard done by , how he did so well to not have us in the bottom 3 having the biggest budget in the league.Yet at the same time a man with no managerial experience to speak of effortlessly had West Brom in the top 6 ( yes that same West Brom who we finished above the previous season )And he still paid the price! As for Jones most have conceded the jury is still out but surely he deserves a full pre season and a chance to build his own team...you know, like your hero Gary had.If by Christmas there is no improvement then fair enough. Bottom line here is you were one of Sir Tonys' most fervent disciples so it stands to reason you'd love his surrogate son. No trolling here.You are just talking bollocks.Some of it conjecture at best , the rest completely made up shit. So if the WBA manager got a top 6 finish with no managerial experience and was given the bullet and Rowett deserved to go after half a season because you thought he should have at least compared to his WBA counterpart with the players he had(we were only a couple of points of the play-offs when he left), then what should have happened to NJ who could not average a point a game in his half a season.
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Post by robstokie on May 31, 2019 20:35:48 GMT
Another thing that worries me is if we hand out massive contracts like we have in the past. Ain't Afobe, Ince, Jimmy, Clucas, Batth and Vokes all got 3 years left? What's the odds were going to hand Gregory, a 30, nearly 31 year old journeyman who's highest level has been in a bottom 6 championship side a 4 year deal on 20-25 grand a week? I wouldn't put it past Scholes and Cartwright to do that.
Surely, with regards to Gregory, we should be looking 2 years on 10-12k a week, possibly with a automatic 1 year extension and a bonus equivalent to 6 weeks wages if he hits say 15 goals in a season. I'm using Gregory as my example because we've signed players of a similar age on long term deals.
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Post by milky on May 31, 2019 20:42:20 GMT
Is it any wonder people keep mentioning Rowett considering the made up nonsense you keep spouting in his defence ? How he was so hard done by , how he did so well to not have us in the bottom 3 having the biggest budget in the league.Yet at the same time a man with no managerial experience to speak of effortlessly had West Brom in the top 6 ( yes that same West Brom who we finished above the previous season )And he still paid the price! As for Jones most have conceded the jury is still out but surely he deserves a full pre season and a chance to build his own team...you know, like your hero Gary had.If by Christmas there is no improvement then fair enough. Bottom line here is you were one of Sir Tonys' most fervent disciples so it stands to reason you'd love his surrogate son. No trolling here.You are just talking bollocks.Some of it conjecture at best , the rest completely made up shit. So if the WBA manager got a top 6 finish with no managerial experience and was given the bullet and Rowett deserved to go after half a season because you thought he should have at least compared to his WBA counterpart with the players he had(we were only a couple of points of the play-offs when he left), then what should have happened to NJ who could not average a point a game in his half a season. That well known pragmatist PC made it pretty clear we were going all out to try and get back up at the first attempt and was actually quoted as saying top 6 was the minimum requirement. It became pretty obvious by New Years Day that Rowett wasnt capable of achieving it..in fact he made things worse.Jones then inherited the shit players ( your words not mine )that Rowett inherited plus the ones he had signed.Sure there is a good argument NJ should have done better than he did but like I say he can only be judged after a full pre season with ( hopefully) some ins and outs.Surely that's fair ? Its the only way the 2 managers can be compared. You cant claim Rowett did a fantastic job to keep us out of the bottom 3 then suddenly move the goalposts when Jones arrives. Bottom line , Rowett was a disaster given the money he spent and the fact he and his 20,000 coaches had a full pre reason to get their shit together. Jones may well also prove to be a disaster but only time will tell on that one.
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Post by blackpoolred on May 31, 2019 21:11:29 GMT
So if the WBA manager got a top 6 finish with no managerial experience and was given the bullet and Rowett deserved to go after half a season because you thought he should have at least compared to his WBA counterpart with the players he had(we were only a couple of points of the play-offs when he left), then what should have happened to NJ who could not average a point a game in his half a season. That well known pragmatist PC made it pretty clear we were going all out to try and get back up at the first attempt and was actually quoted as saying top 6 was the minimum requirement. It became pretty obvious by New Years Day that Rowett wasnt capable of achieving it..in fact he made things worse.Jones then inherited the shit players ( your words not mine )that Rowett inherited plus the ones he had signed.Sure there is a good argument NJ should have done better than he did but like I say he can only be judged after a full pre season with ( hopefully) some ins and outs.Surely that's fair ? Its the only way the 2 managers can be compared. You cant claim Rowett did a fantastic job to keep us out of the bottom 3 then suddenly move the goalposts when Jones arrives. Bottom line , Rowett was a disaster given the money he spent and the fact he and his 20,000 coaches had a full pre reason to get their shit together. Jones may well also prove to be a disaster but only time will tell on that one. How do we know he would not have got us to the play-offs - We were on a decent run, you and others spout about giving NJ time - was it fair to give a man just half a season to turn round what was a shambles of a club. It became clear by the end of January, however, that our only priority was to get to 50pts ASAP. Rowett brought in a handful of full-time players and it might have escaped your attention, but we couldn't get rid of the vast majority of our wonderful squad that finished above WBA(as you stated). NJ could have recalled those players who were responsible for finishing above WBA and disregarded Rowett's signings totally. The reality is that he used the players that Rowett brought in because they were an improvement on the shite we had in our squad. The other reality is that the clueless one was almost twice as effective with those players.
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