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Post by toppercorner on May 19, 2019 11:13:55 GMT
20m up front / one instalment +5m plays 50 champions league games +2m captains ManU at any point +2m 200 1st team appearances +1m scores 20+ goals 25% sell on Don't forget international appearances, cuz you can guarantee he'll be called up for the 1st team squad the day he steps one foot through the door at Old Trafford!!! yep, forgot that one!
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Post by davejohnno1 on May 19, 2019 11:17:08 GMT
It really isnt that difficult to see why he did that. Are you suggesting he wrapped him in cotton wool knowing of Man Utd's interest? I'd not thought of it from that angle to be fair. My two scenarios are that our manager is so good that he didn't play Collins so as to hide him from prying eyes so we have him for our promotion push next season or that the manager is a clown who talks a good game but doesn't know his arse from his elbow. I'm pretty sure you can work out which side of the fence I sit on.
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Post by Olgrligm on May 19, 2019 11:19:22 GMT
Are you suggesting he wrapped him in cotton wool knowing of Man Utd's interest? I'd not thought of it from that angle to be fair. My two scenarios are that our manager is so good that he didn't play Collins so as to hide him from prying eyes so we have him for our promotion push next season or that the manager is a clown who talks a good game but doesn't know his arse from his elbow. I'm pretty sure you can work out which side of the fence I sit on. Assuming that he is actually any good and that Darren Fletcher is a better judge of young talent than, say, Ricardo Fuller or Thomas Sørensen!
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Post by nott1 on May 19, 2019 11:19:54 GMT
Straight swap for Rashford or no deal!
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Post by davejohnno1 on May 19, 2019 11:22:20 GMT
I'd not thought of it from that angle to be fair. My two scenarios are that our manager is so good that he didn't play Collins so as to hide him from prying eyes so we have him for our promotion push next season or that the manager is a clown who talks a good game but doesn't know his arse from his elbow. I'm pretty sure you can work out which side of the fence I sit on. Assuming that he is actually any good and that Darren Fletcher is a better judge of young talent than, say, Ricardo Fuller or Thomas Sørensen! Nathan Collins is clearly a hugely talented centre half who will undoubtedly go on to bigger and better things than stoke city. Him not featuring in our final few games of the season after his debut at Swansea was an absolute travesty and another worrying aspect reference Jones actual ability to deliver what we all want.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 19, 2019 11:23:51 GMT
So hard to know with fees these days.
Every summer they get more out of step and incomparable with what's come before and it's complicated where it's all based on potential rather than experience with such a young player.
Can't go far wrong if you basically tie it to appearances.
Might be being a bit cautious, but I'd go for something like:
An initial 10
With an extra 2 for every 20 league appearances up to 100 - which gets you to about 20.
If he plays 100 games for Man United, he's worth £20m in anyone's book.
Then chuck in a few more bells and whistles about Champions League qualification, titles, international caps (although international caps will follow as night follows day as soon as he signs. Not sure about the titles though!)
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 11:24:41 GMT
Very disappointing if true Why not adopt the Chelsea philosophy and send him out on loan there and get him back once he’s had more experience ( to Man Utd) 😃 Including him in our first team set up shows our intentions as a club and will attract young players who can see a realistic progression from our academy and elsewhere Alongside experienced players e.g Bath, he has a very good chance of first team football here We never "showed our intensions". The only reason Collins got chances at 17/11 was because the other centrebacks were unavailable and Edwards was sent off/suspended. Although he played better than anyone, as soon as the old guard became available again, Collins was dropped. So in a manner of saying Jones did show his intention, and it wasn't a good one.
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Post by nott1 on May 19, 2019 11:25:50 GMT
Are you suggesting he wrapped him in cotton wool knowing of Man Utd's interest? I'd not thought of it from that angle to be fair. My two scenarios are that our manager is so good that he didn't play Collins so as to hide him from prying eyes so we have him for our promotion push next season or that the manager is a clown who talks a good game but doesn't know his arse from his elbow. I'm pretty sure you can work out which side of the fence I sit on. The latter I'm sure!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 11:35:36 GMT
Cheers Darren, you fucking snake. I doubt that Fletcher is the snake here. I don't believe he can assume responsibility for putting them on his trail. Manure will have been well aware of Collins already from watching him for Ireland and from their own scouts in youth football. Anyone could see for themselves his great potential, everyone except Stoke's managers, of course. The only thing Fletcher could tell them that they did not know already is what his character and personality is like. You can't blame Fletcher for answering a simple question. If we were on the trail of one of their youths, and put in a question to Fletcher, we'd expect him to return an honest assessment.
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Post by banksisgod on May 19, 2019 11:44:09 GMT
It's so depressing, yet so utterly predictable. I've been banging on about this boy for a good while now, hoping that we could get promoted with him still on the books, thus giving us some chance to hold on to him. But he is just that good, and with so much more to come as he develops physically and experience-wise.
You'd never know; maybe it's all bullshit. Or maybe those close to him might warn him about making such a move too soon. God knows, enough talented young players have gone too early to clubs like United, and been seduced by the money and the bright lights, (not to mention being surrounded by absolute and complete wankers), only to be never heard of again.
One can only hope. On the other hand, the club can make him an irresistible five-year offer, including the codisil that he can leave if we don't get promoted in, say, three years. Jesus, it's hard to imagine, but even if that happened, he'd still only be twenty-one.
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Post by tosh on May 19, 2019 11:49:15 GMT
I'd not thought of it from that angle to be fair. My two scenarios are that our manager is so good that he didn't play Collins so as to hide him from prying eyes so we have him for our promotion push next season or that the manager is a clown who talks a good game but doesn't know his arse from his elbow. I'm pretty sure you can work out which side of the fence I sit on. Assuming that he is actually any good and that Darren Fletcher is a better judge of young talent than, say, Ricardo Fuller or Thomas Sørensen! Having seen him play only four times (admittedly not the recommended twenty five!) I am convinced that this lad is a real talent. As well as a big strong defender he seems an excellent passer of the ball. Seems a good character too. Certainly raises questions about why Nathan didn’t play him more at the end of the season. www.givemesport.com/1313740-irelands-u17-captain-nathan-collins-gave-a-brilliant-interview-after-infamous-exit
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Post by metalhead on May 19, 2019 11:56:34 GMT
a bid of 1m will come in and we'll snap their hands off and party in the boardroom. With pizza and cake. Cartwright will be doing his dance around the office again, the fat fuck.
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Post by baystokie on May 19, 2019 11:59:39 GMT
From the responses of despair and pessimism on here, you could imagine that the papers were reporting that Collins had signed for Utd. The knee-jerk responses to rumour, media tittle-tattle, the wafflings of reporters etc will presumably see another 200 page thread before the end of this window. By all means have opinions but please make some of them based on what HAS happened rather than what MIGHT/COULD/MAY happen. Anyone for depression or a heart attack?
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Post by dreamtheater on May 19, 2019 12:09:14 GMT
To be fair baystokie - Stoke City have much 'previous' in these matters i.e. happy to pay OTT fees wages and contract durations for those incoming whilst, letting our own assets leave 'for a song'. ( Recent obvious examples, Maclean, Ince and Shakiri )
AND SO - The same incumbents responsible for the mess we are in are largely still there so, cue :-
incompetence - capitulation and - abject failure
especially in such matters as these
Negotiating with our club is demonstrably like:- 'taking candy from a baby'
And. the lad himself has already said - next season I am expecting to play in the first team on a regular basis
so cue - another monster fuck up - sad to say !
and anybody with half a brain can see this unfolding the way I suspect it will - a mile off
and yes werrington, I am saying this - again
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 12:18:28 GMT
If he was at ajax they'd know they have to start the bidding at 30m. At stoke, 30 quid because they know we can't and haven't ever sold a player for a price. Also a bit of a difference between a 19 year old who has played over 50 first team games last year, including 17 in the Champs League as they reached the semi finals... and a 17 year old who made a break through in the Championship.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on May 19, 2019 12:21:42 GMT
Looks a great prospect , not sure it's wise for him to go to a big club like United now , better to play for two or three years .
Our challenge is to structure a deal that will compensate us properly and if we can it will be a first .
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Post by tcdobinghoff on May 19, 2019 12:31:27 GMT
If he is uncertain about getting regular first team football here he can be certain he won’t be getting it at Manchester United.
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Post by mrcoke on May 19, 2019 12:40:45 GMT
I watched him at Boro, and whilst Boro were not a major attacking threat, he was very assured for a young man. It's to be expected that the big 6 clubs are going to "Hover up" all the young talent in the country. They can afford to hold onto all the young talent even if only 1 in 10 actually makes it into the first team regularly, and in Liverpool's case do it illegally. www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/liverpool-banned-signing-academy-players-fined-stokeMan U can put him in one of their young sides where he will be playing with players of equal huge talent and can develop. It's doubtful we could give him a regular first team place in the Championship at his young age, so a loan back probably wouldn't be possible. Best not to bleat about it, but to try and get a good deal him and move on. A good deal might be a CB from United that they have finished with, who could help us to promotion. Let's be grateful that at long last we are seeing some fruit from our academy and have a manager who is prepared to ripen it by giving youngsters a chance in the first XI. If Hughes, Lambert, or Rowett were still the manager, we might never have seen the lad play. I’m not sure about this, Ryan was a teenager when he started the season in 2007, albeit a bit older than Collins is now. I can’t see why he couldn’t get a bench spot / start when the main pairing are injured or banned. Realistically he could get 20 odd games in? Regardless though I suspect that if a bid comes in, it will more be a case of how much we can get rather than if he leaves. I would love you to be right, but it is very rare for teenagers to be playing regularly in the top divisions, hence I said it is doubtful he would play regularly.
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Post by themistocles on May 19, 2019 12:58:21 GMT
The reality is he's going. Just about getting the best deal we can from them
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 19, 2019 13:01:00 GMT
Can't see him going for any more than 5m.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on May 19, 2019 13:05:51 GMT
Ffs! I’ve been banging on about how good this lad looked for a fair while. Always thought he’d the potential to be a top class player but I thought I’d see him playing for us for another couple of seasons. Very disappointing if true
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Post by dreamtheater on May 19, 2019 13:11:41 GMT
Can't see him going for any more than 5m. With the greatest of respect mr Hackett - you Portray EXACTLY the mentality of those who run and seemingly surround the football club SO One of the largest, if not largest football money spinners on the entire planet come to us to enquire about purchasing an asset and we immediately, 'cowtow in a smalltown way ' and put some number to it that isn't intended to offend the bigger neighbour and thats probably Stoke City's biggest failing i.e. 'we know our place sur - we are lucky to be speaking to such a massive club - whilst bowing deferentially' instead of -- 'fuck you ! hes our asset - and if you really want him you'd better get your seriously big fucking cheque book out'
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Post by JoeinOz on May 19, 2019 13:14:22 GMT
Can't see him going for any more than 5m. With the greatest of respect mr Hackett - you Portray EXACTLY the mentality of those who run and seemingly surround the football club SO One of the largest, if not largest football money spinners on the entire planet come to us to purchase an asset and we immediately, 'cowtow in a smalltown way ' and thats probably Stoke City's biggest failing 'we know our place sur - we are lucky to be speaking to such a massive club - whilst bowing deferentially' have all them topograhic oceans rotted your brain? It isn't quite that. It's more that he's going and the shit will refuse to pay anymore. The player can either stay and sulk or we can take what we can.
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Post by dreamtheater on May 19, 2019 13:18:24 GMT
or, we can tell him hes very much in our first team plans - try him in the first team ? and if he sticks, we up the price tenfold
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Post by JoeinOz on May 19, 2019 13:27:38 GMT
or, we can tell him hes very much in our first team plans - try him in the first team ? and if he sticks, we up the price tenfold There should be an aim to phase in Colly and Verlo as first team regulars by the end of October.
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Post by berahinosgoals on May 19, 2019 13:33:45 GMT
Doesn't mean we have to accept any bid does it? Tell them bollocks
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Post by berahinosgoals on May 19, 2019 13:38:52 GMT
If he’s good enough for immediate action at 17 then that’ll be 30m please+ add ons. That's not unreasonable tbh, fuck man u. If he's that good we'll get 5 times more what man Utd will pay now if we get promoted, he improves and he impresses in the prem. Play him
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Post by cousindupree on May 19, 2019 13:40:16 GMT
Sadly if the shit come calling he will be gone and then probably loaned out. The pizza boys need to play hardball and get a decent deal. Sadly you just know the fee will be ........................................... undisclosed
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Post by FullerMagic on May 19, 2019 13:42:10 GMT
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Post by bhp on May 19, 2019 13:54:39 GMT
£15m for Dan James, be lucky get £5m for Collins. Add ons have got to be significant! Would be disappointed if he left.
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