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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 16, 2019 23:50:20 GMT
A thread about the champions league has become yet another load of examining the Stoke problems. Does everything have to come back to it? haha!!!....how the hell did Berahino, Rowett and Diouf get onto a Champions League Thread? they'd be blushing if they knew! Some of them would demand a pay rise of they knew mate!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 17, 2019 8:25:46 GMT
4-0 aggregate defeat , Scholes charged with illegal betting , Butt charged with domestic assault karma👍👍👍. may there be decades and decades of Shit to fall on them From here . So much so they look on this as a good day .
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Post by thevoid on Apr 17, 2019 8:49:37 GMT
I wonder if The Shit regret giving the job to Frodo now? 😂
He was appointed on the back of a run of wins against mainly poor or average sides. I'm just glad they didn't wait until the summer to make their mind up.
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 17, 2019 9:27:36 GMT
Ajax played The shit in the 2017 Europa League Final.
Since then, Ajax has a net spend of minus €19.45M on transfers while the shit has net spend of €200.25M on transfers.
Guess which one is in the semi-finals of the Champions League...
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Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 17, 2019 10:20:40 GMT
Ajax played The shit in the 2017 Europa League Final. Since then, Ajax has a net spend of minus €19.45M on transfers while the shit has net spend of €200.25M on transfers. Guess which one is in the semi-finals of the Champions League... That (the Ajax figure) is an amazing statistic. Have you the comparative number for SCFC by any chance? It won't be a wholly like for like comparison, because Ajax can attract players (on the basis of their name and history) we would not have had a sniff of. But I would be interested. I have a feeling we signed Kevin W in 2017 - costing more than E19.75m alone....
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 17, 2019 10:38:22 GMT
Please for footballs sake. For football's sake Ajax v Porto in the final would be best I think Ajax will win it.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 17, 2019 10:52:05 GMT
Scholes up for illegal betting and Butt up for alleged assault 😆
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 17, 2019 10:56:02 GMT
Ajax played The shit in the 2017 Europa League Final. Since then, Ajax has a net spend of minus €19.45M on transfers while the shit has net spend of €200.25M on transfers. Guess which one is in the semi-finals of the Champions League... That (the Ajax figure) is an amazing statistic. Have you the comparative number for SCFC by any chance? It won't be a wholly like for like comparison, because Ajax can attract players (on the basis of their name and history) we would not have had a sniff of. But I would be interested. I have a feeling we signed Kevin W in 2017 - costing more than E19.75m alone.... I'd rather Stoke spending was kept on the 432 thewsds which are on the subject at any time. 😀
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Apr 17, 2019 11:04:20 GMT
I wonder if The Shit regret giving the job to Frodo now? 😂 He was appointed on the back of a run of wins against mainly poor or average sides. I'm just glad they didn't wait until the summer to make their mind up. I said as much at the time, delighted with his appointment. Nothing worse than fans destroying a 'legend' and it will happen. Maybe our own Smithy was right not to take the job here!
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 17, 2019 12:00:44 GMT
I wonder if The Shit regret giving the job to Frodo now? 😂 He was appointed on the back of a run of wins against mainly poor or average sides. I'm just glad they didn't wait until the summer to make their mind up. I said as much at the time, delighted with his appointment. Nothing worse than fans destroying a 'legend' and it will happen. Maybe our own Smithy was right not to take the job here! Smithy yes. Imagine Stokies slagging Smithy off. Heartbreaking just to think about
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 17, 2019 12:41:35 GMT
Scholes up for illegal betting and Butt up for alleged assault 😆 Allegedly Butt is charged with running up to somebody getting in their face and screaming , when he realised he didnt it have 5 others alongside him and the person wasn’t going to agree with him and give him what he wants he lost his cool . Old Grandad red face has said as a result of this being reported he will not do any interviews with the BBC despite contractual obligations to do so and has ordered Mike Riley to appoint Howard Webb to sit on the judge the jury which will sit for 90 minutes or however long it takes until he is found not guilty . personally guilty or not I hope he gets the same judge as Papillion , and less favourable conditions of incarceration and takes his class mates with him after Salford city are relegated 50 leagues and old Trafford is repossessed by the banks and turned into a whore house .
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Apr 17, 2019 12:57:10 GMT
Ajax played The shit in the 2017 Europa League Final. Since then, Ajax has a net spend of minus €19.45M on transfers while the shit has net spend of €200.25M on transfers. Guess which one is in the semi-finals of the Champions League... Manchester United are stuck in pursuing an outdated form of player recruitment. Ajax have had to adapt to clubs like the aforementioned buying their best players nearly every year. They are still trying to shoehorn a manager into the club in a Ferguson mould when in reality, they should be looking at clubs like Ajax for progression. The appointment of Solskjaer is a naive one, the man has demonstrated very bad tactical awareness and other than a blistering start against weak Premier League opposition, and a 1/100 result in Paris they are pretty much exactly where they started.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Apr 17, 2019 13:06:32 GMT
Ajax played The shit in the 2017 Europa League Final. Since then, Ajax has a net spend of minus €19.45M on transfers while the shit has net spend of €200.25M on transfers. Guess which one is in the semi-finals of the Champions League... That (the Ajax figure) is an amazing statistic. Have you the comparative number for SCFC by any chance? It won't be a wholly like for like comparison, because Ajax can attract players (on the basis of their name and history) we would not have had a sniff of. But I would be interested. I have a feeling we signed Kevin W in 2017 - costing more than E19.75m alone.... I disagree to some extent, Ajax are a huge club but they don't sign huge players. Wolves have proven if you have the right recruitment pieces in place you can sign promising youngsters and employ them effectively which both clubs do. This is something we have never pursued. Wolves managed to land Ruben Neves, Joao Moutinho, Jiminez and Jota from similar clubs to Ajax through the sheer magnetism of the Premier League. We could have done that. Marc Overmars is doing wonders behind the scenes at Ajax but this is in spite of not signing big names, they are just intelligent in terms of recruitment. Onana, Ziyech, Dolberg, Neres, De Jong and more were signed by Ajax post their youth careers finishing or at age 18. That's not even mentioning their academy. All picked up on the cheap, and all relatively low risk. Our transfer approach is the opposite, signing players in key positions but at a very high risk if they don't work out. Norwich have done well this year following this mould, half their players are from 2nd tier German/Continental sides and have potential to develop accordingly. To achieve this they employed a director who specialised in this market. Until we shift out technical director on, whose expertise remains unknown the situation as a whole is unlikely to improve.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 17, 2019 13:31:13 GMT
That (the Ajax figure) is an amazing statistic. Have you the comparative number for SCFC by any chance? It won't be a wholly like for like comparison, because Ajax can attract players (on the basis of their name and history) we would not have had a sniff of. But I would be interested. I have a feeling we signed Kevin W in 2017 - costing more than E19.75m alone.... I disagree to some extent, Ajax are a huge club but they don't sign huge players. Wolves have proven if you have the right recruitment pieces in place you can sign promising youngsters and employ them effectively which both clubs do. This is something we have never pursued. Wolves managed to land Ruben Neves, Joao Moutinho, Jiminez and Jota from similar clubs to Ajax through the sheer magnetism of the Premier League. We could have done that. Marc Overmars is doing wonders behind the scenes at Ajax but this is in spite of not signing big names, they are just intelligent in terms of recruitment. Onana, Ziyech, Dolberg, Neres, De Jong and more were signed by Ajax post their youth careers finishing or at age 18. That's not even mentioning their academy. All picked up on the cheap, and all relatively low risk. Our transfer approach is the opposite, signing players in key positions but at a very high risk if they don't work out. Norwich have done well this year following this mould, half their players are from 2nd tier German/Continental sides and have potential to develop accordingly. To achieve this they employed a director who specialised in this market. Until we shift out technical director on, whose expertise remains unknown the situation as a whole is unlikely to improve. You know much more than me about the Ajax approach - which would not be difficult. My rather ill-informed take is that, even if they wanted to, they could not compete on wage terms with even mid-table PL clubs (like Wolves - or us a few years back). So they are forced by circumstance to take a different (and in their case) a more intelligent approach. But even if a club like Wolves can (as I assume is the case) outspend them, Ajax have a major edge by virtue of being a huge global name. And much more important, being able to offer CL football. Even more significant, on the basis of this year's performance, CL football right at the sharp end of the competition. I have no idea what Sevilla were able to offer N'Zonzi in contract terms. And I know that many on here think players are motivated almost to the exclusion of everything else by money. But what Sevilla had that we didn't was CL football. They also had Seville of course. And I am not saying it is a statement of fact, but some would say that Seville is a nicer place to be based than S-o-T. I also think Amsterdam might have the edge over Wolverhampton, btw.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Apr 17, 2019 13:44:28 GMT
I disagree to some extent, Ajax are a huge club but they don't sign huge players. Wolves have proven if you have the right recruitment pieces in place you can sign promising youngsters and employ them effectively which both clubs do. This is something we have never pursued. Wolves managed to land Ruben Neves, Joao Moutinho, Jiminez and Jota from similar clubs to Ajax through the sheer magnetism of the Premier League. We could have done that. Marc Overmars is doing wonders behind the scenes at Ajax but this is in spite of not signing big names, they are just intelligent in terms of recruitment. Onana, Ziyech, Dolberg, Neres, De Jong and more were signed by Ajax post their youth careers finishing or at age 18. That's not even mentioning their academy. All picked up on the cheap, and all relatively low risk. Our transfer approach is the opposite, signing players in key positions but at a very high risk if they don't work out. Norwich have done well this year following this mould, half their players are from 2nd tier German/Continental sides and have potential to develop accordingly. To achieve this they employed a director who specialised in this market. Until we shift out technical director on, whose expertise remains unknown the situation as a whole is unlikely to improve. You know much more than me about the Ajax approach - which would not be difficult. My rather ill-informed take is that, even if they wanted to, they could not compete on wage terms with even mid-table PL clubs (like Wolves - or us a few years back). So they are forced by circumstance to take a different (and in their case) a more intelligent approach. But even if a club like Wolves can (as I assume is the case) outspend them, Ajax have a major edge by virtue of being a huge global name. And much more important, being able to offer CL football. Even more significant, on the basis of this year's performance, CL football right at the sharp end of the competition. I have no idea what Sevilla were able to offer N'Zonzi in contract terms. And I know that many on here think players are motivated almost to the exclusion of everything else by money. But what Sevilla had that we didn't was CL football. They also had Seville of course. And I am not saying it is a statement of fact, but some would say that Seville is a nicer place to be based than S-o-T. I also think Amsterdam might have the edge over Wolverhampton, btw. I appreciate the point, and its certainly valid. I'd just say that Neves, Patricio, Dendoncker, Jiminez, Jota, Moutinho and Boly could all have been realistically playing for Champions League sides this year and indeed Neves once captained Porto in the Champions League (and then moved to the Championship to play for Wolves) Those players have left clubs like Porto, Benfica, Atletico Madrid and Sporting Lisbon. All clubs I associate with Ajax in terms of prestige. Now obviously, Stoke and Sevilla are poles apart, no denying that so what is making them stick around Wolverhampton instead? Money plays a part, but it's more the "project" that they've embarked on at Wolves, which has a clear roadmap to breaking into the top 6. What we had at the time was some kind of wishy washy reference to "self sufficiency " which to a player simply translates as treading water. So whilst we couldn't offer N'Zonzi Champions League football, we gave no indication to him that we were ever seeking to better ourselves either. Same with Arnautovic. It's a policy that ultimately saw our best players leave us and a failure in replacing them. You're right that Ajax are forced into that approach, and all I'm saying is it's becoming a more and more realistic and common one, because the super super clubs are now untouchable in terms of spending. Spurs were pioneers of this approach too, they've been building this side for 5 years or more. So whilst it's not like for like in terms of domestic success, I'd say in terms of Stoke "pushing on" was following the model laid out by Wolves and clubs like Ajax, even if it's to a lesser extent, but we didn't go down that route. We simply equated money to success and we still are doing it. The board love rolling out how much they spend, but if it's ineffective they need to analyse why it might be. Wolves carry themselves and sell themselves like a top 6 club, we insisted on being little old Stoke which isn't attractive to young, upcoming players and it's an issue that's plaguing us still. Finally just to conclude on Ajax, their only transfers since that final for players that I would expect most fans to have heard of are two experienced heads. Daley Blind and Klaas Jan Huntelaar. All other signings have been young players from South America (courtesy of Overmars running effective scouting) and from Dutch domestic football. All players picked up for a relative pittance. Whilst the clubs they are dumping out of the CL continue to spunk millions on less effective players before trying to flip them when they can't break into the first team.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 17, 2019 14:27:21 GMT
Interesting that Manchester 'Biggest Club in the World' United have won less European Cups than Ajax.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Apr 17, 2019 18:01:12 GMT
You know much more than me about the Ajax approach - which would not be difficult. My rather ill-informed take is that, even if they wanted to, they could not compete on wage terms with even mid-table PL clubs (like Wolves - or us a few years back). So they are forced by circumstance to take a different (and in their case) a more intelligent approach. But even if a club like Wolves can (as I assume is the case) outspend them, Ajax have a major edge by virtue of being a huge global name. And much more important, being able to offer CL football. Even more significant, on the basis of this year's performance, CL football right at the sharp end of the competition. I have no idea what Sevilla were able to offer N'Zonzi in contract terms. And I know that many on here think players are motivated almost to the exclusion of everything else by money. But what Sevilla had that we didn't was CL football. They also had Seville of course. And I am not saying it is a statement of fact, but some would say that Seville is a nicer place to be based than S-o-T. I also think Amsterdam might have the edge over Wolverhampton, btw. I appreciate the point, and its certainly valid. I'd just say that Neves, Patricio, Dendoncker, Jiminez, Jota, Moutinho and Boly could all have been realistically playing for Champions League sides this year and indeed Neves once captained Porto in the Champions League (and then moved to the Championship to play for Wolves) Those players have left clubs like Porto, Benfica, Atletico Madrid and Sporting Lisbon. All clubs I associate with Ajax in terms of prestige. Now obviously, Stoke and Sevilla are poles apart, no denying that so what is making them stick around Wolverhampton instead? Money plays a part, but it's more the "project" that they've embarked on at Wolves, which has a clear roadmap to breaking into the top 6. What we had at the time was some kind of wishy washy reference to "self sufficiency " which to a player simply translates as treading water. So whilst we couldn't offer N'Zonzi Champions League football, we gave no indication to him that we were ever seeking to better ourselves either. Same with Arnautovic. It's a policy that ultimately saw our best players leave us and a failure in replacing them. You're right that Ajax are forced into that approach, and all I'm saying is it's becoming a more and more realistic and common one, because the super super clubs are now untouchable in terms of spending. Spurs were pioneers of this approach too, they've been building this side for 5 years or more. So whilst it's not like for like in terms of domestic success, I'd say in terms of Stoke "pushing on" was following the model laid out by Wolves and clubs like Ajax, even if it's to a lesser extent, but we didn't go down that route. We simply equated money to success and we still are doing it. The board love rolling out how much they spend, but if it's ineffective they need to analyse why it might be. Wolves carry themselves and sell themselves like a top 6 club, we insisted on being little old Stoke which isn't attractive to young, upcoming players and it's an issue that's plaguing us still. Finally just to conclude on Ajax, their only transfers since that final for players that I would expect most fans to have heard of are two experienced heads. Daley Blind and Klaas Jan Huntelaar. All other signings have been young players from South America (courtesy of Overmars running effective scouting) and from Dutch domestic football. All players picked up for a relative pittance. Whilst the clubs they are dumping out of the CL continue to spunk millions on less effective players before trying to flip them when they can't break into the first team. Good, reasoned, interesting analysis. I doubt even a well-argued, plausible description of a "project" would have swayed N'Zonzi or Arnautovic. Much less Mrs N'Zonzi or Mrs Arnautovic. But that's only a guess. And in any case, that is no reason not to at least try to pursue a different approach.
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Post by tcdobinghoff on Apr 17, 2019 18:19:38 GMT
Ajax have bought wisely no doubt. They also attract the best young Dutch footballers and that’s not a pool to be sniffed at. But there’s more to it than that - the football I watched last night was electrifying at times. The pace and movement, slick passing and control are a testament to the coaching staff and management as well as talented individuals.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 18:47:31 GMT
Back to the main subject. Not many (if any) Chevrolet shirts out in Warrington today!
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 17, 2019 21:05:41 GMT
Interesting that Manchester 'Biggest Club in the World' United have won less European Cups than Ajax. And the same amount as Forest
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Post by thevoid on Apr 17, 2019 21:30:07 GMT
Interesting that Manchester 'Biggest Club in the World' United have won less European Cups than Ajax. And the same amount as Forest The Shit have one more than Forest.
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 17, 2019 21:36:38 GMT
And the same amount as Forest The Shit have one more than Forest. Oh yeah that's right. DOH!!
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