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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 17:48:45 GMT
Didn't really fancy it before having Ince on the right who was always going to cut in, but he's been so poor recently I'd happily see him dropped for Afobe.
McClean and Verlinden are the perfect wingers in that formation, outside feet, chalk on the boots types who just want to lash a cross or two in the box.
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Post by Miles Offside on Mar 17, 2019 18:03:38 GMT
Long overdue, in my opinion.
Whatever system he's playing at present - and I can't work out what it is - is not getting the best out of the players.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 18:18:35 GMT
Perhaps until Clucas is back, I don’t think it’s a long term solution though, we’d likely be overrun in the centre of midfield against many teams, packing the midfield is all too common these days. There is a reason teams started switching to 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1, 4-3-3.
Maybe 4-4-2 can be effective again. I guess the diamond isn’t too far off 4-4-2 but the full backs are expected to make up for the lack of width from the midfield?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 17, 2019 19:29:27 GMT
We could go 4-4-10 and still struggle to score.😛
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 19:47:06 GMT
Nope, 442 is awful with our players.
We don't have the central creativity and our 2 centre mids would be overrun. We don't have a striker that can create, and why would we shackle Ince and Verlinden with defensive duties?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 22:19:03 GMT
Nope, 442 is awful with our players. We don't have the central creativity and our 2 centre mids would be overrun. We don't have a striker that can create, and why would we shackle Ince and Verlinden with defensive duties? Allen and Etebo were our only centre mids against Reading. The wingers would track back more but it'd give Edwards and potentially clucas at left back the chance to bomb on and contribute too. Vokes needs someone near him, we might not have create strikers but I think we could set up a team where most of our attacks come from out wide. McClean, Edwards and Verlinden all seem capable of putting in decent crosses based on our last performance and we offer fuck all through the middle regardless of how we set up. |
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Post by stokieinaus on Mar 17, 2019 23:26:57 GMT
Its not part of modern day football, you need to be passing the ball backwards not forwards, don't you know that possession counts for everything.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Mar 18, 2019 0:07:18 GMT
We could go 4-4-10 and still struggle to score.😛 😂 .....oh,you're being serious!!! 🤔 |
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Mar 18, 2019 1:15:02 GMT
Nope, 442 is awful with our players. We don't have the central creativity and our 2 centre mids would be overrun. We don't have a striker that can create, and why would we shackle Ince and Verlinden with defensive duties? This. 4-4-2 may work with limited players when you have a mercurial talent like Fuller up front who can fashion his own chances out of nothing in conjunction with a set-piece specialist like Delap.We currently don't have anyone approaching the level of either. Also the only truly creative midfielder we have is Charlie,and it's a big call to pla him as one of our two central midfielders in a game. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 18, 2019 6:25:51 GMT
I think with this bunch we need a proper three man midfield to try and establish some semblance of control.
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Post by nott1 on Mar 18, 2019 6:51:53 GMT
Afobe has been a huge disappointment!
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 20:03:05 GMT
I think with this bunch we need a proper three man midfield to try and establish some semblance of control. So out of Saturday's starting eleven.. who do you think should be shunted.? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 20:23:25 GMT
I think with this bunch we need a proper three man midfield to try and establish some semblance of control. So out of Saturday's starting eleven.. who do you think should be shunted.? One of Ince or McClean. Probably Ince on current form. |
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 20:35:36 GMT
So out of Saturday's starting eleven.. who do you think should be shunted.? One of Ince or McClean. Probably Ince on current form. My concern is that neither Ince or McClean seem to fit into a NJ "system"... Like a few other players on the books. This thinking about mass clearouts also gets me thinking. Who and where? I can see Butland going. Allen maybe. McClean to Forest? Other than that I suspect we are going to be in for a massive disappointment on the transfer front... with perhaps a couple of Luton players coming in. What do you think? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 20:46:32 GMT
One of Ince or McClean. Probably Ince on current form. My concern is that neither Ince or McClean seem to fit into a NJ "system"... Like a few other players on the books. This thinking about mass clearouts also gets me thinking. Who and where? I can see Butland going. Allen maybe. McClean to Forest? Other than that I suspect we are going to be in for a massive disappointment on the transfer front... with perhaps a couple of Luton players coming in. What do you think? Ince might if he can gather himself and find some form. Hard to see McClean fitting in, agreed, though NJ seems to like his work ethic at least. I think those three, as you say. Maybe we can bin off Berahino. Badou, Bojan I could see and with a fair wind maybe Wimmer too. Woods, I could see going. Diouf maybe? Imagine we'll give Jones a decent amount of money to spend, even if a lot of it is from a big name sale. |
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 20:54:15 GMT
My concern is that neither Ince or McClean seem to fit into a NJ "system"... Like a few other players on the books. This thinking about mass clearouts also gets me thinking. Who and where? I can see Butland going. Allen maybe. McClean to Forest? Other than that I suspect we are going to be in for a massive disappointment on the transfer front... with perhaps a couple of Luton players coming in. What do you think? Ince might if he can gather himself and find some form. Hard to see McClean fitting in, agreed, though NJ seems to like his work ethic at least. I think those three, as you say. Maybe we can bin off Berahino. Badou, Bojan I could see and with a fair wind maybe Wimmer too. Woods, I could see going. Diouf maybe? Imagine we'll give Jones a decent amount of money to spend, even if a lot of it is from a big name sale. That's my concern though. The big three B's plus Wimmer and Imbula will be here for contract end won't they? Can we sustain that level of payroll for another season or two.? I think Jones will be targetting a left back and a diamond tip. Other than that I reckon he's got to get the best out of the rest. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 21:02:03 GMT
Ince might if he can gather himself and find some form. Hard to see McClean fitting in, agreed, though NJ seems to like his work ethic at least. I think those three, as you say. Maybe we can bin off Berahino. Badou, Bojan I could see and with a fair wind maybe Wimmer too. Woods, I could see going. Diouf maybe? Imagine we'll give Jones a decent amount of money to spend, even if a lot of it is from a big name sale. That's my concern though. The big three B's plus Wimmer and Imbula will be here for contract end won't they? Can we sustain that level of payroll for another season or two.? I think Jones will be targetting a left back and a diamond tip. Other than that I reckon he's got to get the best out of the rest. At the very least you'd think we'd shift three of the four somewhere on loan. The optimist in me thinks that if we're realistic on the fees we might get shut of Wimmer and Badou. If Berahino is convicted might there be a chance of sacking him? Think you're right about those being the primary targets for Jones. However, I suspect we appointed Jones knowing full well he was a 'project' manager rather than a quick fix job, and that he'd need to bring his own players in and take time to build his team. I'd be staggered if we weren't prepared to back him. |
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 21:32:20 GMT
That's my concern though. The big three B's plus Wimmer and Imbula will be here for contract end won't they? Can we sustain that level of payroll for another season or two.? I think Jones will be targetting a left back and a diamond tip. Other than that I reckon he's got to get the best out of the rest. At the very least you'd think we'd shift three of the four somewhere on loan. The optimist in me thinks that if we're realistic on the fees we might get shut of Wimmer and Badou. If Berahino is convicted might there be a chance of sacking him? Think you're right about those being the primary targets for Jones. However, I suspect we appointed Jones knowing full well he was a 'project' manager rather than a quick fix job, and that he'd need to bring his own players in and take time to build his team. I'd be staggered if we weren't prepared to back him. Yes. I think the scale of "back him" is the key. What Nathan has been told and what we think could be zillions apart. Can't get these massive contracts out of the equation in my mind and the ramifications of them. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2019 21:56:49 GMT
At the very least you'd think we'd shift three of the four somewhere on loan. The optimist in me thinks that if we're realistic on the fees we might get shut of Wimmer and Badou. If Berahino is convicted might there be a chance of sacking him? Think you're right about those being the primary targets for Jones. However, I suspect we appointed Jones knowing full well he was a 'project' manager rather than a quick fix job, and that he'd need to bring his own players in and take time to build his team. I'd be staggered if we weren't prepared to back him. Yes. I think the scale of "back him" is the key. What Nathan has been told and what we think could be zillions apart. Can't get these massive contracts out of the equation in my mind and the ramifications of them. It's not so much just what he's been told though IMO. I can't see why they'd appoint him if they weren't planning on backing him? Surely 'the project' and what he achieved at Luton is the very reason he got the job in the first place? Why would they appoint him on the strength of that and then tie one hand behind his back? |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 20, 2019 8:33:32 GMT
What's the point of playing a formation that the manager clearly isn't committed to? We probably would get a few more points and a slightly higher league position if our current squad is better suited to 442 than the diamond (which it probably is) but it doesn't embed the manager's system into the player like Edwards, Etebo, Clucas, McClean, Afobe, Vokes and Verlinden who may well be first team regulars/on the bench next year.
The (very British) 442 got found out years ago by more flexible coaches on the continent. It's effective up to a point and has the advantage of being easy to implement. More flexible formations (like 433 and the diamond) requires a lot more from the players - but when it's implemented properly it (literally) runs rings around a traditional 442.
Jones isn't going to play a traditional 442. Everything he's said indicates he intends to build a squad over the pre-season based on the his preferred diamond formation. So it definitely isn't the time for 442 either in terms of the very football has developed or where we are at as a club.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Mar 20, 2019 17:54:13 GMT
Didn't really fancy it before having Ince on the right who was always going to cut in, but he's been so poor recently I'd happily see him dropped for Afobe. McClean and Verlinden are the perfect wingers in that formation, outside feet, chalk on the boots types who just want to lash a cross or two in the box. McClean is not a perfect winger in any formation. |
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Post by robstokie on Mar 20, 2019 18:18:37 GMT
The problem with a 4-4-2 is that we don't have midfielders big enough, strong enough, dynamic enough or fit enough to provide a balanced pairing or go toe-to-toe with other teams. On top of this, our current lot of centre-halves would be left exposed and killed with pace without someone sat in front of them to mop up and slow down opposition attackers. Plus Ince and Jimmy Mac lack a consistent end product.
I think the way to go is with a narrowish 3 with 1 sitting deeper, pack the middle, get one to cover the full backs coming forward on their side and keep track of the opposition full back on the overlap in our half. Then I would play with a no.10 and 2 up top with the strikers splitting when the 10 drives forward to create the space behind and drifting out on their respective flank when the full back comes forward to offer an outlet. The 10 would have a freeish role but would act as a second striker to balls crossed in from wide areas if the striker drifts wide, otherwise he would be making a central run with the strikers attacking the post on their side, occasionally mixing it up
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