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Post by redstriper on Mar 14, 2019 11:49:34 GMT
Does this mean we are going to start going after the IRA for multiple atrocities for which nobody has been held to account, or are they still untouchable ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 11:53:07 GMT
Does this mean we are going to start going after the IRA for multiple atrocities for which nobody has been held to account, or are they still untouchable ? Any injustices should be dealt with from either side is of course the correct answer......
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Post by woodstein on Mar 14, 2019 12:17:54 GMT
Does this mean we are going to start going after the IRA for multiple atrocities for which nobody has been held to account, or are they still untouchable ? Any injustices should be dealt with from either side is of course the correct answer...... If a soldier is sent to a war zone he's going to defend himself and commrades, if that means even possible innocent victims being killed such resulting criminal proceedings shouldn't be allowed. If this is going to happen then good luck for the future if we ever get into a war situation and we can't get the numbers to defend us. Kill or be killed.
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Post by Davef on Mar 14, 2019 12:21:24 GMT
Any injustices should be dealt with from either side is of course the correct answer...... If a soldier is sent to a war zone he's going to defend himself and commrades, if that means even possible innocent victims being killed such resulting criminal proceedings shouldn't be allowed. If this is going to happen then good luck for the future if we ever get into a war situation and we can't get the numbers to defend us. Kill or be killed. Ever heard of the Geneva Conventions?
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Post by salopstick on Mar 14, 2019 12:30:53 GMT
People will have all sorts of opinions on Bloody Sunday and other events.
The only correct answer is the good Friday agreement should have been an amnesty for everyone. You can’t go releasing or not prosecuting Protestant and catholic terrorists but go after former soldiers. It’s everyone or no-one.
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Post by AlliG on Mar 14, 2019 12:32:05 GMT
Any injustices should be dealt with from either side is of course the correct answer...... If a soldier is sent to a war zone he's going to defend himself and commrades, if that means even possible innocent victims being killed such resulting criminal proceedings shouldn't be allowed. If this is going to happen then good luck for the future if we ever get into a war situation and we can't get the numbers to defend us. Kill or be killed. At some stage there has to be a line that cannot be crossed. Attached is a link to an appalling incident I remember well from my youth that shows what can happen if there is no line. Beyond the Pale
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 14, 2019 12:35:17 GMT
With the Irish dominating and dictating Brexit, we really could do without this distraction.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case are It is ceartainly going to stir up a lot of old differences and grievance. I hope that we don’t see any signs of a return to the needless violence of those times, but fear that this will increase a lot of tensions throughout the island of Ireland.
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Post by felonious on Mar 14, 2019 12:37:37 GMT
Does this mean we are going to start going after the IRA for multiple atrocities for which nobody has been held to account, or are they still untouchable ? See the Labour party's Letters of comfort. Be nice to see a list. Wonder if Jezza's best mate Jerry had one?
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 14, 2019 12:39:48 GMT
If a soldier is sent to a war zone he's going to defend himself and commrades, if that means even possible innocent victims being killed such resulting criminal proceedings shouldn't be allowed. If this is going to happen then good luck for the future if we ever get into a war situation and we can't get the numbers to defend us. Kill or be killed. Ever heard of the Geneva Conventions? Do they actually apply to terrorist organisations ? or only when they are on the receiving end of aggression, did we apply the Geneva Convention when Tony Blair commanded the RAF to bomb and kill innocent civilians in Iraq ? surely it should be the individual giving the orders who should be held accountable.
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Post by felonious on Mar 14, 2019 12:41:40 GMT
With the Irish dominating and dictating Brexit, we really could do without this distraction. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case are It is ceartainly going to stir up a lot of old differences and grievance. I hope that we don’t see any signs of a return to the needless violence of those times, but fear that this will increase a lot of tensions throughout the island of Ireland. Does anyone think that NI should be part of the UK? The inhabitants there vote the two most appalling parties on the ballot papers into power.
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Post by redstriper on Mar 14, 2019 12:48:45 GMT
If a soldier is sent to a war zone he's going to defend himself and commrades, if that means even possible innocent victims being killed such resulting criminal proceedings shouldn't be allowed. If this is going to happen then good luck for the future if we ever get into a war situation and we can't get the numbers to defend us. Kill or be killed. At some stage there has to be a line that cannot be crossed. Attached is a link to an appalling incident I remember well from my youth that shows what can happen if there is no line. Beyond the PaleGrim reading, and a shocking level of duplicity in the subsequent cover up. There should be no hiding place for those who commit crimes such as these, and that applies to our soldiers also, but our failure to pursue the terrorists is a an appalling and cowardly double standard. Lest we forget why the soldiers were there in the first place.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 14, 2019 12:49:53 GMT
Jezza likes this.
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 14, 2019 12:51:13 GMT
If a soldier is sent to a war zone he's going to defend himself and commrades, if that means even possible innocent victims being killed such resulting criminal proceedings shouldn't be allowed. If this is going to happen then good luck for the future if we ever get into a war situation and we can't get the numbers to defend us. Kill or be killed. At some stage there has to be a line that cannot be crossed. Attached is a link to an appalling incident I remember well from my youth that shows what can happen if there is no line. Beyond the PaleIt's a funny thing about the Vietnam war that it's only America's sins that get highlighted. This being a case in point - why did you choose the massacre at My Lai as an example of a war time atrocity and not the massacre at Hue during the Tet Offensive in 1968. Around 500 civilians were killed by the Americans in the former, over 5,000 civilians by the VC and NVA in the latter.
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 14, 2019 13:09:38 GMT
Bet out armed services feel truly valued, knowing that when they are old men they can be dragged to court whilst others are exonerated. I truly despair of this fuckin country and those who constantly seek to undermine and destroy any one or anything half decent.
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Post by metalhead on Mar 14, 2019 13:11:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 13:18:24 GMT
Fully agree that it has to apply to both sides but you have to set a line for soldiers, the same as you do with the police. It is not a decision that has been taken likely hence there has had to be sufficient evidence that person knew what they were doing was wrong and they did it anyway and then lied about the events that led them to do it. Otherwise the next time there's a protest, the next time there's a strike (if there's ever one again) it could be you or your child.
This is a man who deliberately shot an unarmed man brandishing a white hankerchief trying to go to drag a dying man out of the street. A murderer not a solider in battle.
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Post by AlliG on Mar 14, 2019 13:20:17 GMT
At some stage there has to be a line that cannot be crossed. Attached is a link to an appalling incident I remember well from my youth that shows what can happen if there is no line. Beyond the PaleIt's a funny thing about the Vietnam war that it's only America's sins that get highlighted. This being a case in point - why did you choose the massacre at My Lai as an example of a war time atrocity and not the massacre at Hue during the Tet Offensive in 1968. Around 500 civilians were killed by the Americans in the former, over 5,000 civilians by the VC and NVA in the latter. 2 reasons: - The main reason is that this was an atrocity by the "good guys" who were supposed to be there to protect the people and uphold "civilized" values.
- We (whether that be NATO or the individual armies of the USA / UK/Europe) can only realistically set and enforce the standards for our own armed forces
In the same way I would expect peacekeeping forces in places like Iraq and Afghanistan etc to operate to higher standards than ISIS (or whoever)
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Post by eebygum on Mar 14, 2019 13:46:42 GMT
Assez pur 'em orl i' eur gurt stadium - t' catholics, t' protestants 'n t' sahdiers 'n let em orl kick fuk art o' apiece otha. whoeva wins can be prime minista. fetch thy own tools.
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Post by metalhead on Mar 14, 2019 14:32:50 GMT
Fully agree that it has to apply to both sides but you have to set a line for soldiers, the same as you do with the police. It is not a decision that has been taken likely hence there has had to be sufficient evidence that person knew what they were doing was wrong and they did it anyway and then lied about the events that led them to do it. Otherwise the next time there's a protest, the next time there's a strike (if there's ever one again) it could be you or your child. This is a man who deliberately shot an unarmed man brandishing a white hankerchief trying to go to drag a dying man out of the street. A murderer not a solider in battle. Just a shame we actually don't prosecute police isn't it more readily? It's an embarrassment what they get away with.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 14:38:18 GMT
Fully agree that it has to apply to both sides but you have to set a line for soldiers, the same as you do with the police. It is not a decision that has been taken likely hence there has had to be sufficient evidence that person knew what they were doing was wrong and they did it anyway and then lied about the events that led them to do it. Otherwise the next time there's a protest, the next time there's a strike (if there's ever one again) it could be you or your child. This is a man who deliberately shot an unarmed man brandishing a white hankerchief trying to go to drag a dying man out of the street. A murderer not a solider in battle. Just a shame we actually don't prosecute police isn't it more readily? It's an embarrassment what they get away with. In certain circumstances particularly when its then been the subject of a cover up its more on the terrifying side what they can get away with. Look at Hillsborough and, perhaps more significantly, look at the campaign for the Orgreave enquiry that's just been rejected for example. This is why things like this decision on Bloody Sunday is vital as was the Hillsborough trials. Orgreave may never get theirs and most likely because what is being covered up there is the State/government abusing its powers on a huge scale.
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Post by metalhead on Mar 14, 2019 14:56:20 GMT
Just a shame we actually don't prosecute police isn't it more readily? It's an embarrassment what they get away with. In certain circumstances particularly when its then been the subject of a cover up its more on the terrifying side what they can get away with. Look at Hillsborough and, perhaps more significantly, look at the campaign for the Orgreave enquiry that's just been rejected for example. This is why things like this decision on Bloody Sunday is vital as was the Hillsborough trials. Orgreave may never get theirs and most likely because what is being covered up there is the State/government abusing its powers on a huge scale. With a bit of luck, David Duckenfield will die in jail. Not only did he lie and work with his colleagues to falsify evidence, he has been utterly remorseless of his actions until he realised his pants were being pulled down at which point he decided to change and admit that he had fucked up. He deserves to spend his golden years in jail..... People can be forgiven for mistakes. His actions were no mistake. They were calculated and criminal, but he has been allowed to get away with it because he worked for the police.
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Post by yeokel on Mar 14, 2019 15:01:08 GMT
With the Irish dominating and dictating Brexit, we really could do without this distraction. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case are It is ceartainly going to stir up a lot of old differences and grievance. I hope that we don’t see any signs of a return to the needless violence of those times, but fear that this will increase a lot of tensions throughout the island of Ireland. Does anyone think that NI should be part of the UK? The inhabitants there vote the two most appalling parties on the ballot papers into power. I feel that the long term solution for NI is to say that the territory is to be handed to Eire (or, sold to Eire) in, say, 2035 and that anybody who is living there at the time may come on some sort of assisted package to GB to live and work if they wish to. People who are there at the moment are, of course, free to settle, live and work in GB at any point in the meantime and get a head start on their compatriots. That timescale gives most of the “I was born here and I want to die here” oldies time to fulfil their wish, and everyone else to make the arrangements they need to. On 01/01/2035 all those who remain there should become citizens of the United States of Europe, or Eire if the EU has imploded by then. Anybody in GB who still regrets our leaving the EU could, of course, go and live in NI and become an Irish/EU national at that same time.
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Post by Northy on Mar 14, 2019 15:53:40 GMT
Does this mean we are going to start going after the IRA for multiple atrocities for which nobody has been held to account, or are they still untouchable ? Blair is a cunt
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Post by Northy on Mar 14, 2019 15:57:43 GMT
With the Irish dominating and dictating Brexit, we really could do without this distraction. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case are It is ceartainly going to stir up a lot of old differences and grievance. I hope that we don’t see any signs of a return to the needless violence of those times, but fear that this will increase a lot of tensions throughout the island of Ireland. Does anyone think that NI should be part of the UK? The inhabitants there vote the two most appalling parties on the ballot papers into power. Yes it should be
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 14, 2019 16:02:04 GMT
There are murdering scum walking the streets here in N/Ireland,because of the Good Friday Agreement.
If they intend to put ex Squadies in prison,then round up the cunts mentioned above and put them back behind bars too.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 14, 2019 16:16:15 GMT
Fully agree that it has to apply to both sides but you have to set a line for soldiers, the same as you do with the police. It is not a decision that has been taken likely hence there has had to be sufficient evidence that person knew what they were doing was wrong and they did it anyway and then lied about the events that led them to do it. Otherwise the next time there's a protest, the next time there's a strike (if there's ever one again) it could be you or your child. This is a man who deliberately shot an unarmed man brandishing a white hankerchief trying to go to drag a dying man out of the street. A murderer not a solider in battle. Soldiers are human. In 99% of cases they do the right thing and believe me the 1% get investigated and if need be prosecuted I have no issues ordinarily with this Bloody Sunday prosecution. It’s up to the legal system to find him guilty or innocent. However the fact as said earlier that this has not been applied to hundreds of terrorists means successive governments are letting soldiers down
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 16:24:50 GMT
Fully agree that it has to apply to both sides but you have to set a line for soldiers, the same as you do with the police. It is not a decision that has been taken likely hence there has had to be sufficient evidence that person knew what they were doing was wrong and they did it anyway and then lied about the events that led them to do it. Otherwise the next time there's a protest, the next time there's a strike (if there's ever one again) it could be you or your child. This is a man who deliberately shot an unarmed man brandishing a white hankerchief trying to go to drag a dying man out of the street. A murderer not a solider in battle. Soldiers are human. In 99% of cases they do the right thing and believe me the 1% get investigated and if need be prosecuted I have no issues ordinarily with this Bloody Sunday prosecution. It’s up to the legal system to find him guilty or innocent. However the fact as said earlier that this has not been applied to hundreds of terrorists means successive governments are letting soldiers down The Bloody Sunday inquiry found: - the killings were unjustified - none of the 14 dead (7 of whom were children) had guns - no warnings were given - no soldiers were under threat - the troops were the first to open fire Whether 1% or not this prosecution is justified. And as I said it should apply to both sides. I also fully agree that the government lets soldiers down 1) by sending them to fight in their (illegal) wars in the first place and 2) by doing absolutely fuck all to support them when they come back.
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 14, 2019 16:25:05 GMT
With the Irish dominating and dictating Brexit, we really could do without this distraction. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case are It is ceartainly going to stir up a lot of old differences and grievance. I hope that we don’t see any signs of a return to the needless violence of those times, but fear that this will increase a lot of tensions throughout the island of Ireland. Yes, V unfortunate timing
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Post by felonious on Mar 14, 2019 16:29:24 GMT
Not much balance there in that report MH..
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 14, 2019 16:43:43 GMT
Does this mean we are going to start going after the IRA for multiple atrocities for which nobody has been held to account, or are they still untouchable ? Blair is a cunt And so is his wife.
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