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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 14, 2019 13:31:04 GMT
It is very plain to see that Nathan Jones is in a no win situation. He is being slated for first of all creating a team that is becoming hard to beat! Had he yesterday put Verlinden on and we had lost to a late goal he would have been ridiculed by impatient fans who want results yesterday! Last night our manager was without the better options of Vokes, Etebo and Clucas. He was down to the bare bones in midfield! On top of this Charlie can really only last for about sixty minutes before his legs are shot! For what ever reason we have players such as Diouf, Wood, Berahino, McClean and Ince who have not reached the fans expectations in our disappointing decline from a good position in the Premiership. Add to this expensive signings that have failed completely to make any impact! I can understand why some fans are finding it very difficult to control their disappointment but they are wrong to criticise Jones. We are progressing and we have made great progress since he arrived. I have no doubt we will see Verlinden appear soon because Jones is not afraid to blood young players. When he has the opportunity again to shift certain players away and bring in further excellent signings in the mould of Batth and Vokes and use our talented young players such as Edwards, we will once again have a team to be proud of. Can you please give me a clue as to what progress is being made. Under Rowett we went on a long arduous, mind numbingly boring unbeaten run. Under Jones we are seemingly going on a long arduous, mind numbingly boring unbeaten run. The difference for me is that under Rowett I actually thought we could score goals, under Jones I reckon we could set a new record and not score for the rest of the season. How the fuck is that progress? Did you seriously expect us to progress after sacking our third manager in a year - and in the middle of the season at that? Really? It was always going to get worse before it got better. The squad needs gutting and that can't happen again until the summer. Until then I suggest you avert your eyes - it's going to remain pretty hideous for the rest of the season.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 14, 2019 13:45:22 GMT
So you think yesterday's remarkable 0-0 would have given confidence to the likes of McLean, ince, Allen, diouf, woods, Adam and Afobe? Even Batth who probably realised that hes a footballer in the loosest sense of the word? To the team as a group? Yeah, I think they'd see it as perhaps a fortunate but battling point. I admire your stoicism. I can only assume that you are watching in via teletext! How anyone can watch that shit and feel even remotely positive is beyond me. We have the world hide and seek champion. We have blokes who can't last 90 minutes. We have one who runs with the ball whilst looking at his feet. We have several who couldn't trap a bag of cement. We have a bloke who couldn't even use his left foot to move the ball inches to his right foot so he could whack it miles to no-one. When we secure points, it is invariably because we have an outstanding goalkeeper, who to be brutally honest, is just about the one and only positive about the whole club and he won't be here next season.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 14, 2019 13:52:01 GMT
To the team as a group? Yeah, I think they'd see it as perhaps a fortunate but battling point. I admire your stoicism. I can only assume that you are watching in via teletext! How anyone can watch that shit and feel even remotely positive is beyond me. We have the world hide and seek champion. We have blokes who can't last 90 minutes. We have one who runs with the ball whilst looking at his feet. We have several who couldn't trap a bag of cement. We have a bloke who couldn't even use his left foot to move the ball inches to his right foot so he could whack it miles to no-one. When we secure points, it is invariably because we have an outstanding goalkeeper, who to be brutally honest, is just about the one and only positive about the whole club and he won't be here next season. It's context again Dave. He's doing what he can with what he's got to work with. The rest of the season is all about building what momentum we can for me. You may turn about to be right and he'll turn out to be a nutter. I'm just prepared to see how things turn out once he's assembled his own team.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 14, 2019 14:16:37 GMT
To the team as a group? Yeah, I think they'd see it as perhaps a fortunate but battling point. I admire your stoicism. I can only assume that you are watching in via teletext! How anyone can watch that shit and feel even remotely positive is beyond me. We have the world hide and seek champion. We have blokes who can't last 90 minutes. We have one who runs with the ball whilst looking at his feet. We have several who couldn't trap a bag of cement. We have a bloke who couldn't even use his left foot to move the ball inches to his right foot so he could whack it miles to no-one. When we secure points, it is invariably because we have an outstanding goalkeeper, who to be brutally honest, is just about the one and only positive about the whole club and he won't be here next season. Unfortunately I was there last night and it was horrible. However on reflection we should have lost and we didn't - which actually is a positive. If we've instilled the ability to grind out results when not playing well we are building on sound foundations. Too many people on here want a fancy roof put up before the concrete has dried.
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Post by leicspotter on Mar 14, 2019 14:33:45 GMT
If that's still the approach in a year's time or even six month's time I'll be worried. He himself has said it's not his plan though and not what he wants to see. Everything should be viewed in context, which for some reason remains on here a dirtier word than 'spunkblancmange'. The context is that he's been parachuted into a team on its arse mid-season and is gradually getting a bit more organisation and belief and grounding in that side of things. If it's not his plan why bother setting up that way. If he wants to play football and play on front foot, pick some footballers who can actually play with a modicum of talent. Oh...and if he could stop celebrating a 0-0 draw like we've won the cup final, it would be most appreciated. It's small time and its embarrassing. Clap the support by way of appreciation then fuck off. Dave, this last bit pulls your argument right down. Who are these players "with a modicum of talent" that you want him to pick? Potentially 3 key players out (injured/ suspended) and Charlie not up to 90 minutes, tends to hamstring the manager somewhat.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 14:48:13 GMT
If it's not his plan why bother setting up that way. If he wants to play football and play on front foot, pick some footballers who can actually play with a modicum of talent. Oh...and if he could stop celebrating a 0-0 draw like we've won the cup final, it would be most appreciated. It's small time and its embarrassing. Clap the support by way of appreciation then fuck off. Dave, this last bit pulls your argument right down. Who are these players "with a modicum of talent" that you want him to pick? Potentially 3 key players out (injured/ suspended) and Charlie not up to 90 minutes, tends to hamstring the manager somewhat. Bojan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 14:57:56 GMT
There is a difference between explanations and providing excuses ad nauseum. What hasn't changed is we are paying money to watch absolute wank. I don’t think it is an excuse. Did you expect him to come in and wave a magic wand? We employed Jones because his track record was that he got a poor relegation threatened Luton playing fast flowing attacking football. He managed that turn around relatively quickly, winning 9(?) of his first 15 games, then reaching the playoffs, then promotion and then top two before leaving. He did that on a tiny budget working I assume with largely what he was given. I expected some semblance of that track record. Some attacking football. Some improvement in players. Some shrewd purchases. We have seen nothing of the sort. Not one tiny crumb of comfort. What we have seen is some pretty got damn awful defensive football. 3 turgid performances on the bounce - Preston, Hull and West Brom. Soul destroying draws last night and against Wigan. 1 win in 9 games. No shots on target in the last two games. Magic wand waving I did not expect but an entrance to the stage with a top hat and tails and a scantily clad assistant I did.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 15:02:42 GMT
I don’t think it is an excuse. Did you expect him to come in and wave a magic wand? We employed Jones because his track record was that he got a poor relegation threatened Luton playing fast flowing attacking football. He managed that turn around relatively quickly, winning 9(?) of his first 15 games, then reaching the playoffs, then promotion and then top two before leaving. He did that on a tiny budget working I assume with largely what he was given.I expected some semblance of that track record. Some attacking football. Some improvement in players. Some shrewd purchases. We have seen nothing of the sort. Not one tiny crumb of comfort. What we have seen is some pretty got damn awful defensive football. 3 turgid performances on the bounce - Preston, Hull and West Brom. Soul destroying draws last night and against Wigan. 1 win in 9 games. No shots on target in the last two games. Magic wand waving I did not expect but an entrance to the stage with a top hat and tails and a scantily clad assistant I did. He bought 5 in and shipped 9 out in the January window after starting the job on the 6th. Then that summer he brought in 9 new players and got rid of 15.....
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 14, 2019 15:21:49 GMT
I admire your stoicism. I can only assume that you are watching in via teletext! How anyone can watch that shit and feel even remotely positive is beyond me. We have the world hide and seek champion. We have blokes who can't last 90 minutes. We have one who runs with the ball whilst looking at his feet. We have several who couldn't trap a bag of cement. We have a bloke who couldn't even use his left foot to move the ball inches to his right foot so he could whack it miles to no-one. When we secure points, it is invariably because we have an outstanding goalkeeper, who to be brutally honest, is just about the one and only positive about the whole club and he won't be here next season. It's context again Dave. He's doing what he can with what he's got to work with. The rest of the season is all about building what momentum we can for me. You may turn about to be right and he'll turn out to be a nutter. I'm just prepared to see how things turn out once he's assembled his own team. As am I. I just don't think that should stop us commenting on what is unfolding in front of our very eyes. If he doesn't initiate a fairly rapid and radical clear out then he needs to disappear off into the sunset with the transfer team very quickly
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 14, 2019 15:23:21 GMT
I admire your stoicism. I can only assume that you are watching in via teletext! How anyone can watch that shit and feel even remotely positive is beyond me. We have the world hide and seek champion. We have blokes who can't last 90 minutes. We have one who runs with the ball whilst looking at his feet. We have several who couldn't trap a bag of cement. We have a bloke who couldn't even use his left foot to move the ball inches to his right foot so he could whack it miles to no-one. When we secure points, it is invariably because we have an outstanding goalkeeper, who to be brutally honest, is just about the one and only positive about the whole club and he won't be here next season. Unfortunately I was there last night and it was horrible. However on reflection we should have lost and we didn't - which actually is a positive. If we've instilled the ability to grind out results when not playing well we are building on sound foundations. Too many people on here want a fancy roof put up before the concrete has dried. Which is all well and good but we are only grinding out results because our keeper is superb. It's hardly like we are looking solid is it?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 14, 2019 15:24:17 GMT
I don’t think it is an excuse. Did you expect him to come in and wave a magic wand? We employed Jones because his track record was that he got a poor relegation threatened Luton playing fast flowing attacking football. He managed that turn around relatively quickly, winning 9(?) of his first 15 games, then reaching the playoffs, then promotion and then top two before leaving. He did that on a tiny budget working I assume with largely what he was given. I expected some semblance of that track record. Some attacking football. Some improvement in players. Some shrewd purchases. We have seen nothing of the sort. Not one tiny crumb of comfort. What we have seen is some pretty got damn awful defensive football. 3 turgid performances on the bounce - Preston, Hull and West Brom. Soul destroying draws last night and against Wigan. 1 win in 9 games. No shots on target in the last two games. Magic wand waving I did not expect but an entrance to the stage with a top hat and tails and a scantily clad assistant I did. It’s almost as if it’s tougher to get your ideas across as quickly to a collection of millionaires in a funk. For all Jones got the results early on at Luton it took him three windows by his own admission to get a squad he was happy with. An unbalanced squad that was playing lifeless, moribund football with decidedly few creative options worth their salt wasn’t going to be transformed overnight into free flowing entertainers. I think Batth and Vokes are shrewd signings.
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Post by werrington on Mar 14, 2019 15:25:17 GMT
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 14, 2019 15:26:10 GMT
It's context again Dave. He's doing what he can with what he's got to work with. The rest of the season is all about building what momentum we can for me. You may turn about to be right and he'll turn out to be a nutter. I'm just prepared to see how things turn out once he's assembled his own team. As am I. I just don't think that should stop us commenting on what is unfolding in front of our very eyes. If he doesn't initiate a fairly rapid and radical clear out then he needs to disappear off into the sunset with the transfer team very quickly Are you? You’ve called him a prick and a nutter so far haven’t you, you don’t seem on the fence to me Dave?
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 14, 2019 16:21:10 GMT
Would that be the best you or he could have come up with ? how many games did we go unbeaten under the useless Rowett ? I'm still waiting for the best you can do, given it's apparently so easy? In your own time. Again, the difference with the Rowett situation has been made numerous times. I will help you out it was 10, I have already given my take on your question.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 14, 2019 16:23:35 GMT
I admire your stoicism. I can only assume that you are watching in via teletext! How anyone can watch that shit and feel even remotely positive is beyond me. We have the world hide and seek champion. We have blokes who can't last 90 minutes. We have one who runs with the ball whilst looking at his feet. We have several who couldn't trap a bag of cement. We have a bloke who couldn't even use his left foot to move the ball inches to his right foot so he could whack it miles to no-one. When we secure points, it is invariably because we have an outstanding goalkeeper, who to be brutally honest, is just about the one and only positive about the whole club and he won't be here next season. Unfortunately I was there last night and it was horrible. However on reflection we should have lost and we didn't - which actually is a positive. If we've instilled the ability to grind out results when not playing well we are building on sound foundations. Too many people on here want a fancy roof put up before the concrete has dried. Concrete you say our foundations are laid on sand it seems.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 14, 2019 16:27:42 GMT
I'm still waiting for the best you can do, given it's apparently so easy? In your own time. Again, the difference with the Rowett situation has been made numerous times. I will help you out it was 10, I have already given my take on your question. I knew the answer, I've just explained, as others have, why it's a different situation. You haven't at all given a take, you've suggested something was easy but singularly failed to suggest what he should've done instead when pressed. Standard.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 14, 2019 16:28:22 GMT
I don’t think it is an excuse. Did you expect him to come in and wave a magic wand? We employed Jones because his track record was that he got a poor relegation threatened Luton playing fast flowing attacking football. He managed that turn around relatively quickly, winning 9(?) of his first 15 games, then reaching the playoffs, then promotion and then top two before leaving. He did that on a tiny budget working I assume with largely what he was given. I expected some semblance of that track record. Some attacking football. Some improvement in players. Some shrewd purchases. We have seen nothing of the sort. Not one tiny crumb of comfort. What we have seen is some pretty got damn awful defensive football. 3 turgid performances on the bounce - Preston, Hull and West Brom. Soul destroying draws last night and against Wigan. 1 win in 9 games. No shots on target in the last two games. Magic wand waving I did not expect but an entrance to the stage with a top hat and tails and a scantily clad assistant I did. We were waiting for him to pull a rabbit out of the hat and we got.......................Darren frigging Fletcher
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 14, 2019 16:33:53 GMT
I will help you out it was 10, I have already given my take on your question. I knew the answer, I've just explained, as others have, why it's a different situation. You haven't at all given a take, you've suggested something was easy but singularly failed to suggest what he should've done instead when pressed. Standard. "we need improvement" he didn't have to lie which it seems he has in my opinion of course.
Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/286823/debut-retiring?page=3#ixzz5iAFxdKFg
There you go now where is yours on why it is different for NJ than GR ? apart from two more unbeaten game of course, why do you believe we have progressed under NJ from GR ?, same negative turgid eye ripping out football same clueless aimless football same levels of fitness.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 14, 2019 16:47:58 GMT
I knew the answer, I've just explained, as others have, why it's a different situation. You haven't at all given a take, you've suggested something was easy but singularly failed to suggest what he should've done instead when pressed. Standard. "we need improvement" he didn't have to lie which it seems he has in my opinion of course.
Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/286823/debut-retiring?page=3#ixzz5iAFxdKFg
There you go now where is yours on why it is different for NJ than GR ? apart from two more unbeaten game of course, why do you believe we have progressed under NJ from GR ?, same negative turgid eye ripping out football same clueless aimless football same levels of fitness.
Rowett was given time and lots of money to build his own team. Jones hasn't had either and has inherited the problems Rowett did plus the extra problems Rowett created. Did you think Jones was going to create a footballing, winning machine overnight? Coming in and telling the press the dressing room 'needs improvement' would've been seized on as a story and pissed the players off straight away.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 14, 2019 17:00:56 GMT
"we need improvement" he didn't have to lie which it seems he has in my opinion of course.
Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/286823/debut-retiring?page=3#ixzz5iAFxdKFg
There you go now where is yours on why it is different for NJ than GR ? apart from two more unbeaten game of course, why do you believe we have progressed under NJ from GR ?, same negative turgid eye ripping out football same clueless aimless football same levels of fitness.
Rowett was given time and lots of money to build his own team. Jones hasn't had either and has inherited the problems Rowett did plus the extra problems Rowett created. Did you think Jones was going to create a footballing, winning machine overnight? Coming in and telling the press the dressing room 'needs improvement' would've been seized on as a story and pissed the players off straight away. I thought he spent nearly £15m on two players in January, so you think he should have said they were a good group ? how would you have described them truthfully ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 17:05:01 GMT
Rowett was given time and lots of money to build his own team. Jones hasn't had either and has inherited the problems Rowett did plus the extra problems Rowett created. Did you think Jones was going to create a footballing, winning machine overnight? Coming in and telling the press the dressing room 'needs improvement' would've been seized on as a story and pissed the players off straight away. I thought he spent nearly £15m on two players in January, so you think he should have said they were a good group ? how would you have described them truthfully ? I suppose £9-£10m is "nearly" £15m......
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Post by werrington on Mar 14, 2019 17:05:19 GMT
Rowett was given time and lots of money to build his own team. Jones hasn't had either and has inherited the problems Rowett did plus the extra problems Rowett created. Did you think Jones was going to create a footballing, winning machine overnight? Coming in and telling the press the dressing room 'needs improvement' would've been seized on as a story and pissed the players off straight away. I thought he spent nearly £15m on two players in January, so you think he should have said they were a good group ? how would you have described them truthfully ? £15m?....you sure about that as I think your maths is wrong Add to that one of them has been injured for 3 weeks
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 14, 2019 17:08:01 GMT
Rowett was given time and lots of money to build his own team. Jones hasn't had either and has inherited the problems Rowett did plus the extra problems Rowett created. Did you think Jones was going to create a footballing, winning machine overnight? Coming in and telling the press the dressing room 'needs improvement' would've been seized on as a story and pissed the players off straight away. I thought he spent nearly £15m on two players in January, so you think he should have said they were a good group ? how would you have described them truthfully ? I think he should have said whatever it takes to get them running through walls for him. Ferguson was hardly George Washington on the truth scale, nor was the good, winning version of Mourinho. They'd talk whatever shit protected his charges publicly and bollock them to high heaven in private. Spending £12.5 million on two players isn't the same as bringing in 8-9 with the biggest budget in the league, is it?
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 14, 2019 17:16:13 GMT
I thought he spent nearly £15m on two players in January, so you think he should have said they were a good group ? how would you have described them truthfully ? I think he should have said whatever it takes to get them running through walls for him. Ferguson was hardly George Washington on the truth scale, nor was the good, winning version of Mourinho. They'd talk whatever shit protected his charges publicly and bollock them to high heaven in private. Spending £12.5 million on two players isn't the same as bringing in 8-9 with the biggest budget in the league, is it? Did it work ! I have hardly seen any of them running through walls for him have you ? Woods has gone backwards, ditto Afobe, ditto Clucas, Ince has fallen apart, as has Berahino, we have fecked off our only half decent left back out on loan, Bojan is been pissed about again, he tried to offload MC Clean in January then plays him every game.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 14, 2019 17:17:26 GMT
Comparing Jones to Rowett is just spurious at this stage for all the obvious reasons outlined in this (and many other) threads.
If we playing as poorly next year he can’t have any complaints if axed but in the meantime just let’s see what he can do.
Looks like his signings are decent and Edwards seems to be thriving.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 14, 2019 17:19:54 GMT
I think he should have said whatever it takes to get them running through walls for him. Ferguson was hardly George Washington on the truth scale, nor was the good, winning version of Mourinho. They'd talk whatever shit protected his charges publicly and bollock them to high heaven in private. Spending £12.5 million on two players isn't the same as bringing in 8-9 with the biggest budget in the league, is it? Did it work ! I have hardly seen any of them running through walls for him have you ? Woods has gone backwards, ditto Afobe, ditto Clucas, Ince has fallen apart, as has Berahino, we have fecked off our only half decent left back out on loan, Bojan is been pissed about again, he tried to offload MC Clean in January then plays him every game. You seem to be neglecting any balance crappy. What about the defense and the improvement in Edwards. None of the others you mention were exactly over performing under GR
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 14, 2019 17:27:12 GMT
I think he should have said whatever it takes to get them running through walls for him. Ferguson was hardly George Washington on the truth scale, nor was the good, winning version of Mourinho. They'd talk whatever shit protected his charges publicly and bollock them to high heaven in private. Spending £12.5 million on two players isn't the same as bringing in 8-9 with the biggest budget in the league, is it? Did it work ! I have hardly seen any of them running through walls for him have you ? Woods has gone backwards, ditto Afobe, ditto Clucas, Ince has fallen apart, as has Berahino, we have fecked off our only half decent left back out on loan, Bojan is been pissed about again, he tried to offload MC Clean in January then plays him every game. I don't think the effort can be faulted. We have lots of problems, we're still fairly shit, but with one or two exceptions I don't think we're going through the motions. The only players who have gone backwards are Ince and Afobe, the others on your list weren't delivering long before Jones arrived.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 14, 2019 17:37:15 GMT
As am I. I just don't think that should stop us commenting on what is unfolding in front of our very eyes. If he doesn't initiate a fairly rapid and radical clear out then he needs to disappear off into the sunset with the transfer team very quickly Are you? You’ve called him a prick and a nutter so far haven’t you, you don’t seem on the fence to me Dave? Hes mad as a box of frogs. I love him. Hes going to be a car crash or fantastic. There will be no middle ground with this guy.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 14, 2019 17:48:49 GMT
Did it work ! I have hardly seen any of them running through walls for him have you ? Woods has gone backwards, ditto Afobe, ditto Clucas, Ince has fallen apart, as has Berahino, we have fecked off our only half decent left back out on loan, Bojan is been pissed about again, he tried to offload MC Clean in January then plays him every game. You seem to be neglecting any balance crappy. What about the defense and the improvement in Edwards. None of the others you mention were exactly over performing under GR Defence is all we have at the moment as it was under Rowett when we were on our unbeaten but entirely forgettable 10 match run, tbf Edwards has improved down to a run of games, Ince is worse as is Afobe as is Woods, Berahino actually improved slightly under Rowett fair enough Clucas only played for a short period under Rowett, what happened with Pieters who knows, BMI is not a left back, MC Clean is a shit footballer and God knows why Bojan can not get a decent run of games despite NJ stating he was needed.
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Post by thehoof on Mar 14, 2019 19:27:28 GMT
Verlinden for Ince would have been ideal for the last 20. Ince stunk the place out yet again...... Totally agree Presteigne. Any chance you could write the Sentinel reports instead of Martin Stinks?
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