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Post by PotterLog on Mar 13, 2019 15:20:58 GMT
I don't know if you realise how much you argue with yourself on here. You did it on the Butland thread yesterday as well, you could quite literally start an argument in an empty room Here you note every aspect of why Ronaldo is a better headerer of the ball - taller, more conducive body shape, gets up higher. But you insist there's an argument to be had on it... well make the argument then! You've made the argument pretty thoroughly for Ronaldo, now make the argument for why Messi is better in the air than Ronaldo. You can't, because it's frivolous and you're just being contrary for the sake of it. You're missing what I'm saying though. There's a big difference between WINNING the ball and actually heading the ball. Does being taller, having a more conducive body shape, having a higher vertical leap make you a better player at HEADING the ball. No it doesn't. I understand the point. Again, just make the argument that Messi is better than Ronaldo at heading the ball, preferably with the evidence one might look at to back up that argument. We're all listening...
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 15:29:03 GMT
You're missing what I'm saying though. There's a big difference between WINNING the ball and actually heading the ball. Does being taller, having a more conducive body shape, having a higher vertical leap make you a better player at HEADING the ball. No it doesn't. I understand the point. Again, just make the argument that Messi is better than Ronaldo at heading the ball, preferably with the evidence one might look at to back up that argument. We're all listening... I believe he only just edges it when it comes to just heading ability, Ronaldo that is. There's no contest when it comes to winning it. I've seen enough of Messi in his career to know that he can head a ball and finish in the air whether it's contested or a wide-open header (which is still a skill) people get confused a lot with what I mentioned before, winning the ball and actually heading it, that's why a lot of people just say Ronaldo is better at heading the ball and almost immediately disregard Messi's ability to do that. What he does smash him on every time is how high he gets up, he's got a high vertical to go with his height. This is why I say Ronaldo is arguably better at it.
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Mar 13, 2019 15:34:58 GMT
If Messi had performed as well at Barcelona with another club that would raise his standing without question. Yes Ronaldo has been a great clubs but he taken the challenge and won at all four of his clubs - a boast Messi cannot equal.
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Post by mattador78 on Mar 13, 2019 15:39:52 GMT
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Post by westgatelakes on Mar 13, 2019 15:40:06 GMT
Messi is arguably the best dribbler of a football ever, although Maradona and George Best were pretty good also.
Ronaldo, for me, though, is the best all-round footballer ever and would, I believe, win every poll going of supporters across the world.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 15:46:36 GMT
His goals ratio is also not as good, and he's tied on hat-tricks. I feel Messi will surpass his stats.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 13, 2019 15:49:27 GMT
I understand the point. Again, just make the argument that Messi is better than Ronaldo at heading the ball, preferably with the evidence one might look at to back up that argument. We're all listening... I believe he only just edges it when it comes to just heading ability, Ronaldo that is. There's no contest when it comes to winning it. I've seen enough of Messi in his career to know that he can head a ball and finish in the air whether it's contested or a wide-open header (which is still a skill) people get confused a lot with what I mentioned before, winning the ball and actually heading it, that's why a lot of people just say Ronaldo is better at heading the ball and almost immediately disregard Messi's ability to do that. What he does smash him on every time is how high he gets up, he's got a high vertical to go with his height. This is why I say Ronaldo is arguably better at it. Nobody’s saying Messi is crap at heading though. This is what I mean about arguing with yourself - it’s fine to just say Messi is good but Ronaldo is better
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 15:53:22 GMT
I believe he only just edges it when it comes to just heading ability, Ronaldo that is. There's no contest when it comes to winning it. I've seen enough of Messi in his career to know that he can head a ball and finish in the air whether it's contested or a wide-open header (which is still a skill) people get confused a lot with what I mentioned before, winning the ball and actually heading it, that's why a lot of people just say Ronaldo is better at heading the ball and almost immediately disregard Messi's ability to do that. What he does smash him on every time is how high he gets up, he's got a high vertical to go with his height. This is why I say Ronaldo is arguably better at it. Nobody’s saying Messi is crap at heading though. This is what I mean about arguing with yourself - it’s fine to just say Messi is good but Ronaldo is better People's reasoning for Ronaldo being the greatest over Messi is because he's apparently more complete because he can head a football. Messi can head a football just as good and do everything else better. Then there's the argument that yeah but Ronaldo's done it on his own in different leagues, implying he's playing with absolute shite. Messi would have success in that Man Utd team, that Real Madrid team and that Juventus team. People going on as if Ronaldo hasn't had star quality around him for most of his career. It's funny how that game last night suddenly has people talking about Ronaldo being the greatest when you compare his season to Messi and Messi is doing far better.
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Post by santy on Mar 13, 2019 15:56:32 GMT
Messi is the greatest, he can literally do everything. He's the best footballer, he's the best goalscorer, he's the best creator and he's a fine athlete too. I'd much rather have Messi in my team. Ronaldo is similar to Zlatan in the goals he scores and the occasion, he's also done it in multiple leagues. But I don't know how anyone who knows and loves football can say that Ronaldo is the greatest or better than Messi. Messi can literally do everything better than Ronaldo. For me the argument comes down to flexibility or the adjustable nature of it. Messi has always been at Barcelona and the Barcelona team was built around him quite quickly when he emerged. That doesn't detract from Messi in any way, but it leaves one massive unknown about his career. Could he have also done it in another set-up? The only other thing we have to go with is the Argentina national team, who also have built themselves around Messi but unlike Barcelona have yielded no success with it. Given the nature of modern football, can you truly be the worlds best if you don't perform at multiple clubs? Zidane did it in both Italy and Spain, whereas others like Kaka and Veron were left with a severely diminished reputation following their failures to move away from the country they made their name and failed to perform at as high a standard. It certainly harmed Ryan Giggs legacy overall to see whether he could've done it anywhere other than at Manchester United, but of course it cements his position among the fanbase of that one club in a way that others like Beckham will never have. There's always two sides to the argument, but for me, on an individual level you can never truly be the worlds best unless you've gone out of the comfort zone and left the club at which you made a name for yourself and done it all again somewhere else. There's too much left untested on a mental level.
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Post by mattador78 on Mar 13, 2019 16:00:13 GMT
Nobody’s saying Messi is crap at heading though. This is what I mean about arguing with yourself - it’s fine to just say Messi is good but Ronaldo is better People's reasoning for Ronaldo being the greatest over Messi is because he's apparently more complete because he can head a football. Messi can head a football just as good and do everything else better. Then there's the argument that yeah but Ronaldo's done it on his own in different leagues, implying he's playing with absolute shite. Messi would have success in that Man Utd team, that Real Madrid team and that Juventus team. People going on as if Ronaldo hasn't had star quality around him for most of his career. It's funny how that game last night suddenly has people talking about Ronaldo being the greatest when you compare his season to Messi and Messi is doing far better. Fuck it as far as I’m concerned O fenômeno was better than them both until his injuries. 🖕
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 16:04:05 GMT
Messi is the greatest, he can literally do everything. He's the best footballer, he's the best goalscorer, he's the best creator and he's a fine athlete too. I'd much rather have Messi in my team. Ronaldo is similar to Zlatan in the goals he scores and the occasion, he's also done it in multiple leagues. But I don't know how anyone who knows and loves football can say that Ronaldo is the greatest or better than Messi. Messi can literally do everything better than Ronaldo. For me the argument comes down to flexibility or the adjustable nature of it. Messi has always been at Barcelona and the Barcelona team was built around him quite quickly when he emerged. That doesn't detract from Messi in any way, but it leaves one massive unknown about his career. Could he have also done it in another set-up? The only other thing we have to go with is the Argentina national team, who also have built themselves around Messi but unlike Barcelona have yielded no success with it. Given the nature of modern football, can you truly be the worlds best if you don't perform at multiple clubs? Zidane did it in both Italy and Spain, whereas others like Kaka and Veron were left with a severely diminished reputation following their failures to move away from the country they made their name and failed to perform at as high a standard. It certainly harmed Ryan Giggs legacy overall to see whether he could've done it anywhere other than at Manchester United, but of course it cements his position among the fanbase of that one club in a way that others like Beckham will never have. There's always two sides to the argument, but for me, on an individual level you can never truly be the worlds best unless you've gone out of the comfort zone and left the club at which you made a name for yourself and done it all again somewhere else. There's too much left untested on a mental level. There's no doubt in my mind that Messi wouldn't be able to perform in another league. He's just too good and I don't believe one club can make a player look that great. He's been at a good team, just like Ronaldo has been at good teams.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Mar 13, 2019 16:11:24 GMT
Fanboys on both sides of the argument.
Just enjoy them both whilst they're still playing at the top.
Ronaldo for me though...
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Post by santy on Mar 13, 2019 16:19:13 GMT
There's no doubt in my mind that Messi wouldn't be able to perform in another league. He's just too good and I don't believe one club can make a player look that great. He's been at a good team, just like Ronaldo has been at good teams. But I'm talking about empirical evidence. I fully understand the point you're making, but it hasn't been proven so it always has to remain in doubt. Think of all the things people can have no doubt about in life, some are just blatantly wrong like those who have no doubts that the world is flat. Others are on the truly impossible end of the spectrum to prove - those who have no doubt god exists. Ultimately that you have no doubt is an irrelevance, the fact is that in his career in which there is a player who is his peer he has not gone to the same lengths as Ronaldo. When you add to this, the fact that many of the heir apparent to the title of worlds best in the past have changed countries and crumbled means its a very real question mark against every player. We will forever more hear the cliché "Can he do it on a cold, wet night in Stoke" but think of what the analogy there is - can a person still do it when they step out of their comfort zone? It's something that applies across the board in life, some of the most successful people in life have struggled once out of an environment in which they excelled previously. For me personally as well, it poses another question, while we have almost certainly seen the absolute best Cristiano Ronaldo has had to offer football, have we seen the best Messi has had to offer? The challenges his career choice has led him to avoid mean he might not be the best player he could have potentially been. Had at 25/26 Messi decided to try his hand in another of the major leagues it's not out of the question that rising to that could well have put the debate to rest long ago because Messi may have had even more. I would never doubt that Messi is the naturally more gifted of the two, but Ronaldo has been able to achieve (in my mind) superiority through sheer determination to serve his own ego. Arrogance/pride can be powerful motivation in life.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 16:29:14 GMT
There's no doubt in my mind that Messi wouldn't be able to perform in another league. He's just too good and I don't believe one club can make a player look that great. He's been at a good team, just like Ronaldo has been at good teams. But I'm talking about empirical evidence. I fully understand the point you're making, but it hasn't been proven so it always has to remain in doubt. Think of all the things people can have no doubt about in life, some are just blatantly wrong like those who have no doubts that the world is flat. Others are on the truly impossible end of the spectrum to prove - those who have no doubt god exists. Ultimately that you have no doubt is an irrelevance, the fact is that in his career in which there is a player who is his peer he has not gone to the same lengths as Ronaldo. When you add to this, the fact that many of the heir apparent to the title of worlds best in the past have changed countries and crumbled means its a very real question mark against every player. We will forever more hear the cliché "Can he do it on a cold, wet night in Stoke" but think of what the analogy there is - can a person still do it when they step out of their comfort zone? It's something that applies across the board in life, some of the most successful people in life have struggled once out of an environment in which they excelled previously. For me personally as well, it poses another question, while we have almost certainly seen the absolute best Cristiano Ronaldo has had to offer football, have we seen the best Messi has had to offer? The challenges his career choice has led him to avoid mean he might not be the best player he could have potentially been. Had at 25/26 Messi decided to try his hand in another of the major leagues it's not out of the question that rising to that could well have put the debate to rest long ago because Messi may have had even more. I would never doubt that Messi is the naturally more gifted of the two, but Ronaldo has been able to achieve (in my mind) superiority through sheer determination to serve his own ego. Arrogance/pride can be powerful motivation in life. I mean I think there's more chance of Messi doing it in another league than the world turning out flat, but yeah I know what you mean. I just think that when you compare two players like them it's almost a given that they can do it anywhere. Ronaldo has proven that, even though he's always been at top clubs with top players around him. But for me it doesn't phase me much, I like to see a player stay loyal to a club and not really ask more of "but can you do it here" he's showcased his exceptional talent and for me that proves enough, I don't feel like he's suddenly going to be even better or even worse because he's in a different league. However, it's not impossible that something like that can happen. And that's the thing with Ronaldo. Achieving exceptional feats through sheer determination. He is the man for the occasion, and Messi has been too, but Ronaldo has been training for these Champions League games since he first played competitive football, I genuinely believe it's been part of his plan since day 1. I still would have Messi over Ronaldo in the longrun, but it'd be something to think about if you could pick either Messi or Ronaldo for those knockout stage games....
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 13, 2019 16:30:36 GMT
Nobody’s saying Messi is crap at heading though. This is what I mean about arguing with yourself - it’s fine to just say Messi is good but Ronaldo is better People's reasoning for Ronaldo being the greatest over Messi is because he's apparently more complete because he can head a football. Messi can head a football just as good and do everything else better. Then there's the argument that yeah but Ronaldo's done it on his own in different leagues, implying he's playing with absolute shite. Messi would have success in that Man Utd team, that Real Madrid team and that Juventus team. People going on as if Ronaldo hasn't had star quality around him for most of his career. It's funny how that game last night suddenly has people talking about Ronaldo being the greatest when you compare his season to Messi and Messi is doing far better. You’re all over the place here ric.. can we stick to the topic? i.e. heading. You can make every point you’ve just made without having to pretend that Messi is arguably better in the air than Ronaldo, which is the only reason I’m picking you up in his thread
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 16:37:35 GMT
People's reasoning for Ronaldo being the greatest over Messi is because he's apparently more complete because he can head a football. Messi can head a football just as good and do everything else better. Then there's the argument that yeah but Ronaldo's done it on his own in different leagues, implying he's playing with absolute shite. Messi would have success in that Man Utd team, that Real Madrid team and that Juventus team. People going on as if Ronaldo hasn't had star quality around him for most of his career. It's funny how that game last night suddenly has people talking about Ronaldo being the greatest when you compare his season to Messi and Messi is doing far better. You’re all over the place here ric.. can we stick to the topic? i.e. heading. You can make every point you’ve just made without having to pretend that Messi is arguably better in the air than Ronaldo, which is the only reason I’m picking you up in his thread You came in here wanting me to argue that Messi is better at heading a ball than Ronaldo when I never stated he was actually better, and now you have the cheek to say I'm all over the place? I said Ronaldo is arguably better because I believe a case can be made that Messi is equal to or not far off Ronaldo in that department. Because people were comparing them as if Messi cannot do that part of the game.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Mar 13, 2019 16:40:34 GMT
You’re all over the place here ric.. can we stick to the topic? i.e. heading. You can make every point you’ve just made without having to pretend that Messi is arguably better in the air than Ronaldo, which is the only reason I’m picking you up in his thread You came in here wanting me to argue that Messi is better at heading a ball than Ronaldo when I never stated he was actually better, and now you have the cheek to say I'm all over the place? I said Ronaldo is arguably better because I believe a case can be made that Messi is equal to or not far off Ronaldo in that department. Because people were comparing them as if Messi cannot do that part of the game.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 16:46:54 GMT
You came in here wanting me to argue that Messi is better at heading a ball than Ronaldo when I never stated he was actually better, and now you have the cheek to say I'm all over the place? I said Ronaldo is arguably better because I believe a case can be made that Messi is equal to or not far off Ronaldo in that department. Because people were comparing them as if Messi cannot do that part of the game. Starting to think you may only have an emoji keyboard or phone.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 13, 2019 16:52:50 GMT
You’re all over the place here ric.. can we stick to the topic? i.e. heading. You can make every point you’ve just made without having to pretend that Messi is arguably better in the air than Ronaldo, which is the only reason I’m picking you up in his thread You came in here wanting me to argue that Messi is better at heading a ball than Ronaldo when I never stated he was actually better, and now you have the cheek to say I'm all over the place? I said Ronaldo is arguably better because I believe a case can be made that Messi is equal to or not far off Ronaldo in that department. Because people were comparing them as if Messi cannot do that part of the game. Ric you said "Messi can do literally everything better than Ronaldo", which you walked back to "there's an argument to be had on it [heading]". I asked you to, in that case, make the argument for Messi being better - which I'll happily downgrade to "as good as" if you like. You declined to do that and now you're diverting the conversation to people are suggesting that "Messi cannot do that part of the game", which is a complete straw man. Nobody has said anything close to that here. You're not the only one who knows Messi can head a ball. Ronaldo is just better, and if you insist that is arguable, then I'll happily give you a third chance to argue it.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Mar 13, 2019 17:08:23 GMT
I'd trust Ronaldo on his left foot more than Messi on his right btw, just saying....
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Post by mattador78 on Mar 13, 2019 17:08:46 GMT
You came in here wanting me to argue that Messi is better at heading a ball than Ronaldo when I never stated he was actually better, and now you have the cheek to say I'm all over the place? I said Ronaldo is arguably better because I believe a case can be made that Messi is equal to or not far off Ronaldo in that department. Because people were comparing them as if Messi cannot do that part of the game. Ric you said "Messi can do literally everything better than Ronaldo", which you walked back to "there's an argument to be had on it [heading]". I asked you to, in that case, make the argument for Messi being better - which I'll happily downgrade to "as good as" if you like. You declined to do that and now you're diverting the conversation to people are suggesting that "Messi cannot do that part of the game", which is a complete straw man. Nobody has said anything close to that here. You're not the only one who knows Messi can head a ball. Ronaldo is just better, and if you insist that is arguable, then I'll happily give you a third chance to argue it. What they both like in goal 👍
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Post by mattador78 on Mar 13, 2019 17:11:12 GMT
Messi at centre half 🤷♂️😂😉
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 17:21:37 GMT
You came in here wanting me to argue that Messi is better at heading a ball than Ronaldo when I never stated he was actually better, and now you have the cheek to say I'm all over the place? I said Ronaldo is arguably better because I believe a case can be made that Messi is equal to or not far off Ronaldo in that department. Because people were comparing them as if Messi cannot do that part of the game. Ric you said " Messi can do literally everything better than Ronaldo", which you walked back to "there's an argument to be had on it [heading]". I asked you to, in that case, make the argument for Messi being better - which I'll happily downgrade to "as good as" if you like. You declined to do that and now you're diverting the conversation to people are suggesting that "Messi cannot do that part of the game", which is a complete straw man. Nobody has said anything close to that here. You're not the only one who knows Messi can head a ball. Ronaldo is just better, and if you insist that is arguable, then I'll happily give you a third chance to argue it. "Messi can head a ball just as good and do EVERYTHING ELSE BETTER." Messi has scored important goals with his head just like Ronaldo. Just an example of a goal in here, great header, important goal, Champions League final. Take into account he's only 5'7 makes it more impressive. Ronaldo's going to have more opportunities from headers because we see it all the time on corners. But when you look at both players their game is going to be like 80% of the time on the floor right? Ronaldo a little bit less because he's in the box for corners and is going to be a target man. So when it comes to actually making contact with the ball in the air we've seen Messi able to achieve success from that, and we've seen it more from Ronaldo because he's always going to have more chances from that. So if you asked me who would I pick if it was all about headers and headers only I'd take Ronaldo because of his ability to win the ball in the air, his body allows him to do that and that's why he gets more service in the air, it's common sense. But when it comes to scoring headers is there a lot to say that Ronaldo is actually better at heading it?
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 13, 2019 17:42:52 GMT
Ric you said " Messi can do literally everything better than Ronaldo", which you walked back to "there's an argument to be had on it [heading]". I asked you to, in that case, make the argument for Messi being better - which I'll happily downgrade to "as good as" if you like. You declined to do that and now you're diverting the conversation to people are suggesting that "Messi cannot do that part of the game", which is a complete straw man. Nobody has said anything close to that here. You're not the only one who knows Messi can head a ball. Ronaldo is just better, and if you insist that is arguable, then I'll happily give you a third chance to argue it. "Messi can head a ball just as good and do EVERYTHING ELSE BETTER." Messi has scored important goals with his head just like Ronaldo. Just an example of a goal in here, great header, important goal, Champions League final. Take into account he's only 5'7 makes it more impressive. Ronaldo's going to have more opportunities from headers because we see it all the time on corners. But when you look at both players their game is going to be like 80% of the time on the floor right? Ronaldo a little bit less because he's in the box for corners and is going to be a target man. So when it comes to actually making contact with the ball in the air we've seen Messi able to achieve success from that, and we've seen it more from Ronaldo because he's always going to have more chances from that. So if you asked me who would I pick if it was all about headers and headers only I'd take Ronaldo because of his ability to win the ball in the air, his body allows him to do that and that's why he gets more service in the air, it's common sense. But when it comes to scoring headers is there a lot to say that Ronaldo is actually better at heading it? Well I think we've both made our points. Incidentally why did you choose that goal when you could have chose any other of the whopping 24 goals he's scored with his head in his whole career? As a tangent, did Ferdinand get panned for that goal? I can't remember but he bloody should have done. It wasn't particularly clever movement by Messi or anything, he just stood there watching while he drifted into the gaping hole between him and O'Shea.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 17:45:57 GMT
"Messi can head a ball just as good and do EVERYTHING ELSE BETTER." Messi has scored important goals with his head just like Ronaldo. Just an example of a goal in here, great header, important goal, Champions League final. Take into account he's only 5'7 makes it more impressive. Ronaldo's going to have more opportunities from headers because we see it all the time on corners. But when you look at both players their game is going to be like 80% of the time on the floor right? Ronaldo a little bit less because he's in the box for corners and is going to be a target man. So when it comes to actually making contact with the ball in the air we've seen Messi able to achieve success from that, and we've seen it more from Ronaldo because he's always going to have more chances from that. So if you asked me who would I pick if it was all about headers and headers only I'd take Ronaldo because of his ability to win the ball in the air, his body allows him to do that and that's why he gets more service in the air, it's common sense. But when it comes to scoring headers is there a lot to say that Ronaldo is actually better at heading it? I think we've both made our points. As a tangent, did Ferdinand get panned for that goal? I can't remember but he bloody should have done. It wasn't particularly clever movement by Messi or anything, he just stood there watching while he drifted into the gaping hole between him and O'Shea. I agree, but still not an easy feat to direct that header in over a big van der sar.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 17:51:56 GMT
"Messi can head a ball just as good and do EVERYTHING ELSE BETTER." Messi has scored important goals with his head just like Ronaldo. Just an example of a goal in here, great header, important goal, Champions League final. Take into account he's only 5'7 makes it more impressive. Ronaldo's going to have more opportunities from headers because we see it all the time on corners. But when you look at both players their game is going to be like 80% of the time on the floor right? Ronaldo a little bit less because he's in the box for corners and is going to be a target man. So when it comes to actually making contact with the ball in the air we've seen Messi able to achieve success from that, and we've seen it more from Ronaldo because he's always going to have more chances from that. So if you asked me who would I pick if it was all about headers and headers only I'd take Ronaldo because of his ability to win the ball in the air, his body allows him to do that and that's why he gets more service in the air, it's common sense. But when it comes to scoring headers is there a lot to say that Ronaldo is actually better at heading it? Well I think we've both made our points. Incidentally why did you choose that goal when you could have chose any other of the whopping 24 goals he's scored with his head in his whole career? As a tangent, did Ferdinand get panned for that goal? I can't remember but he bloody should have done. It wasn't particularly clever movement by Messi or anything, he just stood there watching while he drifted into the gaping hole between him and O'Shea. You're right. I should've picked this one.
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Post by StokeTudoGuy on Mar 13, 2019 18:04:25 GMT
Messi is the greatest, he can literally do everything. He's the best footballer, he's the best goalscorer, he's the best creator and he's a fine athlete too. I'd much rather have Messi in my team. Ronaldo is similar to Zlatan in the goals he scores and the occasion, he's also done it in multiple leagues. But I don't know how anyone who knows and loves football can say that Ronaldo is the greatest or better than Messi. Messi can literally do everything better than Ronaldo. Messi is all that in a Barcelona team built around him, problem is he has always been a bit of a letdown for Argentina and that for me taints his claim against Ronaldo.
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 13, 2019 20:55:59 GMT
Ronaldo all day long.
In fact the best ever player.
I don't give a shite if legendary proballer riccyfuller93 agrees or not quite fucking frankly.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 13, 2019 21:45:03 GMT
Messi proving tonight why he's the best.
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Post by MilanStokie on Mar 13, 2019 21:58:09 GMT
Messi proving tonight why he's the best. By scoring less goals?
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