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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 11, 2019 21:59:46 GMT
I suggest it is just my opinion. What the hell do you want from me , a full technical explanation from the good goalkeeping guide? No, but when you quote me saying I think you are wrong I thought you might have some argument as to why I might be.
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Post by thehoof on Mar 11, 2019 22:08:07 GMT
Pope is out injured so no one knows what his form is like this year. Pickford this year (my quiz playing mate is an Everton season ticket holder) is playing like a scalded cat and Heston had a mare at Liverpool. There isn’t an English goalkeeper playing at the moment who doesn’t shit himself when he has to actually leave his line and catch the ball. "Heaton had a mare at Liverpool" If that's the criteria we're going by we may as well play without a goalkeeper. Two out of four goals is acceptable in your world then. There’s a surprise.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 11, 2019 22:14:47 GMT
"Heaton had a mare at Liverpool" If that's the criteria we're going by we may as well play without a goalkeeper. Two out of four goals is acceptable in your world then. There’s a surprise. Heaton having a mare at Liverpool implies you're judging him based solely on that game.
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Post by rawli on Mar 11, 2019 22:57:09 GMT
Horses for courses Jack is up there and could easily claim the England spot he just needs to consistently command his six yard box. See my Buffon comment in the Pickford thread It wasn't that bad.
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Post by steino1966 on Mar 11, 2019 23:24:24 GMT
England Under 21 keeper, Angus Gunn, might be an outside chance of taking that number 1 spot.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 6:27:40 GMT
We’ve seen over the years that club form often has nothing to do with selection for the international side, play for a decent side (even if you spend most of your time on the bench) and you’re good for a call up.
Things may have changed a bit under Southgate but as gash as he has been recently, I expect Pickford will keep his place for now.
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Post by andystokey on Mar 12, 2019 7:11:56 GMT
If Southgate is true to his word then the fact that Jack is in the Championship should have nothing to do with his selection. It's clear he has the best current record I just don't believe that shots are any harder to save in the premier league. With apparently the best defence in England in front of him for the international surely it makes no difference.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 12, 2019 7:49:56 GMT
If Southgate is true to his word then the fact that Jack is in the Championship should have nothing to do with his selection. It's clear he has the best current record I just don't believe that shots are any harder to save in the premier league. With apparently the best defence in England in front of him for the international surely it makes no difference. You don't think that the standard of goalkeeping needs to be higher in the Premier League than the Championship? Come again?
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Post by andystokey on Mar 12, 2019 8:11:17 GMT
If Southgate is true to his word then the fact that Jack is in the Championship should have nothing to do with his selection. It's clear he has the best current record I just don't believe that shots are any harder to save in the premier league. With apparently the best defence in England in front of him for the international surely it makes no difference. You don't think that the standard of goalkeeping needs to be higher in the Premier League than the Championship? Come again? I'm saying that the best international goalkeepers in the world don't all play in the premier league, yes.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 12, 2019 8:21:06 GMT
You don't think that the standard of goalkeeping needs to be higher in the Premier League than the Championship? Come again? I'm saying that the best international goalkeepers in the world don't all play in the premier league, yes. They pretty much all play in one of the top divisions somewhere in the world (generally Europe).
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 12, 2019 8:25:30 GMT
I'm saying that the best international goalkeepers in the world don't all play in the premier league, yes. They pretty much all play in one of the top divisions somewhere in the world (generally Europe). At high international level you have to deal with fewer shots but they are higher quality. Concentration is half the job done
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 12, 2019 8:28:33 GMT
They pretty much all play in one of the top divisions somewhere in the world (generally Europe). At high international level you have to deal with fewer shots but they are higher quality. Concentration is half the job done It's the nuts and bolts stuff as well. Positioning, crosses, footwork, kicking etc.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 12, 2019 8:36:01 GMT
At high international level you have to deal with fewer shots but they are higher quality. Concentration is half the job done It's the nuts and bolts stuff as well. Positioning, crosses, footwork, kicking etc. That's why Dave James was hit and miss.
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Post by ivorstokie on Mar 12, 2019 8:43:23 GMT
Interesting discussion on 5 Live last night re England goalkeepers, and who Southgate will choose for the next game.. Surprise, surprise, Butland didn't even get a mention!
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 12, 2019 9:10:59 GMT
There is a whole generation (or more) now that think football only started with the Premier League and it is the only division/league that counts for anything. Many of them hardly ever go to a match to watch their beloved United or Gunners etc. The word "City" has almost become synonymous with just one club.
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Post by jarvinski on Mar 12, 2019 9:11:49 GMT
Pickford is certainly not better, and how can Pope and Heaton be better when they play at the same club
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 12, 2019 15:34:28 GMT
There is a whole generation (or more) now that think football only started with the Premier League and it is the only division/league that counts for anything. Many of them hardly ever go to a match to watch their beloved United or Gunners etc. The word "City" has almost become synonymous with just one club. I don’t see what that has to do with the price of fish in this case to be honest Cokey? As RiccyFuller93 says, if we were still in the Prem and fans of a Champo club were making this sort of case for why their keeper should be above Jack in the pecking order, we’d be falling over ourselves laughing.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 12, 2019 16:19:45 GMT
There is a whole generation (or more) now that think football only started with the Premier League and it is the only division/league that counts for anything. Many of them hardly ever go to a match to watch their beloved United or Gunners etc. The word "City" has almost become synonymous with just one club. I don’t see what that has to do with the price of fish in this case to be honest Cokey? As RiccyFuller93 says, if we were still in the Prem and fans of a Champo club we’re making this sort of case for why their keeper should be above Jack in the pecking order, we’d be falling over ourselves laughing. OK I understand. I was just knee-jerk responding to the post that there was an extended discussion on English GKs in the media and Jack didn't get even mentioned. I wasn't arguing Jack was better than anyone else, just how narrow minded so many people are. He's always done well for England and shouldn't be ruled out or forgotten just because he is in the Championship. What matters is how good a player is. I am old enough to remember when we didn't have virtually any foreign players in the top (1st) division and it was dominated by UK country players. The England manager/selectors had loads of English top division players to choose from, probably 3 or 4 more times than today's Prem. Nevertheless there were still players capped from lower divisions like our Tony Allen, Brian Clough, and even Johnny Byrne a 3rd Division player for Crystal Palace.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 12, 2019 16:24:53 GMT
I don’t see what that has to do with the price of fish in this case to be honest Cokey? As RiccyFuller93 says, if we were still in the Prem and fans of a Champo club we’re making this sort of case for why their keeper should be above Jack in the pecking order, we’d be falling over ourselves laughing. OK I understand. I was just knee-jerk responding to the post that there was an extended discussion on English GKs in the media and Jack didn't get even mentioned. I wasn't arguing Jack was better than anyone else, just how narrow minded so many people are. He's always done well for England and shouldn't be ruled out or forgotten just because he is in the Championship. What matters is how good a player is. I am old enough to remember when we didn't have virtually any foreign players in the top (1st) division and it was dominated by UK country players. The England manager/selectors had loads of English top division players to choose from, probably 3 or 4 more times than today's Prem. Nevertheless there were still players capped from lower divisions like our Tony Allen, Brian Clough, and even Johnny Byrne a 3rd Division player for Crystal Palace. They were all largely the exception rather than the rule for the most part though, and have been for about 50 years or so. You'll get the occasional Bull or Nugent or even Butland in 2012, but for the most part international managers want players with experience of as high a level as possible.
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Post by swampySCFC on Mar 12, 2019 22:47:10 GMT
Jack wont be in the frame yet Pickford is fucking useless as proved last weekend. Its another Hudson, Greenhoff, Pejic scenario.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 12, 2019 23:10:20 GMT
OK I understand. I was just knee-jerk responding to the post that there was an extended discussion on English GKs in the media and Jack didn't get even mentioned. I wasn't arguing Jack was better than anyone else, just how narrow minded so many people are. He's always done well for England and shouldn't be ruled out or forgotten just because he is in the Championship. What matters is how good a player is. I am old enough to remember when we didn't have virtually any foreign players in the top (1st) division and it was dominated by UK country players. The England manager/selectors had loads of English top division players to choose from, probably 3 or 4 more times than today's Prem. Nevertheless there were still players capped from lower divisions like our Tony Allen, Brian Clough, and even Johnny Byrne a 3rd Division player for Crystal Palace. They were all largely the exception rather than the rule for the most part though, and have been for about 50 years or so. You'll get the occasional Bull or Nugent or even Butland in 2012, but for the most part international managers want players with experience of as high a level as possible. I agree of course they were the exception and they all "went" to top division clubs (promotion in Allen's case). My point is England managers were once prepared to cast their net wide, even selecting players who were playing abroad, but nowadays there is an almost total obsession with the Premier league.
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Mar 12, 2019 23:55:08 GMT
Pickford is a bloke who has believed his own hype.Every save is 'Hollywood' and he loves playing to the cameras.He is a decent passer, just not a good goalkeeper.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 13, 2019 7:43:11 GMT
They were all largely the exception rather than the rule for the most part though, and have been for about 50 years or so. You'll get the occasional Bull or Nugent or even Butland in 2012, but for the most part international managers want players with experience of as high a level as possible. I agree of course they were the exception and they all "went" to top division clubs (promotion in Allen's case). My point is England managers were once prepared to cast their net wide, even selecting players who were playing abroad, but nowadays there is an almost total obsession with the Premier league. I think England players who play abroad would get picked still. Sancho does. Beckham did. The sad thing is that for a long time English players simply wouldn't go and play abroad because the money here was unmatchable elsewhere and they were an insular, incurious bunch who hadn't the least bit of interest in adding new strings to their bow by seeing what else was out there. Happily this generation breaking through seems far more prepared to leave their comfort zone, as we're seeing with the kids going to Germany and doing well. Hopefully that's a trend that continues.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 13, 2019 7:44:02 GMT
Pickford is a bloke who has believed his own hype.Every save is 'Hollywood' and he loves playing to the cameras.He is a decent passer, just not a good goalkeeper. For some reason that's a disease that seems to afflict any English goalkeeper who has a sniff of the big time. Hart is the worst offender but Pickford and even Jack have been affected by it to some degree.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 13, 2019 8:21:47 GMT
I agree of course they were the exception and they all "went" to top division clubs (promotion in Allen's case). My point is England managers were once prepared to cast their net wide, even selecting players who were playing abroad, but nowadays there is an almost total obsession with the Premier league. I think England players who play abroad would get picked still. Sancho does. Beckham did. The sad thing is that for a long time English players simply wouldn't go and play abroad because the money here was unmatchable elsewhere and they were an insular, incurious bunch who hadn't the least bit of interest in adding new strings to their bow by seeing what else was out there. Happily this generation breaking through seems far more prepared to leave their comfort zone, as we're seeing with the kids going to Germany and doing well. Hopefully that's a trend that continues. Wilshere picked Bournemouth over Milan because it's closer to home. Another part is they fall for the line about the Premier being the best in the world.
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Post by werrington on Mar 13, 2019 8:39:41 GMT
I think England players who play abroad would get picked still. Sancho does. Beckham did. The sad thing is that for a long time English players simply wouldn't go and play abroad because the money here was unmatchable elsewhere and they were an insular, incurious bunch who hadn't the least bit of interest in adding new strings to their bow by seeing what else was out there. Happily this generation breaking through seems far more prepared to leave their comfort zone, as we're seeing with the kids going to Germany and doing well. Hopefully that's a trend that continues. Wilshere picked Bournemouth over Milan because it's closer to home. Another part is they fall for the line about the Premier being the best in the world. Wilshire....signed for West Ham in the summer has he played yet?
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Post by Absolution on Mar 13, 2019 9:01:39 GMT
Pickford is a bloke who has believed his own hype.Every save is 'Hollywood' and he loves playing to the cameras.He is a decent passer, just not a good goalkeeper. For some reason that's a disease that seems to afflict any English goalkeeper who has a sniff of the big time. Hart is the worst offender but Pickford and even Jack have been affected by it to some degree. If a goalkeeper stood in the perfect position every time, the matchday reports would all just say he'd not been tested and MotD and Sky etc would ignore his contributions. You need the odd hollywood save to get noticed.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 13, 2019 9:25:23 GMT
For some reason that's a disease that seems to afflict any English goalkeeper who has a sniff of the big time. Hart is the worst offender but Pickford and even Jack have been affected by it to some degree. If a goalkeeper stood in the perfect position every time, the matchday reports would all just say he'd not been tested and MotD and Sky etc would ignore his contributions. You need the odd hollywood save to get noticed. It's not so much that as the fist pumping, chest puffed out, 'bantz' with the crowd etc.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 13, 2019 9:37:28 GMT
Jordan Pickford is likely to retain his position as England's No 1 for the forthcoming Euro 2020 qualifiers against Czech Republic and Montenegro.
Pickford established himself as Southgate's first-choice goalkeeper during England's euphoric run to the World Cup semi-finals last summer, but Sportsmail understands there are concerns from within the England set-up over his recent erratic form and temperament, after a string of high-profile errors for Everton.
However, it is believed Southgate will stick with Pickford for the forthcoming fixtures. His distribution from the back is vital to the way Southgate wants to play, with the 25-year-old the most comfortable with the ball at his feet from the options at the England manager's disposal.
Southgate will recall Burnley keeper Tom Heaton to his squad following his return from long-term injury. He will be No 2 behind Pickford.
Stoke's Jack Butland appears likely to pip Southampton's Alex McCarthy, who has lost his place to Angus Gunn in Ralph Hasenhuttl's starting XI, to the third keeper slot.
The lack of serious competition for Pickford's place is an issue the England boss is keen to address.
Butland had been widely recognised as Pickford's closest competitor, but the fact he is playing in the Championship has seen him fall down the pecking order.
Butland will renew his attempts to leave Stoke at the end of this season.
Southgate has high hopes for Saints keeper Gunn, who is now playing regular first-team football at St Mary's, but the England manager is ready to resist the temptation to select Gunn in Wednesday's squad so the keeper can remain with Aidy Boothroyd's Under 21s.
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Post by sheds1862 on Mar 13, 2019 9:52:12 GMT
Dress it up however people wish and I know goalkeeper is slightly different but probably David Nugent and Steve Bull are the only Championship players in the last 25 years to play for England. I'm probably going to be corrected but that's off the top of my head.
Butland should make the squad , I don't see him starting.
Again the hypocrisy on this board tickles me. He's been slagged off, people saying get Grant back etc.
Now all of a sudden he is the best in the country again after two clean sheets against mediocre opposition.
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