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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 20:50:55 GMT
Says the poster who still thinks we can get relegated. Have I said anything that is factually wrong?
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Post by firfuxache on Mar 10, 2019 20:56:03 GMT
GR had a full pre season and his own signings. Was hardly going change over night. Puts us a step ahead for hopefully a much more successful 2019/2020. Yeah, Yeah ,Yeah .Its the hope that kills us.................... Or just read through your posting history that’d be enough to do it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Progress takes time which can be ruined very quickly. We were years in the making before we hit the Premier League. By Coates own admission it was probably the last throw of the dice with what we had spent on transfers to attain what we did. Pulis assembled a squad that was able to give a good account of itself and could compete over 90 minutes with anyone. Change to Hughes and a little more progress was made with the era of Stokealona. But upon losing the semi to Liverpool and a few more pre-cursors before that we looked like a team on the decline. 3 years to become as bad as we have, yet you seem to insinuate from your generally negative posts that Jones should have us ripping trees up and making a late charge for the play offs. Given the massive change in approach that the players now have to games it gives football fans a real glimpse of what is to come give the right backing. To those who can’t see the broader picture it seems as if we have made no progress. I, for one, can see the change. Admittedly I would have like to see a few more points on the board, but being a realist I’m looking at what is being built and am happy to see what we can achieve. We’re probably in the same situation as we were just after Pulis was appointed for the second time and look how that transpired. Chill yer boots and enjoy the ride. No one ever said being a Stoke fan was easy, but at least it’s unpredictable.
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Post by stokeson on Mar 10, 2019 21:25:39 GMT
Yeah, Yeah ,Yeah .Its the hope that kills us.................... Or just read through your posting history that’d be enough to do it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Progress takes time which can be ruined very quickly. We were years in the making before we hit the Premier League. By Coates own admission it was probably the last throw of the dice with what we had spent on transfers to attain what we did. Pulis assembled a squad that was able to give a good account of itself and could compete over 90 minutes with anyone. Change to Hughes and a little more progress was made with the era of Stokealona. But upon losing the semi to Liverpool and a few more pre-cursors before that we looked like a team on the decline. 3 years to become as bad as we have, yet you seem to insinuate from your generally negative posts that Jones should have us ripping trees up and making a late charge for the play offs. Given the massive change in approach that the players now have to games it gives football fans a real glimpse of what is to come give the right backing. To those who can’t see the broader picture it seems as if we have made no progress. I, for one, can see the change. Admittedly I would have like to see a few more points on the board, but being a realist I’m looking at what is being built and am happy to see what we can achieve. We’re probably in the same situation as we were just after Pulis was appointed for the second time and look how that transpired. Chill yer boots and enjoy the ride. No one ever said being a Stoke fan was easy, but at least it’s unpredictable. I agree with almost all you say but I think the Jones arrival ( and how many times do I have to say I have No problem with Jones other than wrong man wrong time.) is more like Pulis first time round. Ive seen managers come and go and the Coates family have a pretty poor record overall but now they have the cash we should do better end of.
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Post by firfuxache on Mar 10, 2019 21:45:52 GMT
Or just read through your posting history that’d be enough to do it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Progress takes time which can be ruined very quickly. We were years in the making before we hit the Premier League. By Coates own admission it was probably the last throw of the dice with what we had spent on transfers to attain what we did. Pulis assembled a squad that was able to give a good account of itself and could compete over 90 minutes with anyone. Change to Hughes and a little more progress was made with the era of Stokealona. But upon losing the semi to Liverpool and a few more pre-cursors before that we looked like a team on the decline. 3 years to become as bad as we have, yet you seem to insinuate from your generally negative posts that Jones should have us ripping trees up and making a late charge for the play offs. Given the massive change in approach that the players now have to games it gives football fans a real glimpse of what is to come give the right backing. To those who can’t see the broader picture it seems as if we have made no progress. I, for one, can see the change. Admittedly I would have like to see a few more points on the board, but being a realist I’m looking at what is being built and am happy to see what we can achieve. We’re probably in the same situation as we were just after Pulis was appointed for the second time and look how that transpired. Chill yer boots and enjoy the ride. No one ever said being a Stoke fan was easy, but at least it’s unpredictable. I agree with almost all you say but I think the Jones arrival ( and how many times do I have to say I have No problem with Jones other than wrong man wrong time.) is more like Pulis first time round. Ive seen managers come and go and the Coates family have a pretty poor record overall but now they have the cash we should do better end of. Reading your posts, it seems you do have a problem with Jones. So all cash on the table, who would you appoint as manager of a struggling Championship side floundering with players that have a habit of turning in sub standard performances? Please don’t say Alladyce or Moyes as these guys wouldn’t be able to do anything about changing the mindset of the playing squad.
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Post by stokeson on Mar 10, 2019 22:08:14 GMT
I agree with almost all you say but I think the Jones arrival ( and how many times do I have to say I have No problem with Jones other than wrong man wrong time.) is more like Pulis first time round. Ive seen managers come and go and the Coates family have a pretty poor record overall but now they have the cash we should do better end of. Reading your posts, it seems you do have a problem with Jones. So all cash on the table, who would you appoint as manager of a struggling Championship side floundering with players that have a habit of turning in sub standard performances? Please don’t say Alladyce or Moyes as these guys wouldn’t be able to do anything about changing the mindset of the playing squad. Tin hat on .I would have stuck with Hughes till the end of the season .Then looked around . OSF was one I would have been happy with. We were a stuggling premiership side until Lambert. The rest is a story of lack of ambition.
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Post by firfuxache on Mar 10, 2019 22:19:56 GMT
Reading your posts, it seems you do have a problem with Jones. So all cash on the table, who would you appoint as manager of a struggling Championship side floundering with players that have a habit of turning in sub standard performances? Please don’t say Alladyce or Moyes as these guys wouldn’t be able to do anything about changing the mindset of the playing squad. Tin hat on .I would have stuck with Hughes till the end of the season .Then looked around . OSF was one I would have been happy with. We were a stuggling premiership side until Lambert. The rest is a story of lack of ambition. Even the most staunch of Stoke supporters would disagree with that Lambert statement. We were more that struggling under Hughes in his last 18 months. Lambert was a stop gap solution because of the way the QSF situation was played out. The what ifs aren’t even worth considering as you could easily point to Brighton and Huddersfield at home as the final nails in the coffin. Each to their own opinion but I’m afraid I’ll have to agree to disagree on this point with you.
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Post by Gods on Mar 10, 2019 22:50:46 GMT
Reading your posts, it seems you do have a problem with Jones. So all cash on the table, who would you appoint as manager of a struggling Championship side floundering with players that have a habit of turning in sub standard performances? Please don’t say Alladyce or Moyes as these guys wouldn’t be able to do anything about changing the mindset of the playing squad. Tin hat on .I would have stuck with Hughes till the end of the season .Then looked around . OSF was one I would have been happy with. We were a stuggling premiership side until Lambert. The rest is a story of lack of ambition. I'm probably in a minority of 1 but I still believe Hughes would have found the extra 3 points (or 4 with GD) needed to keep us in the PL, I don't believe he would have led us through the 12 match win'less run that Lambert did. Our board lost it's collective nerve and we are reaping the consequences.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 11, 2019 12:04:37 GMT
Tin hat on .I would have stuck with Hughes till the end of the season .Then looked around . OSF was one I would have been happy with. We were a stuggling premiership side until Lambert. The rest is a story of lack of ambition. I'm probably in a minority of 1 but I still believe Hughes would have found the extra 3 points (or 4 with GD) needed to keep us in the PL, I don't believe he would have led us through the 12 match win'less run that Lambert did. Our board lost it's collective nerve and we are reaping the consequences. I have also given this much thought and analysis. Of course no one knows what would have happened. If you examine our record though last season we actually did better than many expected for the first 10 matches. We had a tough opening fixture list. I then expected our results to get better as we started to play teams lower in the table, but the reality was our performances and results got worse. During the rest of the season we were only capable of beating the other teams threatened with relegation (Swansea, Huddersfield, and West Brom), our performances were dire under Hughes towards the end of his tenure. Would Hughes have got more points than Lambert? There is no evidence to suggest he would, in fact all the indications are to me that Lambert tightened up our defending and we got draws where we would probably have lost if Hughes had been in charge. You could argue that Hughes less defensive method could have resulted in an extra victory or two, but where? Watford maybe, or Burnley maybe? But I'm also sure we would have lost under Hughes to Leicester, Southampton, West Ham, and Liverpool where we achieved draws under Lambert. So I don't think we would have picked up many extra points if any. I would also suggest that the Swansea result was a dead rubber and could have been a different outcome if the future of both clubs had depended on the result. Consequently our final position in the league may actually have flattered us a bit. Certainly by the end of the season (April-May) West Brom were putting in better performances/results than we were. As I said we never will know, but I don't think it is worth continuing to agonise over what happened, it's history. I'm pretty sure we would have gone down no matter who was in charge, knowing what we do now about the players. The fans cried out for "rock the city" signings, we made record signings and they were total failures, excluding Shaq.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 11, 2019 12:08:49 GMT
Tin hat on .I would have stuck with Hughes till the end of the season .Then looked around . OSF was one I would have been happy with. We were a stuggling premiership side until Lambert. The rest is a story of lack of ambition. I'm probably in a minority of 1 but I still believe Hughes would have found the extra 3 points (or 4 with GD) needed to keep us in the PL, I don't believe he would have led us through the 12 match win'less run that Lambert did. Our board lost it's collective nerve and we are reaping the consequences. It lost its nerve by not sacking him that summer. He shouldn't have had us anywhere near the relegation mix, that we were owes almost everything to him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 18:21:26 GMT
Well we could. We wont but no thanks to a point a game . Anybody still mentioning the possibility of being relegated is talking nonsense. You just did!
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Post by nonameface on Mar 11, 2019 18:27:23 GMT
Tin hat on .I would have stuck with Hughes till the end of the season .Then looked around . OSF was one I would have been happy with. We were a stuggling premiership side until Lambert. The rest is a story of lack of ambition. I'm probably in a minority of 1 but I still believe Hughes would have found the extra 3 points (or 4 with GD) needed to keep us in the PL, I don't believe he would have led us through the 12 match win'less run that Lambert did. Our board lost it's collective nerve and we are reaping the consequences. I can't imagine how anyone could have done as poorly as Lambert. Lambert was easily the worst manager we've had in the last 20 years. He made it so we needed a miracle each game to win and went all defensive and regimented, which with the players we had was only ever going to result in relegation. Hughes would have kept us up, but he shouldn't have had the luxury of even starting the season with us. But does any of this change our present position?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 18:29:51 GMT
I Would Hughes have got more points than Lambert? There is no evidence to suggest he would There remains the indication that Hughes had in each of the four previous seasons gone through periods of not doing very well but was then able to pick it up and return us to a better place. He was stopped from doing it again, with players that trusted him. It also looks as if Lambert, based on Ipswich and ourselves, does not have the managerial powers to get a struggling team going. So there's a fair chance Hughes might have picked up more points.
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Post by Gods on Mar 11, 2019 18:41:34 GMT
I Would Hughes have got more points than Lambert? There is no evidence to suggest he would There remains the indication that Hughes had in each of the four previous seasons gone through periods of not doing very well but was then able to pick it up and return us to a better place. He was stopped from doing it again, with players that trusted him. It also looks as if Lambert, based on Ipswich and ourselves, does not have the managerial powers to get a struggling team going. So there's a fair chance Hughes might have picked up more points. I just always felt there was a win or two somewhere in Hughes, and that was all we needed across those 12 win'less fixture at least 3 or 4 of which were as easy as you could home to get in the Prem. Still as someone else said no point in agonising but I still will for ever or as long as it takes us to get back in to the Prem, which ever comes soonest
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Post by Gods on Mar 11, 2019 18:42:44 GMT
I'm probably in a minority of 1 but I still believe Hughes would have found the extra 3 points (or 4 with GD) needed to keep us in the PL, I don't believe he would have led us through the 12 match win'less run that Lambert did. Our board lost it's collective nerve and we are reaping the consequences. It lost its nerve by not sacking him that summer. He shouldn't have had us anywhere near the relegation mix, that we were owes almost everything to him. I think the summer before would have been fine to sack him or indeed the summer after but just not when we did when we had no sensible replacement lined up.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Mar 11, 2019 18:44:30 GMT
Basically not a lot has happened in 10 games progression wise from where we were. Are we more attacking? No. are we better defensively. No. Are we more exciting to watch? No. Are we worse than before? No.
So there we are, sod all changed really except for the manager.
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Post by onefatcopper on Mar 11, 2019 19:03:12 GMT
I Would Hughes have got more points than Lambert? There is no evidence to suggest he would There remains the indication that Hughes had in each of the four previous seasons gone through periods of not doing very well but was then able to pick it up and return us to a better place. He was stopped from doing it again, with players that trusted him. It also looks as if Lambert, based on Ipswich and ourselves, does not have the managerial powers to get a struggling team going. So there's a fair chance Hughes might have picked up more points. 5 League defeats from the previous 7 matches, conceded 5 goals or more in 3 League matches, 47 League goals conceded so far that season, the worst in the league and in Europe, 2-1 defeat to Coventry in the FA Cup, 50+ million pounds worth of clubs finances WASTED ! Oh and the fans had turned on him ? He was doing a Stirling job wasn’t he !
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Post by trout-licker on Mar 13, 2019 1:54:32 GMT
Shawcross has improved under him. BMI has improved under him. Edwards has improved under him. Butland looks more confident that he has in a while. Joe Allen has improved under him. Etebo has improved under him.
McClean has neither improved or regressed under him. Charlie Adam has improved under him, by default of being picked. This sums it up for me. He's instilled confidence in a lot of players that got used to losing He's made GR's signings look better after 10 games than they have all season When he gets his own team sorted that fit his ethos I honestly think we'll be up there next season Bathh looks like a CB we've been lacking since Huth was pushed out by Hughes and Vokes will only get better
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Mar 13, 2019 4:06:08 GMT
Afobe has just put in his best two performances under him I agree. I can't wait for him to give Bojan an extended run. Then we might crack the problem of creation and scoring goals. I have one issue with the OP. I thought we were quite good for 60 minutes at Hull and had Vokes not missed the penalty Bojan might have stayed on and we won the game. Our Achilles heel that day was Clucas. I think bojan will be sub for the rest of the season, sadly.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 13, 2019 13:26:11 GMT
I Would Hughes have got more points than Lambert? There is no evidence to suggest he would There remains the indication that Hughes had in each of the four previous seasons gone through periods of not doing very well but was then able to pick it up and return us to a better place. He was stopped from doing it again, with players that trusted him. It also looks as if Lambert, based on Ipswich and ourselves, does not have the managerial powers to get a struggling team going. So there's a fair chance Hughes might have picked up more points. If you read my full post above I did concede it was possible we would have picked up more points under Hughes, but 1. It is doubtful there would have been enough as based on the facts that we lost to West Ham, Liverpool, and Burnley under Hughes but picked up points under Lambert. 2. If you extrapolate the current rate of scoring points under Hughes during his last few months into the rest of the season, we would not have got significantly more points; the way we were playing probably less. 3. Would we have beaten Swansea in the last match if it had not been a dead rubber and both teams under extreme pressure from a critical result? In fact it could have been like a "cup match" to decide who stayed up and we know how good bad we have been in cup games in recent seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 17:17:05 GMT
There remains the indication that Hughes had in each of the four previous seasons gone through periods of not doing very well but was then able to pick it up and return us to a better place. He was stopped from doing it again, with players that trusted him. It also looks as if Lambert, based on Ipswich and ourselves, does not have the managerial powers to get a struggling team going. So there's a fair chance Hughes might have picked up more points. If you read my full post above I did concede it was possible we would have picked up more points under Hughes, but 1. It is doubtful there would have been enough as based on the facts that we lost to West Ham, Liverpool, and Burnley under Hughes but picked up points under Lambert. 2. If you extrapolate the current rate of scoring points under Hughes during his last few months into the rest of the season, we would not have got significantly more points; the way we were playing probably less. 3. Would we have beaten Swansea in the last match if it had not been a dead rubber and both teams under extreme pressure from a critical result? In fact it could have been like a "cup match" to decide who stayed up and we know how good bad we have been in cup games in recent seasons. All right, you want to talk facts. The facts remain that Hughes has never been relegated. He proved that last season as he kept a relegation bound club up. Too bad it wasn't Stoke.
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Post by AlliG on Mar 13, 2019 18:43:35 GMT
Southampton picked up 8 points from their last 8 games after the appointment of Mark Hughes.
I am not sure that a team that survives by picking up one point a game can de described as "relegation bound".
Mark Hughes may never have been in charge of a team when relegation was confirmed but I struggle to see anyone can consider he has no responsibility for the relegation of QPR.
At the time of his sacking, their record was:
Played 12, Won 0, Drawn 4, Lost 8, Scored 9, Conceded 23, Points 4.
A record to be proud of!!!!
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Mar 13, 2019 18:51:12 GMT
Shawcross has improved under him. BMI has improved under him. Edwards has improved under him. Butland looks more confident that he has in a while. Joe Allen has improved under him. Etebo has improved under him.
McClean has neither improved or regressed under him. Charlie Adam has improved under him, by default of being picked. My erection strength has improved under him, not literally under him!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 18:58:32 GMT
Shawcross has improved under him. BMI has improved under him. Edwards has improved under him. Butland looks more confident that he has in a while. Joe Allen has improved under him. Etebo has improved under him.
McClean has neither improved or regressed under him. Charlie Adam has improved under him, by default of being picked. My erection strength has improved under him, not literally under him! Ok.
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Post by kjpt140v on Mar 13, 2019 22:08:31 GMT
So, NJ has been in charge for 10 league games now, and acquired 10 points in the process. When he started I posted about the likely 'bumpy ride' we'd face during the first 8-10 games, and it's certainly seemed to play out that way! Some real low points (Hull and Preston spring to mind) mixed in with 2 very good wins. It does feel like we're coming out a better team at the end of it I must admit. I thought yesterday's showing was an incredibly positive one considering the circumstances, and for 2 and a half games out of the last 3 we've genuinely been the better team than our opponents. We've looked pretty solid and less likely to make those crucial mistakes that were so (so) costly. NJ is starting to look a little more at ease in his press conferences as, I think, the team are starting to show on matchday what he's been demanding of them. We're on a mini run of no defeats and we're looking more like a proper team/unit rather than a bunch of individuals who haven't a clue what the others are doing. There's no denying that results have been disappointing though, and we've really not seen - or at least, I don't think we have - how he will set up offensively in the long-term. We still create very few chances and there's very little pace to our play in the final third. We look fitter and there's more energy to us, for sure, but we still lack cutting edge and genuine quality in our decision making. Hopefully this side of the game will come now we have gained a bit of solidity and consistency in our defensive shape. Progress, but it's been slow. Looking forward to the next phases of development! Less points than Rowett ( who I never wanted) no more Diamond and crazy subs. Yep so much progress. Do you know anything about the game? There has been a lot of progress. We were going no where with Rowlett plus the style of football was awful. What we have now is a manager that has set out his plans and is following them through, he is decisive in what he does, he's not afraid to upset established players and is having to work with players that don't fit the bill. I for one am willing to give him time.
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Post by kjpt140v on Mar 13, 2019 22:10:24 GMT
GR had a full pre season and his own signings. Was hardly going change over night. Puts us a step ahead for hopefully a much more successful 2019/2020. Yeah, Yeah ,Yeah .Its the hope that kills us.................... Grow some.
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