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Post by stokeson on Feb 27, 2019 16:44:47 GMT
Outs 1 Jack Butland - Good goalkeeper but cash, in too bigger profile for a Championship and his emotions may effect other players. 2 Moritz Bauer - We have Edwards and to big profile to be squad player, let's free the wages. 4 Joe Allen - Committed and professional but just time for a change lets free up the wages for a different type of Championship midfielder with Premiership potential, natural churn. 5 Ashley Williams - Season loan no point in taking it any further 7 Tom Ince - Just doesn't seem like a Stoke player lets look for an alternative 10 Benik Afobe - Will anyone take him. (Both Ince and Afobe have been terrible signings) 12 Josh Tymon - Just not worked out 15 Bruno Martins Indi - Again committed and professional but time for a change let's find a strong left sided centre back to storm the Championship with. 18 Mame Biram Diouf - Yet again committed and professional but time for a change, not really suited for a Championship challenge lets look for younger stock with potential, natural churn. 19 Saido Berahino - __________ 24 Darren Fletcher - No point in taking it any further. Unsure 8 Peter Etebo - Down to the player really does he want to leave. 17 Ryan Shawcross - Retain as centre back squad cover and knows the club or does he seek new challenges. Retains 10 Sam Vokes 11 James McClean 14 Danny Batth 16 Charlie Adam 22 Sam Clucas 27 Bojan 30 Tom Edwards 32 Adam Federici 38 Ryan Woods I think we are looking at making anywhere between ten to twelve new signings if we can move those players mentioned on, a fresh clean out of the decks and a new era. This is what i think will realistically happen... Goalkeepers Jack Butland - Too good for this league, surely a mid-table premier league club will come in for him. Going. Adam Federici - Backup this season, will be backup again next season. Staying. Jakob Haugaard - It was pointless giving him an extension in my opinion last season. Shown he is not up to the standard required to be even anywhere near the squad. Going. Defenders Ryan Shawcross - Club Legend whose legs are going. Cant see anyone in the prem coming in for him, and wont move to another championship club. Will be back up next season. Staying for 1 more year. Bruno Martins Indi - On his day a top defender, but, like most of our squad this season, hasnt covered himself in glory. Looks to be slowly developing a good partnership with Batth. Staying. Ashley Williams - Loan ends at the end of the season, on big money and hasnt convinced. Going. Danny Batth - Looks good so far, like the leader we have been missing at the back. Staying. Kevin Wimmer - Wants to get out, we want him gone, will cut our losses massively to get him out. Going. Moritz Bauer - Would suit a potential diamond for next season perfectly. However, seems to have lost favour with NJ and can see a bottom half prem team or maybe a german club coming in for him. Going. Tommy Edwards - Looks to be our first choice right-back at the moment, and a local lad. Staying. Erik Pieters - It tells you everything that hes been sent out on loan, even though he was the only out and out left-back who can cope at this level. Going. Josh Tymon - Will go out on loan to a league 1/2 club, with the potential to move permanently. Has shown to be out of his depth even at championship level. Loan. Midfielders Darren Fletcher - Is just running down his contract, NJ obviously doesnt see him as part of his plans short or long term. A goner in all but name. Going. Charlie Adam - Looked to be a goner under Rowett. Has been given a chance in a new deep lying role by NJ, which doesnt neccessarily require him to do that much leg-work, and has looked good. Also, our best passer and creative outlet by far. Staying for 1 more year. Joe Allen - Works his bollocks off, leads by example, and undoubtedly our most consistent performer this year. A mid-to-lower prem team will come in for him. Going. Peter Etebo - After a mixed start is starting to grow into this side, albeit needs to work on his fitness and look to be more consistent across a full 90 minutes. Staying. Ryan Woods - Fallen away since a very solid start. Will be cover next season. Staying. Geoff Cameron - I feel hes ideal for the championship, can cover at centre-back and right-back, and he offers that physicality that we desperately lack through the middle, as proved by his time at QPR before he got injured. However, i can see him going back to the US. Going. Sam Clucas - Will be cover for next season. Started well, been poor recently, but played well against Villa. Staying. Gianelli Imbula - No-one will touch him with a barge pole as a permanent signing. Will go out on loan until his contract runs out. Loan. Lasse Sorensen - Doesnt look to be in NJs plan, not short term anyway. Will go out to league 1 or top end of league 2 to get experience. Loan. Badou Ndiaye - Reckon he will go back to Turkey, we will lose money. Going. Attackers Tom Ince - Flatters to deceive at times, but cant doubt he has quality at this level. Question is, if we look to go forward without wingers, would NJ see him as a 10, even though he hasnt convinced in that role. Loan with option to buy. James McClean - Unless MON busts a nut to take him to forest, he will be a squad player next season. Staying. Bojan - Obviously unhappy at the club, NJ doesnt seem to like the look of him, plus flatters to deceive. Someone will go for him. Going. Sam Vokes - Got his first goal on Saturday, hope he will push on from there. Staying. Benik Afobe - Hasnt lived up to the hype here, looks dis-interested and it tells you everything that NJ would rather put Diouf on ahead of him even though Diouf hasnt played first-team football consistently for a few months. Someone might take a chance on him on loan as his record at this level is still decent. Loan with option to buy. Mame Diouf - Unhappy here, wrong side of 30 and not in NJs plans. Going. Saido Berahino - Our highest earner (apparently on £80k a week), with over 3 years to go on his contract. Will run his contract down here, as i doubt no-one would even dare to gamble on him even as a loan signing. Staying unless we can find a way to sack. Tyrese Campbell - Ridiculous that he is out on loan when we have only one striker who NJ seems to trust at the moment. NJ seemed keen, he started the 3 games before he went. Will be a starter next season. Staying. So, at the club next season, i predict we will have Federici Ryan BMI Batth Edwards Adam Etebo Woods Clucas Jimmy Mac Vokes Campbell Berahino (training on his own away from everyone else) so that makes 13 still on the books plus Tymon - loan out for match experience, potentially look to get rid. Imbula - to get him off our books for another season and free up at least part of the wage Sorensen - for game time Ince - to potenially sell Afobe - to potentially sell the 5 above who will be out on loan. I would expect to see 7-8 signings in the summer, and, if we can manage to get rid of Ince and Afobe permantly at the end of the loan, possibly 2 or 3 more on loan with obligation/option to buy. Outstanding post .Best Ive felt about the oatcake for weeks. Well done.
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Post by owdestokie on Feb 27, 2019 17:36:35 GMT
We really don’t have to be concerned.
Our CEO and Technical Director are already on the case for Ins & Outs for next season. Lessons learned will prevail and we’ll be on the ball for a solid promotion push
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Post by Miles Offside on Feb 27, 2019 18:15:01 GMT
Outs 1 Jack Butland - Good goalkeeper but cash, in too bigger profile for a Championship and his emotions may effect other players. 2 Moritz Bauer - We have Edwards and to big profile to be squad player, let's free the wages. 4 Joe Allen - Committed and professional but just time for a change lets free up the wages for a different type of Championship midfielder with Premiership potential, natural churn. 5 Ashley Williams - Season loan no point in taking it any further 7 Tom Ince - Just doesn't seem like a Stoke player lets look for an alternative 10 Benik Afobe - Will anyone take him. (Both Ince and Afobe have been terrible signings) 12 Josh Tymon - Just not worked out 15 Bruno Martins Indi - Again committed and professional but time for a change let's find a strong left sided centre back to storm the Championship with. 18 Mame Biram Diouf - Yet again committed and professional but time for a change, not really suited for a Championship challenge lets look for younger stock with potential, natural churn. 19 Saido Berahino - __________ 24 Darren Fletcher - No point in taking it any further. Unsure 8 Peter Etebo - Down to the player really does he want to leave. 17 Ryan Shawcross - Retain as centre back squad cover and knows the club or does he seek new challenges. Retains 10 Sam Vokes 11 James McClean 14 Danny Batth 16 Charlie Adam 22 Sam Clucas 27 Bojan 30 Tom Edwards 32 Adam Federici 38 Ryan Woods I think we are looking at making anywhere between ten to twelve new signings if we can move those players mentioned on, a fresh clean out of the decks and a new era. I'd keep Butland, Bauer, Ince, BMI, Afobe, Allen, Etebo, Shawcross, Vokes, McClean, Baath, Clucas, Edwards and Woods. But the manager needs to get more out of them individually and as a group. Charlie is the best midfielder we've got, but we need players who can see the 90 minutes out. Maybe we need an upgrade on Federici. The rest can go.
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Post by scfc75 on Feb 27, 2019 18:20:25 GMT
I honestly wouldn’t be sad to see the back of the lot of them.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 27, 2019 18:39:48 GMT
I think we'd struggle to get fees for most of them given the wages most of 'em are on and the kind of teams who'd be interested. To shift them, we'd have to be very, very flexible.
2019 -(Williams) Going Haugaard Going -Adam Almost sure to be going. Slight chance of 1-yr extension -Fletcher Going
2020 -Federici May as well stay as back-up. -Pieters Doesn't look like there was much interest beyond placing him on loan at Amiens at the last minute? Small fee at best, but going. -Cameron Free transfer at best, but going. -Bojan Assuming West Brom's offer for Bojan was a free given his wages? And New England's supposedly was. But almost certainly going. -Diouf Possibly on a free. He's 32 in December, but going.
2021 -Butland £10m-ish? Likely to be going. Needs a Prem move really. -Shawcross Free transfer at best and maybe a pay-off to ease the way given his huge wage packet? But one we'd obviously like to go. -Imbula Slight chance of a move now he's playing. But not many teams who'd want him could get near £35k-a-week he's probably still on. He's not pulling up any trees. Loan possibly best we can do.
2022 -Bauer Hard to see much interest if his contract is as crazy as it could be if he's back on Premier League-type money on his new deal. Could be on the kind of long-term wages that will make him very hard to move, but doesn't look like one Jones rates or wants around. -Edwards Stay -BMI Maybe a market in Europe of some kind. Wouldn't be against him staying, but probably going. -Souttar Stay -Tymon Nominal if he goes, but may be one that hangs around -Wimmer Maybe a chance of him going at £3-4m to somewhere in Germany, if not Hannover? He seems very, very keen to leave which will help us -McClean Hard to see him having any future here in a diamond, despite Jones obviously liking his character. 3 more years on money far outweighing his usefulness to anyone though, so hard to shift.
-Ndiaye Could be a market at less than half we paid. -Allen £12m? Quite surprised if he stayed. -Clucas Likely to stay maybe. We will need some players. Improving slowly, and versatile. -Berahino Hopefully sacked. If not, no chance of shifting him -Ince If he can't adapt to number 10, we'll have to possibly look to sell. But, despite his good Championship record, who'd offer decent money and top C'ship wages? -Vokes Stay -Batth Stay -Verlinden Stay -Ngoy Interesting to see if he goes to Grasshopper permanently. There is an option, isn't there?
2023 -Etebo Hope he stays, but there'd be takers at what we paid. He'd probably be keen to move on if possible. -Sorensen Stay
Unknown contract expiry
-Woods No idea. Doesn't seem to be rated by Jones. Will be on very good C'ship money though. Quite hard to shift. -Afobe Very, very hard to shift on top Championship wages after this season. What kind of teams would be interested, and at what kind of fee?
-Campbell Stay
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 19:36:37 GMT
[/quote]But what about Badou N'Diaye can't believe you've forgotten him already :-)[/quote]
No didn't include him for obvious reasons, he is quite welcome to **** right off and so can Imbula and Wimmer!
Mind you if Wimmer can come back 2 stone slimmer and with the right attitude Id consider reintegrating him into the team. Its not as if the door is being broken down by other teams to sign him so its down to him.
Cameron and Pieters are hiccups we need to move on from - natural churn.
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Post by mrteddysalad on Feb 27, 2019 21:31:17 GMT
is there any chance Wimmer isn’t toss anymore?
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Post by AlliG on Feb 27, 2019 21:46:07 GMT
is there any chance Wimmer isn’t toss anymore? Over the weekend playing for Hannover on the left side of the defence he had a choice to come over and pick up the forward standing unmarked on the penalty spot or to chase right over to the other post after a player who already had 2 players around him. Let's just say that the bloke on the penalty spot had all the time and space in the world to score. It wuld be fair to say that the commentators were unimpressed with the defending!
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Post by mrteddysalad on Feb 27, 2019 22:06:32 GMT
is there any chance Wimmer isn’t toss anymore? Over the weekend playing for Hannover on the left side of the defence he had a choice to come over and pick up the forward standing unmarked on the penalty spot or to chase right over to the other post after a player who already had 2 players around him. Let's just say that the bloke on the penalty spot had all the time and space in the world to score. It wuld be fair to say that the commentators were unimpressed with the defending!
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Post by samba :) on Feb 27, 2019 22:37:31 GMT
Out Mcclean Bauer Mcclean Williams Shawx Mcclean Probably allen will go Bojan Ndiaye Mcclean Diouf Berahino Mcclean
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 22:45:26 GMT
Williams, Pieters, Woods, Adam, Fletcher, Ince, McClean, Afobe, Diouf, Allen, Wimmer, Saido,
Can all go. Other than Allen, none are good enough for what we require,
The reason I put Allen on the list, we need the money he’d generate and for this level, we could probably find someone who’s on much less wage but could do a similar role.
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Post by potter25 on Feb 27, 2019 23:17:23 GMT
Get rid of the lot! every single fucking one. Now I know it might be my frustration talking, but I fail to see how thing could be any worse if we kicked them all out. Bit like in scrabble when you’ve a rack full of vowels
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Post by jontimmis on Feb 27, 2019 23:17:42 GMT
To clear this out is gonna take 2-3 years.
He won’t be given another 50m that’s we’ve already spent I wouldn’t be surprised if Coates goes all Moshiri you’ve spent enough make it fucking work!!
Not a chance in hell!
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Post by tony1234 on Feb 27, 2019 23:58:04 GMT
I'd be surprised if we get 10 new signings and they wouldn't be decent ones, we'd have to spend £110m at least. Sorry but that's just ridiculous, spend £110m what the fook for? Have you seen the top in the championship? As a reminder it's Norwich, Sheffield United who've spend the square root of bugger all. All we've done for 2 years is spend, spend, spend and ended up with the likes of a £110m worth of Wimmer, Imbula, N'Diaye, Afobe, Ince, Berahino, Woods, Clucas & Etebo. In this division it's been proved many times it's not always what you spend, it's a lot more about characters, heart, skill and ambition. Chucking £110m will get us the same spineless characters mentioned above, the time is for younger hungrier players with character who've still got it all to prove, not another bunch of overpaid tossers who think they're to good for us. Bang on. Look at the top scorers for instance:- Pukki - free Sharp - 2m Adams - 2m Abraham - loan Maupay 1.6m
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Post by 3putts on Feb 28, 2019 6:01:51 GMT
the only player I would keep who has a bit of passion in him is jack butland but sadly he will probably be the first to go.i honestly would not lose any sleep if the entire squad was sacked for incompetence, there is not one player I would be sad to see the back of and in nearly 40 years of supporting stoke that is the first time I have said that!!
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Post by 3putts on Feb 28, 2019 6:04:12 GMT
Sorry but that's just ridiculous, spend £110m what the fook for? Have you seen the top in the championship? As a reminder it's Norwich, Sheffield United who've spend the square root of bugger all. All we've done for 2 years is spend, spend, spend and ended up with the likes of a £110m worth of Wimmer, Imbula, N'Diaye, Afobe, Ince, Berahino, Woods, Clucas & Etebo. In this division it's been proved many times it's not always what you spend, it's a lot more about characters, heart, skill and ambition. Chucking £110m will get us the same spineless characters mentioned above, the time is for younger hungrier players with character who've still got it all to prove, not another bunch of overpaid tossers who think they're to good for us. Bang on. Look at the top scorers for instance:- Pukki - free Sharp - 2m Adams - 2m Abraham - loan Maupay 1.6m problem is when you highlight that list it is probably 1% of players who have moved for under 2m sometimes you get lucky like us with steino but most times you end up with a dave bamber
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 28, 2019 6:13:05 GMT
The most annoying phrase to emerge on this mb since Rowett left. Players under contract cannot be 'cleared out'. Only those with something to offer will move on with ease - how many of those are on your list? Exactly! Don't forget we have Wimmer, Imbula, Badou, Campbell, Souttar and Ngoy on loan to come back, even if a few of them we would prefer not to. Add the last three to the retained list and the first three to "we would love to clear them out, but no bugger wants them" list, which might be quite lengthy! I don’t know why, but I think jones will like Ngoy. Anyone and idea how he be getting on
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Post by heworksardtho on Feb 28, 2019 6:34:37 GMT
Fuck m all off 😎
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 28, 2019 8:22:04 GMT
I wouldn’t be to concerned if Jack left as our Technical Director’s “Recruitment and Talent Management” experience which got him the job in the first place will stand us see us in a good position in being able to attract a Goalkeeper with the same pedigree that we have been used to over the last decade or so.
I mean if an ex Goalkeeper can’t recruit a replacement who can?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 8:29:43 GMT
I wouldn’t be to concerned if Jack left as our Technical Director’s “Recruitment and Talent Management” experience which got him the job in the first place will stand us see us in a good position in being able to attract a Goalkeeper with the same pedigree that we have been used to over the last decade or so. I mean if an ex Goalkeeper can’t recruit a replacement who can? Personified by the signing of Lee Grant. He was widely reported as a Carto recommendation, even if he was a well known player. He did well for us for a period and that type of signing, for a low fee, will go down well alongside another young signing like Butland, another Carto signing. That would give us a handy stable of two experienced players alongside a younger keeper to replace the outgoing Butland for a biggish fee and Haugaard.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 28, 2019 8:34:15 GMT
I wouldn’t be to concerned if Jack left as our Technical Director’s “Recruitment and Talent Management” experience which got him the job in the first place will stand us see us in a good position in being able to attract a Goalkeeper with the same pedigree that we have been used to over the last decade or so. I mean if an ex Goalkeeper can’t recruit a replacement who can? Personified by the signing of Lee Grant. He was widely reported as a Carto recommendation, even if he was a well known player. He did well for us for a period and that type of signing, for a low fee, will go down well alongside another young signing like Butland, another Carto signing. That would give us a handy stable of two experienced players alongside a younger keeper to replace the outgoing Butland for a biggish fee and Haugaard. Wasn't Grant said to be a Andy Quy recommendation at the time, having worked with him at Derby? An interesting name that a couple of people have mentioned on here is a Begovic part/ex with Jack? Being kept out of the team by the shit Artur Boruc. And Bournemouth one of the few Prem teams that'd see Butland as an upgrade?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 8:38:36 GMT
Personified by the signing of Lee Grant. He was widely reported as a Carto recommendation, even if he was a well known player. He did well for us for a period and that type of signing, for a low fee, will go down well alongside another young signing like Butland, another Carto signing. That would give us a handy stable of two experienced players alongside a younger keeper to replace the outgoing Butland for a biggish fee and Haugaard. Wasn't Grant said to be a Andy Quy recommendation at the time, having worked with him at Derby? An interesting name that a couple of people have mentioned on here is a Begovic part/ex with Jack? Being kept out of the team by the shit Artur Boruc. And Bournemouth one of the few Prem teams that'd see Butland as an upgrade? I stand corrected on Grant. We'll give him the Butland one... Would have thought Begovic would have far greater options than us?
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Post by jarvinski on Feb 28, 2019 8:49:00 GMT
Charlie is the only decent player in the squad, and you want to release him, thank fuck you dont pick the team
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 28, 2019 9:38:53 GMT
I wouldn’t be to concerned if Jack left as our Technical Director’s “Recruitment and Talent Management” experience which got him the job in the first place will stand us see us in a good position in being able to attract a Goalkeeper with the same pedigree that we have been used to over the last decade or so. I mean if an ex Goalkeeper can’t recruit a replacement who can? Personified by the signing of Lee Grant. He was widely reported as a Carto recommendation, even if he was a well known player. He did well for us for a period and that type of signing, for a low fee, will go down well alongside another young signing like Butland, another Carto signing. That would give us a handy stable of two experienced players alongside a younger keeper to replace the outgoing Butland for a biggish fee and Haugaard. Grant was a Hughes signing I think? He was a longtime admirer of the player and wanted to sign him when he was Citeh manager?
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Post by Scrotnig on Feb 28, 2019 11:05:48 GMT
I’d keep Vokes and Batth. Everyone else can go for me. I’d like to keep Bojan but clearly no manager in the world likes him so I accept that’s over.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 11:19:26 GMT
So the general consensus seems to be 10 - 12 in the 'clear out'. That is utopia. Half of that would be considered a success and 3-4 is realistic, with most of those off contract. We have players on big money that no other teams appear interested in. About the only transfer offer we know of in the recent window was Bojan... and he can't even get a run in the team.
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Post by lordb on Feb 28, 2019 12:19:06 GMT
So the general consensus seems to be 10 - 12 in the 'clear out'. That is utopia. Half of that would be considered a success and 3-4 is realistic, with most of those off contract. We have players on big money that no other teams appear interested in. About the only transfer offer we know of in the recent window was Bojan... and he can't even get a run in the team. More or less agree Suspect Stoke will heavily subsidise one or two exits and we end up with about six out of the door.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 28, 2019 12:33:38 GMT
We really don’t have to be concerned. Our CEO and Technical Director are already on the case for Ins & Outs for next season. Lessons learned will prevail and we’ll be on the ball for a solid promotion push What's the weather like in la la land?
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 28, 2019 12:33:55 GMT
So the general consensus seems to be 10 - 12 in the 'clear out'. That is utopia. Half of that would be considered a success and 3-4 is realistic, with most of those off contract. We have players on big money that no other teams appear interested in. About the only transfer offer we know of in the recent window was Bojan... and he can't even get a run in the team. More or less agree Suspect Stoke will heavily subsidise one or two exits and we end up with about six out of the door. I do think there'll be far more than that. Fletcher and Haugaard are guaranteed - then Adam if we choose to is another cert. Then we've got real low hanging fruit in the players who only have 1-yr left - Pieters, Diouf, Cameron, Bojan. Those will be easy to move on from (and we probably will) So that should be 7 banked easily enough. After that, it does get trickier. But Butland and Allen could get us £20m between them pretty easily. All the problems come with ones under contract to 2021 and beyond: 2021 Butland Shawcross Imbula 2022 Bauer BMI Wimmer McClean Allen Ndiaye Clucas Berahino Ince 2023 Etebo And presumably Woods and Afobe are 2023 too, though it wasn't disclosed?
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Post by nott1 on Feb 28, 2019 12:36:57 GMT
Sorry but that's just ridiculous, spend £110m what the fook for? Have you seen the top in the championship? As a reminder it's Norwich, Sheffield United who've spend the square root of bugger all. All we've done for 2 years is spend, spend, spend and ended up with the likes of a £110m worth of Wimmer, Imbula, N'Diaye, Afobe, Ince, Berahino, Woods, Clucas & Etebo. In this division it's been proved many times it's not always what you spend, it's a lot more about characters, heart, skill and ambition. Chucking £110m will get us the same spineless characters mentioned above, the time is for younger hungrier players with character who've still got it all to prove, not another bunch of overpaid tossers who think they're to good for us. Bang on. Look at the top scorers for instance:- Pukki - free Sharp - 2m Adams - 2m Abraham - loan Maupay 1.6m None of those will be availble for anywhere near those prices.
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