|
|
Post by maninasuitcase on Feb 17, 2019 9:52:08 GMT
Norwich fans seemed mightily unimpressed with him last season and were after his head.
However the powers stuck with him and the team are now bearing the fruits of his endeavour and look nailed on for promotion.
Stoke now have a similar issue.
Fans restless.
Team useless.
However we surely have to give Jones a decent stab at the job and hope that he is getting some foundation and ideology in place for next season.
|
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 17, 2019 9:55:08 GMT
Recruitment has been the key to the Norwich success for me but I don’t have the same confidence in our recruitment team to deliver for us
|
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Feb 17, 2019 10:01:49 GMT
Recruitment has been the key to the Norwich success for me but I don’t have the same confidence in our recruitment team to deliver for us Yeah - I think the Farke comparison is very fair. His start there was completely disastrous. But, as you say, their recruitment has been spot on with Farke's contacts and their Director of Football, Webber, who seems really impressive. Recruitment is 90% of the equation and will determine everything. Carto and team don't exactly give you the same confidence. At least if we get a couple of Jones-driven pet picks from Luton, Jones will know what he's getting. |
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 17, 2019 10:02:49 GMT
We've paid 9m for another bloke that cant run to spearhead our attack to supplement 2 others that each cost 12m.
They picked up a 20 goal striker on a free transfer.
Good luck with doing a Norwich next season
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 10:06:51 GMT
It's worth remembering that Norwich have taken 3 seasons to get here though and they weren't in the same situation as us, in terms of the amount of time in the Premier league and the amount of poor signings collected.
We've come down with a fair few transfer windows of poor signings on top of poor signings etc
The other side of the coin is we have spent big money whereas they went down the Swansea road of selling big and buying cheap.
Right now you have to say that road looks far more sensible and far more profitable, both on and off the pitch.
|
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Feb 17, 2019 10:13:01 GMT
Norwich fans seemed mightily unimpressed with him last season and were after his head. However the powers stuck with him and the team are now bearing the fruits of his endeavour and look nailed on for promotion. Stoke now have a similar issue. Fans restless. Team useless. However we surely have to give Jones a decent stab at the job and hope that he is getting some foundation and ideology in place for next season. I understand the comparison but don’t think it’s necessarily a fair one from a fan’s point of view. Norwich were last relegated from the PL in the 15/16 season and had never really established themselves like we had having yo-yo’d a few times whilst we remained. For our ten seasons up there, they only had four. Their supporters expectations will have been lower than ours and middling out for a season or so probably wasn’t a huge disaster for them, especially as they had never been massive spenders. We are used to watching top level football and have been for a decade and have spent millions in the process, most of it spaffed away on rubbish in the last two years. I just think it’s easier to be patient in certain circumstances. Right now, we are in the middle of a shitstorm and it’s difficult to be positive or patient because the same mistakes are being made. |
|
|
|
Post by rawli on Feb 17, 2019 10:13:07 GMT
It's worth remembering that Norwich have taken 3 seasons to get here though and they weren't in the same situation as us, in terms of the amount of time in the Premier league and the amount of poor signings collected. We've come down with a fair few transfer windows of poor signings on top of poor signings etc The other side of the coin is we have spent big money whereas they went down the Swansea road of selling big and buying cheap. Right now you have to say that road looks far more sensible and far more profitable, both on and off the pitch. Just think where they'd be if they'd got someone with experience of the league. They'd both be promoted by now. |
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Feb 20, 2019 10:28:25 GMT
A superb video explaining why Norwich are where they are.
Key Points:
Norwich recruit former Huddersfield sporting director Stuart Webber to oversee scouting, Webber is an expert on 2nd-4th tier German football and the youth teams that play in those leagues.
Webber and Farke work closely together and to a philosophy of open minded transfer business from the continent, coupled with academy development. A very common model in Germany.
Webber and Farke completely revamp Norwich's academy development program, eliminating criteria holding back some players from breaking into the first team.
Norwich have a 50 million net profit from transfers in the last two years. Bringing in mainly foreign players from Germany and encouraging players to come from the youth side. A host of free transfers, statistically analysed by Webber's team.
Farke's 4-3-2-1 struggled to establish itself in his first season, leading to disappointing results and a lower mid-table finish. But his confidence to stick with the formation has this season paid dividends. The 4-3-2-1 will switch to a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 without the ball. Full backs will also tuck in to centreback to cover for their opposite number up the pitch. But more often than not, will make efforts to regain possession as high up the pitch as possible. Against teams that set up to shithouse, they will play a patient passing game, with the centre back bringing the ball out before overloading the middle of the pitch to free up wide overlaps and then drive into the space created.
What's interesting is that it took Farke two seasons to implement this system, signing players who many won't have heard of and certainly haven't been anywhere near the premier league. I feel what this does is point out our own inadequacies both in recruitment, the apparent ivory tower in which our transfer team seem to operate and just how much Jones squad does not currently fit his style of play. Let us hope that this time next year Jones gets his own video on this channel.
What is for certain, is that this emphasises just how crucial the transfer team is.....
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 11:25:17 GMT
Alan Partridge is the secret force behind Norwich
He's back in favour with the programme controller at the BBC and back in business
Back of the net, Alan
|
|
|
|
Post by SneydGreenStokie on Feb 20, 2019 12:13:30 GMT
Norwich fans are patient and knowledgable
Our fans are less so
SGS
|
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 20, 2019 12:51:41 GMT
Norwich fans are patient and knowledgable Our fans are less so SGS Yeah? Tell that to Chris Hughton. Or Mike Sheron. They're no more knowledgeable than ours or anyone else's. |
|
|
|
Post by biglad180 on Feb 20, 2019 12:54:45 GMT
Norwich fans are patient and knowledgable Our fans are less so SGS Fair play to Norwich there fans have always stuck buy them loyal fans.hope they do go up.not bothered about the other 2 as long as one is not duty leeds. |
|
|
|
Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Feb 20, 2019 13:08:35 GMT
As long as we have the current fuckwits ruling the roost over transfers, we're going nowhere.
|
|
|
|
Post by gingerninja on Feb 20, 2019 13:17:35 GMT
We really need to employ a football director who is on the same page as Jones moving forward. I am not a fan of this get me a pool of players which suit a certain criteria. What's wrong with a manager giving a list of players he wants, who fit his needs and do it that way. Are there any Luton players out of contract this summer?. I think the left back from Luton is a sure fire summer addition.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 13:49:29 GMT
We really need to employ a football director who is on the same page as Jones moving forward. I am not a fan of this get me a pool of players which suit a certain criteria. What's wrong with a manager giving a list of players he wants, who fit his needs and do it that way. Are there any Luton players out of contract this summer?. I think the left back from Luton is a sure fire summer addition. Absolutely this. The whole team have to be in sync - though I'd prefer Carto to just receive his bye bye bye |
|
|
|
Post by cousindupree on Feb 20, 2019 16:12:22 GMT
Norwich have gone down the overseas route with a manager and a good percentage of the team including a number of german players. I applaud such a bold strategy and it's ;ikely to get them promoted with little spend.
SCFC strategy I assume is to recruit UK players presumably from where the manager knows which is League 1 and League 2. Jones has no knowledge of overseas league and his recruitment for Luton was almost 100% UK born players. Our recruitment team seemingly knw the square route of fuck all in finding decent players. To compound this we have DofF in name and presumably salary only.
I hope Jones succeeds but I think we are in for a long stay at this level.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 20, 2019 16:16:41 GMT
Norwich have gone down the overseas route with a manager and a good percentage of the team including a number of german players. I applaud such a bold strategy and it's ;ikely to get them promoted with little spend. SCFC strategy I assume is to recruit UK players presumably from where the manager knows which is League 1 and League 2. Jones has no knowledge of overseas league and his recruitment for Luton was almost 100% UK born players. Our recruitment team seemingly knw the square route of fuck all in finding decent players. To compound this we have DofF in name and presumably salary only. I hope Jones succeeds but I think we are in for a long stay at this level. I think it’s a bit of a jump to suggest he has no knowledge of overseas leagues. We don’t actually know that do we? He’s played in Spain, is fluent in Spanish, his assistant is Spanish. He’s worked with managers like Oscar Garcia and Sammy Hyypia. It’s not outlandish to suggest he may have some contacts overseas is it? |
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Feb 20, 2019 16:29:35 GMT
Norwich have gone down the overseas route with a manager and a good percentage of the team including a number of german players. I applaud such a bold strategy and it's ;ikely to get them promoted with little spend. SCFC strategy I assume is to recruit UK players presumably from where the manager knows which is League 1 and League 2. Jones has no knowledge of overseas league and his recruitment for Luton was almost 100% UK born players. Our recruitment team seemingly knw the square route of fuck all in finding decent players. To compound this we have DofF in name and presumably salary only. I hope Jones succeeds but I think we are in for a long stay at this level. I think it’s a bit of a jump to suggest he has no knowledge of overseas leagues. We don’t actually know that do we? He’s played in Spain, is fluent in Spanish, his assistant is Spanish. He’s worked with managers like Oscar Garcia and Sammy Hyypia. It’s not outlandish to suggest he may have some contacts overseas is it? Rob, serious question, would you have gone down the NJ route? I guess fundamentally your options are: A.Young and promising, arguably both GR and NJ B.Experiened old guard, MON, Sam, Pardew, Moyes etc. C.Big name no experience, Lampard, Scholes etc. D.Foreign, reputation built overseas |
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 20, 2019 16:38:25 GMT
We've paid 9m for another bloke that cant run to spearhead our attack to supplement 2 others that each cost 12m. They picked up a 20 goal striker on a free transfer. Good luck with doing a Norwich next season We're due a massive slice of luck, maybe we'll fluke a 20 goal striker too. |
|
|
|
Post by cousindupree on Feb 20, 2019 16:40:30 GMT
Norwich have gone down the overseas route with a manager and a good percentage of the team including a number of german players. I applaud such a bold strategy and it's ;ikely to get them promoted with little spend. SCFC strategy I assume is to recruit UK players presumably from where the manager knows which is League 1 and League 2. Jones has no knowledge of overseas league and his recruitment for Luton was almost 100% UK born players. Our recruitment team seemingly knw the square route of fuck all in finding decent players. To compound this we have DofF in name and presumably salary only. I hope Jones succeeds but I think we are in for a long stay at this level. I think it’s a bit of a jump to suggest he has no knowledge of overseas leagues. We don’t actually know that do we? He’s played in Spain, is fluent in Spanish, his assistant is Spanish. He’s worked with managers like Oscar Garcia and Sammy Hyypia. It’s not outlandish to suggest he may have some contacts overseas is it? Maybe a bit harsh from me but I don't believe he made any signings from Spain for Luton. They were almost 100% UK |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 20, 2019 16:41:36 GMT
I think it’s a bit of a jump to suggest he has no knowledge of overseas leagues. We don’t actually know that do we? He’s played in Spain, is fluent in Spanish, his assistant is Spanish. He’s worked with managers like Oscar Garcia and Sammy Hyypia. It’s not outlandish to suggest he may have some contacts overseas is it? Rob, serious question, would you have gone down the NJ route? I guess fundamentally your option are: A.Young and promising, arguably both GR and NJ B.Experiened old guard, MON, Sam, Pardew, Moyes etc. C.Big name no experience, Lampard, Scholes etc. D.Foreign, reputation built elsewhere Pre-season, definitely. I’d wanted for a while for us to make the kind of bold, up and coming appointment that some of our peers make with some fresh ideas, targeting hungry players on the up. A project, a bit of vision, rather than one of the usual merry go round dwellers. I knew nothing about Jones but someone of that ilk, be they British or overseas based, was exactly what I was hoping for. I had/have reservations about appointing someone so inexperienced mid-season with this shower. It’d be a tough job for a seasoned manager, parachuting into this shit soufflé and you wonder if there’s an element of ‘show us yer medals’ within the squad. At the time, I was in favour of a Moyes or someone to just steer us through rough seas. Dour maybe but he couldn’t have been more so than Rowett and he’d at least be more competent. This is an exciting gamble though and timing questions aside I’m all in on it. |
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Feb 20, 2019 16:43:52 GMT
I'm still sceptical Moyes would have been remotely interested.
Big Sam definitely not.
Jokanovic said no.
MON would've gone down like a cup of sick.
So who was out there as a relatively popular alternative?
From that perspective, someone new like Jones is as good as anything.
And still very well might be successful once he's got his feet under the table!
|
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Feb 20, 2019 16:53:17 GMT
Rob, serious question, would you have gone down the NJ route? I guess fundamentally your option are: A.Young and promising, arguably both GR and NJ B.Experiened old guard, MON, Sam, Pardew, Moyes etc. C.Big name no experience, Lampard, Scholes etc. D.Foreign, reputation built elsewhere Pre-season, definitely. I’d wanted for a while for us to make the kind of bold, up and coming appointment that some of our peers make with some fresh ideas, targeting hungry players on the up. A project, a bit of vision, rather than one of the usual merry go round dwellers. I knew nothing about Jones but someone of that ilk, be they British or overseas based, was exactly what I was hoping for. I had/have reservations about appointing someone so inexperienced mid-season with this shower. It’d be a tough job for a seasoned manager, parachuting into this shit soufflé and you wonder if there’s an element of ‘show us yer medals’ within the squad. At the time, I was in favour of a Moyes or someone to just steer us through rough seas. Dour maybe but he couldn’t have been more so than Rowett and he’d at least be more competent. This is an exciting gamble though and timing questions aside I’m all in on it. Yes. I'll tell you what I suppose may be the biggest challenge for an NJ type manager in player recruitment in the summer. Say for example you are trying to attract a young loan player from a Top 6 club or a fading Prem level pro but you are up against stiff competition from other Championship clubs. Would those players be more easily seduced by a Frank Lampard or indeed a known manager and top class former player like Martin O'Neill or Steve Bruce telling them they will make you famous rather than an NJ with his crazy diamond and diet of blood, sweat and tears? |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 20, 2019 16:53:40 GMT
I think it’s a bit of a jump to suggest he has no knowledge of overseas leagues. We don’t actually know that do we? He’s played in Spain, is fluent in Spanish, his assistant is Spanish. He’s worked with managers like Oscar Garcia and Sammy Hyypia. It’s not outlandish to suggest he may have some contacts overseas is it? Maybe a bit harsh from me but I don't believe he made any signings from Spain for Luton. They were almost 100% UK Maybe the contacts he had/has didn’t fancy playing in League 2, which historically beyond a few exceptions isn’t exactly a hotbed of Tiki Taka? |
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Feb 20, 2019 16:58:01 GMT
Pre-season, definitely. I’d wanted for a while for us to make the kind of bold, up and coming appointment that some of our peers make with some fresh ideas, targeting hungry players on the up. A project, a bit of vision, rather than one of the usual merry go round dwellers. I knew nothing about Jones but someone of that ilk, be they British or overseas based, was exactly what I was hoping for. I had/have reservations about appointing someone so inexperienced mid-season with this shower. It’d be a tough job for a seasoned manager, parachuting into this shit soufflé and you wonder if there’s an element of ‘show us yer medals’ within the squad. At the time, I was in favour of a Moyes or someone to just steer us through rough seas. Dour maybe but he couldn’t have been more so than Rowett and he’d at least be more competent. This is an exciting gamble though and timing questions aside I’m all in on it. Yes. I'll tell you what I suppose may be the biggest challenge for an NJ type manager in player recruitment in the summer. Say for example you are trying to attract a young loan player from a Top 6 club or a fading Prem level pro but you are up against stiff competition from other Championship clubs. Would those players be more easily seduced by a Frank Lampard or indeed a known manager like Martin O'Neill or Steve Bruce telling them they will make you famous rather than an NJ with his crazy diamond and diet of blood, sweat and tears? We've not exactly had a problem doing that....and look where we are. |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 20, 2019 17:11:02 GMT
Pre-season, definitely. I’d wanted for a while for us to make the kind of bold, up and coming appointment that some of our peers make with some fresh ideas, targeting hungry players on the up. A project, a bit of vision, rather than one of the usual merry go round dwellers. I knew nothing about Jones but someone of that ilk, be they British or overseas based, was exactly what I was hoping for. I had/have reservations about appointing someone so inexperienced mid-season with this shower. It’d be a tough job for a seasoned manager, parachuting into this shit soufflé and you wonder if there’s an element of ‘show us yer medals’ within the squad. At the time, I was in favour of a Moyes or someone to just steer us through rough seas. Dour maybe but he couldn’t have been more so than Rowett and he’d at least be more competent. This is an exciting gamble though and timing questions aside I’m all in on it. Yes. I'll tell you what I suppose may be the biggest challenge for an NJ type manager in player recruitment in the summer. Say for example you are trying to attract a young loan player from a Top 6 club or a fading Prem level pro but you are up against stiff competition from other Championship clubs. Would those players be more easily seduced by a Frank Lampard or indeed a Martin O'Neill telling them they will make you famous than an NJ with his crazy diamond and diet of blood, sweat and tears? I can’t see anyone being seduced by the chance to play for Martin O’Neill in 2019 Gods. Also the diamond has been a pretty standard football formation for decades, not sure why we’re pretending it’s some sort of voodoo. We’ll still in the summer just about be a pull as a big-ish, well backed club expected to mount a challenge despite this season. That, and some of the names still at the club, and hopefully the vision of a club at least aspiring to play some fast, energetic football will be a pull? If a club like Bristol City can attract a Tammy Abraham as they did a couple of years back then we shouldn’t have much trouble. |
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Feb 20, 2019 17:19:12 GMT
Yes. I'll tell you what I suppose may be the biggest challenge for an NJ type manager in player recruitment in the summer. Say for example you are trying to attract a young loan player from a Top 6 club or a fading Prem level pro but you are up against stiff competition from other Championship clubs. Would those players be more easily seduced by a Frank Lampard or indeed a Martin O'Neill telling them they will make you famous than an NJ with his crazy diamond and diet of blood, sweat and tears? I can’t see anyone being seduced by the chance to play for Martin O’Neill in 2019 Gods. Also the diamond has been a pretty standard football formation for decades, not sure why we’re pretending it’s some sort of voodoo. We’ll still in the summer just about be a pull as a big-ish, well backed club expected to mount a challenge despite this season. That, and some of the names still at the club, and hopefully the vision of a club at least aspiring to play some fast, energetic football will be a pull? If a club like Bristol City can attract a Tammy Abraham as they did a couple of years back then we shouldn’t have much trouble. Fair enough, I reckon an aspiring teenage loanee from say Man City might favour Frank's Derby. As for MON, you may be underestimating him, the kids will have seen his World Cup punditry and he has the charm of the blarney stone! |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 20, 2019 17:20:43 GMT
I can’t see anyone being seduced by the chance to play for Martin O’Neill in 2019 Gods. Also the diamond has been a pretty standard football formation for decades, not sure why we’re pretending it’s some sort of voodoo. We’ll still in the summer just about be a pull as a big-ish, well backed club expected to mount a challenge despite this season. That, and some of the names still at the club, and hopefully the vision of a club at least aspiring to play some fast, energetic football will be a pull? If a club like Bristol City can attract a Tammy Abraham as they did a couple of years back then we shouldn’t have much trouble. Fair enough, I reckon an aspiring teenage loanee from say Man City might favour Frank's Derby. As for MON, you may be underestimating him, the kids will have seen his World Cup punditry and he has the charm of the blarney stone! It's not all about the flash loanees from above us though, hopefully we're finally looking at up and comers from League 1 or some of the smaller clubs at this level. |
|
|
|
Post by rickyfullerbeer on Feb 20, 2019 19:32:12 GMT
A superb video explaining why Norwich are where they are. Key Points: Norwich recruit former Huddersfield sporting director Stuart Webber to oversee scouting, Webber is an expert on 2nd-4th tier German football and the youth teams that play in those leagues. Webber and Farke work closely together and to a philosophy of open minded transfer business from the continent, coupled with academy development. A very common model in Germany. Webber and Farke completely revamp Norwich's academy development program, eliminating criteria holding back some players from breaking into the first team. Norwich have a 50 million net profit from transfers in the last two years. Bringing in mainly foreign players from Germany and encouraging players to come from the youth side. A host of free transfers, statistically analysed by Webber's team. Farke's 4-3-2-1 struggled to establish itself in his first season, leading to disappointing results and a lower mid-table finish. But his confidence to stick with the formation has this season paid dividends. The 4-3-2-1 will switch to a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 without the ball. Full backs will also tuck in to centreback to cover for their opposite number up the pitch. But more often than not, will make efforts to regain possession as high up the pitch as possible. Against teams that set up to shithouse, they will play a patient passing game, with the centre back bringing the ball out before overloading the middle of the pitch to free up wide overlaps and then drive into the space created. What's interesting is that it took Farke two seasons to implement this system, signing players who many won't have heard of and certainly haven't been anywhere near the premier league. I feel what this does is point out our own inadequacies both in recruitment, the apparent ivory tower in which our transfer team seem to operate and just how much Jones squad does not currently fit his style of play. Let us hope that this time next year Jones gets his own video on this channel. What is for certain, is that this emphasises just how crucial the transfer team is..... Farke was interested in the role of Technical Director but took his coaching badges to further his understanding of the role of coach. I wouldn't back Farto to get his boy scout badges! As always, the first message to take from the video is...it takes time. Be patient. |
|
|
|
Post by FrankButcher on Feb 20, 2019 19:43:21 GMT
Fair enough, I reckon an aspiring teenage loanee from say Man City might favour Frank's Derby. As for MON, you may be underestimating him, the kids will have seen his World Cup punditry and he has the charm of the blarney stone! It's not all about the flash loanees from above us though, hopefully we're finally looking at up and comers from League 1 or some of the smaller clubs at this level. Worked well for Ipswich didn't it going for up and coming league one/ league two players with an up and coming manager an example of how it can go horribly wrong. |
|
