|
Post by Absolution on Feb 14, 2019 9:24:51 GMT
Pulis has had 14 months to take a solid, good to go Middlesbrough from 7th place to the giddy heights of 6th, with the majority of their supporters wanting rid because of the turgid football.
He relegated West Brom in exactly the same way that Hughes relegated us, with the majority of their supporters wanting rid because of the turgid football.
He'd have done the same at Stoke if the board hadn't acted in a timely manner for once, getting rid while the supporters were leaving in droves because of the turgid football.
He's not the answer. He's not even the question. Let it go and stop re-writing history FFS.
|
|
|
Post by silverdollar on Feb 14, 2019 9:25:58 GMT
Poor manager not good for this league.. The first three comments in this thread are absolutely diabolical. All three of you need to get to grips with your disappointment. Nathan Jones has come into this club and done very well with the cards he has been dealt. The signing of Batth and Vokes is making a big difference. The glaring problems that we have stem from terrible recruitment. As if we don't have enough problems with Wimmer and others hidden away, we now have Afobe and Woods who are failing to impress. Ince flatters to deceive and McClean will run through a brick wall for you but has very little quality. This is what Jones has to work with! Get Real!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 9:27:38 GMT
Tony Pulis didn't turn round Stoke's fortunes immediately though did he? He lost 6 of his first nine games, and won just two of his first 16 games, culminating with a 0-2 defeat at Grimsby and a 0-6 defeat at Nottingham Forest. Yeah, not much turning around going on. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002–03_Stoke_City_F.C._season2-4 Walsall 1-2 Grimsby 0-3 Portsmouth 0-1 Millwall 1-1 Gillingham 1-2 Coventry 1-1 Portsmouh 1-1 Wimbledon 2-4 Bradford Don't forget his 2nd spell either mate, 1 win in 11: 0-1 Southend 2-0 Derby County 0-0 Birmingham City 2-2 Luton Town 1-1 Plymouth Argyle 2-2 Barnsley 1-2 Darlington (League Cup) 1-1 Sheff Wed 0-1 Burnley 0-2 Wolves 1-1 Preston
|
|
|
Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Feb 14, 2019 9:30:04 GMT
Tony Pulis didn't turn round Stoke's fortunes immediately though did he? He lost 6 of his first nine games, and won just two of his first 16 games, culminating with a 0-2 defeat at Grimsby and a 0-6 defeat at Nottingham Forest. Yeah, not much turning around going on. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002–03_Stoke_City_F.C._season2-4 Walsall 1-2 Grimsby 0-3 Portsmouth 0-1 Millwall 1-1 Gillingham 1-2 Coventry 1-1 Portsmouh 1-1 Wimbledon 2-4 Bradford To be fair Bradford, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wimbledon all massive clubs with Premiership experience!
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 14, 2019 9:38:52 GMT
The tables have certainly turned haven't they? It's now the most esteemed and prominent members of the wankstain community telling us that goals don't matter! We have to stick with Jones, we have no choice but lets not pretend its anything other than utter, utter dogshit. You still bitter about only being 50 percent right about Pulis momo? Let it go old son. Those sorts of negative emotions always turn inwards. While you're here though, who has said goals don't matter? This Pulis thing is utter cock rot. I haven't even thought about the bloke in all of this. There was no excuse for the shite Rowett churned out and there's no excuse for the utter shite Jones is churning out. I just find it amusing that it is the prominent wankstain community who are now happy to see us score no goals in four games on the bounce, score three goals in nine and fail to score in seven of those nine games and then somehow try and tie it into Pulis! There is certainly an obsession going on in some quarters!
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 14, 2019 9:39:27 GMT
People say the right things to begin with like, "It'll get worse before it gets better" but when that actually happens, people don't like it and want him out. Literally no manager would get anything out of our midfield. I think you have hit on the problem, right there. They don't create many chances for the strikers, don't chip in with many goals, and don't protect the defence very well. Somebody mentioned an old Stoke midfield on the Mickey Thomas thread recently ; Thomas, Mcllroy, Bracewell and Chamberlain. You could see what they brought to the table; the balance of attributes was there. I think midfield is key in the next transfer window, and actually was in the last one. The other pressing concerns overshadowed our completely underperforming and underwhelming midfielders.
|
|
|
Post by realstokebloke on Feb 14, 2019 9:39:28 GMT
No point whatsoever in sugar coating this.
So far it has been dire.
(And, arguably, he hasn't helped himself or the prevailing mood by telling us in public at least that it hasn't.)
Sure, the footballing gods might have smiled down on us and it might have gone the other way and the proverbial new manager bounce might have clocked up points a plenty.
But really, when you think about it, back here on earth and not up on cloud cuckcoo where some seem to be, nobody should reasonably have expected that here; he stated from day 1 he wanted a new playing style which takes time and our players are largely unsuited to and although he couldn't state it (but virtually everyone else concedes and stated it ad infinitum on here) we had one of the poorest and most unbalanced squads in years.
Meaning any other expectation was and is delusional.
It might yet get worse too; but we have to back him and have faith that the board do too.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 14, 2019 9:40:26 GMT
Don't forget his 2nd spell either mate, 1 win in 11: 0-1 Southend 2-0 Derby County 0-0 Birmingham City 2-2 Luton Town 1-1 Plymouth Argyle 2-2 Barnsley 1-2 Darlington (League Cup) 1-1 Sheff Wed 0-1 Burnley 0-2 Wolves 1-1 Preston For the Pulis obsessives on here. How much more is this team worth than the one in either of Pulis's spells? 50 times, 75 times, 150 times?
|
|
|
Post by greyman on Feb 14, 2019 9:45:03 GMT
You still bitter about only being 50 percent right about Pulis momo? Let it go old son. Those sorts of negative emotions always turn inwards. While you're here though, who has said goals don't matter? This Pulis thing is utter cock rot. I haven't even thought about the bloke in all of this. There was no excuse for the shite Rowett churned out and there's no excuse for the utter shite Jones is churning out. I just find it amusing that it is the prominent wankstain community who are now happy to see us score no goals in four games on the bounce, score three goals in nine and fail to score in seven of those nine games and then somehow try and tie it into Pulis! There is certainly an obsession going on in some quarters! Nobody is raising Pulis except for those who judge every manager against him, including by inventing their own facts and people like you and the whole boring 'wankstain/Pulista' thing. And in fact you've just done it yet again. If we can agree on one thing it is that we need to judge Nathan Jones on his own terms and over a period of time. That might include judging him on the same 'utter shite' he is churning out, notice that it's the same shite as all our other recent managers and conclude that the problems run much deeper than the bloke in the dugout. I bet we agree on that too.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 9:47:01 GMT
More impotantly like he did at Stoke and got us 10 years at the top table so YOU move on! Tony Pulis didn't turn round Stoke's fortunes immediately though did he? He lost 6 of his first nine games, and won just two of his first 16 games, culminating in a 0-2 defeat at Grimsby and a 0-6 defeat at Nottingham Forest. Don’t let facts get in the way of people talking shit.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Feb 14, 2019 9:47:19 GMT
I don't understand why so many people on this thread are so excepting of things getting worse. Why can't we have a manager who improves things for once instead? Other teams are allowed that, the much vaunted new manager bounce.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some improvement from better team selection, coaching, tactics and motivation.
Particularly since it was the same people saying Rowett had all the above wrong.
Then hopefilly some further improvement as the manager gradually assembles his own players over a few seasons.
Although on the above point if Vokes is any longer a £9m striker I'm a China man.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Feb 14, 2019 9:48:51 GMT
You still bitter about only being 50 percent right about Pulis momo? Let it go old son. Those sorts of negative emotions always turn inwards. While you're here though, who has said goals don't matter? This Pulis thing is utter cock rot. I haven't even thought about the bloke in all of this. There was no excuse for the shite Rowett churned out and there's no excuse for the utter shite Jones is churning out. I just find it amusing that it is the prominent wankstain community who are now happy to see us score no goals in four games on the bounce, score three goals in nine and fail to score in seven of those nine games and then somehow try and tie it into Pulis! There is certainly an obsession going on in some quarters! You're correct on all of that and it's source.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 14, 2019 9:49:15 GMT
This Pulis thing is utter cock rot. I haven't even thought about the bloke in all of this. There was no excuse for the shite Rowett churned out and there's no excuse for the utter shite Jones is churning out. I just find it amusing that it is the prominent wankstain community who are now happy to see us score no goals in four games on the bounce, score three goals in nine and fail to score in seven of those nine games and then somehow try and tie it into Pulis! There is certainly an obsession going on in some quarters! Nobody is raising Pulis except for those who judge every manager against him, including by inventing their own facts and people like you and the whole boring 'wankstain/Pulista' thing. And in fact you've just done it yet again. If we can agree on one thing it is that we need to judge Nathan Jones on his own terms and over a period of time. That might include judging him on the same 'utter shite' he is churning out, notice that it's the same shite as all our other recent managers and conclude that the problems run much deeper than the bloke in the dugout. I bet we agree on that too. You're the only bloke I've seen bring the fucker up in months! It's you who is frigging obsessed! Yes we do agree but this board is chock full of Scholes & Cartwright apologists as well so fuck knows where that leaves us?!
|
|
|
Post by greyman on Feb 14, 2019 9:49:49 GMT
I don't understand why so many people on this thread are so excepting of things getting worse. Why can't we have a manager who improves things for once instead? Other teams are allowed that, the much vaunted new manager bounce. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some improvement from better team selection, coaching, tactics and motivation. Particularly since it was the same people saying Rowett had all the above wrong. Then hopefilly some further improvement as the manager gradually assembles his own players over a few seasons. Although on the above point if Vokes is any longer a £9m striker I'm a China man. Why don't you wait and see what happens then? Give the bloke a chance for Christs's sake instead of demanding his head before his seat is even warm.
|
|
|
Post by greyman on Feb 14, 2019 9:52:59 GMT
Nobody is raising Pulis except for those who judge every manager against him, including by inventing their own facts and people like you and the whole boring 'wankstain/Pulista' thing. And in fact you've just done it yet again. If we can agree on one thing it is that we need to judge Nathan Jones on his own terms and over a period of time. That might include judging him on the same 'utter shite' he is churning out, notice that it's the same shite as all our other recent managers and conclude that the problems run much deeper than the bloke in the dugout. I bet we agree on that too. You're the only bloke I've seen bring the fucker up in months! It's you who is frigging obsessed! Yes we do agree but this board is chock full of Scholes & Cartwright apologists as well so fuck knows where that leaves us?! I've just read back on this thread and who was it who first raised the whole 'Pulis Hating Wankstain' thing? That'll be you. So in fact you brought it up. You did. Hope that's clear. But then again, I can prove anything with facts. Here's another one. You say you've not heard anybody mention Pulis for months. So guess what when you search on his name on here. I even checked how often you mention him, and it's quite a lot but I won't embarrass you with the results of that search. Attachment DeletedPS. You still haven't answered my question about who said 'goals don't matter'. Should be easy enough to answer seeing as you brought that up as well as the subject of Pulis.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 9:55:26 GMT
Poor manager not good for this league.. The first three comments in this thread are absolutely diabolical. All three of you need to get to grips with your disappointment. Nathan Jones has come into this club and done very well with the cards he has been dealt. The signing of Batth and Vokes is making a big difference. The glaring problems that we have stem from terrible recruitment. As if we don't have enough problems with Wimmer and others hidden away, we now have Afobe and Woods who are failing to impress. Ince flatters to deceive and McClean will run through a brick wall for you but has very little quality. This is what Jones has to work with! Get Real! That's utter tosh. How has he done well with the cards he's been dealt when performances have generally been as bad as any under Rowett and results have been worse ? Now it's all very well saying in the long term Jones will turn it round....he may,he may not,none of us have crystal balls....but up to now it's clear it's not going as he expected and as we'd hoped
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on Feb 14, 2019 9:56:52 GMT
We are where we are because the previous manager put together the 17th best team in the Championship. Jones is working with that same team.
Working on the footing that we are no good and that I barely expect us to win again this season, it's heartening to see some bits of improvement every week. Against West Brom, we had clearly worked to prevent more stupid counter attack goals, helped by the presence of Ryan Woods. Last night, we showed evidence of working on playing out of tight situations and building our own counters. We were also much fitter and ended the game on top. Yes it's Wigan, but under Rowett they managed to roll us over and beat us 3-0.
These are all little baby steps and we should expect better, but that's not the fault of the current manager. He is working with what he's got. This squad may have cost £60,000,000 to assemble, but that wasn't his call. The actual value of all of our players is probably less than a third of that.
The biggest problem is that we can't score to save our lives, but that can't be remedied by anything other than doing major surgery in the summer.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 14, 2019 10:00:23 GMT
You're the only bloke I've seen bring the fucker up in months! It's you who is frigging obsessed! Yes we do agree but this board is chock full of Scholes & Cartwright apologists as well so fuck knows where that leaves us?! I've just read back on this thread and who was it who first raised the whole 'Pulis Hating Wankstain' thing? That'll be you. So in fact you brought it up. You did. Hope that's clear. But then again, I can prove anything with facts. PS. You still haven't answered my question about who said 'goals don't matter'. Should be easy enough to answer seeing as you brought that up as well as the subject of Pulis. My God! I've seen some history re-writes but never in this short space of time! It was you, YOU, who brought up Pulis with some weird obsessive association between people who are a bit pissed off with Jones shot shy bollocks and Pulis. Any subsequent Pulis discussion has been prompted by that and only that!
|
|
|
Post by mrred on Feb 14, 2019 10:00:44 GMT
Don't agree at all, its the usual short sighted insta results attitude. He has inherited a toxic mess and a club in serious decline. Its like expecting a new captain to jump aboard the titanic after hitting the iceberg and to be back on route sipping G&T's in no time. It takes a long time to turn around a ship heading in the wrong direction, it equally will take time to turn around a club with a hopelessly unbalanced squad bought by others, that's used to second best. NJ started with Luton in 18th in L2 and now that club is unrecognisable, he's inherited a shambles without a pre season and has so far had the chance to add just 2 players. Of course vent your anger and call for his head if you must, but what really do you think will be different with a new man and all the same players? Stoke will be safe this year, roll on the end of the season, and the pre season. By the end of this calendar year, I'm actually confident things will be very different. You cannot change years of mess in a few weeks. Its frustrating but even talk of firing NJ is in no way constructive and fails to grasp the bigger picture which wont ever change with such short sighted-ness. Absolutely blinding post. I've said it before but if it were up to some clowns on here, we'd be 1 more manager away from a Simon Grayson or Paul Jewell. We've got a young, hungry manager that's willing to put everything into this. I can't add anything else to your post, it says it all.
|
|
|
Post by greyman on Feb 14, 2019 10:01:07 GMT
I've just read back on this thread and who was it who first raised the whole 'Pulis Hating Wankstain' thing? That'll be you. So in fact you brought it up. You did. Hope that's clear. But then again, I can prove anything with facts. PS. You still haven't answered my question about who said 'goals don't matter'. Should be easy enough to answer seeing as you brought that up as well as the subject of Pulis. My God! I've seen some history re-writes but never in this short space of time! It was you, YOU, who brought up Pulis with some weird obsessive association between people who are a bit pissed off with Jones shot shy bollocks and Pulis. Any subsequent Pulis discussion has been prompted by that and only that! Check again. And answer the question.
|
|
|
Post by tony1234 on Feb 14, 2019 10:01:41 GMT
NJ was intelligent enough to create a very effective system at Luton with the players he had Now he inherits a different situation and its a question of how quickly and intelligently he learns the fact that either a) he needs a different system because his Luton diamond won't work or b) there are very clear reasons that his players have not yet effectively implemented it, which he can take action on to correct.
If he does that thing of trying the same same thing but expecting different results, i don't care if hes been in the job 5 mins or 5 years, that is not the trait of a manager that is up to it and needs to go ASAP.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 14, 2019 10:03:56 GMT
My God! I've seen some history re-writes but never in this short space of time! It was you, YOU, who brought up Pulis with some weird obsessive association between people who are a bit pissed off with Jones shot shy bollocks and Pulis. Any subsequent Pulis discussion has been prompted by that and only that! Check again. OK it was Daftbugger first then you chipped in with this absolutely fabricated nonsense "Discussing with my son this morning. It is really apparent how much of this has to do with Pulis still for some people. They'll never let it go. They're not the Taliban. They're Hiroo Onoda. " Utter diversionary steaming bullshit!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 10:04:56 GMT
NJ was intelligent enough to create a very effective system at Luton with the players he had Now he inherits a different situation and its a question of how quickly and intelligently he learns the fact that either a) he needs a different system because his Luton diamond won't work or b) there are very clear reasons that his players have not yet effectively implemented it, which he can take action on to correct. If he does that thing of trying the same same thing but expecting different results, i don't care if hes been in the job 5 mins or 5 years, that is not the trait of a manager that is up to it and needs to go ASAP. I agree but I think by changing the system as early as he did last night he has realised it's not going to work in the short term....at least that's what I hope
|
|
|
Post by greyman on Feb 14, 2019 10:08:19 GMT
OK it was Daftbugger first then you chipped in with this absolutely fabricated nonsense "Discussing with my son this morning. It is really apparent how much of this has to do with Pulis still for some people. They'll never let it go. They're not the Taliban. They're Hiroo Onoda. " Utter diversionary steaming bullshit! Which I said AFTER you'd brought Pulis into it with the tedious Pulista / Wankstain thing. Anyway go take one of your HRT pills and come back with an answer to the question of who said 'goals don't matter'.
|
|
|
Post by SCFC92 on Feb 14, 2019 10:10:41 GMT
I'm glad some of you do not represent the fans in the stand who were chanting his name yesterday.
The bloke deserves time, and our disaster of a squad needs patience. Keep the toys in the pram and be patient.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 10:13:19 GMT
NJ was intelligent enough to create a very effective system at Luton with the players he had Now he inherits a different situation and its a question of how quickly and intelligently he learns the fact that either a) he needs a different system because his Luton diamond won't work or b) there are very clear reasons that his players have not yet effectively implemented it, which he can take action on to correct. If he does that thing of trying the same same thing but expecting different results, i don't care if hes been in the job 5 mins or 5 years, that is not the trait of a manager that is up to it and needs to go ASAP. So he gets whinged at if he sticks to his diamond and he gets whinged at if he changes his diamond? We've been awful all season but he doesn't know what he's doing if we don't miraculously and from nowhere start getting instant results? Jesus wept...
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 14, 2019 10:13:32 GMT
OK it was Daftbugger first then you chipped in with this absolutely fabricated nonsense "Discussing with my son this morning. It is really apparent how much of this has to do with Pulis still for some people. They'll never let it go. They're not the Taliban. They're Hiroo Onoda. " Utter diversionary steaming bullshit! Which I said AFTER you'd brought Pulis into it with the tedious Pulista / Wankstain thing. Anyway go take one of your HRT pills and come back with an answer to the question of who said 'goals don't matter'. Fuck me it's like arguing with a six year old. If you really believe this is about Pulis, which you clearly do, I fear for your mental fortitude. It amuses me that you travelled to Belgium to suck fat Dutch todger because you found shot shy Pulisball shit and now you're defending shot shy shit to the hilt and somehow still blaming Pulis for it! It' a work of genius really!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 10:15:17 GMT
The first three comments in this thread are absolutely diabolical. All three of you need to get to grips with your disappointment. Nathan Jones has come into this club and done very well with the cards he has been dealt. The signing of Batth and Vokes is making a big difference. The glaring problems that we have stem from terrible recruitment. As if we don't have enough problems with Wimmer and others hidden away, we now have Afobe and Woods who are failing to impress. Ince flatters to deceive and McClean will run through a brick wall for you but has very little quality. This is what Jones has to work with! Get Real! That's utter tosh. How has he done well with the cards he's been dealt when performances have generally been as bad as any under Rowett and results have been worse ? Now it's all very well saying in the long term Jones will turn it round....he may,he may not,none of us have crystal balls....but up to now it's clear it's not going as he expected and as we'd hoped As bad as under Rowett? So drawing last night and at least looking basically competent in that 2nd half was worse than that utterly embarrassing 3-0 thrashing at home to Wigan was it?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 10:18:43 GMT
That's utter tosh. How has he done well with the cards he's been dealt when performances have generally been as bad as any under Rowett and results have been worse ? Now it's all very well saying in the long term Jones will turn it round....he may,he may not,none of us have crystal balls....but up to now it's clear it's not going as he expected and as we'd hoped As bad as under Rowett? So drawing last night and at least looking basically competent in that 2nd half was worse than that utterly embarrassing 3-0 thrashing at home to Wigan was it? How ridiculous to compare 1 game.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 10:19:25 GMT
Don't forget his 2nd spell either mate, 1 win in 11: 0-1 Southend 2-0 Derby County 0-0 Birmingham City 2-2 Luton Town 1-1 Plymouth Argyle 2-2 Barnsley 1-2 Darlington (League Cup) 1-1 Sheff Wed 0-1 Burnley 0-2 Wolves 1-1 Preston For the Pulis obsessives on here. How much more is this team worth than the one in either of Pulis's spells? 50 times, 75 times, 150 times? You're always very touchy when it comes to Pulis, I was simply highlighting the fact that things often take time. If you'd prefer you could use Hughes with 2 wins in his first 11 games, or Waddington with 0 wins in his first 6 games.....
|
|