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Post by werrington on Feb 12, 2019 7:26:58 GMT
I said NJ was a massive gamble from the off. It isn't working out and the gamble has failed As long as he’s still in the game he’s like a brick hanging on our neck and dragging us down with people unable to move on You know who I’m talking about and all this nonsense will only end when he retires
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Post by Absolution on Feb 12, 2019 7:34:44 GMT
I said NJ was a massive gamble from the off. It isn't working out and the gamble has failed As long as he’s still in the game he’s like a brick hanging on our neck and dragging us down with people unable to move on You know who I’m talking about and all this nonsense will only end when he retires You mean the guy who didn't win any of his first nine games with us, and won just two of his first 16?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Feb 12, 2019 7:41:53 GMT
You should be having the 'get a grip' talk with the players and staff.
There are still good attendances despite this mind blowing freefall the club are in.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 8:48:22 GMT
Some of you lot need to get a fucking grip. Today was not a great performance but we deserved at least a point from that. We bossed most of the second half but just could not create much. Lets not forget that the Baggies are fourth in the table and have the best frontline in the division. Yet according to the Oatcake it is the most diabolical performance ever? Of fucking course... Moaning and whinging every time the ball is passed backwards, booing every subpar performance and heaping loads of additional pressure on the players is just making the situation worse. The constant 'poor me' histrionics on here and on social media won't help the atmosphere much either. People keep talk about the club being 'toxic' but the most toxic thing about it right now is a large section of our fanbase. We called for Rowett to go, we called for a young manager who would play attacking football. We got our way and said we would give him time and be patient. Six games is not fucking patient. People writing him off already and comparing us to Sunderland are fucking idiots. I know some of you are very precious and entitled, I am anticipating you will all whine about how much you pay, how long you have supported the team, how much the players are paid and wah wah wah... but none of this is helping our situation. On the contrary, you are actively contributing to our demise. I am just as frustrated as the next person and yes the majority of the players have been relentlessly lame for a good couple of years now. However, if we are going to grind ourselves out of this shithole we need to stop crying so much and stick with the team a bit more. If it is too difficult for you to resist contributing to the constant negativity it is probably in everyone's best interests if you fuck off for a little bit. Support the team, nothing else matters Tit ! GD
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Post by Absolution on Feb 12, 2019 9:06:49 GMT
Some of you lot need to get a fucking grip. Today was not a great performance but we deserved at least a point from that. We bossed most of the second half but just could not create much. Lets not forget that the Baggies are fourth in the table and have the best frontline in the division. Yet according to the Oatcake it is the most diabolical performance ever? Of fucking course... Moaning and whinging every time the ball is passed backwards, booing every subpar performance and heaping loads of additional pressure on the players is just making the situation worse. The constant 'poor me' histrionics on here and on social media won't help the atmosphere much either. People keep talk about the club being 'toxic' but the most toxic thing about it right now is a large section of our fanbase. We called for Rowett to go, we called for a young manager who would play attacking football. We got our way and said we would give him time and be patient. Six games is not fucking patient. People writing him off already and comparing us to Sunderland are fucking idiots. I know some of you are very precious and entitled, I am anticipating you will all whine about how much you pay, how long you have supported the team, how much the players are paid and wah wah wah... but none of this is helping our situation. On the contrary, you are actively contributing to our demise. I am just as frustrated as the next person and yes the majority of the players have been relentlessly lame for a good couple of years now. However, if we are going to grind ourselves out of this shithole we need to stop crying so much and stick with the team a bit more. If it is too difficult for you to resist contributing to the constant negativity it is probably in everyone's best interests if you fuck off for a little bit. Support the team, nothing else matters Tit ! GD "You should get behind your team like these away supporters." <Points at Huddersfield supporters and waives goodbye to career>
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 12, 2019 9:49:52 GMT
So you think it has paid off then? Okay Pugwash. Don't get much right do you old bean lol More than you. He's been here 10 minutes you clown. Personally I'd have gone for Moyes but the club saw it differently so you have to give him time. Let him have a preseason and start letting him shape his squad. I will admit though that it hasn't been great so far and he has made some odd decisions but he's obviously experimenting. Calling him out after 6 games is pathetic. Pugs.....Bob on It’s interesting that you name Moyes, I was the same. On Friday night before the WBA game I used Moyes as an example in conversation. If I were one of the family and knowing that there were problems unde the GR reign which may lead to a change I would have considered a massive shake up. I would have tried my hardest to recruit a Technical Director of Football (Moyes?) who would (1) report to the family direct and (2) would be responsible for all things football related from 1st team through to the Ladies team and anything in between. He would be responsible for the recruitment of a Manager or 1st Coach. TS would be responsible for all things “non football” Perhaps draconian but IMHO there still remains core issues (can’t put a finger on it) behind the scenes which are adversely affecting what we do on the pitch
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Post by philm87 on Feb 12, 2019 22:07:12 GMT
I think we need to deal with this 'multi millionnaires' bollocks too. The players are massively, massively overpaid yes. That makes it that much easier to hate them. But ALL footballers are massively overpaid. The owners are even more massively overpaid. Last year, Denise Coates paid herself more than our entire fucking wage bill. It's called fucking capitalism. I don't particularly like it but unless you want some sort of revolution - and most of you clearly don't - stop fucking bitching about players' wages. Secondly, it might be hard to accept this when you have fuck all money (and trust me I know what that feels like) but having millions of pounds will not make you invincible. Millionaires or not they are still human. They still care about what people and fans think about them, they still feel shit when people shout 'you're shit' at them and they still hurt after a loss. Butland is a millionnaire, could easily leave us for a Premier League club, yet he was crying on the pitch when we were relegated. There are some wankers like Jese who genuinely do not give a shit about us, but most of them do. At the very least, they care about their own careers. I have said many times, just like someone on here did above, 'if I had 20,000 a week I wouldn't give a shit what people say about me' or 'if I was a professional footballer I would simply up my game if things were going against me' but that is bollocks. None of us know how to deal with that kind of pressure and scrutiny because none of us have ever or will ever face that situation. All we are doing is adding to that pressure. "Millionaire's or not they are still human." As are the fans Phil, as are the fans. By way of example ... On Saturday, as the players came out of the tunnel, the chap sitting next to me (working class, mid 50's) absolutely belted out, at the top of his voice "We'll Be With You" and then continued into "Delilah" with the same gusto, right to the very end, even though the vast majority of people in his immediate vicinity, sat or stood there in silence. Me? I stood up and gave them a bit of a clap as the players names were read out and then continued my conversation with my lad, I was pretty ambivalent to it all if I'm honest. Match started and then the same guy sitting next to me tried to get "Oh When The Reds" going, stood up chanting loud, gesturing to others to follow his lead ... I didn't join in, as didn't the vast majority sitting around us but HE kept going, for at least a good 15 minutes. I was pretty ambivalent about it all if I'm honest. Now what was clear here, is that this particular individual sitting next to me, had come to the match quite prepared to demonstrate to the players that he was there to support them right from the off, that support (at least initially) was unconditional, he would 'go first' on this particular transaction. It's called passion, he's a passionate football supporter, he goes to the game to BE passionate. But here's the rub, as the half went on, he began to start groaning as yet another back pass to Butland materialised, soon he began to start throwing his arms up as another pass was misplaced and then the verbals began ... "You could at least look like you even actually want to play for us Clucas" and so on and so on. He was thoroughly pissed off by half time and was letting the players know what he thought of their performance, I continued to sit there in silence, being pretty ambivalent to it all. But for him, it was called passion, he's a passionate football supporter, he goes to the game to BE passionate. And most of all, he too, is human. But YOU expect him to be super human, better than the professional athletes he has paid to watch? And whatever you think, he's most certainly not a massive part of the problem either Phil. Far from it. I really do sympathise but I have to disagree. There are two questions. Firstly, how did we get into this mess? We have all discussed this to death on here before and no the fans are not really part of the equation. That is distinct from a second more important question: Why are we now stuck in this rut, unable to move forward? The attitude and behaviour of the fans is definitely a significant contributing factor here. Supporting your team for the first 15 minutes of the game, then moaning and shouting abuse when it doesn't go according to plan, is shit support. It may be passionate. It may be justified. But it is shit support. The players will be used to this. They will know that we will sing a little bit for the first ten minutes, then bitch and moan and boo if they get things wrong, so the fact this guy is singing to begin with doesn't even help. Sitting there feeling sorry for yourself and being 'ambivalent' is also shit support. Again, maybe justifiable and entirely understandable but still shit support. Shit support carries over from one week to the next and is dragging us down. It is an additional weight around the neck of the players. Just put aside your passion and emotions for a moment, leave out questions as to what the players 'deserve' or whatever, and think about what we can do, as fans, to try and turn this club around. Whether our shit support is a massive part of the problem or whether it is a minor part, what have we got to lose by not being such whiny little mardarses for a few weeks?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 22:08:25 GMT
"Millionaire's or not they are still human." As are the fans Phil, as are the fans. By way of example ... On Saturday, as the players came out of the tunnel, the chap sitting next to me (working class, mid 50's) absolutely belted out, at the top of his voice "We'll Be With You" and then continued into "Delilah" with the same gusto, right to the very end, even though the vast majority of people in his immediate vicinity, sat or stood there in silence. Me? I stood up and gave them a bit of a clap as the players names were read out and then continued my conversation with my lad, I was pretty ambivalent to it all if I'm honest. Match started and then the same guy sitting next to me tried to get "Oh When The Reds" going, stood up chanting loud, gesturing to others to follow his lead ... I didn't join in, as didn't the vast majority sitting around us but HE kept going, for at least a good 15 minutes. I was pretty ambivalent about it all if I'm honest. Now what was clear here, is that this particular individual sitting next to me, had come to the match quite prepared to demonstrate to the players that he was there to support them right from the off, that support (at least initially) was unconditional, he would 'go first' on this particular transaction. It's called passion, he's a passionate football supporter, he goes to the game to BE passionate. But here's the rub, as the half went on, he began to start groaning as yet another back pass to Butland materialised, soon he began to start throwing his arms up as another pass was misplaced and then the verbals began ... "You could at least look like you even actually want to play for us Clucas" and so on and so on. He was thoroughly pissed off by half time and was letting the players know what he thought of their performance, I continued to sit there in silence, being pretty ambivalent to it all. But for him, it was called passion, he's a passionate football supporter, he goes to the game to BE passionate. And most of all, he too, is human. But YOU expect him to be super human, better than the professional athletes he has paid to watch? And whatever you think, he's most certainly not a massive part of the problem either Phil. Far from it. I really do sympathise but I have to disagree. There are two questions. Firstly, how did we get into this mess? We have all discussed this to death on here before and no the fans are not really part of the equation. That is distinct from a second more important question: Why are we now stuck in this rut, unable to move forward? The attitude and behaviour of the fans is definitely a significant contributing factor here. Supporting your team for the first 15 minutes of the game, then moaning and shouting abuse when it doesn't go according to plan, is shit support. It may be passionate. It may be justified. But it is shit support. The players will be used to this. They will know that we will sing a little bit for the first ten minutes, then bitch and moan and boo if they get things wrong, so the fact this guy is singing to begin with doesn't even help. Sitting there feeling sorry for yourself and being 'ambivalent' is also shit support. Again, maybe justifiable and entirely understandable but still shit support. Shit support carries over from one week to the next and is dragging us down. It is an additional weight around the neck of the players. Just put aside your passion and emotions for a moment, leave out questions as to what the players 'deserve' or whatever, and think about what we can do, as fans, to try and turn this club around. Whether our shit support is a massive part of the problem or whether it is a minor part, what have we got to lose by not being such whiny little mardarses for a few weeks? YES PHIL! Man the fuck up everyone! Please!
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Post by thehoof on Feb 12, 2019 22:28:59 GMT
Phil, what was the average gate of Wimbledon in their halcyon days- 8 or 9 thousand at most- yet they were able week after week to go toe to toe in the top league and win the Cup? Whenever they were on the rele you couldn’t hear anything from their fans-admittedly no booing but very little cheering- because the likes of Fashanu, Wise, Jones and SOT’s very own Robbie Earle played with pride in their performance and didn’t need to be molly coddled- and that is all we do by cheering lacklustre, non committed efforts from our 11. Most of our games are played in silence- yes there are boos when the back passes are made under no pressure or because of a “lack of confidence “.Look at Lolley at Forest and compare him to Ince- both talented players but only one plays like it means something to him? I believe you went to Hull- 80 minutes of unconditional support and cheering produced the normal performance- sideways, lack of urgency and the usual shocking defending- why couldn’t our team respond; they were not in the “toxic” atmosphere of the Brit? Rotherham managed to come back from 2 down, we concede the first goal and we know it’s all over. Booing isn’t the answer, but this lot need to generate something for the fans to get behind, rather than expecting to be applauded for endless capitulations. Tomorrow at Wigan we will be well supported and cheered on- let’s see if the players respond and win then there may be some truth in what you say- but if it’s another insipid display your argument loses a lot of validity.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 22:57:28 GMT
I said NJ was a massive gamble from the off. It isn't working out and the gamble has failed Comments like this is why the thread title is absolutely correct.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 12, 2019 23:22:57 GMT
"Millionaire's or not they are still human." As are the fans Phil, as are the fans. By way of example ... On Saturday, as the players came out of the tunnel, the chap sitting next to me (working class, mid 50's) absolutely belted out, at the top of his voice "We'll Be With You" and then continued into "Delilah" with the same gusto, right to the very end, even though the vast majority of people in his immediate vicinity, sat or stood there in silence. Me? I stood up and gave them a bit of a clap as the players names were read out and then continued my conversation with my lad, I was pretty ambivalent to it all if I'm honest. Match started and then the same guy sitting next to me tried to get "Oh When The Reds" going, stood up chanting loud, gesturing to others to follow his lead ... I didn't join in, as didn't the vast majority sitting around us but HE kept going, for at least a good 15 minutes. I was pretty ambivalent about it all if I'm honest. Now what was clear here, is that this particular individual sitting next to me, had come to the match quite prepared to demonstrate to the players that he was there to support them right from the off, that support (at least initially) was unconditional, he would 'go first' on this particular transaction. It's called passion, he's a passionate football supporter, he goes to the game to BE passionate. But here's the rub, as the half went on, he began to start groaning as yet another back pass to Butland materialised, soon he began to start throwing his arms up as another pass was misplaced and then the verbals began ... "You could at least look like you even actually want to play for us Clucas" and so on and so on. He was thoroughly pissed off by half time and was letting the players know what he thought of their performance, I continued to sit there in silence, being pretty ambivalent to it all. But for him, it was called passion, he's a passionate football supporter, he goes to the game to BE passionate. And most of all, he too, is human. But YOU expect him to be super human, better than the professional athletes he has paid to watch? And whatever you think, he's most certainly not a massive part of the problem either Phil. Far from it. I really do sympathise but I have to disagree. There are two questions. Firstly, how did we get into this mess? We have all discussed this to death on here before and no the fans are not really part of the equation. That is distinct from a second more important question: Why are we now stuck in this rut, unable to move forward? The attitude and behaviour of the fans is definitely a significant contributing factor here. Supporting your team for the first 15 minutes of the game, then moaning and shouting abuse when it doesn't go according to plan, is shit support. It may be passionate. It may be justified. But it is shit support. The players will be used to this. They will know that we will sing a little bit for the first ten minutes, then bitch and moan and boo if they get things wrong, so the fact this guy is singing to begin with doesn't even help. Sitting there feeling sorry for yourself and being 'ambivalent' is also shit support. Again, maybe justifiable and entirely understandable but still shit support. Shit support carries over from one week to the next and is dragging us down. It is an additional weight around the neck of the players. Just put aside your passion and emotions for a moment, leave out questions as to what the players 'deserve' or whatever, and think about what we can do, as fans, to try and turn this club around. Whether our shit support is a massive part of the problem or whether it is a minor part, what have we got to lose by not being such whiny little mardarses for a few weeks? Thanks for that Phil, I'll be sure to let him know that Phil from the Oatcake reckons that both of us are shit supporters. Nice one Phil. 🙄 And your argument completely falls to pieces when you realise that we've managed to muster just two away wins all season, despite incredible support at every match. Oh and for the record, I didn't say I felt sorry for myself at all but you crack on, putting words into other people's mouths.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 12, 2019 23:25:08 GMT
I'm really interested in what it is folks are expected to cheer. In the three games since Leeds we've had five attempts on goal two of which were missed penalties. So basically just one shot on target from open play in each of the past three games. Against Brentford we scored with our only shot on target. We haven't scored in our last three games and have scored only three league goals in eight games since Boxing Day, failing to convert in six of those eight games. Yeah, dead right. "It's the fucking fans"
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Post by ParaPsych on Feb 13, 2019 0:20:20 GMT
"Millionaire's or not they are still human." As are the fans Phil, as are the fans. By way of example ... On Saturday, as the players came out of the tunnel, the chap sitting next to me (working class, mid 50's) absolutely belted out, at the top of his voice "We'll Be With You" and then continued into "Delilah" with the same gusto, right to the very end, even though the vast majority of people in his immediate vicinity, sat or stood there in silence. Me? I stood up and gave them a bit of a clap as the players names were read out and then continued my conversation with my lad, I was pretty ambivalent to it all if I'm honest. Match started and then the same guy sitting next to me tried to get "Oh When The Reds" going, stood up chanting loud, gesturing to others to follow his lead ... I didn't join in, as didn't the vast majority sitting around us but HE kept going, for at least a good 15 minutes. I was pretty ambivalent about it all if I'm honest. Now what was clear here, is that this particular individual sitting next to me, had come to the match quite prepared to demonstrate to the players that he was there to support them right from the off, that support (at least initially) was unconditional, he would 'go first' on this particular transaction. It's called passion, he's a passionate football supporter, he goes to the game to BE passionate. But here's the rub, as the half went on, he began to start groaning as yet another back pass to Butland materialised, soon he began to start throwing his arms up as another pass was misplaced and then the verbals began ... "You could at least look like you even actually want to play for us Clucas" and so on and so on. He was thoroughly pissed off by half time and was letting the players know what he thought of their performance, I continued to sit there in silence, being pretty ambivalent to it all. But for him, it was called passion, he's a passionate football supporter, he goes to the game to BE passionate. And most of all, he too, is human. But YOU expect him to be super human, better than the professional athletes he has paid to watch? And whatever you think, he's most certainly not a massive part of the problem either Phil. Far from it. I really do sympathise but I have to disagree. There are two questions. Firstly, how did we get into this mess? We have all discussed this to death on here before and no the fans are not really part of the equation. That is distinct from a second more important question: Why are we now stuck in this rut, unable to move forward? The attitude and behaviour of the fans is definitely a significant contributing factor here. Supporting your team for the first 15 minutes of the game, then moaning and shouting abuse when it doesn't go according to plan, is shit support. It may be passionate. It may be justified. But it is shit support. The players will be used to this. They will know that we will sing a little bit for the first ten minutes, then bitch and moan and boo if they get things wrong, so the fact this guy is singing to begin with doesn't even help. Sitting there feeling sorry for yourself and being 'ambivalent' is also shit support. Again, maybe justifiable and entirely understandable but still shit support. Shit support carries over from one week to the next and is dragging us down. It is an additional weight around the neck of the players. Just put aside your passion and emotions for a moment, leave out questions as to what the players 'deserve' or whatever, and think about what we can do, as fans, to try and turn this club around. Whether our shit support is a massive part of the problem or whether it is a minor part, what have we got to lose by not being such whiny little mardarses for a few weeks? It's probably worth people easing off for a bit now, but if the fans had moaned as much in the Premier League as they are doing now we might well have sacked Hughes earlier and stayed up.
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Post by bristolpotter on Feb 13, 2019 5:53:07 GMT
Ah the old added let’s blame the fans trick.
Yep absolutely nothing at all to do with having shocking footballers who can’t be be arsed and who’ve been mismanaged from the offset, I’d have a wager if Moyes or Allardyce was put in the charge at the start of the season we’d have a lot more points on the board, missed the boat when will they learn?
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Post by stokeykez on Feb 13, 2019 7:19:38 GMT
Alot of teams have been there for the taking, it's just that we have been so piss poor we cant do that. The tide will turn, I just keep hoping that we start to bounce back after hitting the lowest point, exceptbthat lowest point just keeps getting deeper.
To think in 3 seasons weve dropped 28 places absolutely kills me.
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 13, 2019 8:37:59 GMT
Ah the old added let’s blame the fans trick. Yep absolutely nothing at all to do with having shocking footballers who can’t be be arsed and who’ve been mismanaged from the offset, I’d have a wager if Moyes or Allardyce was put in the charge at the start of the season we’d have a lot more points on the board, missed the boat when will they learn? If we'd put Allardyce or Moyes in charge at the beginning of the season yes we'd probably have more points, maybe even got promoted but we would still be in the same basic situation as neither would be here long term. I like the fact that we have a manager who sees us as a project and given time will completely change the way we work.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 13, 2019 9:34:28 GMT
We are being bored to death and it better improve or there'll be hardly anyone watching next season. Show us what you've got Potters. TONIGHT FOR GORDON!
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 13, 2019 10:32:52 GMT
NJ seemed to allude to such in his Post Match Presser On sat.
‘If they want us to aimlessly play forwards I’ll sign two giants to play up front and lump it to them’
Or words to that effect.
Surprised more hasn’t been said about it (unless I’ve missed it).
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 13, 2019 12:44:21 GMT
NJ seemed to allude to such in his Post Match Presser On sat. ‘If they want us to aimlessly play forwards I’ll sign two giants to play up front and lump it to them’ Or words to that effect. Surprised more hasn’t been said about it (unless I’ve missed it). The fact that it hasn't is proof that Jones is getting the honeymoon period he deserves and all this 'it's the fans bullshit' is just that, bullshit. The product on the the pitch is inept and getting the exact response it deserves. The manager is rightly getting a free ride for the timebeing.
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Post by s7oke on Feb 13, 2019 12:50:36 GMT
NJ seemed to allude to such in his Post Match Presser On sat. ‘If they want us to aimlessly play forwards I’ll sign two giants to play up front and lump it to them’ Or words to that effect. Surprised more hasn’t been said about it (unless I’ve missed it). The fact that it hasn't is proof that Jones is getting the honeymoon period he deserves and all this 'it's the fans bullshit' is just that, bullshit. The product on the the pitch is inept and getting the exact response it deserves. The manager is rightly getting a free ride for the timebeing. I’m sure he will get it right given the time he has his beliefs and sticks to them At least he has a plan unlike a couple of recent managers. I think he’s been given the job of overhauling the entire teams from youth upwards And close season I’m sure we will see big changes in players and attitudes.
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Post by philm87 on Feb 13, 2019 13:37:46 GMT
I really do sympathise but I have to disagree. There are two questions. Firstly, how did we get into this mess? We have all discussed this to death on here before and no the fans are not really part of the equation. That is distinct from a second more important question: Why are we now stuck in this rut, unable to move forward? The attitude and behaviour of the fans is definitely a significant contributing factor here. Supporting your team for the first 15 minutes of the game, then moaning and shouting abuse when it doesn't go according to plan, is shit support. It may be passionate. It may be justified. But it is shit support. The players will be used to this. They will know that we will sing a little bit for the first ten minutes, then bitch and moan and boo if they get things wrong, so the fact this guy is singing to begin with doesn't even help. Sitting there feeling sorry for yourself and being 'ambivalent' is also shit support. Again, maybe justifiable and entirely understandable but still shit support. Shit support carries over from one week to the next and is dragging us down. It is an additional weight around the neck of the players. Just put aside your passion and emotions for a moment, leave out questions as to what the players 'deserve' or whatever, and think about what we can do, as fans, to try and turn this club around. Whether our shit support is a massive part of the problem or whether it is a minor part, what have we got to lose by not being such whiny little mardarses for a few weeks? Thanks for that Phil, I'll be sure to let him know that Phil from the Oatcake reckons that both of us are shit supporters. Nice one Phil. 🙄 And your argument completely falls to pieces when you realise that we've managed to muster just two away wins all season, despite incredible support at every match. Oh and for the record, I didn't say I felt sorry for myself at all but you crack on, putting words into other people's mouths. I just gathered the impression that you felt sorry for yourself from the repeated references to your feelings of 'ambivalence'. My mistake. But the fact you appear to take offence to this so easily is again part of the problem. I think all that time in the Prem has perhaps made us arrogant, over-entitled and a little bit precious? I am not directing that at you personally by the way, just a wider point about how many of us have become. We have much better support at away games for sure, but it is not as if the players and staff will completely forget the atmosphere at our home games as soon as the whistle goes. I am not treating each game and each performance in isolation, but looking at the wider picture. The stench of negativity will follow us and them everywhere, on and off the pitch. Just listen to the latest press conference and the questions being asked. And I am definitely not saying 'its all the fans fault' or anything like that, just pointing out that we have now become a significant part of the problem. People can say they are only booing negative back passes. That is bollocks though. Woods got booed for a perfectly legitimate pass back when under pressure. I was trying to comment on something much wider than booing back passes though. It is not just how we are at games, but how we have become in general. Like the endless attention seeking threads on here with people declaring how 'everything is wank' or comparing us to Sunderland and whatever, the similar shit on social media and how all of this will be infiltrating the club. The squad do not exist in a bubble and we will be drip feeding them with our toxicity. I didn't say you or anyone else was a shit supporter. I said the behaviour that your described is an example of shit support. Important difference. I am saying you are being a mardarse though
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Post by philm87 on Feb 13, 2019 13:40:48 GMT
NJ seemed to allude to such in his Post Match Presser On sat. ‘If they want us to aimlessly play forwards I’ll sign two giants to play up front and lump it to them’ Or words to that effect. Surprised more hasn’t been said about it (unless I’ve missed it). The fact that it hasn't is proof that Jones is getting the honeymoon period he deserves and all this 'it's the fans bullshit' is just that, bullshit. The product on the the pitch is inept and getting the exact response it deserves. The manager is rightly getting a free ride for the timebeing. How exactly are you giving him a free ride? You started a thread the other day in which you declared, in your own words, that he was 'wank'. If that is giving someone a free ride I hate to see what you are like when you genuinely turn on someone.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 13, 2019 14:38:57 GMT
The fact that it hasn't is proof that Jones is getting the honeymoon period he deserves and all this 'it's the fans bullshit' is just that, bullshit. The product on the the pitch is inept and getting the exact response it deserves. The manager is rightly getting a free ride for the timebeing. How exactly are you giving him a free ride? You started a thread the other day in which you declared, in your own words, that he was 'wank'. If that is giving someone a free ride I hate to see what you are like when you genuinely turn on someone. A post match blast on a messageboard away from the ground isn't exactly stabbing him in the back and hounding him out of the club now is it? It's a topic for discussion. Some agreed, some didn't. It's certainly no more toxic a response than his about lumping it up to two big lads but these are tense times. Things get said. At the ground he gets full support even if the players are testing fans patience to the limit at the minute I don't think he's wank for what it's worth but I thought by sheer weight of personality and enthusiasm he'd have gotten more out of them by now. I'm as sick of hearing "this is a good bunch of players' as anyone but they should be doing better than they are. The whole club is massively underperfoming. I ask you again look at the stats I posted above and tell me, what is it about fan reaction that erks you. What is it they should be doing that they're not?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2019 15:11:36 GMT
How exactly are you giving him a free ride? You started a thread the other day in which you declared, in your own words, that he was 'wank'. If that is giving someone a free ride I hate to see what you are like when you genuinely turn on someone. A post match blast on a messageboard away from the ground isn't exactly stabbing him in the back and hounding him out of the club now is it? It's a topic for discussion. Some agreed, some didn't. It's certainly no more toxic a response than his about lumping it up to two big lads but these are tense times. Things get said. At the ground he gets full support even if the players are testing fans patience to the limit at the minute I don't think he's wank for what it's worth but I thought by sheer weight of personality and enthusiasm he'd have gotten more out of them by now. I'm as sick of hearing "this is a good bunch of players' as anyone but they should be doing better than they are. The whole club is massively underperfoming. I ask you again look at the stats I posted above and tell me, what is it about fan reaction that erks you. What is it they should be doing that they're not? I agree, no matter what the system, he has to get the players to play with confidence and ' have a go ', and that is the absolute minimum for any manager. AND so far he hasn't done that. I have heard that he is a ' fantastic coach ' and I am sure he is. But that's not enough, he has to show he can MANAGE a situation like this. Time will tell, I am open minded. The fact he is highly regarded coach is good, but its not enough. He has to show he can deal with bad situations like this one and turn things round. I am certain Nj is a good coach and a nice fella, but he is unknown manager and we will just have to see how he goes. He is an out and out gamble as a manager. He could be anything, including very good. Is he going to be given more time than lambo or GR to show he can get results? In a word.. No And why should he?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 13, 2019 17:02:30 GMT
Thanks for that Phil, I'll be sure to let him know that Phil from the Oatcake reckons that both of us are shit supporters. Nice one Phil. 🙄 And your argument completely falls to pieces when you realise that we've managed to muster just two away wins all season, despite incredible support at every match. Oh and for the record, I didn't say I felt sorry for myself at all but you crack on, putting words into other people's mouths. I just gathered the impression that you felt sorry for yourself from the repeated references to your feelings of 'ambivalence'. My mistake. But the fact you appear to take offence to this so easily is again part of the problem. I think all that time in the Prem has perhaps made us arrogant, over-entitled and a little bit precious? I am not directing that at you personally by the way, just a wider point about how many of us have become. We have much better support at away games for sure, but it is not as if the players and staff will completely forget the atmosphere at our home games as soon as the whistle goes. I am not treating each game and each performance in isolation, but looking at the wider picture. The stench of negativity will follow us and them everywhere, on and off the pitch. Just listen to the latest press conference and the questions being asked. And I am definitely not saying 'its all the fans fault' or anything like that, just pointing out that we have now become a significant part of the problem. People can say they are only booing negative back passes. That is bollocks though. Woods got booed for a perfectly legitimate pass back when under pressure. I was trying to comment on something much wider than booing back passes though. It is not just how we are at games, but how we have become in general. Like the endless attention seeking threads on here with people declaring how 'everything is wank' or comparing us to Sunderland and whatever, the similar shit on social media and how all of this will be infiltrating the club. The squad do not exist in a bubble and we will be drip feeding them with our toxicity. I didn't say you or anyone else was a shit supporter. I said the behaviour that your described is an example of shit support. Important difference. I am saying you are being a mardarse though Me disagreeing with somebody on a public message board who I think is talking rubbish, is "part of the problem", jeez, really? Listen to yourself. Man alive talk about an over reaction, there's a few jeers and boos from individuals in a football crowd. Were you going before we got into the Prem? It was exactly the same then. I think you're the one who is being "a little bit precious" here. Ha ha, so the now home support is the reason for the poor away performances too ... Indeed Phil, indeed! Hmmm ... you said: "Sitting there feeling sorry for yourself and being 'ambivalent' is also shit support."Sorry but telling somebody that their support is shit, whilst at the same time trying to claim that that person isn't a shit supporter doesn't stack up for me Phil. But you're the one moaning your sack off about other people moaning though. It really grates my gears when people start slagging off supporters when things go wrong, it's happened lots of times over the years. Stoke supporters aren't arrogant and over-entitled, we've spent years knowing what it's like to be shit and we don't ask for much, just a bit of effort and passion and not much more will usually suffice. Block 22 was proclaiming the other day that Stoke fans are just about as bad as you can get. I despise this sort of talk. It's not even that bad at the moment. There's no organised chanting or mass booing, maybe a collective groan every now and then or individual rants from the stands. Maybe you get a handful of idiots phoning up Radio Stoke and having a rant or people going over the top on here but really, it's hardly anything to warrant an attack on the fan base at large, suggesting we are a massive part of the problem. I've never booed a player in my life, although Sam Clucas might change that pretty soon (that's a joke by the way), I just don't see the point in it but I understand why other people might feel the need to do so. That's not to say that in the past I haven't (usually at away games) told somebody to pipe down, if they're going over the top abusing a player but I really do think that the claim that we are collectively a massive part of the problem, is inaccurate and a huge over reaction.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 13, 2019 17:29:49 GMT
Thanks for that Phil, I'll be sure to let him know that Phil from the Oatcake reckons that both of us are shit supporters. Nice one Phil. 🙄 And your argument completely falls to pieces when you realise that we've managed to muster just two away wins all season, despite incredible support at every match. Oh and for the record, I didn't say I felt sorry for myself at all but you crack on, putting words into other people's mouths. I just gathered the impression that you felt sorry for yourself from the repeated references to your feelings of 'ambivalence'. My mistake. But the fact you appear to take offence to this so easily is again part of the problem. I think all that time in the Prem has perhaps made us arrogant, over-entitled and a little bit precious? I am not directing that at you personally by the way, just a wider point about how many of us have become. We have much better support at away games for sure, but it is not as if the players and staff will completely forget the atmosphere at our home games as soon as the whistle goes. I am not treating each game and each performance in isolation, but looking at the wider picture. The stench of negativity will follow us and them everywhere, on and off the pitch. Just listen to the latest press conference and the questions being asked. And I am definitely not saying 'its all the fans fault' or anything like that, just pointing out that we have now become a significant part of the problem. People can say they are only booing negative back passes. That is bollocks though. Woods got booed for a perfectly legitimate pass back when under pressure. I was trying to comment on something much wider than booing back passes though. It is not just how we are at games, but how we have become in general. Like the endless attention seeking threads on here with people declaring how 'everything is wank' or comparing us to Sunderland and whatever, the similar shit on social media and how all of this will be infiltrating the club. The squad do not exist in a bubble and we will be drip feeding them with our toxicity. I didn't say you or anyone else was a shit supporter. I said the behaviour that your described is an example of shit support. Important difference. I am saying you are being a mardarse though I'll just pick up one thing from the above load of bollocks..."our away support is much better..." Having highlighted that our supporter base is a major reason for the players being half arsed lousy shitesters you then claim that the away supporter is so much better. You are aware we've won only 2 games on the road all season arent you? Presumably you are also aware that those 2 wins came courtesy of an own goal and a man of match showing from our keeper? Seems we cant player in front of lousy heckling home supporters or top notch away supporters to me which leads me to conclude that booing or cheering, this group of players really don't give a shit either way.
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Post by skelman on Feb 13, 2019 18:18:45 GMT
We did not deserve a point? We gave away a school boy goal. We struggled to have a shot on target. We didn't win a single 50-50 challenge. We got exactly what we deserved - defeat. Looked pretty much like that to me too March! And it’s not the supporters fault that they’ve been dragged into this malaise either! 2 years of errors and drivel has dragged everyone down and it’s an insult to our fans to say they shouldn’t express their displeasure with some of the lacklustre crap we’ve had to endure at times. The team can do it when they really want to eg. against Derby and Leeds but then they think that the next opponents should owe them some respect or something and our arrogant ‘we shouldn’t really be in this league ‘ mentality seems to kick in again. Don’t think we’re seeing anything like the team spirit, effort or level of application that we should be from an investment of £64m and a players weekly wage bill of nigh on £500,000. Maybe when some of the players hear those first boos for a throw in back down the line again or at the 5th consecutive sideways pass or when there’s a back pass to Jack when there’s other clear and more viable options, they should take notice and respond positively. The fans can see they’re doing something wrong or coasting, and actually those players need to up their game, effort and application. It’s certainly no fcukkin use applauding the players responsible for making the same mistakes week after week. If those players can’t take the responsibility themselves then they need a kick up the arse and the initial boos are exactly that. The problem is some people refuse to recognise they’re being lazy or doing something wrong and so they continue to compound the problem. That’s a mixture of arrogance, laziness, ineptitude and negativity and unfortunately we’ve got some of that!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2019 18:46:12 GMT
I think people just need to realise there's nuance and not everything is black and white. Booing during games is shite at this point, especially for a team that is widely-known to have no confidence.
The view people have that if you dislike booing in games that means you're perfectly happy with the club can get in the bin.
for example, NJ saying the game vs WBA was 'excellent' is very optimistic. Likewise people acting like its the end of the world is ridiculous too. We're improving slowly to say the least, but to say we're improving and we shouldn't boo backwards passes is not the same as 'everything is fine and we should never complain'.
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Post by philm87 on Feb 13, 2019 19:01:56 GMT
How exactly are you giving him a free ride? You started a thread the other day in which you declared, in your own words, that he was 'wank'. If that is giving someone a free ride I hate to see what you are like when you genuinely turn on someone. A post match blast on a messageboard away from the ground isn't exactly stabbing him in the back and hounding him out of the club now is it? It's a topic for discussion. Some agreed, some didn't. It's certainly no more toxic a response than his about lumping it up to two big lads but these are tense times. Things get said. At the ground he gets full support even if the players are testing fans patience to the limit at the minute I don't think he's wank for what it's worth but I thought by sheer weight of personality and enthusiasm he'd have gotten more out of them by now. I'm as sick of hearing "this is a good bunch of players' as anyone but they should be doing better than they are. The whole club is massively underperfoming. I ask you again look at the stats I posted above and tell me, what is it about fan reaction that erks you. What is it they should be doing that they're not? You don't think he's wank but you thought it worth creating an entirely new thread calling him wank in the title? As I suggested in the original post, what I think people should do if they are unable to contain themselves during these tense times is just shut up for a little bit.
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Post by philm87 on Feb 13, 2019 19:02:55 GMT
I think people just need to realise there's nuance and not everything is black and white. Booing during games is shite at this point, especially for a team that is widely-known to have no confidence. The view people have that if you dislike booing in games that means you're perfectly happy with the club can get in the bin. for example, NJ saying the game vs WBA was 'excellent' is very optimistic. Likewise people acting like its the end of the world is ridiculous too. We're improving slowly to say the least, but to say we're improving and we shouldn't boo backwards passes is not the same as 'everything is fine and we should never complain'. Nuance on the Oatcake!!!!
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