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Post by WhyDelilah on Feb 9, 2019 21:15:08 GMT
For some reason a lot of fans seem to be excusing Jones of any responsibility. Like he has nothing whatsoever to do with what is going on, on the the pitch.
It's all the players fault, and Nath is beyond question.
Let's be honest, that's complete bullshit.
Yes, the players are gutless cowards who should be fucking ashamed, but the manager needs to carry the can too.
Rowett, for as utterly useless as he was, managed to get a better tune out of this team and ultimately did a better job.
And that's saying something. The job he did was fucking abysmal, yet Jones has still somehow managed to lower the bar.
I keep hearing "he's just figuring the squad out" and "he needs time".
The latter sentiment I can get on board with but the former is bollocks. The training ground is enough to see that McClean isn't a fucking centre forward. And if the training ground isn't, then the last game he played there should have been enough.
And then we have Clucas at left back (Or Tymon in previous games). What the fuck is that all about? Why the fuck let Pieters go?
He might have a system he's wedded too, but if he hasn't got the players to suit then he has a responsibility to the best job he can with the tools at his disposal.
As I see it, everyone is giving him a flyer to just do what he wants, no matter how detrimental, and not hold him accountable whatsoever.
The guys getting paid handomsely. This contract will make him a millionaire. He needs to pull his fucking finger out.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 9, 2019 21:43:00 GMT
For some reason a lot of fans seem to be excusing Jones of any responsibility. Like he has nothing whatsoever to do with what is going on, on the the pitch. It's all the players fault, and Nath is beyond question. Let's be honest, that's complete bullshit. Yes, the players are gutless cowards who should be fucking ashamed, but the manager needs to carry the can too. Rowett, for as utterly useless as he was, managed to get a better tune out of this team and ultimately did a better job. And that's saying something. The job he did was fucking abysmal, yet Jones has still somehow managed to lower the bar. I keep hearing "he's just figuring the squad out" and "he needs time". The latter sentiment I can get on board with but the former is bollocks. The training ground is enough to see that McClean isn't a fucking centre forward. And if the training ground isn't, then the last game he played there should have been enough. And then we have Clucas at left back (Or Tymon in previous games). What the fuck is that all about? Why the fuck let Pieters go? He might have a system he's wedded too, but if he hasn't got the players to suit then he has a responsibility to the best job he can with the tools at his disposal. As I see it, everyone is giving him a flyer to just do what he wants, no matter how detrimental, and not hold him accountable whatsoever. The guys getting paid handomsely. This contract will make him a millionaire. He needs to pull his fucking finger out. Can't fault much of that to be fair. He does have responsibility. What I find amazing is how little (apart from my rants) is thrown at Carto and Scholes. Are people not even just a bit intrigued in finding out what Carto does? I for the life of me have no idea but he seems to get away scott free. It's insane.
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Post by andystokey on Feb 9, 2019 22:01:56 GMT
For some reason a lot of fans seem to be excusing Jones of any responsibility. Like he has nothing whatsoever to do with what is going on, on the the pitch. It's all the players fault, and Nath is beyond question. Let's be honest, that's complete bullshit. Yes, the players are gutless cowards who should be fucking ashamed, but the manager needs to carry the can too. Rowett, for as utterly useless as he was, managed to get a better tune out of this team and ultimately did a better job. And that's saying something. The job he did was fucking abysmal, yet Jones has still somehow managed to lower the bar. I keep hearing "he's just figuring the squad out" and "he needs time". The latter sentiment I can get on board with but the former is bollocks. The training ground is enough to see that McClean isn't a fucking centre forward. And if the training ground isn't, then the last game he played there should have been enough. And then we have Clucas at left back (Or Tymon in previous games). What the fuck is that all about? Why the fuck let Pieters go? He might have a system he's wedded too, but if he hasn't got the players to suit then he has a responsibility to the best job he can with the tools at his disposal. As I see it, everyone is giving him a flyer to just do what he wants, no matter how detrimental, and not hold him accountable whatsoever. The guys getting paid handomsely. This contract will make him a millionaire. He needs to pull his fucking finger out. Rowett managed one win in his first seven matches despite having a full preseason and a £50m pick of players. Hardly getting a tune out of them was it?
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Post by boneman66 on Feb 9, 2019 22:11:51 GMT
Wow - deluded springs to mind. Haven’t you seen the garbage that has been served up over the past ‘god knows how long’ since the league cup semi defeat. The recruitment since that time has led us to where we are now. Nathan cannot, and must not, be accountable until we have transitioned. We have 2 new recruits in a team of 11, and that ain’t going to launch a rocket to the moon. The lad needs 18 months+, which hopefully means achieving 50 points per season before we can move forward. It took 23 years and many mistakes before; so hopefully not the same again! Be patient. I’m still going Wigan despite the s**t #keepthefaith
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Post by onyourbonce on Feb 9, 2019 22:12:42 GMT
Just keep changing the manager and keeping every1 else in a job and see if we get anywhere. For fuck sake. Every manager we hire is wank. No they fucking arnt, the hand they’ve been dealt is wank. Wank ceo, want recruitment, and the owners allow this, so wank owners. Throwing money away and not addressing the real problem. I have no sympathy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 22:18:13 GMT
you've had (and got) such a huge agenda against him from the the get go. we get it. you are bordering on being a spam bot.
hard to take any points seriously when they are not up for discussion. you have your mind made up already. :yawn:
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 9, 2019 22:21:20 GMT
It's a bit unfair to hold him accountable yet. He's trying to change for the long term and had a horrendous start. Wasn't it something like 3 matches in eight days with just three days of training?
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Post by kjpt140v on Feb 9, 2019 22:28:52 GMT
How is he responsible for poor passing, poor marking, delayed crosses, slow reactions at free kicks, referee not spotting an obvious penalty (handball)?
How is he responsible for half arsed displays from Clucas, Ince, Wood?
Playing staff need to look at themselves it is they who play poorly, let Jones get on with it and assess at Christmas.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Feb 9, 2019 22:33:18 GMT
How is he responsible for poor passing, poor marking, delayed crosses, slow reactions at free kicks What does he do on the training ground? Are you saying he's responsible for none of that?
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Post by meltonjohn on Feb 9, 2019 22:38:53 GMT
Wow - deluded springs to mind. Haven’t you seen the garbage that has been served up over the past ‘god knows how long’ since the league cup semi defeat. The recruitment since that time has led us to where we are now. Nathan cannot, and must not, be accountable until we have transitioned. We have 2 new recruits in a team of 11, and that ain’t going to launch a rocket to the moon. The lad needs 18 months+, which hopefully means achieving 50 points per season before we can move forward. It took 23 years and many mistakes before; so hopefully not the same again! Be patient. I’m still going Wigan despite the s**t #keepthefaith Agree with you entirely. Stoke fans are in danger of becoming a bigger joke than the team if we don’t give Jones at least until Xmas to show his worth. Pulis and Hughes both lost the plot after excellence service, Lambert was the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time. Rowett blew his chances with poor signings and stupid comments about players and supporters #innathanwe trust.
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 9, 2019 22:43:33 GMT
As I said on another thread it took Pulis five matches to get his first point, a draw with Gillingham. His first win was another four weeks later. The advantage he had was that our expectations weren't that high so people could see what he was doing. His second spell in charge wasn't a lot better - nine points from ten games, but there was no transfer window so he went and signed a few players to improve things.
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Post by kjpt140v on Feb 9, 2019 22:52:10 GMT
How is he responsible for poor passing, poor marking, delayed crosses, slow reactions at free kicks What does he do on the training ground? Are you saying he's responsible for none of that? He can only work what he has and what he has a bunch of poor bunch of players, they are not good enough. If they can't pass at this level then nobody is ever going to teach. I question wether or not he should change the formation other than that no I don't think he is to blame. How many managers are we going to sack before we realise we can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear. You tell me where he is lacking, what would you do that would magically change thing.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Feb 9, 2019 22:54:52 GMT
What does he do on the training ground? Are you saying he's responsible for none of that? He can only work what he has and what he has a bunch of poor bunch of players, they are not good enough. If they can't pass at this level then nobody is ever going to teach. I question wether or not he should change the formation other than that no I don't think he is to blame. How many managers are we going to sack before we realise we can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear. You tell me where he is lacking, what would you do that would magically change thing. Fuck McClean off from up front for a start. You don't need to pay me millions to sort that shit out.
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Post by kjpt140v on Feb 9, 2019 22:58:26 GMT
He can only work what he has and what he has a bunch of poor bunch of players, they are not good enough. If they can't pass at this level then nobody is ever going to teach. I question wether or not he should change the formation other than that no I don't think he is to blame. How many managers are we going to sack before we realise we can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear. You tell me where he is lacking, what would you do that would magically change thing. Fuck McClean off from up front for a start. You don't need to pay me millions to sort that shit out. And that's it is it?
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Post by jontimmis on Feb 9, 2019 22:59:52 GMT
I said it last week the 35 points we had on the board may be the only thing that just about keeps us up!
I mean we are 17th ffs!
3 games time that gap could be quite feasibly down from 12 to 7-8 points
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Post by WhyDelilah on Feb 10, 2019 9:33:18 GMT
Fuck McClean off from up front for a start. You don't need to pay me millions to sort that shit out. And that's it is it? Yeah, that's it.
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Post by stokieinaus on Feb 10, 2019 9:54:37 GMT
For some reason a lot of fans seem to be excusing Jones of any responsibility. Like he has nothing whatsoever to do with what is going on, on the the pitch. It's all the players fault, and Nath is beyond question. Let's be honest, that's complete bullshit. Yes, the players are gutless cowards who should be fucking ashamed, but the manager needs to carry the can too. Rowett, for as utterly useless as he was, managed to get a better tune out of this team and ultimately did a better job. And that's saying something. The job he did was fucking abysmal, yet Jones has still somehow managed to lower the bar. I keep hearing "he's just figuring the squad out" and "he needs time". The latter sentiment I can get on board with but the former is bollocks. The training ground is enough to see that McClean isn't a fucking centre forward. And if the training ground isn't, then the last game he played there should have been enough. And then we have Clucas at left back (Or Tymon in previous games). What the fuck is that all about? Why the fuck let Pieters go? He might have a system he's wedded too, but if he hasn't got the players to suit then he has a responsibility to the best job he can with the tools at his disposal. As I see it, everyone is giving him a flyer to just do what he wants, no matter how detrimental, and not hold him accountable whatsoever. The guys getting paid handomsely. This contract will make him a millionaire. He needs to pull his fucking finger out. We must all know by now that we have a huge problem, but this is the third manager since Hughes and we haven’t got any better. Look at it like an amateur golf player, who plays off a 12 handicap, no matter how much he practices he can’t get lower than 12. Why, because his technique is wrong, so to get a lower handicap he needs to change his technique, the problem is, when he changes his technique his handicap gets higher initially, which frustrates him, but if he sticks to the new system, he may finally master the new technique and from that he will starts to see the benefit. Thats how I believe Stoke have to approach the coming seasons.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 10, 2019 9:55:54 GMT
For some reason a lot of fans seem to be excusing Jones of any responsibility. Like he has nothing whatsoever to do with what is going on, on the the pitch. It's all the players fault, and Nath is beyond question. Let's be honest, that's complete bullshit. Yes, the players are gutless cowards who should be fucking ashamed, but the manager needs to carry the can too. Rowett, for as utterly useless as he was, managed to get a better tune out of this team and ultimately did a better job. And that's saying something. The job he did was fucking abysmal, yet Jones has still somehow managed to lower the bar. I keep hearing "he's just figuring the squad out" and "he needs time". The latter sentiment I can get on board with but the former is bollocks. The training ground is enough to see that McClean isn't a fucking centre forward. And if the training ground isn't, then the last game he played there should have been enough. And then we have Clucas at left back (Or Tymon in previous games). What the fuck is that all about? Why the fuck let Pieters go? He might have a system he's wedded too, but if he hasn't got the players to suit then he has a responsibility to the best job he can with the tools at his disposal. As I see it, everyone is giving him a flyer to just do what he wants, no matter how detrimental, and not hold him accountable whatsoever. The guys getting paid handomsely. This contract will make him a millionaire. He needs to pull his fucking finger out. Can't argue with any of that. Anyone could have told him McLean up top won't work. Anyone could have told him Tymon and BMI are not good enough left backs to let Pieters go. Anyone could have told him we don't have the players for a diamond formation. He's got to go with 352 or 4231 until he gets players in who can play his system. It's also very worrying that his post match interview had words like 'excellent' in it.
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Post by webbyscfc on Feb 10, 2019 9:57:31 GMT
Is he accountable for the near 36 months of a shit show that preceeded him which he has been asked to sort out???
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 10, 2019 10:01:09 GMT
Is he accountable for the near 36 months of a shit show that preceeded him which he has been asked to sort out??? He's got enough players good enough not to lose 5 games out of 6.
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 10, 2019 10:03:43 GMT
I agree about McLean. His lack of movement and reading of Voke's flick ons was a big part of the problem. At one point yesterday Clucas had the ball on the half way line with not a single player in the quarter of the pitch ahead of him. His only option because of WBA players around him was to play the ball into that space. Nobody read the pass so it went out for a goal kick. Cue the moaners in the crowd criticising the pass. Where were Allen and to a greater extent McLean?
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Post by wrighter on Feb 10, 2019 10:03:54 GMT
As I said on another thread it took Pulis five matches to get his first point, a draw with Gillingham. His first win was another four weeks later. The advantage he had was that our expectations weren't that high so people could see what he was doing. His second spell in charge wasn't a lot better - nine points from ten games, but there was no transfer window so he went and signed a few players to improve things. Brilliant post, totally agree
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Post by silsdenstokie on Feb 10, 2019 10:05:12 GMT
And if we lose the next 4, will he still be blameless and still need more time?
We are sleepwalking in to a relegation battle here. He needs to find a system that suits the players we have and get the necessary points on board. Then he can start edging towards the system he wants to play.
The decision to let Pieters go without a replacement is looking more stupid by the day
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Post by adi on Feb 10, 2019 10:09:45 GMT
WhyDelilah in slating Nathan Jones shocker! He’s biased beyond belief and I’m sure revels in anything negative around Jones. Before we’d kicked a ball he was slagging him off, strangely for being religious! I’m an atheist but I don’t care about his religious denomination as it’s about the football for me. WD you need to move on as it’s an obsessive level of hatred towards the man. Are you Gary Rowett? Has Jones wronged you personally? It’s embarrassing lad.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Feb 10, 2019 10:10:36 GMT
NJ is like a man at a Poker game,who was dealt a crooked hand hand,yet is expected to take that hand and win.
Whoever dealt that hand needs to be fucked off sheepish,the conniving little shit rag.
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Post by kjpt140v on Feb 10, 2019 10:13:12 GMT
So the best you can do is replace McLean and that's enough to get us top of the league. Well well obviously Jones must go if he hasn't spotted that.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Feb 10, 2019 14:08:58 GMT
WhyDelilah in slating Nathan Jones shocker! He’s biased beyond belief and I’m sure revels in anything negative around Jones. Before we’d kicked a ball he was slagging him off, strangely for being religious! I’m an atheist but I don’t care about his religious denomination as it’s about the football for me. WD you need to move on as it’s an obsessive level of hatred towards the man. Are you Gary Rowett? Has Jones wronged you personally? It’s embarrassing lad. Addressing none of the points from the OP the? Excellent retort.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 10, 2019 14:17:32 GMT
For some reason a lot of fans seem to be excusing Jones of any responsibility. Like he has nothing whatsoever to do with what is going on, on the the pitch. It's all the players fault, and Nath is beyond question. Let's be honest, that's complete bullshit. Yes, the players are gutless cowards who should be fucking ashamed, but the manager needs to carry the can too. Rowett, for as utterly useless as he was, managed to get a better tune out of this team and ultimately did a better job. And that's saying something. The job he did was fucking abysmal, yet Jones has still somehow managed to lower the bar. I keep hearing "he's just figuring the squad out" and "he needs time". The latter sentiment I can get on board with but the former is bollocks. The training ground is enough to see that McClean isn't a fucking centre forward. And if the training ground isn't, then the last game he played there should have been enough. And then we have Clucas at left back (Or Tymon in previous games). What the fuck is that all about? Why the fuck let Pieters go? He might have a system he's wedded too, but if he hasn't got the players to suit then he has a responsibility to the best job he can with the tools at his disposal. As I see it, everyone is giving him a flyer to just do what he wants, no matter how detrimental, and not hold him accountable whatsoever. The guys getting paid handomsely. This contract will make him a millionaire. He needs to pull his fucking finger out. I think you’re right. Ultimately fans are fickle, but if we’re honest I think most fans would get behind the manager if they are shown a reason to do so. I’ve said it before but we need round pegs and round holes (McClean up front = square peg). The main thing is effort by the players, if they work their arse off the fans will get onside. Most of this is down to the player but a big chunk of it lies with the manager. He’s responsible for getting them going!
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Post by Rick Grimes on Feb 10, 2019 19:15:27 GMT
For some reason a lot of fans seem to be excusing Jones of any responsibility. Like he has nothing whatsoever to do with what is going on, on the the pitch. It's all the players fault, and Nath is beyond question. Let's be honest, that's complete bullshit. Yes, the players are gutless cowards who should be fucking ashamed, but the manager needs to carry the can too. Rowett, for as utterly useless as he was, managed to get a better tune out of this team and ultimately did a better job. And that's saying something. The job he did was fucking abysmal, yet Jones has still somehow managed to lower the bar. I keep hearing "he's just figuring the squad out" and "he needs time". The latter sentiment I can get on board with but the former is bollocks. The training ground is enough to see that McClean isn't a fucking centre forward. And if the training ground isn't, then the last game he played there should have been enough. And then we have Clucas at left back (Or Tymon in previous games). What the fuck is that all about? Why the fuck let Pieters go? He might have a system he's wedded too, but if he hasn't got the players to suit then he has a responsibility to the best job he can with the tools at his disposal. As I see it, everyone is giving him a flyer to just do what he wants, no matter how detrimental, and not hold him accountable whatsoever. The guys getting paid handomsely. This contract will make him a millionaire. He needs to pull his fucking finger out. You’ve had it in for him since day one, which is a problem.
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Post by Gods on Feb 10, 2019 19:32:25 GMT
The OP is correct, that's how it always works, and Jones wouldn't want it any other way I'm quite sure of that.
Oh, and results need to improve, quick smart, we didn't pay off his predecessor in order for things to get worse as they have.
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