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Post by thebet365 on Feb 12, 2019 11:46:57 GMT
Am I missing something or are they not contractually obliged to pay if they reach the amount of games? We've suffered because of our terrible business deals, so should they, I'd say no renegotiation they've made their bed now let them lie in it. If they're insistent on renegotiation and we're willing to do so then let's not trim the price too much, it's about time we stood our ground. They simply won't play him if we don't negotiate a lower fee. If we want rid it would be stupid not to talk otherwise we'll be stuck with him (and his wages) at the end of the season.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 12, 2019 11:50:47 GMT
Yeah but we barely spunked 18m combined on them! Another treasure from our transfer team, well done lads proud of you. You really are a great assett to SCFC. That one signing alone should be enough for heads to roll in the transfer team whether the manager wanted him or not. A disgrace. But lets keep ignoring the problem. Hughes was adamant he wanted him (and Berahino) To be fair to the 'transfer team', surely you've got to ultimately get the players the manager wants? www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-news-cartwright-1569418The club’s top brass will also insist that it was Hughes pushing longest and hardest for £18m Kevin Wimmer at a time last August when, by common consent, a striker and not a centre-half was the more crucial acquisition for the Potters. But isn't the entire point of a technical director to ensure that cock ups are kept to a minimum? Having a system in place that means failed signings are not an anchor around our necks for 5 years. Blame the manager all you want but after the number of managers we have been through the finger eventually has to point somewhere else. Let's put it another way, if the Coates weren't so unbelievably wealthy we would going bust with the endless poor signings we have been making. You can't keep dumping the blame at the managers door, the ultimate problem lies elsewhere and we all know where that is.
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Post by riproaringagain on Feb 12, 2019 12:09:23 GMT
Can we sell him? Goldenhill Wanderers were after him but the £50 transfer fee put them off Why wish him him On them
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Post by lordb on Feb 12, 2019 12:31:14 GMT
Totally agree. Point being though that there is an undeniable trend here - and that must have a cause.
As a club we need to identify it and remove or solve it.
Otherwise, logic suggets shit will keep on happening. I agree but Wimmer was known to be Mark Hughes’ decision as was Imbula. GR signed a load of useless players in the summer and they were his decision. And yet people blame the recruitment team and complain the manager should pick the players when the managers have been culpable for the fuck ups as well (or completely responsible). And then the conspiracy theories start that well maybe the manager was only allowed to choose that player or GR was allowed to spent tens of millions but not on a defender. And it all becomes a bit ridiculous. So whilst I agree there needs to be a proper look at recruitment (and I don’t think an ex agent should be in a job a proper scout should be doing) the never ending witch hunt on this board has got to stop. A series of colossal fuck ups have been made by a number of people over a number of years and we now are where we are. But if we get him off our books and get a sum to reinvest in less of a useless bell end over the summer then I will look at that as a positive for the future rather than dwell on the errors of the past. agreed, blaming Scholes & Cartwright for Hughes mistakes is just wrong however it wasn't Hughes who negotiated the sky high for Wimmer, that was Scholes
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 12, 2019 12:37:50 GMT
I agree but Wimmer was known to be Mark Hughes’ decision as was Imbula. GR signed a load of useless players in the summer and they were his decision. And yet people blame the recruitment team and complain the manager should pick the players when the managers have been culpable for the fuck ups as well (or completely responsible). And then the conspiracy theories start that well maybe the manager was only allowed to choose that player or GR was allowed to spent tens of millions but not on a defender. And it all becomes a bit ridiculous. So whilst I agree there needs to be a proper look at recruitment (and I don’t think an ex agent should be in a job a proper scout should be doing) the never ending witch hunt on this board has got to stop. A series of colossal fuck ups have been made by a number of people over a number of years and we now are where we are. But if we get him off our books and get a sum to reinvest in less of a useless bell end over the summer then I will look at that as a positive for the future rather than dwell on the errors of the past. agreed, blaming Scholes & Cartwright for Hughes mistakes is just wrong however it wasn't Hughes who negotiated the sky high for Wimmer, that was Scholes Why is it wrong? The amount of mistakes is horrendous. At what number of mistakes is it right to start blaming the technical director? Another 20 shit signings do it maybe? They have to be held accountable or else what is the bloody point of even having a technical director. I think you are way off the mark here.
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Post by realstokebloke on Feb 12, 2019 12:47:00 GMT
I agree but Wimmer was known to be Mark Hughes’ decision as was Imbula. GR signed a load of useless players in the summer and they were his decision. And yet people blame the recruitment team and complain the manager should pick the players when the managers have been culpable for the fuck ups as well (or completely responsible). And then the conspiracy theories start that well maybe the manager was only allowed to choose that player or GR was allowed to spent tens of millions but not on a defender. And it all becomes a bit ridiculous. So whilst I agree there needs to be a proper look at recruitment (and I don’t think an ex agent should be in a job a proper scout should be doing) the never ending witch hunt on this board has got to stop. A series of colossal fuck ups have been made by a number of people over a number of years and we now are where we are. But if we get him off our books and get a sum to reinvest in less of a useless bell end over the summer then I will look at that as a positive for the future rather than dwell on the errors of the past. agreed, blaming Scholes & Cartwright for Hughes mistakes is just wrong however it wasn't Hughes who negotiated the sky high for Wimmer, that was Scholes It's difficult as there is an undeniable truth in that.
However with just the metrics of knowing how much we've spent and just what a load of old sh1te we got for such an outlay, the club is remiss.
And as far as I know, the club is, essentially run (or should be) by the CEO or whatever Teflon's title actually is.
So we're back to the old adage of "the buck stops..."
The trouble is, the man or men that should be holding that title holder to account, unbelievably seem happy that the system (or was it the "process"?) works.
Mmm.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 12, 2019 12:51:47 GMT
Actually he's useless, which makes him better than some defenders still here.
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Post by nonameface on Feb 12, 2019 13:15:59 GMT
Speculation in Germany that as Hannover will probably now need to play Wimmer due to injury, they will try to renegotiate his automatically-triggered transfer fee (after 24 games) down. Seems sensible for all concerned. You can't expect another team to smash their transfer record for him. They'd sooner not play him than do that. £5m seems fair for everyone? fussball.news/artikel/akpoguma-ausfall-koennte-hannover-millionen-kosten/Hannover 96 won in their six-point relegation battle against Nuremberg 2-0. But the first victory under Thomas Doll came with a price. Kevin Akpoguma injured his shoulder and will miss the rest of the season. That could cost the Lower Saxony club millions. As the first replacement for their loaned defender is Wimmer. The Austrian was already used from the bench against Nuremberg. The 26-year-old only plays for Hannover on loan. However, as is known since December Hannover must commit to him permanently after 24 competitive match operations and pay twelve million euros. For comparison: The current record transfer of Hannover, striker Jonathas, is nine million euros. Renegotiations? Wimmer is currently at 16 games. And clearly ahead of his competitors Josip Elez and Felipe, who have not made it into the 18-man matchday squad under Doll. The Bild newspaper reported logically that the new coach wants to absorb the failure of Akpoguma with the former professional of 1.FC Cologne. But for Hanover that is quite dangerous. Therefore, the tabloid sheet assumes that manager Horst Heldt will soon start renegotiations with Stoke City to push the transfer fee down. However, the English second division paid in 2017 even close to 20 million euro. How realistic an accommodation there seems there is questionable. A slight different view now is there aren't enough games left to trigger it? Although I hope that isn't the case. www.ligainsider.de/mobile/kevin-wimmer_3776/kaufpflicht-fuer-hannover-vom-tisch-263772/Kevin Wimmer is still on loan to Hannover 96 from Stoke City until the end of the season. Last summer, the Lower Saxony brought the central defender back to the Bundesliga and thereby secured a purchase option. As reported in December and was also confirmed by club president Martin Kind, but a clause was anchored in the contract to buy. This should be active in a fixed number of games and Wimmer for a transfer of rumored twelve million euros - it would be the record purchase in the club's history - bind to the Lower Saxony. Was at the end of the previous year only from 24 games the speech, the conditions according to a report of the "New Press" be stored slightly different: According to the information sheet of the Wimmers 25th season game in the Bundesliga would take at least 45 minutes of deployment time. So far, there are eleven appearances that meet this criterion. With only 13 pending backflushes, the said brand is therefore out of reach, so the clause can not be automatically activated according to the report. Wimmer could become important again in the late '96s, given the long-term failure of Kevin Akpoguma (shoulder surgery on Wednesday). Already last weekend he came in after the loss of his colleague. "Kevin has caught that well," said coach Thomas Doll afterwards.
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Post by realstokebloke on Feb 12, 2019 13:18:55 GMT
Oh bollox.
Can't they go on a massive cup run or something?
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Post by jimmygscfc on Feb 12, 2019 13:22:54 GMT
That would be so bloody Stoke, if he now played every single game for them, falling one short of the trigger, saving them from relegation and then they send him back to us, or just loan him again and let him play no more than 24 games!!!! They could do that each year until he becomes a free agent and then say thanks but bugger off now, we don't need you.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 12, 2019 13:45:02 GMT
Speculation in Germany that as Hannover will probably now need to play Wimmer due to injury, they will try to renegotiate his automatically-triggered transfer fee (after 24 games) down. Seems sensible for all concerned. You can't expect another team to smash their transfer record for him. They'd sooner not play him than do that. £5m seems fair for everyone? fussball.news/artikel/akpoguma-ausfall-koennte-hannover-millionen-kosten/Hannover 96 won in their six-point relegation battle against Nuremberg 2-0. But the first victory under Thomas Doll came with a price. Kevin Akpoguma injured his shoulder and will miss the rest of the season. That could cost the Lower Saxony club millions. As the first replacement for their loaned defender is Wimmer. The Austrian was already used from the bench against Nuremberg. The 26-year-old only plays for Hannover on loan. However, as is known since December Hannover must commit to him permanently after 24 competitive match operations and pay twelve million euros. For comparison: The current record transfer of Hannover, striker Jonathas, is nine million euros. Renegotiations? Wimmer is currently at 16 games. And clearly ahead of his competitors Josip Elez and Felipe, who have not made it into the 18-man matchday squad under Doll. The Bild newspaper reported logically that the new coach wants to absorb the failure of Akpoguma with the former professional of 1.FC Cologne. But for Hanover that is quite dangerous. Therefore, the tabloid sheet assumes that manager Horst Heldt will soon start renegotiations with Stoke City to push the transfer fee down. However, the English second division paid in 2017 even close to 20 million euro. How realistic an accommodation there seems there is questionable. A slight different view now is there aren't enough games left to trigger it? Although I hope that isn't the case. www.ligainsider.de/mobile/kevin-wimmer_3776/kaufpflicht-fuer-hannover-vom-tisch-263772/Kevin Wimmer is still on loan to Hannover 96 from Stoke City until the end of the season. Last summer, the Lower Saxony brought the central defender back to the Bundesliga and thereby secured a purchase option. As reported in December and was also confirmed by club president Martin Kind, but a clause was anchored in the contract to buy. This should be active in a fixed number of games and Wimmer for a transfer of rumored twelve million euros - it would be the record purchase in the club's history - bind to the Lower Saxony. Was at the end of the previous year only from 24 games the speech, the conditions according to a report of the "New Press" be stored slightly different: According to the information sheet of the Wimmers 25th season game in the Bundesliga would take at least 45 minutes of deployment time. So far, there are eleven appearances that meet this criterion. With only 13 pending backflushes, the said brand is therefore out of reach, so the clause can not be automatically activated according to the report. Wimmer could become important again in the late '96s, given the long-term failure of Kevin Akpoguma (shoulder surgery on Wednesday). Already last weekend he came in after the loss of his colleague. "Kevin has caught that well," said coach Thomas Doll afterwards. Disaster if true! So their local paper says the clause can no longer be triggered. Wimmer can always be allowed! The crazy purchase clause can no longer take hold, according to the NP. It would have committed 96 to purchase, according to the newspaper's info, if Wimmer had played 25 games with at least 45 minutes. www.sportbuzzer.de/artikel/hannover-96-kevin-wimmer-darf-jetzt-immer-kaufpflicht-klausel-kein-problem-mehr/Wimmer is now always allowed! Purchase clause of 96-defender no longer a problem
25 games for Wimmer is no longer possible
According to SPORT BUZZER information, the clause would apply to Wimmer's 25th league game, in which he played at least 45 minutes.
That's not possible anymore.
Wimmer has played for eleven league games over the required time, but the season has only 13 games left - so Wimmer is now always allowed!
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Post by harlequin on Feb 12, 2019 15:28:35 GMT
I was about to join in the Wimmer bashing but can't actually remember him it all. He left no impression on me.
I wonder if there would be the same vitriol if we bought him for a fee that more accurately reflected his abilities like £4 million 500k?
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 12, 2019 17:14:02 GMT
Who’s picking up his wages bill. Us or Hannover?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Feb 12, 2019 17:35:57 GMT
We should let him go to anyone who will take on his contract.
No transfer fee required
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Feb 12, 2019 17:41:28 GMT
A glowing reference for the lad.
Get rid.
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Feb 12, 2019 17:49:27 GMT
Hasn't Wimmer said that he wouldn't come back to Stoke or realises he has no future?
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Feb 12, 2019 17:52:04 GMT
Hasn't Wimmer said that he wouldn't come back to Stoke or realises he has no future? Comments made when he thought they might actually want to sign him... Unfortunately they've sussed him out as the carthorse bloater he is.
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Post by lordb on Feb 12, 2019 17:53:58 GMT
agreed, blaming Scholes & Cartwright for Hughes mistakes is just wrong however it wasn't Hughes who negotiated the sky high for Wimmer, that was Scholes It's difficult as there is an undeniable truth in that.
However with just the metrics of knowing how much we've spent and just what a load of old sh1te we got for such an outlay, the club is remiss.
And as far as I know, the club is, essentially run (or should be) by the CEO or whatever Teflon's title actually is.
So we're back to the old adage of "the buck stops..."
The trouble is, the man or men that should be holding that title holder to account, unbelievably seem happy that the system (or was it the "process"?) works.
Mmm.
Yes replace the words Scholes/Hughes/Cartwright/Rowett/Coates with the words Stoke City and it worth perfectly
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 13, 2019 11:34:57 GMT
www.sportbuzzer.de/artikel/kevin-wimmer-sein-bekenntnis-zu-hannover-96/Have you ever regretted Stoke City loaning you to 96?No. It would be nicer if we were higher up in the table. But we accept the situation and I feel very well anyway. For me it was definitely the right step! I will do everything we can to work our way down. In your loan contract it gets complicated with the purchase obligation clause and in how many uses 96 it must commit firm. Do you know what exactly is in the contract?I already know the content of my contract ... (grins) OK . But does the complicated situation burden you?
It does not stress or pressure me. I do not even think that I have to play so many games. I'm just trying to make as many games as possible, and I hope I can stay here then. That's exactly what I had already imagined before the season. I did not come here to be in Hanover for only one year and then leave again. I want to stay longer term, I feel comfortable here. But that's not all in my hands. The most important thing is that we stay in the league - if I can contribute to it with many games and good performances, so much the better. Are you in regular exchange with Stoke City?No, I do not have contact with Stoke at the moment. The purchase clause would be 12 million euros. Pretty much money. One or the other in the 96 environment says: too much for Kevin Wimmer. Does this happen to you personally?As a footballer, it's normal to hear that. Unfortunately, that's just the way it has shot up in England with the transfer fees. Sure, that's a lot of money, but we'll see. I would like to stay longer as I said. Maybe 96 can renegotiate yes ...
That's the way it is. There is certainly not the last word spoken, as it looks at the end of the season. I think both sides - me and Stoke - have a strong will to come to terms.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2019 11:57:35 GMT
We've got two choices a) Stoke take him back for the season 19-20. The new manager, who has absolutely no idea who Wimmer is, is thrilled to have a free addition with a central defender who allegedly has been known to be able to switch into midfield positions as well as, wait for it, left back. As the slimline Austrian settles into Jones' side, the manager comes to believe Wimmer is the bargain buy of the century, blissfully unaware that one of his predecessors in the job once paid €20M for him. b) Having managed to dodge the bullet contained within the loan contract, 96 have all the cards up their sleeves and are able to push Stoke to the limit of how much they believe Wimmer is worth. Aware that the club CEO dreads the sight of the defender, 96 offer a fee of €1. Scholes calls a conference, blows his trumpet, and says the clubs have learned from the transfer business, and with Wimmer gone, proclaims that the club is now free to climb up the table.
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Post by Northy on Feb 24, 2019 15:10:52 GMT
He's playing for Hannover v Dusseldorf now, on BT sport 3. Just had a tough tackle on the opposition and lucky to not get a yellow. He looks slimmer, the commentator just said he's happy at Hannover and would like to extend his stay.
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Post by kustokie on Feb 24, 2019 15:22:46 GMT
I agree but Wimmer was known to be Mark Hughes’ decision as was Imbula. GR signed a load of useless players in the summer and they were his decision. And yet people blame the recruitment team and complain the manager should pick the players when the managers have been culpable for the fuck ups as well (or completely responsible). And then the conspiracy theories start that well maybe the manager was only allowed to choose that player or GR was allowed to spent tens of millions but not on a defender. And it all becomes a bit ridiculous. So whilst I agree there needs to be a proper look at recruitment (and I don’t think an ex agent should be in a job a proper scout should be doing) the never ending witch hunt on this board has got to stop. A series of colossal fuck ups have been made by a number of people over a number of years and we now are where we are. But if we get him off our books and get a sum to reinvest in less of a useless bell end over the summer then I will look at that as a positive for the future rather than dwell on the errors of the past. agreed, blaming Scholes & Cartwright for Hughes mistakes is just wrong however it wasn't Hughes who negotiated the sky high for Wimmer, that was Scholes Unquestionably pound for pound Hughes worst signing. Hughes didn't negotiate the contract but he was responsible for identifying him as the answer to our CB problems after Huth left. So the buck stops with Hughes who is 100% responsible for wasting 18 million. It all comes down to not doing due diligence.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 18:56:26 GMT
He's playing for Hannover v Dusseldorf now, on BT sport 3. Just had a tough tackle on the opposition and lucky to not get a yellow. He looks slimmer, the commentator just said he's happy at Hannover and would like to extend his stay. He’ll probably be back there next season on loan as I can’t see us agreeing on a fee, €12m is already a massive loss for us, I think he’d actually be an upgrade on some of our current CB options so if it doesn’t happen with Hannover then I’d give him a chance next season. I suspect it’ll be another Imbula situation where he is loaned out for the rest of his time here. It seems we paid about £15m more than he is worth, £15m we will never see again.
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Post by lordb on Feb 24, 2019 19:33:17 GMT
agreed, blaming Scholes & Cartwright for Hughes mistakes is just wrong however it wasn't Hughes who negotiated the sky high for Wimmer, that was Scholes Unquestionably pound for pound Hughes worst signing. Hughes didn't negotiate the contract but he was responsible for identifying him as the answer to our CB problems after Huth left. So the buck stops with Hughes who is 100% responsible for wasting 18 million. It all comes down to not doing due diligence. Nearly agree with that except it was 100% Scholes who negotiated the fee.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 24, 2019 19:36:05 GMT
Looking at the table, there's every chance of them getting relegated.
So if he doesn't play the games necessary to trigger the clause (and the rumours seem to indicate he now won't), wouldn't tink they'd take him at a lesser fee if they're going down?
Best we can probably hope for is another German team taking him for about £3m?
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Post by stokesupporter on Feb 24, 2019 19:36:12 GMT
Wimmer should be OK in the championship so we might as well use him if loaning him out would be our only other option.
Amd no I'm not a Wimmer fan, just trying to be practical.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 24, 2019 20:16:43 GMT
Wimmer should be OK in the championship so we might as well use him if loaning him out would be our only other option. Amd no I'm not a Wimmer fan, just trying to be practical. Is there a championship PDSL league ?
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Post by AlliG on Feb 24, 2019 20:43:35 GMT
Wimmer should be OK in the championship so we might as well use him if loaning him out would be our only other option. Amd no I'm not a Wimmer fan, just trying to be practical. Why would a centre half who can't jump be OK in a league where more teams play a big centre forward than do so in the Premier League?
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 3, 2019 13:36:13 GMT
Another start for Wimmer, but he has to play 45 minutes in every league game remaining (which you wouldn't think they'd let happen if they've got any sense at all!)
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Post by Northy on Mar 3, 2019 14:44:34 GMT
1 down after 4 minutes, his other centre half didn't bother to move over and cover his man.
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