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Post by jimmygscfc on Feb 4, 2019 16:25:35 GMT
Not a chance in hell they'll play him in enough games. You'd think they never really intended to once they realised they were going to struggle. Bring him back and see what Jones makes of him. Williams will have gone, Ryan may have been shown the door and who knows what Indi will do. We may have to have him back, at the very least for the Summer and check him out.
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Post by chigstoke on Feb 4, 2019 16:28:51 GMT
Not a chance in hell they'll play him in enough games. You'd think they never really intended to once they realised they were going to struggle. Bring him back and see what Jones makes of him. Williams will have gone, Ryan may have been shown the door and who knows what Indi will do. We may have to have him back, at the very least for the Summer and check him out. Wasn't he quoted recently in a German paper as saying he never wants to play for Stoke again? Fair play to him if he can actually change his attitude, actually get fit and play well but I don't think he has it in him at all.
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Post by Old School Stokie on Feb 5, 2019 13:07:18 GMT
Get him back and see if Blackpool would take him - he could do donkey rides on the beach this summer.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Feb 5, 2019 13:20:47 GMT
Get him back and see if Blackpool would take him - he could do donkey rides on the beach this summer. Donkey rides? P&O could make use of Wimmer as a cross channel ferry.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 12, 2019 8:35:46 GMT
Speculation in Germany that as Hannover will probably now need to play Wimmer due to injury, they will try to renegotiate his automatically-triggered transfer fee (after 24 games) down. Seems sensible for all concerned. You can't expect another team to smash their transfer record for him. They'd sooner not play him than do that. £5m seems fair for everyone? fussball.news/artikel/akpoguma-ausfall-koennte-hannover-millionen-kosten/Hannover 96 won in their six-point relegation battle against Nuremberg 2-0. But the first victory under Thomas Doll came with a price. Kevin Akpoguma injured his shoulder and will miss the rest of the season. That could cost the Lower Saxony club millions. As the first replacement for their loaned defender is Wimmer. The Austrian was already used from the bench against Nuremberg. The 26-year-old only plays for Hannover on loan. However, as is known since December Hannover must commit to him permanently after 24 competitive match operations and pay twelve million euros. For comparison: The current record transfer of Hannover, striker Jonathas, is nine million euros. Renegotiations? Wimmer is currently at 16 games. And clearly ahead of his competitors Josip Elez and Felipe, who have not made it into the 18-man matchday squad under Doll. The Bild newspaper reported logically that the new coach wants to absorb the failure of Akpoguma with the former professional of 1.FC Cologne. But for Hanover that is quite dangerous. Therefore, the tabloid sheet assumes that manager Horst Heldt will soon start renegotiations with Stoke City to push the transfer fee down. However, the English second division paid in 2017 even close to 20 million euro. How realistic an accommodation there seems there is questionable.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 8:37:37 GMT
Speculation in Germany that as Hannover will probably now need to play Wimmer due to injury, they will try to renegotiate his automatically-triggered transfer fee (after 24 games) down. Seems sensible for all concerned. You can't expect another team to smash their transfer record for him. They'd sooner not play him than do that. £5m seems fair for everyone? fussball.news/artikel/akpoguma-ausfall-koennte-hannover-millionen-kosten/Hannover 96 won in their six-point relegation battle against Nuremberg 2-0. But the first victory under Thomas Doll came with a price. Kevin Akpoguma injured his shoulder and will miss the rest of the season. That could cost the Lower Saxony club millions. As the first replacement for their loaned defender is Wimmer. The Austrian was already used from the bench against Nuremberg. The 26-year-old only plays for Hannover on loan. However, as is known since December Hannovr must commit to him permanently after 24 competitive match operations and pay twelve million euros. For comparison: The current record transfer of Hannover, striker Jonathas, is nine million euros. Renegotiations? Wimmer is currently at 16 games. And clearly ahead of his competitors Josip Elez and Felipe, who have not made it into the 18-man matchday squad under Doll. The Bild newspaper reported logically that the new coach wants to absorb the failure of Akpoguma with the former professional of 1.FC Cologne. But for Hanover that is quite dangerous. Therefore, the tabloid sheet assumes that manager Horst Heldt will soon start renegotiations with Stoke City to push the transfer fee down. However, the English second division paid in 2017 even close to 20 million euro. How realistic an accommodation there seems there is questionable. Is luck finally turning in our favour?!
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Post by neddy on Feb 12, 2019 8:44:14 GMT
Speculation in Germany that as Hannover will probably now need to play Wimmer due to injury, they will try to renegotiate his automatically-triggered transfer fee (after 24 games) down. Seems sensible for all concerned. You can't expect another team to smash their transfer record for him. They'd sooner not play him than do that. £5m seems fair for everyone? fussball.news/artikel/akpoguma-ausfall-koennte-hannover-millionen-kosten/Hannover 96 won in their six-point relegation battle against Nuremberg 2-0. But the first victory under Thomas Doll came with a price. Kevin Akpoguma injured his shoulder and will miss the rest of the season. That could cost the Lower Saxony club millions. As the first replacement for their loaned defender is Wimmer. The Austrian was already used from the bench against Nuremberg. The 26-year-old only plays for Hannover on loan. However, as is known since December Hannover must commit to him permanently after 24 competitive match operations and pay twelve million euros. For comparison: The current record transfer of Hannover, striker Jonathas, is nine million euros. Renegotiations? Wimmer is currently at 16 games. And clearly ahead of his competitors Josip Elez and Felipe, who have not made it into the 18-man matchday squad under Doll. The Bild newspaper reported logically that the new coach wants to absorb the failure of Akpoguma with the former professional of 1.FC Cologne. But for Hanover that is quite dangerous. Therefore, the tabloid sheet assumes that manager Horst Heldt will soon start renegotiations with Stoke City to push the transfer fee down. However, the English second division paid in 2017 even close to 20 million euro. How realistic an accommodation there seems there is questionable. If they picked the phone up now I would definitely negotiate a discount to ensure he plays the games and trigger the purchase.....it would be madness not to? Try £10m first? Could always come down? The crucial thing is to agree something to get the games played .
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Post by realstokebloke on Feb 12, 2019 8:47:21 GMT
Speculation in Germany that as Hannover will probably now need to play Wimmer due to injury, they will try to renegotiate his automatically-triggered transfer fee (after 24 games) down. Seems sensible for all concerned. You can't expect another team to smash their transfer record for him. They'd sooner not play him than do that. £5m seems fair for everyone? fussball.news/artikel/akpoguma-ausfall-koennte-hannover-millionen-kosten/Hannover 96 won in their six-point relegation battle against Nuremberg 2-0. But the first victory under Thomas Doll came with a price. Kevin Akpoguma injured his shoulder and will miss the rest of the season. That could cost the Lower Saxony club millions. As the first replacement for their loaned defender is Wimmer. The Austrian was already used from the bench against Nuremberg. The 26-year-old only plays for Hannover on loan. However, as is known since December Hannovr must commit to him permanently after 24 competitive match operations and pay twelve million euros. For comparison: The current record transfer of Hannover, striker Jonathas, is nine million euros. Renegotiations? Wimmer is currently at 16 games. And clearly ahead of his competitors Josip Elez and Felipe, who have not made it into the 18-man matchday squad under Doll. The Bild newspaper reported logically that the new coach wants to absorb the failure of Akpoguma with the former professional of 1.FC Cologne. But for Hanover that is quite dangerous. Therefore, the tabloid sheet assumes that manager Horst Heldt will soon start renegotiations with Stoke City to push the transfer fee down. However, the English second division paid in 2017 even close to 20 million euro. How realistic an accommodation there seems there is questionable. Is luck finally turning in our favour?! Take the point that we might, finally, get rid but...
Only at Stoke could we reasonably describe a potential £13m loss as lucky.
We've become used to failure.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 12, 2019 8:47:57 GMT
Wimmer=Wolly. Useless.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 8:49:43 GMT
Is luck finally turning in our favour?! Take the point that we might, finally, get rid but...
Only at Stoke could we reasonably describe a potential £13m loss as lucky.
We've become used to failure. It happened. It was shit. But time to move on now and just get him off the books.
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Post by realstokebloke on Feb 12, 2019 8:57:47 GMT
Take the point that we might, finally, get rid but...
Only at Stoke could we reasonably describe a potential £13m loss as lucky.
We've become used to failure. It happened. It was shit. But time to move on now and just get him off the books. Totally agree. Point being though that there is an undeniable trend here - and that must have a cause.
As a club we need to identify it and remove or solve it.
Otherwise, logic suggets shit will keep on happening.
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Post by Absolution on Feb 12, 2019 8:59:37 GMT
I said a few weeks back that we should draw a line under the whole sorry Wimmer/Imbula/Ndiaye affair and accept £5m for each of them.
In the case of Wimmer, if we can re-negotiate the fee then we can re-negotiate all the terms and tell them we want x amount on a compulory sale at the end of the season, irrespective of how many games he now plays - there's no point basing it on games played because you just know his hamstring will ping with one game to go.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 12, 2019 9:00:21 GMT
Speculation in Germany that as Hannover will probably now need to play Wimmer due to injury, they will try to renegotiate his automatically-triggered transfer fee (after 24 games) down. Seems sensible for all concerned. You can't expect another team to smash their transfer record for him. They'd sooner not play him than do that. £5m seems fair for everyone? fussball.news/artikel/akpoguma-ausfall-koennte-hannover-millionen-kosten/Hannover 96 won in their six-point relegation battle against Nuremberg 2-0. But the first victory under Thomas Doll came with a price. Kevin Akpoguma injured his shoulder and will miss the rest of the season. That could cost the Lower Saxony club millions. As the first replacement for their loaned defender is Wimmer. The Austrian was already used from the bench against Nuremberg. The 26-year-old only plays for Hannover on loan. However, as is known since December Hannover must commit to him permanently after 24 competitive match operations and pay twelve million euros. For comparison: The current record transfer of Hannover, striker Jonathas, is nine million euros. Renegotiations? Wimmer is currently at 16 games. And clearly ahead of his competitors Josip Elez and Felipe, who have not made it into the 18-man matchday squad under Doll. The Bild newspaper reported logically that the new coach wants to absorb the failure of Akpoguma with the former professional of 1.FC Cologne. But for Hanover that is quite dangerous. Therefore, the tabloid sheet assumes that manager Horst Heldt will soon start renegotiations with Stoke City to push the transfer fee down. However, the English second division paid in 2017 even close to 20 million euro. How realistic an accommodation there seems there is questionable. Given the money we've wasted splashing out another £5m to get rid seems OK.
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Post by Absolution on Feb 12, 2019 9:03:16 GMT
Is luck finally turning in our favour?! Take the point that we might, finally, get rid but...
Only at Stoke could we reasonably describe a potential £13m loss as lucky.
We've become used to failure. I'm sure I read in the Sentinel that we'd only paid the initial fee of £13m with the rest to be paid if certain clauses were met. If that's the case and we could get them to part with say £7m, a loss of £6m starts to look positively mouth watering.
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Post by jarvinski on Feb 12, 2019 9:04:49 GMT
Can we sell him? Goldenhill Wanderers were after him but the £50 transfer fee put them off
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 12, 2019 9:06:53 GMT
Take the point that we might, finally, get rid but...
Only at Stoke could we reasonably describe a potential £13m loss as lucky.
We've become used to failure. I'm sure I read in the Sentinel that we'd only paid the initial fee of £13m with the rest to be paid if certain clauses were met. If that's the case and we could get them to part with say £7m, a loss of £6m starts to look positively mouth watering. £15m apparently. Better than 18 at least! www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-kevin-wimmer-2296600Wimmer cost Stoke an initial £15m when he was brought in by Mark Hughes from Tottenham at the start of last season – and will not trigger £3m in additional clauses.
Stoke managed to secure a £1m loan deal and Hannover are covering all his wages. The defender confirmed repeatedly that he wants to stay in Germany. That hope has been widely echoed.
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Post by Absolution on Feb 12, 2019 9:08:27 GMT
I'm sure I read in the Sentinel that we'd only paid the initial fee of £13m with the rest to be paid if certain clauses were met. If that's the case and we could get them to part with say £7m, a loss of £6m starts to look positively mouth watering. £15m apparently. Better than 18 at least! www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-kevin-wimmer-2296600Wimmer cost Stoke an initial £15m when he was brought in by Mark Hughes from Tottenham at the start of last season – and will not trigger £3m in additional clauses.
Stoke managed to secure a £1m loan deal and Hannover are covering all his wages. The defender confirmed repeatedly that he wants to stay in Germany. That hope has been widely echoed.Cheers FM. I knew there was a 3 in there somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 9:14:05 GMT
It happened. It was shit. But time to move on now and just get him off the books. Totally agree. Point being though that there is an undeniable trend here - and that must have a cause.
As a club we need to identify it and remove or solve it.
Otherwise, logic suggets shit will keep on happening. I agree but Wimmer was known to be Mark Hughes’ decision as was Imbula. GR signed a load of useless players in the summer and they were his decision. And yet people blame the recruitment team and complain the manager should pick the players when the managers have been culpable for the fuck ups as well (or completely responsible). And then the conspiracy theories start that well maybe the manager was only allowed to choose that player or GR was allowed to spent tens of millions but not on a defender. And it all becomes a bit ridiculous. So whilst I agree there needs to be a proper look at recruitment (and I don’t think an ex agent should be in a job a proper scout should be doing) the never ending witch hunt on this board has got to stop. A series of colossal fuck ups have been made by a number of people over a number of years and we now are where we are. But if we get him off our books and get a sum to reinvest in less of a useless bell end over the summer then I will look at that as a positive for the future rather than dwell on the errors of the past.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Feb 12, 2019 9:33:19 GMT
What does Wimmer have left on his contract though? Surely Hannover couldn't continue to pay his wages at his present rate?
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Post by Absolution on Feb 12, 2019 9:35:57 GMT
Totally agree. Point being though that there is an undeniable trend here - and that must have a cause.
As a club we need to identify it and remove or solve it.
Otherwise, logic suggets shit will keep on happening. I agree but Wimmer was known to be Mark Hughes’ decision as was Imbula. GR signed a load of useless players in the summer and they were his decision. And yet people blame the recruitment team and complain the manager should pick the players when the managers have been culpable for the fuck ups as well (or completely responsible). And then the conspiracy theories start that well maybe the manager was only allowed to choose that player or GR was allowed to spent tens of millions but not on a defender. And it all becomes a bit ridiculous. So whilst I agree there needs to be a proper look at recruitment (and I don’t think an ex agent should be in a job a proper scout should be doing) the never ending witch hunt on this board has got to stop. A series of colossal fuck ups have been made by a number of people over a number of years and we now are where we are. But if we get him off our books and get a sum to reinvest in less of a useless bell end over the summer then I will look at that as a positive for the future rather than dwell on the errors of the past. I think we're all floundering around trying to find who to blame for which fuck-up. But even if Wimmer and Imbula were 'scouted' and wanted by Hughes, the CEO must have ratified the deals. Surely with Wimmer in particular, someone should have said "Hang on, we're dealing with Levy again here and he's asking for 4 times what Spurs paid for a player they don't use. Is there a rat to be smelt here?" There's too much gone badly wrong for the blame just to rest with the managers. I mean Ndiaye, how can we part with £15m for a player only to see him basically return to the club we got him from for free a few months later?
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 12, 2019 9:38:20 GMT
What does Wimmer have left on his contract though? Surely Hannover couldn't continue to pay his wages at his present rate? 3.5 yrs. But if he's had a 40-50% wage drop like the rest of 'em, you'd think they could. That's what I'm clinging to with Imbula too. Maybe most of them are now shiftable if we take a hit on the fee. The harder-to-shift ones may prove to be the Rowett mob (and obviously Saido)?
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Post by realstokebloke on Feb 12, 2019 9:55:34 GMT
Totally agree. Point being though that there is an undeniable trend here - and that must have a cause.
As a club we need to identify it and remove or solve it.
Otherwise, logic suggets shit will keep on happening. I agree but Wimmer was known to be Mark Hughes’ decision as was Imbula. GR signed a load of useless players in the summer and they were his decision. And yet people blame the recruitment team and complain the manager should pick the players when the managers have been culpable for the fuck ups as well (or completely responsible). And then the conspiracy theories start that well maybe the manager was only allowed to choose that player or GR was allowed to spent tens of millions but not on a defender. And it all becomes a bit ridiculous. So whilst I agree there needs to be a proper look at recruitment (and I don’t think an ex agent should be in a job a proper scout should be doing) the never ending witch hunt on this board has got to stop. A series of colossal fuck ups have been made by a number of people over a number of years and we now are where we are. But if we get him off our books and get a sum to reinvest in less of a useless bell end over the summer then I will look at that as a positive for the future rather than dwell on the errors of the past. I both agree and disagree with your motion to dismiss 86.
Yes, let's get the useless fookers out if the door and breathe a sigh of relief when they are gone.
But at least let's acknowledge that something, somewhere has been and maybe, still is, very wrong.
Two simple facts alone bear this out.
One, the quite astonishing amount spent over the prem years. I forget the actual £ but it's both surprising in that it places us in and amongst some of the giants of world club football and eye watering in terms of the figure itself and wrt the value we have (not) received for all that spent.
Two, that our three most expensive signings are out on loan playing for someone else and are, to a greater or lesser degree, doing so at our expense.
So just marking that down to individuals and a succession of individual mistakes doesn't, to me, do it justice. As I say, there's a trend here.
And if I was the Chairman signing the cheques I'm not sure I be happy with that as justification.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 10:03:23 GMT
I agree but Wimmer was known to be Mark Hughes’ decision as was Imbula. GR signed a load of useless players in the summer and they were his decision. And yet people blame the recruitment team and complain the manager should pick the players when the managers have been culpable for the fuck ups as well (or completely responsible). And then the conspiracy theories start that well maybe the manager was only allowed to choose that player or GR was allowed to spent tens of millions but not on a defender. And it all becomes a bit ridiculous. So whilst I agree there needs to be a proper look at recruitment (and I don’t think an ex agent should be in a job a proper scout should be doing) the never ending witch hunt on this board has got to stop. A series of colossal fuck ups have been made by a number of people over a number of years and we now are where we are. But if we get him off our books and get a sum to reinvest in less of a useless bell end over the summer then I will look at that as a positive for the future rather than dwell on the errors of the past. I both agree and disagree with your motion to dismiss 86.
Yes, let's get the useless fookers out if the door and breathe a sigh of relief when they are gone.
But at least let's acknowledge that something, somewhere has been and maybe, still is, very wrong.
Two simple facts alone bear this out.
One, the quite astonishing amount spent over the prem years. I forget the actual £ but it's both surprising in that it places us in and amongst some of the giants of world club football and eye watering in terms of the figure itself and wrt the value we have (not) received for all that spent.
Two, that our three most expensive signings are out on loan playing for someone else and are, to a greater or lesser degree, doing so at our expense.
So just marking that down to individuals and a succession of individual mistakes doesn't, to me, do it justice. As I say, there's a trend here.
And if I was the Chairman signing the cheques I'm not sure I be happy with that as justification.
I don't disgaree with you at all. I did acknowledge something has gone wrong. Just never thought we'd shift him and I'm just glad one of the useless fuckwits off the books :-) you'd hope they've now finally woken up what they've done. I can't see Paul Hart and NJ being pushovers and not knowing what they want so I'm interested to see what will happen over the summer.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Feb 12, 2019 10:07:02 GMT
What is wrong with him is he's wank and doesn't give a fuck.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 12, 2019 10:41:11 GMT
Sod um, they agreed the deal in the first place, you can't go back on it now because you might have to play him.
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Post by DC1863 on Feb 12, 2019 11:02:57 GMT
Am I missing something or are they not contractually obliged to pay if they reach the amount of games? We've suffered because of our terrible business deals, so should they, I'd say no renegotiation they've made their bed now let them lie in it. If they're insistent on renegotiation and we're willing to do so then let's not trim the price too much, it's about time we stood our ground.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 12, 2019 11:06:51 GMT
Am I missing something or are they not contractually obliged to pay if they reach the amount of games? We've suffered because of our terrible business deals, so should they, I'd say no renegotiation they've made their bed now let them lie in it. If they're insistent on renegotiation and we're willing to do so then let's not trim the price too much, it's about time we stood our ground. They are - but suppose the fear is if the fee is prohibitive, they just won't let him hit the 24-game mark and just play someone else. However desperate you are, would you break your club record by a distance on Wimmer (who even now is just a back-up centre-half there) especially if there was a chance you'd be relegated anyway? Whereas if we were to reduce it, we could maybe guarantee his exit?
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Post by basingstokie on Feb 12, 2019 11:09:26 GMT
Am I missing something or are they not contractually obliged to pay if they reach the amount of games? We've suffered because of our terrible business deals, so should they, I'd say no renegotiation they've made their bed now let them lie in it. If they're insistent on renegotiation and we're willing to do so then let's not trim the price too much, it's about time we stood our ground. And given he is still young any reduction in fee linked to a hefty sell on clause - not just %age of profit hanover make but we get the first £Xm (basically whatever we drop price by) + a percentage of their profit.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 12, 2019 11:39:46 GMT
He's not very good. Just like all our other defenders. Yeah but we barely spunked 18m combined on them! Another treasure from our transfer team, well done lads proud of you. You really are a great assett to SCFC. That one signing alone should be enough for heads to roll in the transfer team whether the manager wanted him or not. A disgrace. But lets keep ignoring the problem.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 12, 2019 11:44:05 GMT
He's not very good. Just like all our other defenders. Yeah but we barely spunked 18m combined on them! Another treasure from our transfer team, well done lads proud of you. You really are a great assett to SCFC. That one signing alone should be enough for heads to roll in the transfer team whether the manager wanted him or not. A disgrace. But lets keep ignoring the problem. Hughes was adamant he wanted him (and Berahino) To be fair to the 'transfer team', surely you've got to ultimately get the players the manager wants if they take the job on that basis? www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-news-cartwright-1569418The club’s top brass will also insist that it was Hughes pushing longest and hardest for £18m Kevin Wimmer at a time last August when, by common consent, a striker and not a centre-half was the more crucial acquisition for the Potters.
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