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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 10:53:31 GMT
Sounded as if they were hopeful of Adam being fit for Wigan judging by Jones' comments. I'd stick with the back 4, apart from Clucas. Bojan v Ince is going to be debated 'til the cows come home, but one of 'em needs a run as it can't be a case of one for you, then one for him. Up front, wouldn't argue with any of Berahino/Afobe/Diouf, but I'd go Diouf if fit. Butland Edwards Batth BMI Bauer Adam Allen Etebo Ince Vokes Diouf Charlie had better not come back and get sent off! Wigan did a great job of winding Williams up and can see them trying it with Charlie too. Be just our bloody luck wouldn't it.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 11, 2019 10:55:20 GMT
Sounded as if they were hopeful of Adam being fit for Wigan judging by Jones' comments. I'd stick with the back 4, apart from Clucas. Bojan v Ince is going to be debated 'til the cows come home, but one of 'em needs a run as it can't be a case of one for you, then one for him. Up front, wouldn't argue with any of Berahino/Afobe/Diouf, but I'd go Diouf if fit. Butland Edwards Batth BMI Bauer Adam Allen Etebo Ince Vokes Diouf Diouf, if fit? Is he injured do you know, FM? No idea. Haven't heard anything to suggest he is - and he was certainly fit when he scored a hat-trick and played 90 minutes a fortnight ago for the U23s! Just a bit confused how he can't get in the 18 when Jones is clearly including some wasters on the bench begrudgingly!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 11:49:03 GMT
Berahino did enough for a starting opportunity in my view so him at the point and Vokes and Diouf up top
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Post by berahinosgoals on Feb 11, 2019 11:55:23 GMT
If it has been successful for him and he's good at it then he has to stick with it. You can't just bin it off because it hasn't worked instantly, the players are obviously struggling to adapt, he's learning on the job which can and which can't.
Genuinely embarrassed by how little patience sections of the support have.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 12:28:30 GMT
If it has been successful for him and he's good at it then he has to stick with it. You can't just bin it off because it hasn't worked instantly, the players are obviously struggling to adapt, he's learning on the job which can and which can't. Genuinely embarrassed by how little patience sections of the support have. The lack of patience amongst our fans is crazy but we've been in decline for so long it's understandable. What NJ really needs is to pick up some results. It doesn't have to be pretty to start with but he has to find a way to grind out results with the players at his disposal. If he can't do that then he won't be given the time to do the longer term job we all want to see him do, he will suffer the same fate as Rowett.
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MooG
Youth Player
Only the wisest and stupidest of men never change.
Posts: 492
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Post by MooG on Feb 11, 2019 12:49:57 GMT
The problem is the attitude of many of our players - or at least that they're not living up to their reputation.
In theory I'd say we only need two new players for the diamond - an attacking left back (and I'd be amazed if Jones doesn't look to Luton in the summer) and EITHER a defensive midfielder to play at the base of the diamond OR a mobile centre-back so our defence doesn't need as much protection and we could get away with Woods or even Adam.
However in the real world BMI has been ropey this season (though better against Brom), Woods is out of form (I hope - as the alternative is he's rubbish), neither Bojan or Ince have been great as the tip, Afobe appears to have fallen down a disused well and Berahino still doesn't look like scoring anything like enough goals.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Feb 11, 2019 13:08:19 GMT
If it has been successful for him and he's good at it then he has to stick with it. You can't just bin it off because it hasn't worked instantly, the players are obviously struggling to adapt, he's learning on the job which can and which can't. Genuinely embarrassed by how little patience sections of the support have. The lack of patience amongst our fans is crazy but we've been in decline for so long it's understandable. What NJ really needs is to pick up some results. It doesn't have to be pretty to start with but he has to find a way to grind out results with the players at his disposal. If he can't do that then he won't be given the time to do the longer term job we all want to see him do, he will suffer the same fate as Rowett. and then they will appoint someone else from the same stable to do the same, it's pointless. I think we've missed our last chance of premiership proven manager. Klopp or guardiola were not instantly successful at lfc & man city, it takes time to implement a philosophy. Guardoola at one point thought he might lose his job. It's going to be 18 month before we see a big difference. Next season after the summer window will also see an improvement if Barry and Paul are either fucked off or keep their noses out
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Post by neddy on Feb 14, 2019 7:24:16 GMT
Interesting he changed his favoured system last night?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 7:26:29 GMT
Interesting he changed his favoured system last night? Hopefully he's come to the conclusion it's not suitable for this bunch if we're going to get out of this bad run
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Post by 11wilkosinateam on Feb 14, 2019 7:28:16 GMT
For the players we have at the moment we he to be playing a 4-2-3-1
Butland
Bauer Batth Bruno Clucas
Adam Allen
Ince Bojan McClean
Vokes
Gives us both width and the ability to attack down the middle
Gets Bojan and Ince in their preferred positions
Also McClean will protect Clucas more
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Post by berahinosgoals on Feb 14, 2019 8:29:33 GMT
For the players we have at the moment we he to be playing a 4-2-3-1 Butland Bauer Batth Bruno Clucas Adam Allen Ince Bojan McClean Vokes Gives us both width and the ability to attack down the middle Gets Bojan and Ince in their preferred positions Also McClean will protect Clucas more Don't see why 343/523 wb wouldn't work McLean & Bauer wb with both Berahino & afobe either side of vokes 523wb becomes 343 becomes 325
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 14, 2019 9:50:10 GMT
For the players we have at the moment we he to be playing a 4-2-3-1 Butland Bauer Batth Bruno Clucas Adam Allen Ince Bojan McClean Vokes Gives us both width and the ability to attack down the middle Gets Bojan and Ince in their preferred positions Also McClean will protect Clucas more Don't see why 343/523 wb wouldn't work McLean & Bauer wb with both Berahino & afobe either side of vokes 523wb becomes 343 becomes 325 I will say it for millionth time, and in agreement with you, 3-5-2 suits these players best. No hanging Vokes out to dry, pace out wide and more balance to the midfield. The one time we have the players for it, and the new boss likes the diamond!
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Post by berahinosgoals on Feb 14, 2019 9:54:30 GMT
Don't see why 343/523 wb wouldn't work McLean & Bauer wb with both Berahino & afobe either side of vokes 523wb becomes 343 becomes 325 I will say it for millionth time, and in agreement with you, 3-5-2 suits these players best. No hanging Vokes out to dry, pace out wide and more balance to the midfield. The one time we have the players for it, and the new boss likes the diamond! I think he's got to stick with it if he intends to use it as long as we have enough points on the board, then come summer and a preseason we should know who we want go keep and who we don't to move forward to next season. However if he's changing it it makes perfect sense
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 14, 2019 10:00:48 GMT
I will say it for millionth time, and in agreement with you, 3-5-2 suits these players best. No hanging Vokes out to dry, pace out wide and more balance to the midfield. The one time we have the players for it, and the new boss likes the diamond! I think he's got to stick with it if he intends to use it as long as we have enough points on the board, then come summer and a preseason we should know who we want go keep and who we don't to move forward to next season. However if he's changing it it makes perfect sense Oh, I think he will get it right, I just don't like shoehorning players into a preferred system, rather than playing to their strengths.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 10:31:52 GMT
I think he's got to stick with it if he intends to use it as long as we have enough points on the board, then come summer and a preseason we should know who we want go keep and who we don't to move forward to next season. However if he's changing it it makes perfect sense Oh, I think he will get it right, I just don't like shoehorning players into a preferred system, rather than playing to their strengths. I wonder if the 3-5-2 might make a return when Charlie is back. You need someone who can put in some longer passes and switch it out to the wings. It worked well against Leeds because he was doing just that. Without him I do wonder whether it wouldn't be any better than what he's been doing. Especially has you're essentially having to sacrifice one of the attacking players to add another CB.
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Post by neddy on Feb 15, 2019 15:20:14 GMT
Well will he play the diamond again tomorrow given he changed at half time the other night?
I think he will........
Butland
Bauer Indi Batth Clucas
Adam Etobo Allen Bojan or Ince
Vokes Berahinho
Thoughts?
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Post by Veritas on Feb 16, 2019 8:34:06 GMT
I can't see Berahino starting and I would go with Bojan over Ince but with the exception of Edwards I expect to see same starting XI as at Wigan
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 16, 2019 9:22:44 GMT
I guess NJ will persist with his diamond so for me I'd play this team this afternoon:
......................Butland........................ Bauer.........Batth............Indi..........Clucas .......................Adam......................... ......Ince..............................Etebo....... .......................Allen........................ ................Diouf........Vokes..................
Federici, Shawcross, Edwards, Woods, McClean, Afobe, Berahino.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 9:23:26 GMT
Berahino has to start
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Post by Godo on Feb 16, 2019 9:33:09 GMT
Berahino has to start.....turning up on time for training. I agree with the managers approach that attitude and character are critical in the playing squad if we want this decline to be reversed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 9:41:21 GMT
Berahino has to start.....turning up on time for training. I agree with the managers approach that attitude and character are critical in the playing squad if we want this decline to be reversed. Late for dinner a few times was what Philips said,good job you didn't have the same standards for Fuller, he'd never have got a game
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Post by tony1234 on Feb 16, 2019 9:59:24 GMT
In terms of missing players for the diamond - i think its needs energy everywhere for the very simple reason that people are naturally further apart then they might be. There is a ruddy great hole in the middle of it. And there is no width. (Sorry, am not fan!). Good article here on the Diamond, or otherwise termed "the Dying formation". It needs a really great #10 and then heaps of energy footballbh.net/2018/02/27/4-1-2-1-2-diamond/The forwards are not "lumpesque" Vokes sorts but rather highly mobile, which makes Vokes an odd choice. Seems the goto guy for a long ball 442 - winning knock downs from deep balls, and equally playing off runs from Afobe. I'm presuming managers must spot what we can't about Bojan - its not just us, but injury, etc means he has only played more than 20 league games twice since 2011. So for the second half of the season, it has to be a case of proving Bojan can do it OR that would be the key position #1 to fill. The other one for me is the base of the diamond. Unless Woods or Allen stake a place then there is position 2. OR maybe N'Diaye changes heart?! (cough splutter) Am relatively Okay with back 4. The MF is the critical bit. I cant see NJ's plan for Vokes + Afobe upfront except noting that Maclean is used and that can only be for pace. So perhaps #3 in summer is a fast forward with Afobe being moved on if possible. To fund all this of course, the only 1 option is to sell Butland and Allen - which creates more holes! So we are looking at 5 in in the summer. Fletcher going and i suspect Adam going too means we are looking at 2xCMs not 1 to cover this gap too, making 6. If NJ decided to fill the gaps of AM and CDM with his Luton crop by the way, we'd be looking at Andrew Shinnie (or Elliot Lee) and Glen Rea respectively in the summer. Loans though are going to have to play a bigger role with all the spaces to fill. We can't get another Cuco to spend a dozen games proving to the manager he is shit and a waste of a precious space. Half suspect Williams will get a year or two's deal (Oh joy) out of expedience.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 16, 2019 10:22:19 GMT
Probably guess he'll stick with the diamond again, despite the early shift at Wigan.
Looks like the same XI apart from Bauer for Edwards, and probably Adam on the bench, although a chance he could start him for Woods.
Interesting to see who drops off the bench to make way for presumably Sorensen (or Tymon) as the club-developed player if there's no Edwards. Maybe Shawcross or Williams?
Little bit surprising that Berahino has just got the first half at Brentford and the 8 or 9 minutes against West Brom, but guessing he hasn't made much of an impression off the pitch?
And God knows what the story is with Diouf, especially in the context of the people he's competing with and the appalling lack of goals.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 16, 2019 10:35:53 GMT
Probably guess he'll stick with the diamond again, despite the early shift at Wigan. Looks like the same XI apart from Bauer for Edwards, and probably Adam on the bench, although a chance he could start him for Woods. Interesting to see who drops off the bench to make way for presumably Sorensen (or Tymon) as the club-developed player if there's no Edwards. Maybe Shawcross or Williams? Little bit surprising that Berahino has just got the first half at Brentford and the 8 or 9 minutes against West Brom, but guessing he hasn't made much of an impression off the pitch? And God knows what the story is with Diouf, especially in the context of the people he's competing with and the appalling lack of goals. Looks like Edwards may be ok
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Post by march4 on Feb 16, 2019 10:41:52 GMT
He has to stick to the diamond.
These players need a system. They haven’t had one for four years and look at what has happened to us.
I applaud NJ’s attempts to introduce his favoured system.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 16, 2019 10:43:01 GMT
Probably guess he'll stick with the diamond again, despite the early shift at Wigan. Looks like the same XI apart from Bauer for Edwards, and probably Adam on the bench, although a chance he could start him for Woods. Interesting to see who drops off the bench to make way for presumably Sorensen (or Tymon) as the club-developed player if there's no Edwards. Maybe Shawcross or Williams? Little bit surprising that Berahino has just got the first half at Brentford and the 8 or 9 minutes against West Brom, but guessing he hasn't made much of an impression off the pitch? And God knows what the story is with Diouf, especially in the context of the people he's competing with and the appalling lack of goals. Looks like Edwards may be ok If he's travelled, he must be okay to play then. Pleased about that as he is the best option there going forward. But Jones did mention concussion, and isn't that meant to be an automatic 6-day rest?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 16, 2019 10:47:09 GMT
Looks like Edwards may be ok If he's travelled, he must be okay to play then. Pleased about that as he is the best option there going forward. But Jones did mention concussion, and isn't that meant to be an automatic 6-day rest? Not sure how it works FM but like you say if he’s travelled surely he starts
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 10:58:53 GMT
He has to stick to the diamond. These players need a system. They haven’t had one for four years and look at what has happened to us. I applaud NJ’s attempts to introduce his favoured system. and yet he keeps changing it,the diamond only lasted 15 minutes at Wigan.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 11:09:58 GMT
Stick with it, it'll get there, and there's no downside this year because we can't reach any worthwhile milestones like the playoffs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 11:17:29 GMT
Stick with it, it'll get there, and there's no downside this year because we can't reach any worthwhile milestones like the playoffs. There is a downside,if results continue as they are and the losing mentality around the club becomes even more ingrained it's going to be harder to pull out of it.....and the lower we finish in the table the harder it will be to entice the players he wants in the summer.
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