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Post by claudinho on Jan 18, 2019 4:50:54 GMT
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Post by trincostokie on Jan 18, 2019 5:50:37 GMT
What we'd all give for an even half-way similar trajectory... |
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Post by Danstoke82 on Jan 18, 2019 8:27:22 GMT
This is exactly how a club should be run. I have a lot of time for Dortmund. Superb club.
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Post by staffsvilla on Jan 18, 2019 9:04:12 GMT
This is exactly how a club should be run. I have a lot of time for Dortmund. Superb club. Can see what your saying but as someone who used to go to BVB on a regular basis in the 80's its still a mystery to me how a team that has an average attendance of 80,000 can't maximise income and marketing to enable them to be a position where they don't have to sell their best players on a regular basis!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 10:01:44 GMT
That needs a very good scouting system.
Ours is shit
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Post by citynickscfc on Jan 18, 2019 10:12:31 GMT
That needs a very good scouting system. Ours is shit What do you mean? Jeff and Jim both local, watch our local leagues every weekend! |
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Post by dadofsam on Jan 18, 2019 10:47:49 GMT
I think that's not far off the "sustainability" model that Coates bought into. It's failed because the quality of our backroom staff isn't up to it.
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Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Jan 18, 2019 11:14:52 GMT
The Pulis Document c 2013.
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Post by elystokie on Jan 18, 2019 12:12:02 GMT
The Pulis Document c 2013. Which also, according to some, contained the answer to world hunger and brexit amongst other things... |
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Post by djduncanjames on Jan 18, 2019 12:18:02 GMT
The Dossier! Was thinking about this the other day 😂🤣
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Post by DC1863 on Jan 18, 2019 12:28:56 GMT
These clubs are basically operating in the same way that Football Manager players have played the game for the last 10+ years. Obviously it's real life with real people and money being traded but it's not exactly a new concept.
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Post by marshescontactlens on Jan 18, 2019 12:30:44 GMT
Brentford have gone down a similar route. Scrapped their academy and are identifying players that may have been discarded by other teams that have the potential to be improved, prove their worth to Brentford and be sold at a profit.
Puts our recruitment and transfer spend to shame.
For all our £190 million spend, our outgoing transfer fees are shocking.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 18, 2019 12:38:59 GMT
That needs a very good scouting system. Ours is shit How can you say that??? They're up fenton park every sunday morning!!!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 13:17:08 GMT
That needs a very good scouting system. Ours is shit How can you say that??? They're up fenton park every sunday morning!!! We wouldn't know a good footballer if he wore a shirt with Messi on the back and answered to the name Lionel |
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Post by miggoscfc on Jan 18, 2019 13:27:15 GMT
This is exactly how a club should be run. I have a lot of time for Dortmund. Superb club. Can see what your saying but as someone who used to go to BVB on a regular basis in the 80's its still a mystery to me how a team that has an average attendance of 80,000 can't maximise income and marketing to enable them to be a position where they don't have to sell their best players on a regular basis!! They have a higher crowd but at a very competitive price they are also shrewd with signings but pay a higher wage and signing on fee so despite being a big name in football their actual turnaover is reletively low in comparison to teams their size in other countries and its the selling that allows them to continue operating shrewdly and not passing any cost to supporters by increasing ticket prices. They could become a super power but it would be at the fans cost. The fans know this which despite them not really winning trophies every year keeps them happy. Good run club, english clubs have a lot to learn. |
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 18, 2019 13:33:00 GMT
The Dossier! Was thinking about this the other day 😂🤣 Pulis was ahead of his time. |
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Post by superpej on Jan 18, 2019 13:54:15 GMT
Dortmund had to radically change their ways after nearly going out of business a few years ago after trying unsuccessfully to buy their way back to success - the former Leeds model. When Klopp came in he was given instructions to build talent from within the club using academy players such as Gotze, Reuss and Smelzer plus cheap (then) buys such as Hummells - that team ran into the sand as players left and they have had to rebuild again - what is impressive this season is that the new manager Favre has basically built a successful team in a matter of months with at least 6 new players such as Zagadou, Diallo sancho etc.
Basically Dortmund sell players because generally salaries are higher e.g in the Premier league or they want to step up to hollywood bayern with their enduring record of success.
Both their academy system and scouting works well and they repeatedly give young players a chance which is why Jordan Sancho went there
Of course german football has a different ethos and structure to the UK with fan membership schemes and less business type ownership which is an advantage
With Stoke the pressure has been on to compete at a high level on a short term basis so the risks have been too high to allow academy players a run of games in the first team and allow them to develop in the way Dortmund have. Maybe like for like our academy players are not so technically good as german players of the same age - but there again we have been recruiting young players from abroad with no apparent benefit.
Scouting has been a joke largely - with Dortmund over the years they have got players from japan, the USA, France, Ukraine, Poland, Denmark, Switzerland and Spain - obviously they are a "bigger club" but nonetheless there are no doubt gems out there e.g in Ligue Un to be found.
Now we have to cut our cloth since no doubt the war chest is closed for the moment - wisely so if we are to avoid financial melt down then we have to start again with "the kids" and some more astute dealings in the lower leagues both at home and abroad - whether we have the people at the club to manage this transition and give Jones the players he needs to make a mark I rather doubt - it took Kopp and a much more effective "transfer team" and academy to build a successful team 2 seasons to rebuild - it has taken favre six months arguably with better foundations
All we can say for certain it will be a long road back
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Post by harryburrows on Jan 18, 2019 14:13:21 GMT
This is exactly how a club should be run. I have a lot of time for Dortmund. Superb club. Can see what your saying but as someone who used to go to BVB on a regular basis in the 80's its still a mystery to me how a team that has an average attendance of 80,000 can't maximise income and marketing to enable them to be a position where they don't have to sell their best players on a regular basis!! Doesn't gate revenue account for only about 5 % of total income in the premier league . The bulk of the income is from sky . Also German ticket prices are much lower |
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Jan 18, 2019 19:11:15 GMT
How can you say that??? They're up fenton park every sunday morning!!! We wouldn't know a good footballer if he wore a shirt with Messi on the back and answered to the name Lionel Dunno why but immediately made me picture a grinning Lionel Blair* wearing a Messi shirt while giving a double thumbs up * apologies to our younger viewers :-) |
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Post by nonameface on Jan 18, 2019 19:43:54 GMT
We wouldn't know a good footballer if he wore a shirt with Messi on the back and answered to the name Lionel Dunno why but immediately made me picture a grinning Lionel Blair* wearing a Messi shirt while giving a double thumbs up * apologies to our younger viewers :-) That's a dreadful thought. I had the same one too... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 23:12:54 GMT
I like dortmundt too, but ironically when one of their best players and a cult hero at dortmundt, Paul Lambert, was manager here, he got dogs abuse.
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Post by tony1234 on Jan 19, 2019 1:33:51 GMT
When you see big money players move and not do well, makes me wonder how much of their performance at the previous club was down to coaching / management / player development. Would they have been stars if they'd come to Stoke?
Loads of our recent signings seemed to underwhelm. Maclean hasn't disappointed because he's performance about the level I expected. But Afobe, Woods, Ince, Allen, Clucas, .... they were all the star men at other clubs. Allen got games for Liverpool and was generally well respected there. BMI was wanted by Man U once. They've all been different shades of grey this season. Makes me think if we'd bought Gayle, not Afobe, or even Chester and not Williams, etc they'd have turned out the same.
If this is true - that our set up has made good players look average or poor - the opposite must be possible if we had a proper structure and invested in the right backroom talent. In extreme, see how Tottenham brough on Kane. Remember watching Kane when he first emerged and he reminded me a little of Ian Olney; a lump with average touch with errant finishing; an outstanding example of 2nd division mediocrity. But the club knew about his incredible obsessiveness, so persisted. They developed him via a series of loans. Spurs also developed Ali, Walker, Dier, et al.
Said before Jones came that - while the guy has obvious qualities - i can't help but note the clubs that have done well in recent years in the Champs appointing foreign managers who brouight coaching and player development experience in elite European clubs, notably Norwich, Leeds, Huddersfield, Wolves, Fulham, Newcastle. For that reason, I rather wanted the Borussia Dortmund II coach as our next manager, even though i haven't got a clue who he is.
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Post by clarkeda on Jan 19, 2019 8:51:51 GMT
This is exactly how a club should be run. I have a lot of time for Dortmund. Superb club. Agreed they’re my ‘second club’ |
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