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Post by PotteringThrough on Jan 16, 2019 20:22:59 GMT
You're right of course, some of the stuff on here beggars belief. What is interesting is that most people seem keen to cut NJ some slack, but even before his comments about the fans a lot of them never gave GR the same leeway. I think if he’d come in last January when we first approached him he might’ve got a bit more slack. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 16, 2019 20:29:11 GMT
You're right of course, some of the stuff on here beggars belief. What is interesting is that most people seem keen to cut NJ some slack, but even before his comments about the fans a lot of them never gave GR the same leeway. NJ’s task is all the greater because of the mess Rowett made with significant funds to do so. Not only rowett |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 16, 2019 20:33:30 GMT
NJ’s task is all the greater because of the mess Rowett made with significant funds to do so. Not only rowett Agreed. |
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Post by Stokie in Sydney on Jan 17, 2019 0:19:50 GMT
The one thing about football is that everyone has an opinion, some valid, some not. Just because you have an opinion yourself, it doesn't make you right, neither does it make you wrong. It is just a dominant thought that has come to your head. Based on the last couple of games, we have played better football under Rowett than Jones. He comes across as being out of his depth. League 1 to the championship is a huge leap and I can't see how his approach of attacking football is going to work with this team. We need instant results but to change this team is going to take between 4 to 6 windows to get right. Are you prepared for 3 years of hell on earth and potentially getting relegated again? Respect other fans points of view. Oh dear, you really are special. Witch hunt for the normal people. Same could be said about you, fucking idiot. |
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Post by wuzza on Jan 17, 2019 0:22:33 GMT
Jones is going to need 2 or 3 years.
Can we bite the bullet ?
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 17, 2019 0:27:17 GMT
You're right of course, some of the stuff on here beggars belief. What is interesting is that most people seem keen to cut NJ some slack, but even before his comments about the fans a lot of them never gave GR the same leeway. Rowett started on the fans more or less the day he walked through the door. |
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Post by Gods on Jan 17, 2019 0:33:14 GMT
Jones is going to need 2 or 3 years. Can we bite the bullet ? I doubt it. His predecessors Lambert and Rowett both got 25 weeks before being hauled in to the Chief Executive's office and summarily fired. |
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Post by onefatcopper on Jan 17, 2019 1:17:15 GMT
Jones is going to need 2 or 3 years. Can we bite the bullet ? It takes as long as it takes, and I’ve got no plans to go anywhere else! |
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Post by darksideofthemoon on Jan 17, 2019 1:57:24 GMT
Even though Percy said there are significant funds available? I think he'll be backed and bring in 3 players this window. We'll spend but I'm not convinced the board will commit another 40-46M plus loan fees for another manager, without significant outgoings. That's one thing we most definitely NEED.......but it's a question of WHO and HOW do we get rid of them!!??  |
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Post by kustokie on Jan 17, 2019 2:26:23 GMT
I've read some of the threads on here and have to say that most of us seem to understand that it's going to take NJ some time to improve morale, fitness and get players to play his way. In my view, this is sensible, measured and shows patience...along with a bit of common sense. This is new era for Stoke and I truly believe that he will drive us forward but needs time. Then I read some of the comments that have been made by the likes of Ibby (sorry to single him out)and am left wondering what on earth is going on in their head. Now I know that we have some on here that like their footy but have no idea about the game and that's probably only to be expected on a football forum but I'm left gobsmacked. Their support (or lack of it)and comments are beyond absurd. Their lack of patience and understanding on the task that NJ has ahead of him beggars belief. It's almost as if they hope NJ fails and we get relegated, which makes me wonder why they actually follow Stoke. I think we have some fans on here who are toxic and will do their utmost to ruin our club. I'm all for free speech but can't get my head around what makes them tick. I'm going for a lie down. The beauty of football is partly the agony that goes with it. Good times, bad times are part of the game, always have been, always will be regardless of who the team is. I've grieved, fumed and ruminated about Stoke all my life, over 70 years now, but never thought of giving up on them. Football is however, a game that divides as well as unites fans. So be it. I've always been surrounded by supporters that were giving up watching Stoke but funnily enough, few of them actually did. Let them have their moan, they'll feel better as we all do after a moan. (thumbsup)Stoke are in a mess at the moment, but like I say, it's part of the game. Keep the faith, even when all around you are despairing. I am with you, mate. It’s hump day, which means I have forgotten about the last match and looking forward to Satdee, even though we’ll probably get a good hiding. |
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Post by jeycov on Jan 17, 2019 7:45:09 GMT
You're right of course, some of the stuff on here beggars belief. What is interesting is that most people seem keen to cut NJ some slack, but even before his comments about the fans a lot of them never gave GR the same leeway. I think if he’d come in last January when we first approached him he might’ve got a bit more slack. Very good point, Along with the other names we were linked to then and indeed 2 weeks ago, only Lambert and Jones were brave enough to take on the challenge Rowett, didn’t want the reputation of taking us down, but come the summer, was happy to have the funds and backing to manage one of the favourites to be promoted Team morale was a big part of our relegation, playing for a struggling team when managers are being sacked and publicly turning down the opportunity to work here says it all Huddersfield are in a similar dilemma, with some experienced managers keeping their distance The morale of the fans reflects this too A few wins will help everyone, we may have to wait however NJ is our manager, it’s a very tough job, we need to give him our support and resist the temptation to boo on Saturday if things are not going well |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 8:03:39 GMT
The one thing about football is that everyone has an opinion, some valid, some not. Just because you have an opinion yourself, it doesn't make you right, neither does it make you wrong. It is just a dominant thought that has come to your head. Based on the last couple of games, we have played better football under Rowett than Jones. He comes across as being out of his depth. League 1 to the championship is a huge leap and I can't see how his approach of attacking football is going to work with this team. We need instant results but to change this team is going to take between 4 to 6 windows to get right. Are you prepared for 3 years of hell on earth and potentially getting relegated again? Respect other fans points of view. I respect your point of view, but how on earth can you form an opinion on NJ after 2 games? It's possible to express an opinion about one game, right? So of course you can form an opinion on the manager's actions or lack thereof in that one game. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 8:24:23 GMT
The one thing about football is that everyone has an opinion, some valid, some not. Just because you have an opinion yourself, it doesn't make you right, neither does it make you wrong. It is just a dominant thought that has come to your head. Based on the last couple of games, we have played better football under Rowett than Jones. He comes across as being out of his depth. League 1 to the championship is a huge leap and I can't see how his approach of attacking football is going to work with this team. We need instant results but to change this team is going to take between 4 to 6 windows to get right. Are you prepared for 3 years of hell on earth and potentially getting relegated again? Respect other fans points of view. I cannot respect that point of view. Because it’s absolute nonsense. |
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Post by maple on Jan 17, 2019 8:34:34 GMT
You're right of course, some of the stuff on here beggars belief. What is interesting is that most people seem keen to cut NJ some slack, but even before his comments about the fans a lot of them never gave GR the same leeway. |
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Post by maple on Jan 17, 2019 8:37:27 GMT
Really concerned NJ has no experience of the Championship, achieved nothing as a player, can he command the respect of players at this level?
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 17, 2019 9:25:36 GMT
They're totally different scenarios, based on manager walking in, timing and football philosophy. Rowett had the full summer. Jones is coming in mid season. I think it's a fair assumption that Jones won't have as much to spend as Rowett too. Even though Percy said there are significant funds available? I think he'll be backed and bring in 3 players this window. The problem being that if funds were in place would quality players wish to come in the present climate? We’ve got far an away enough average players that will not take the club forward in the medium/long term. The recruitment strategy operated over the last six years has put us in an awful position in the league (mid table Championship) and made us a significantly less attractive proposition for quality players. It seems we will have to revert back and build from foundation level again which will not take place overnight......thanks TS |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 17, 2019 9:28:07 GMT
Even though Percy said there are significant funds available? I think he'll be backed and bring in 3 players this window. The problem being that if funds were in place would quality players wish to come in the present climate? We’ve got far an away enough average players that will not take the club forward in the medium/long term. The recruitment strategy operated over the last six years has put us in an awful position in the league (mid table Championship) and made us a significantly less attractive proposition for quality players. It seems we will have to revert back and build from foundation level again which will not take place overnight......thanks TS There are quality players in the lower leagues and abroad who would see us as a step up. |
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Post by knype on Jan 17, 2019 9:30:45 GMT
Really concerned NJ has no experience of the Championship, achieved nothing as a player, can he command the respect of players at this level? Bore off! What complete tripe! |
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 17, 2019 9:31:30 GMT
The problem being that if funds were in place would quality players wish to come in the present climate? We’ve got far an away enough average players that will not take the club forward in the medium/long term. The recruitment strategy operated over the last six years has put us in an awful position in the league (mid table Championship) and made us a significantly less attractive proposition for quality players. It seems we will have to revert back and build from foundation level again which will not take place overnight......thanks TS There are quality players in the lower leagues and abroad who would see us as a step up. I wouldn’t disagree with you on that point. I’m not enthusiastically confident that our current recruitment team could unearth those gems. Their record working to that existing strategy has failed massively to-date |
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Post by RAF on Jan 17, 2019 9:53:41 GMT
Really concerned NJ has no experience of the Championship, achieved nothing as a player, can he command the respect of players at this level? Neither did Mourinho when he took over Benfica. H |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 17, 2019 9:55:56 GMT
There are quality players in the lower leagues and abroad who would see us as a step up. I wouldn’t disagree with you on that point. I’m not enthusiastically confident that our current recruitment team could unearth those gems. Their record working to that existing strategy has failed massively to-date The manager might be able to though? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 10:26:57 GMT
You're right of course, some of the stuff on here beggars belief. What is interesting is that most people seem keen to cut NJ some slack, but even before his comments about the fans a lot of them never gave GR the same leeway. NJ’s task is all the greater because of the mess Rowett made with significant funds to do so. So if NJ's first few signings don't make the grade I assume we'll want him out too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 10:42:54 GMT
NJ’s task is all the greater because of the mess Rowett made with significant funds to do so. So if NJ's first few signings don't make the grade I assume we'll want him out too. He can’t buy James McClean for £6m because that fool already did it and neither do I expect he will be an injured player that even now fit has turned out to be completely useless so it can’t get any worse and I think NJ is ok! |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 17, 2019 10:48:11 GMT
NJ’s task is all the greater because of the mess Rowett made with significant funds to do so. So if NJ's first few signings don't make the grade I assume we'll want him out too. It depends how we’re doing doesn’t it? If there are positive signs in the performances, even if the results don’t necessarily come at first. He’ll get more time than Rowett because he doesn’t get the benefit of a pre-season or a huge budget and inherits an even bigger mess. |
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Post by stokeykez on Jan 17, 2019 11:00:31 GMT
We now have a manager that given time is not here to put a plaster on the wound. He is going to rip the bandage off and take a proper look, then decide what to do. This will need time, he is a good appointment that will get this right. At the minute though we have a lot of players who are not right, this will come right as he starts to build his team.
It's a shame that he hasn't come in in the closed season where he has time to get his principles across and experiment his personnel without the judging panel of stoke fans.
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Post by onefatcopper on Jan 17, 2019 11:21:19 GMT
NJ’s task is all the greater because of the mess Rowett made with significant funds to do so. So if NJ's first few signings don't make the grade I assume we'll want him out too. It’s a fine line between being a good manager and being a bad manager, and a major factor is good old fashioned luck ! Just look at our own recent history and you can see how we fondly remember certain managers:- Macari he found nuggets in Stein & Sheron, :- Pulis he found Fuller, :- Hughes he found Arnie. I know that these three Managers cause diversity among the fans, but by taking a calculated risk and sheer good luck they turned up with gems that will live in our folklore, but these signings could have worked out terribly and so would they be judged bad Managers ? It’s just pot luck. |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jan 17, 2019 11:38:49 GMT
I think what's important, is that Jones must not only succeed in implementing his style of play and the diamond, but also completely and utterly reverse the idle culture that currently besets the club. The mentality demonstrated on the pitch comes about because of apathy, lack of consequences and a generally accepted norm (maybe even subconsciously so) that losing is ok, because someone else will get blamed: the manager, the CEO etc. Don't get me wrong they share the blame, but Jones has to be given time to root out those who are no longer capable of contributing positively towards Stoke City Football Club.
There can be no room for sentiment, I love Ryan Shawcross but the way he mopes around the pitch and genuinely looks like he'd rather be elsewhere means he should be gone as soon as we can arrange it. Don't even start me on the rest of the losers at the back, all bar Edwards and possibly Pieters who at least has shown some consistency this year want moving on. The aged midfield needs rooting out and replacing so that they can pursue the media careers they wish to follow. The strikeforce needs it's "old reliable" removing as hopefully Crouch retires at the end of the season, as someone who had a great career, but someone I can't help associate with our decline as he was non existent in that 15/16 side but his minutes gradually increased as we got more and more desperate.
Jones isn't just faced with changing the results, because he's got to stop a rot that's set in over 3 years, then he's got to implement his system and then it's got to pay off. He cannot do any of those in 2 games, I think he can be a real success here but he's going to need our patience and support even when we're losing to a "Brentford".
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 17, 2019 12:13:56 GMT
So if NJ's first few signings don't make the grade I assume we'll want him out too. It’s a fine line between being a good manager and being a bad manager, and a major factor is good old fashioned luck ! Just look at our own recent history and you can see how we fondly remember certain managers:- Macari he found nuggets in Stein & Sheron, :- Pulis he found Fuller, :- Hughes he found Arnie. I know that these three Managers cause diversity among the fans, but by taking a calculated risk and sheer good luck they turned up with gems that will live in our folklore, but these signings could have worked out terribly and so would they be judged bad Managers ? It’s just pot luck. Is it pot luck? They haven’t drawn those names out of a hat have they? Is it not good judgement? Though Pulis is lucky Higgy talked him into signing Ric over Dexter Blackstock... |
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Post by redstriper on Jan 17, 2019 13:51:39 GMT
I cannot respect that point of view. Because it’s absolute nonsense. He's in Sydney - clearly watching the TV upside down  |
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Post by onefatcopper on Jan 17, 2019 14:01:28 GMT
It’s a fine line between being a good manager and being a bad manager, and a major factor is good old fashioned luck ! Just look at our own recent history and you can see how we fondly remember certain managers:- Macari he found nuggets in Stein & Sheron, :- Pulis he found Fuller, :- Hughes he found Arnie. I know that these three Managers cause diversity among the fans, but by taking a calculated risk and sheer good luck they turned up with gems that will live in our folklore, but these signings could have worked out terribly and so would they be judged bad Managers ? It’s just pot luck. Is it pot luck? They haven’t drawn those names out of a hat have they? Is it not good judgement? Though Pulis is lucky Higgy talked him into signing Ric over Dexter Blackstock... My point being, is that these players where cast as failures at their respective clubs, our managers saw something in them and took the chance that others didn’t. Stein languishing in the reserves at Oxford, he came on loan and wasn’t a instant success but Macari persevered and Stein became a all time hero, Sheron a big money flop, Fuller injury prone rebell, Arnie maverick bad boy all these heroes had the talent but at the point they came to Stoke their respective careers had reached a crossroads. If you don’t believe in luck remember when we beat Cardiff in the playoffs when the ball went in off Soulares arse ! We never saw him again due to illness but he could have gone on to be a record goal scorer, you just don’t know ? He’s still a hero even if I can’t spell his name ! |
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