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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 19:09:08 GMT
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 1, 2019 19:10:10 GMT
I would LOVE to hear from Tone, off the record, about the real structural shit in the club. I'm still convinced he downed tools at NY in his last season here and we still have the reasons why on the payroll/sitting in the stands. Yes,after the fantastic boxing day game when we beat Liverpool 3-1 the rot set in. It's interesting that we signed Brek Shay in the impending January transfer window who was known not to be a Pulis favoured signing. Not favoured but spent the last day of the window fighting his corner at a tribunal. Next.
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 1, 2019 20:04:48 GMT
Yes,after the fantastic boxing day game when we beat Liverpool 3-1 the rot set in. It's interesting that we signed Brek Shay in the impending January transfer window who was known not to be a Pulis favoured signing. The rot started well before then. We beat Liverpool 3-1 on boxing day and were unbeaten at home in 11 months.We also went 9 games unbeaten in the premier league after the next game(club record)and were top half of the premier league.I would love that sort of rot now.
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 1, 2019 20:08:33 GMT
Yes,after the fantastic boxing day game when we beat Liverpool 3-1 the rot set in. It's interesting that we signed Brek Shay in the impending January transfer window who was known not to be a Pulis favoured signing. Not favoured but spent the last day of the window fighting his corner at a tribunal. Next. As the manager he would be expected to. Next
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 1, 2019 20:22:51 GMT
The rot started well before then. We beat Liverpool 3-1 on boxing day and were unbeaten at home in 11 months.We also went 9 games unbeaten in the premier league after the next game(club record)and were top half of the premier league.I would love that sort of rot now. That was the moment pulis started playing silly beggars with Scholes and Cartwright if my memory serves me correct. Wasnt it that January the "front of house" comments started?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 1, 2019 20:24:03 GMT
Not favoured but spent the last day of the window fighting his corner at a tribunal. Next. As the manager he would be expected to. Next He didn't want shea and he attended the tribunal by way of some kind of crazy protest.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Jan 1, 2019 20:27:25 GMT
Just heard Pejic on the car radio. He said the 2 people who are to blame for the problems at the club, were sat in the stand. Laughing. I wonder who he could possibly mean? I don’t think Pejic is a particularly well informed or incisive pundit. His comments alluding to S&C being to blame don’t run any deeper than the fact that we’ve wasted a lot of money on the likes of Imbula and Wimmer. We already knew that. Nothing to see here.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 20:29:48 GMT
The rot started well before then. We beat Liverpool 3-1 on boxing day and were unbeaten at home in 11 months.We also went 9 games unbeaten in the premier league after the next game(club record)and were top half of the premier league.I would love that sort of rot now. It was a false position, just as Rowett’s unbeaten run was. We couldn’t score and performances were poor, and we’d won just four games after New Year the previous season.
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Post by DavidY on Jan 1, 2019 21:29:38 GMT
I agree with Chester Stokie on this.
I don't know much about the administrative and commercial aspects of the club but probably they could be better and if that's the case Scholes should carry the can for that.
On the football side, particularly recruitment, I'd have thought S & C could be blamed if: (1) they had blocked or failed to complete transfers that a manager wanted or (2) they had foisted players on managers who didn't want them. On (1)I'm not aware of any occasion where signings have been deliberately blocked, if Pejic or any others in the know do, they should name names. There have been some deals that haven't gone through. Two spring to mind. First Fabian Delph. I understand he had agreed or virtually agreed to come here only to change his mind at the last minute (he has form for this). Second, James Chester, by all accounts wanted to stay at Villa and when there was a change of ownership this is what he did. I wouldn't have thought S & C could have done anything about these cases. As Chester Stokie says the biggest disasters have been Imbula and Wimmer but as far I know it was Hughes who wanted them, as indeed was the case with Berahino. Same with Rowett, he wanted all the players we signed (three of whom were subbed off today). On (2)I suppose Etebo might be an example of this, but I can't think of any others.
S & C might be more culpable for the frankly absurd contract extensions which have been handed out to Adam, Crouch, Johnson, Bojan, Affelay and Bauer over the last few years. These must have cost millions. I don't know who instigated these, but I'd have thought if the question of a contract extension for a player came up the manager would at least be asked and if he said 'This player is not in my plans and I'd like him off the books' then the extension would not have gone ahead.
Of course, S & C have to take their fair share of the blame for the current mess, but to argue that the current problems start with them is harsh. It may be that we have needed a stronger Director of Football/Technical Director - someone who could challenge managers on players like Palacious, Wimmer and MacLean. But Pulis, Hughes and Rowett are all strong characters with big egos and I don't see them being pushed around by Mark Cartwright. Similarly John Rudge seemed to have little or no influence over Tony Pulis
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 1, 2019 21:48:35 GMT
We beat Liverpool 3-1 on boxing day and were unbeaten at home in 11 months.We also went 9 games unbeaten in the premier league after the next game(club record)and were top half of the premier league.I would love that sort of rot now. That was the moment pulis started playing silly beggars with Scholes and Cartwright if my memory serves me correct. Wasnt it that January the "front of house" comments started? Yes,that was when the cracks in their relationship began to appear.
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Post by lordb on Jan 1, 2019 21:50:22 GMT
I agree with Chester Stokie on this. I don't know much about the administrative and commercial aspects of the club but probably they could be better and if that's the case Scholes should carry the can for that. On the football side, particularly recruitment, I'd have thought S & C could be blamed if: (1) they had blocked or failed to complete transfers that a manager wanted or (2) they had foisted players on managers who didn't want them. On (1)I'm not aware of any occasion where signings have been deliberately blocked, if Pejic or any others in the know do, they should name names. There have been some deals that haven't gone through. Two spring to mind. First Fabian Delph. I understand he had agreed or virtually agreed to come here only to change his mind at the last minute (he has form for this). Second, James Chester, by all accounts wanted to stay at Villa and when there was a change of ownership this is what he did. I wouldn't have thought S & C could have done anything about these cases. As Chester Stokie says the biggest disasters have been Imbula and Wimmer but as far I know it was Hughes who wanted them, as indeed was the case with Berahino. Same with Rowett, he wanted all the players we signed (three of whom were subbed off today). On (2)I suppose Etebo might be an example of this, but I can't think of any others. S & C might be more culpable for the frankly absurd contract extensions which have been handed out to Adam, Crouch, Johnson, Bojan, Affelay and Bauer over the last few years. These must have cost millions. I don't know who instigated these, but I'd have thought if the question of a contract extension for a player came up the manager would at least be asked and if he said 'This player is not in my plans and I'd like him off the books' then the extension would not have gone ahead. Of course, S & C have to take their fair share of the blame for the current mess, but to argue that the current problems start with them is harsh. It may be that we have needed a stronger Director of Football/Technical Director - someone who could challenge managers on players like Palacious, Wimmer and MacLean. But Pulis, Hughes and Rowett are all strong characters with big egos and I don't see them being pushed around by Mark Cartwright. Similarly John Rudge seemed to have little or no influence over Tony Pulis Scholes would have negotiated the contract extensions. Fail to see what part Cartwright would have had in it?
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Post by DavidY on Jan 1, 2019 21:56:21 GMT
I'm sure you're right, doubt Cartwright had any say. But do you think a contract would have been extended without managerial agreement?
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 1, 2019 21:57:08 GMT
We beat Liverpool 3-1 on boxing day and were unbeaten at home in 11 months.We also went 9 games unbeaten in the premier league after the next game(club record)and were top half of the premier league.I would love that sort of rot now. It was a false position, just as Rowett’s unbeaten run was. We couldn’t score and performances were poor, and we’d won just four games after New Year the previous season. We had a +4 goal difference at the turn of the year and were very hard to beat.The performances were certainly not poor,nor the position false.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 22:06:12 GMT
It was a false position, just as Rowett’s unbeaten run was. We couldn’t score and performances were poor, and we’d won just four games after New Year the previous season. We had a +4 goal difference at the turn of the year and were very hard to beat.The performances were certainly not poor,nor the position false. We couldn’t score for shit. There were numerous poor performances. There was revolt in the air as early as Wigan away when Stokies were fighting each other. The run of games against Sunderland, Norwich and QPR saw us take four points but we were rotten in every single one of them. The West Brom and Villa away games were turgid though the results were decent. Newcastle was awful until Crouch got a whack in the mouth and he was forced to put a couple of quicker strikers on who turned it round for us.
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 1, 2019 22:54:58 GMT
We had a +4 goal difference at the turn of the year and were very hard to beat.The performances were certainly not poor,nor the position false. We couldn’t score for shit. There were numerous poor performances. There was revolt in the air as early as Wigan away when Stokies were fighting each other. The run of games against Sunderland, Norwich and QPR saw us take four points but we were rotten in every single one of them. The West Brom and Villa away games were turgid though the results were decent. Newcastle was awful until Crouch got a whack in the mouth and he was forced to put a couple of quicker strikers on who turned it round for us. So Pulis saw this and asked for some extra bodies and was given Brek Shay.The rest is history with one constant Mr Tony Scholes.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 23:02:36 GMT
We couldn’t score for shit. There were numerous poor performances. There was revolt in the air as early as Wigan away when Stokies were fighting each other. The run of games against Sunderland, Norwich and QPR saw us take four points but we were rotten in every single one of them. The West Brom and Villa away games were turgid though the results were decent. Newcastle was awful until Crouch got a whack in the mouth and he was forced to put a couple of quicker strikers on who turned it round for us. So Pulis saw this and asked for some extra bodies and was given Brek Shay.The rest is history with one constant Mr Tony Scholes. Pulis had signed seven players that summer and only one was regularly getting in his team. The previous two windows told a similar story. That’s why the system was imposed. The team that got to the cup final was playing the best football of any Stoke team were 30-odd years and he’d dismantled it and created a duller, slower, worse one that couldn’t get anywhere near that level of performance despite the £30-£40m spent on reinforcements in that time. He was taking us backwards.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 23:05:31 GMT
We couldn’t score for shit. There were numerous poor performances. There was revolt in the air as early as Wigan away when Stokies were fighting each other. The run of games against Sunderland, Norwich and QPR saw us take four points but we were rotten in every single one of them. The West Brom and Villa away games were turgid though the results were decent. Newcastle was awful until Crouch got a whack in the mouth and he was forced to put a couple of quicker strikers on who turned it round for us. So Pulis saw this and asked for some extra bodies and was given Brek Shay.The rest is history with one constant Mr Tony Scholes. My understanding was that they sent Pulis to the Brek tribunal to keep him out of the way on transfer day so that they did not have him around to push for any new signings
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 23:23:31 GMT
He has just mentioned it again when caller said it was time for the 2 idiots to go. Pejic nodded and agreed with him. Said the problems with them go back to Pulis' time and through Hughes' reign. Listening on the radio,how do you know Pej nodded? I have got vision on my car radio. Clever these Chinese. His co presenter said Mike is nodding in agreement.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 1, 2019 23:26:12 GMT
Just heard Pejic on the car radio. He said the 2 people who are to blame for the problems at the club, were sat in the stand. Laughing. I wonder who he could possibly mean? But did he say what the problems were, saying things like this and not actually going into detail just makes things worse, it just seems like the same crap people come out on here with, just guessing with no actual idea of whats going on.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 1, 2019 23:27:05 GMT
I don't get the problem with them laughing and joking.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 1, 2019 23:30:31 GMT
I agree with Chester Stokie on this. I don't know much about the administrative and commercial aspects of the club but probably they could be better and if that's the case Scholes should carry the can for that. On the football side, particularly recruitment, I'd have thought S & C could be blamed if: (1) they had blocked or failed to complete transfers that a manager wanted or (2) they had foisted players on managers who didn't want them. On (1)I'm not aware of any occasion where signings have been deliberately blocked, if Pejic or any others in the know do, they should name names. There have been some deals that haven't gone through. Two spring to mind. First Fabian Delph. I understand he had agreed or virtually agreed to come here only to change his mind at the last minute (he has form for this). Second, James Chester, by all accounts wanted to stay at Villa and when there was a change of ownership this is what he did. I wouldn't have thought S & C could have done anything about these cases. As Chester Stokie says the biggest disasters have been Imbula and Wimmer but as far I know it was Hughes who wanted them, as indeed was the case with Berahino. Same with Rowett, he wanted all the players we signed (three of whom were subbed off today). On (2)I suppose Etebo might be an example of this, but I can't think of any others. S & C might be more culpable for the frankly absurd contract extensions which have been handed out to Adam, Crouch, Johnson, Bojan, Affelay and Bauer over the last few years. These must have cost millions. I don't know who instigated these, but I'd have thought if the question of a contract extension for a player came up the manager would at least be asked and if he said 'This player is not in my plans and I'd like him off the books' then the extension would not have gone ahead. Of course, S & C have to take their fair share of the blame for the current mess, but to argue that the current problems start with them is harsh. It may be that we have needed a stronger Director of Football/Technical Director - someone who could challenge managers on players like Palacious, Wimmer and MacLean. But Pulis, Hughes and Rowett are all strong characters with big egos and I don't see them being pushed around by Mark Cartwright. Similarly John Rudge seemed to have little or no influence over Tony Pulis Cartwright was employed in December 2012 by a certain Mr Scholes to head up recruitment. Scholes gave Cartwright quite a glowing public testimony about his recruitment experience etc. Check out Cartwright’s career before landing the role of Technical Director and then consider whether or not his appointment was justifiable based upon his CV. The next task is to list all the signings made between January 2013 and January 2018, then try and quantity the value of each individual to the first team squad, but more importantly their contribution to the clubs retention of EPL status. Establish how many free transfers, loans and low transfer fee signings have actually paid off. Our demise started with the employment of Cartwright and the implementation of an unsustainable recruitment policy under the banner of sustainability per say. IMHO Scholes has been the prime engineer of our unchecked demise (ably supported by Cartwright and a previous manager) and for some unknown reason has seemingly escaped the wrath of his employer. I’m personally looking for a strong statement of intent from the owners in the very near future. Other than the Birmingham game many years ago I cannot recall such a toxic atmosphere in the ground as witnessed today, Owners take note.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 23:33:14 GMT
I don't get the problem with them laughing and joking. It’s a serious business, you’re supposed to be stony faced at all times and flagellate yourself if you’re losing at half time.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 1, 2019 23:34:21 GMT
I agree with Chester Stokie on this. I don't know much about the administrative and commercial aspects of the club but probably they could be better and if that's the case Scholes should carry the can for that. On the football side, particularly recruitment, I'd have thought S & C could be blamed if: (1) they had blocked or failed to complete transfers that a manager wanted or (2) they had foisted players on managers who didn't want them. On (1)I'm not aware of any occasion where signings have been deliberately blocked, if Pejic or any others in the know do, they should name names. There have been some deals that haven't gone through. Two spring to mind. First Fabian Delph. I understand he had agreed or virtually agreed to come here only to change his mind at the last minute (he has form for this). Second, James Chester, by all accounts wanted to stay at Villa and when there was a change of ownership this is what he did. I wouldn't have thought S & C could have done anything about these cases. As Chester Stokie says the biggest disasters have been Imbula and Wimmer but as far I know it was Hughes who wanted them, as indeed was the case with Berahino. Same with Rowett, he wanted all the players we signed (three of whom were subbed off today). On (2)I suppose Etebo might be an example of this, but I can't think of any others. S & C might be more culpable for the frankly absurd contract extensions which have been handed out to Adam, Crouch, Johnson, Bojan, Affelay and Bauer over the last few years. These must have cost millions. I don't know who instigated these, but I'd have thought if the question of a contract extension for a player came up the manager would at least be asked and if he said 'This player is not in my plans and I'd like him off the books' then the extension would not have gone ahead. Of course, S & C have to take their fair share of the blame for the current mess, but to argue that the current problems start with them is harsh. It may be that we have needed a stronger Director of Football/Technical Director - someone who could challenge managers on players like Palacious, Wimmer and MacLean. But Pulis, Hughes and Rowett are all strong characters with big egos and I don't see them being pushed around by Mark Cartwright. Similarly John Rudge seemed to have little or no influence over Tony Pulis Cartwright was employed in December 2012 by a certain Mr Scholes to head up recruitment. Scholes gave Cartwright quite a glowing public testimony about his recruitment experience etc. Check out Cartwright’s career before landing the role of Technical Director and then consider whether or not his appointment was justifiable based upon his CV. The next task is to list all the signings made between January 2013 and January 2018, then try and quantity the value of each individual to the first team squad, but more importantly their contribution to the clubs retention of EPL status. Establish how many free transfers, loans and low transfer fee signings have actually paid off. Our demise started with the employment of Cartwright and the implementation of an unsustainable recruitment policy under the banner of sustainability per say. IMHO Scholes has been the prime engineer of our unchecked demise (ably supported by Cartwright and a previous manager) and for some unknown reason has seemingly escaped the wrath of his employer. I’m personally looking for a strong statement of intent from the owners in the very near future. Other than the Birmingham game many years ago I cannot recall such a toxic atmosphere in the ground as witnessed today, Owners take note. The signings have been driven predominantly by the manager throughout that time. Our decline was underway before that as I’ve documented.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 2, 2019 0:02:21 GMT
I have been told today by someone who does work for the club, has a long association with them having previously been registered as a player and is extremely concerned by what is happening there, that several signings have been blocked by Scholes/Cartwright. They then offer ridiculous alternatives which Rowett refuses as being unsuitable. There is a huge power struggle between Scoles/Cartwright and John Coates(who has taken over the reigns from Peter) /Rowett. This is tearing the club down the middle and will not be solved by sacking the manager. It has been like this since Pulis. The man I was talking to is a colleague of my husband is worried that this is destroying the club. I also know a good friend of Rowett from his days at Burton who has told me that several players are making his job extremely difficult.
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Post by jontimmis on Jan 2, 2019 0:04:46 GMT
I have been told today by someone who does work for the club, has a long association with them having previously been registered as a player and is extremely concerned by what is happening there, that several signings have been blocked by Scholes/Cartwright. They then offer ridiculous alternatives which Rowett refuses as being unsuitable. There is a huge power struggle between Scoles/Cartwright and John Coates(who has taken over the reigns from Peter) /Rowett. This is tearing the club down the middle and will not be solved by sacking the manager. It has been like this since Pulis. The man I was talking to is a colleague of my husband is worried that this is destroying the club. I also know a good friend of Rowett from his days at Burton who has told me that several players are making his job extremely difficult. So they pick the starting 11 and the tactics?
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Post by kustokie on Jan 2, 2019 0:16:01 GMT
I agree with Chester Stokie on this. I don't know much about the administrative and commercial aspects of the club but probably they could be better and if that's the case Scholes should carry the can for that. On the football side, particularly recruitment, I'd have thought S & C could be blamed if: (1) they had blocked or failed to complete transfers that a manager wanted or (2) they had foisted players on managers who didn't want them. On (1)I'm not aware of any occasion where signings have been deliberately blocked, if Pejic or any others in the know do, they should name names. There have been some deals that haven't gone through. Two spring to mind. First Fabian Delph. I understand he had agreed or virtually agreed to come here only to change his mind at the last minute (he has form for this). Second, James Chester, by all accounts wanted to stay at Villa and when there was a change of ownership this is what he did. I wouldn't have thought S & C could have done anything about these cases. As Chester Stokie says the biggest disasters have been Imbula and Wimmer but as far I know it was Hughes who wanted them, as indeed was the case with Berahino. Same with Rowett, he wanted all the players we signed (three of whom were subbed off today). On (2)I suppose Etebo might be an example of this, but I can't think of any others. S & C might be more culpable for the frankly absurd contract extensions which have been handed out to Adam, Crouch, Johnson, Bojan, Affelay and Bauer over the last few years. These must have cost millions. I don't know who instigated these, but I'd have thought if the question of a contract extension for a player came up the manager would at least be asked and if he said 'This player is not in my plans and I'd like him off the books' then the extension would not have gone ahead. Of course, S & C have to take their fair share of the blame for the current mess, but to argue that the current problems start with them is harsh. It may be that we have needed a stronger Director of Football/Technical Director - someone who could challenge managers on players like Palacious, Wimmer and MacLean. But Pulis, Hughes and Rowett are all strong characters with big egos and I don't see them being pushed around by Mark Cartwright. Similarly John Rudge seemed to have little or no influence over Tony Pulis Charlie Adam admitted in an interview that he spoke to Delph before he was ready to sign and said while he would enjoy playing at Stoke, why would he leave Man City.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 2, 2019 0:18:54 GMT
I don't enjoy the tactics any more than you and left the match today convinced Rowett had to go but on reflection it has been obvious since Hughes that players have not been playing for the club and things are wrong behind the scenes. Is there any reason to believe a fourth manager would find it any easier. Why has Afobe looked good at other clubs but rubbish here? Until the internal rivalries are sorted what is the point? And whilst he is in a power struggle with Scholes/Cartwright why would Coates jnr sack his ally Rowett?
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Post by jontimmis on Jan 2, 2019 0:22:38 GMT
I don't enjoy the tactics any more than you and left the match today convinced Rowett had to go but on reflection it has been obvious since Hughes that players have not been playing for the club and things are wrong behind the scenes. Is there any reason to believe a fourth manager would find it any easier. Why has Afobe looked good at other clubs but rubbish here? Until the internal rivalries are sorted what is the point? And whilst he is in a power struggle with Scholes/Cartwright why would Coates jnr sack his ally Rowett? The only answer to that question is I don’t know... If the problem is so “deep” the likelihood every manager will have the same to deal with. But I suppose if there is a power struggle, then the guys coming in on 2/3 year contracts is easy pickings as it’s Groundhog Day!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 2, 2019 0:23:03 GMT
I don't enjoy the tactics any more than you and left the match today convinced Rowett had to go but on reflection it has been obvious since Hughes that players have not been playing for the club and things are wrong behind the scenes. Is there any reason to believe a fourth manager would find it any easier. Why has Afobe looked good at other clubs but rubbish here? Until the internal rivalries are sorted what is the point? And whilst he is in a power struggle with Scholes/Cartwright why would Coates jnr sack his ally Rowett? Isn’t Coates Jr essentially Scholes and Cartwright’s boss? Afobe doesn’t work at least in part because he doesn’t fit the system and because he’s not actually very good. Fans at Wolves and Bournemouth weren’t convinced by him either.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 0:29:37 GMT
I have been told today by someone who does work for the club, has a long association with them having previously been registered as a player and is extremely concerned by what is happening there, that several signings have been blocked by Scholes/Cartwright. They then offer ridiculous alternatives which Rowett refuses as being unsuitable. There is a huge power struggle between Scoles/Cartwright and John Coates(who has taken over the reigns from Peter) /Rowett. This is tearing the club down the middle and will not be solved by sacking the manager. It has been like this since Pulis. The man I was talking to is a colleague of my husband is worried that this is destroying the club. I also know a good friend of Rowett from his days at Burton who has told me that several players are making his job extremely difficult.
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