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Post by philm87 on Dec 9, 2018 11:16:38 GMT
He was absolute quality for the first three or four games after he arrived. If we're being honest, he has been pretty poor since then. The major is issue is that he can't run properly.
Maybe Rowettt has coached the ability out of him?
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Post by StoKeith on Dec 9, 2018 11:24:13 GMT
I've tried to explain several times on here how our new signing always start out. Woods has just entered the Trough of Disillusionment which swallowed up Wimmer and Imbula but some players do come out the other side. This is a fun graph. I’m hoping the same will turn out to be true of Gary Rowett and that the last couple of months of defensive football is only a temporary reaction to the sieve-like defence we had early in the season. Who knows, maybe once he feels the defence has been stabilised he’ll give the midfield more licence to support the attack.
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Post by wuzza on Dec 9, 2018 11:24:38 GMT
Joe wasn’t playing well, Clucas wasn’t fit, Fletchers age was catching up with him and Etobe was still acclimatising (probably still is) so in truth any half decent midfielder would have been a revalation at the time. Truth probably is that he is a decent Championship player but a long way from being the messiah he was being made out to be.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 11:37:58 GMT
He’s just a chav from Cannock. When the pressure is on and its time for him to deliver, he fails. Full of optimistic hollywood balls but gets caught in possession, like Fletcher, except 10 years ahead of his time. I think you just won the internet, right there 👍 Jesus Hates Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 11:47:11 GMT
He needs some big physicality alongside him. A monster one side of him and a nippy player ahead of him, and two wide men that can play and he will flourish. In Saido, Clucas and Ince we have those wide men that can play.
In Bojan (no laughing at the back Gary) we have the nippy player to play in behind. We just need that horrible monster, and a manager that can play Bojan in a system to make him thrive, and not pay lipservice to him and give him the odd bone in central midfield here and there.
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Post by stokedan on Dec 9, 2018 11:54:40 GMT
He’s just a chav from Cannock. When the pressure is on and its time for him to deliver, he fails. Full of optimistic hollywood balls but gets caught in possession, like Fletcher, except 10 years ahead of his time. I think you just won the internet, right there 👍 Jesus Hates Christ. "Jesus Hates Christ" is not a phrase mate.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 9, 2018 11:59:16 GMT
His worst game was Reading.
He is struggling badly lately because he doesn't have the pace to track pacy runners who are singling him out in midfield.
QPR went at him, even reading and Ipswich have managed it.teams can see we lack pace through the middle of the team.
This also means we can't press properly, we don't win the ball high up the pitch.
In january we need a pacy centre back and midfielder as well as a power house striker
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 16:01:18 GMT
I think you just won the internet, right there 👍 Jesus Hates Christ. "Jesus Hates Christ" is not a phrase mate. It is mate
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 9, 2018 18:37:02 GMT
In the space of two months we have somehow managed to turn a midfield dynamo into the reincarnation of Mick fucking Kennedy. He was toss yesterday, constantly getting caught in possession and giving the ball away with wayward passes.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 9, 2018 18:57:43 GMT
He was absolute quality for the first three or four games after he arrived. If we're being honest, he has been pretty poor since then. The major is issue is that he can't run properly. Maybe Rowettt has coached the ability out of him?And then given it to Bera
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 18:58:49 GMT
In the space of two months we have somehow managed to turn a midfield dynamo into the reincarnation of Mick fucking Kennedy. He was toss yesterday, constantly getting caught in possession and giving the ball away with wayward passes. Correct, it's as if none of the midfield 3 know what their particular roles are supposed to be, they play as individuals not as a 3
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 9, 2018 19:01:18 GMT
He was absolute quality for the first three or four games after he arrived. If we're being honest, he has been pretty poor since then. The major is issue is that he can't run properly. Maybe Rowettt has coached the ability out of him?And then given it to Bera Given what to Bera? He’s working hard but his finishing is poor, I don’t see a whole lot of technical improvements, do you?
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Dec 9, 2018 19:03:46 GMT
He was absolute quality for the first three or four games after he arrived. If we're being honest, he has been pretty poor since then. The major is issue is that he can't run properly. Maybe Rowettt has coached the ability out of him? Just as the 3/4 good games he had when he came didn't make him really good the three or four bad ones he's had don't make him shit. If he wasn't a run of the mill player, he wouldn't be here, would he? He's nothing special, but better than what we've come to know over the past couple of years. The problem is with a large number of posters on here if you have three good games on the trot - you're brilliant, the best thing since sliced bread. If you have three bad ones on the trot you're shit, a complete waste of money etc.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 10, 2018 0:54:59 GMT
And then given it to Bera Given what to Bera? He’s working hard but his finishing is poor, I don’t see a whole lot of technical improvements, do you? There's a huge improvement, holds the ball up well and gets others involved, seems to be enjoying his football, Rowett has managed to do what 2 possibly 3 other managers failed to do in getting him to look like an actual footballer, but hey that doesn't fit with the Rowett bashing. Compared to when he first joined to now there's a huge improvement however you want to look at it.
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Post by mattythestokie on Dec 10, 2018 9:59:39 GMT
Given what to Bera? He’s working hard but his finishing is poor, I don’t see a whole lot of technical improvements, do you? There's a huge improvement, holds the ball up well and gets others involved, seems to be enjoying his football, Rowett has managed to do what 2 possibly 3 other managers failed to do in getting him to look like an actual footballer, but hey that doesn't fit with the Rowett bashing. Compared to when he first joined to now there's a huge improvement however you want to look at it. We’re also playing in a significantly weaker league. You would expect players to be better in this league.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 10, 2018 10:09:59 GMT
Given what to Bera? He’s working hard but his finishing is poor, I don’t see a whole lot of technical improvements, do you? There's a huge improvement, holds the ball up well and gets others involved, seems to be enjoying his football, Rowett has managed to do what 2 possibly 3 other managers failed to do in getting him to look like an actual footballer, but hey that doesn't fit with the Rowett bashing. Compared to when he first joined to now there's a huge improvement however you want to look at it. Rowett bashing, don’t be so precious. You mentioned Berahino in reference to Rowetts coaching ability, apart from an improvement in effort levels (and the benchmark wasn’t high to begin with) I don’t see the huge improvement that you do, so we’ll have to agree to disagree
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 10:12:46 GMT
There's a huge improvement, holds the ball up well and gets others involved, seems to be enjoying his football, Rowett has managed to do what 2 possibly 3 other managers failed to do in getting him to look like an actual footballer, but hey that doesn't fit with the Rowett bashing. Compared to when he first joined to now there's a huge improvement however you want to look at it. Rowett bashing, don’t be so precious. You mentioned Berahino in reference to Rowetts coaching ability, apart from an improvement in effort levels (and the benchmark wasn’t high to begin with) I don’t see the huge improvement that you do, so we’ll have to agree to disagree If you haven’t seen a huge improvement in his all round game, then I don’t know what you’ve been watching.
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Post by Absolution on Dec 10, 2018 10:17:07 GMT
There's a huge improvement, holds the ball up well and gets others involved, seems to be enjoying his football, Rowett has managed to do what 2 possibly 3 other managers failed to do in getting him to look like an actual footballer, but hey that doesn't fit with the Rowett bashing. Compared to when he first joined to now there's a huge improvement however you want to look at it. Rowett bashing, don’t be so precious. You mentioned Berahino in reference to Rowetts coaching ability, apart from an improvement in effort levels (and the benchmark wasn’t high to begin with) I don’t see the huge improvement that you do, so we’ll have to agree to disagree Berahino didn't even look like a footballer last season. Didn't look like he wanted the ball anywhere near him. He's a massively different proposition this season and has been involved with many of the goals we've scored. His hold up play is the best I've seen from a Stoke forward for many a while.
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Post by metalhead on Dec 10, 2018 10:21:56 GMT
He's obviously a talented footballer. Had a bit of a ropey game, but he was due one having been fairly consistent so far. We move on. We won. Three points.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 10, 2018 10:23:23 GMT
I'm one of Berahino's biggest critics, I considered him a complete waste of money and still hold his transfer (instead of picking up anyone of myriad alternatives) as why we eventually went down.
But to say he's not improved technical attributes in addition to his attitude is not fair at all, his hold up play has been great this season for a guy who is not the biggest. He chases down a lot of seemingly lost causes and forces a set piece or moves us up the field. He's done a passable job as a left winger when asked, though shouldn't be out there. Personally I don't care if every goal he scores is a scramble, Peter Thorne used to score every single goal on his arse, didn't stop him from being a good striker.
If he keeps persisting, and takes the starting role over from Afobe (which he deserves to IMO) then he could be a decent player for us. Even the much hailed St Paul Lambert couldn't get Berahino going last year.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 10:40:00 GMT
Given what to Bera? He’s working hard but his finishing is poor, I don’t see a whole lot of technical improvements, do you? There's a huge improvement, holds the ball up well and gets others involved, seems to be enjoying his football, Rowett has managed to do what 2 possibly 3 other managers failed to do in getting him to look like an actual footballer, but hey that doesn't fit with the Rowett bashing. Compared to when he first joined to now there's a huge improvement however you want to look at it. Kevin Phillips has clearly taken him in under his wing. You have to give the coach credit there, he's done a great job with him. We just need the first team manager to stop dropping him now.
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Post by ProctorDre on Dec 10, 2018 10:57:03 GMT
There's a huge improvement, holds the ball up well and gets others involved, seems to be enjoying his football, Rowett has managed to do what 2 possibly 3 other managers failed to do in getting him to look like an actual footballer, but hey that doesn't fit with the Rowett bashing. Compared to when he first joined to now there's a huge improvement however you want to look at it. Kevin Phillips has clearly taken him in under his wing. You have to give the coach credit there, he's done a great job with him. We just need the first team manager to stop dropping him now. Hahahaha. If there's a better post on here to show that people on here can't give Rowett credit for anything good but blame him for everything bad, I haven't seen it. What a load of shit.
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Post by neilb987 on Dec 10, 2018 11:00:13 GMT
Regarding Ryan Woods, I think he's a fine player, but he's not the defensive 'destroyer' some people expected him to be. He's a deep-lying playmaker and potentially a very good one. Sure, he had a relatively poor game on Saturday, but better players than him have bad games too, and at least he didn't hide when things weren't going too well foir him. To me, his main weakness is perhaps a lack of physicality - he's too easy to knock off the ball and be bullied - opposing teams have tended to target this aspect. Perhaps he needs to do more work on his upper-body strength in the gym ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 11:10:06 GMT
Kevin Phillips has clearly taken him in under his wing. You have to give the coach credit there, he's done a great job with him. We just need the first team manager to stop dropping him now. Hahahaha. If there's a better post on here to show that people on here can't give Rowett credit for anything good but blame him for everything bad, I haven't seen it. What a load of shit. Rowett deserves credit for bringing in Phillips and giving him the job of working with him. I thought that was a given?
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Post by ProctorDre on Dec 10, 2018 11:15:46 GMT
Hahahaha. If there's a better post on here to show that people on here can't give Rowett credit for anything good but blame him for everything bad, I haven't seen it. What a load of shit. Rowett deserves credit for bringing in Phillips and giving him the job of working with him. I thought that was a given? So you weren't just giving Phillips all the credit and then having a dig at Rowett for basically nothing (Saido has played a lot)? Sure...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 11:25:39 GMT
Rowett deserves credit for bringing in Phillips and giving him the job of working with him. I thought that was a given? So you weren't just giving Phillips all the credit and then having a dig at Rowett for basically nothing (Saido has played a lot)? Sure... I like good footballers and would like as many to be in the team as possible. He would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me. The next task for the manager is to find a system that will get him in front of goal more than he is as I think there are more goals to come from him. Phillips has obviously done excellent work on the training ground in getting his confidence levels up and his motivation up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 11:29:42 GMT
Woods (forward thinking, playmaking midfielder), Etebo (Hard arsed destroyer, but who can pass and run a bit) and one other (a mix of those two) is our optimal three man midfield. That one other isn't Joe Allen or anyone else at the club right now. Get that and we may see the best of Woods.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Dec 10, 2018 11:35:45 GMT
His worst game was Reading. He is struggling badly lately because he doesn't have the pace to track pacy runners who are singling him out in midfield. QPR went at him, even reading and Ipswich have managed it.teams can see we lack pace through the middle of the team. This also means we can't press properly, we don't win the ball high up the pitch. In january we need a pacy centre back and midfielder as well as a power house striker We have a pacey midfielder, his name is Etebo (and Clucas is not slow either), what we don't want is Woods and Allen together, neither ris quick or physically imposing. Despite playing 3 in midfield we don't dominate games and that is because Woods is not cute enough to find space to link defence and attack. In his early games he was ignored by the opposition, now they realise he is not that mobile and wont dribble past them so he can be shut down easily. It doesn't help that the right side of our defence, both centre back and right back, are poor at moving the ball quickly so we only build down the left, but there we have Saido or McClean neither of whom can beat a man regularly. We need a quick right centre back and ideally, though it wont happen, Bauer to play with the cover a faster CB would provide. With Ince drifting inside, Bauer would be the perfect foil to give us attacking width. Then a quick right footed attacker on the left to cut in and Etebeo, Clucas and one of Allen/Woods
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 10, 2018 11:44:50 GMT
Woods is a good Championship player and the reason he's not showing the flair now as he was in his earlier games is because, quite rightly, Rowett now plays him in front of the back four and not behind them, where he had much more times to do his stuff. Despite getting caught out a time or two, now he's moved into midfield, he made some good passes on Saturday.
OS.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 10, 2018 11:47:21 GMT
Rowett bashing, don’t be so precious. You mentioned Berahino in reference to Rowetts coaching ability, apart from an improvement in effort levels (and the benchmark wasn’t high to begin with) I don’t see the huge improvement that you do, so we’ll have to agree to disagree If you haven’t seen a huge improvement in his all round game, then I don’t know what you’ve been watching. The original point was referring to Rowetts coaching ability, nonetheless he’s a striker and his finishing is miles off where it should be, his effort levels are where they should be for a professional.
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