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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 5, 2018 14:52:55 GMT
Not sure what any of that has to do with your original question but whatever... Regardless of any perceived "sensationalism", do you agree that a certain number of our fans behaved like morons and embarrassed Stoke as a club last night? I'm saying, let's stop making out the faction of fans that decided to misbehave are scum of the earth, when they're not. Vale would have done the same, Brum do the same at Villa etc. It isn't perceived sensationalism, how many headlines have you seen with the 'first derby in 16 years' in them? I do agree and personally I wouldn't have got involved in such antics. But how serious was it? Really? I can think of far worse things going on in the world that are perpetrated by badly behaved men. They’re utter fuckwits. ‘Other people do it’ isn’t an excuse. They tar us by association by making us look like a bunch of thick meatheads and they could have hurt someone. This lot went there with the express intention of causing trouble, they couldn’t give a fuck about football.
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Post by mrred on Dec 5, 2018 14:57:16 GMT
Shouldn't Stoke have put out a statement by now?
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 5, 2018 15:00:38 GMT
Not sure what any of that has to do with your original question but whatever... Regardless of any perceived "sensationalism", do you agree that a certain number of our fans behaved like morons and embarrassed Stoke as a club last night? I'm saying, let's stop making out the faction of fans that decided to misbehave are scum of the earth, when they're not. Vale would have done the same, Brum do the same at Villa etc. It isn't perceived sensationalism, how many headlines have you seen with the 'first derby in 16 years' in them? I do agree and personally I wouldn't have got involved in such antics. But how serious was it? Really? I can think of far worse things going on in the world that are perpetrated by badly behaved men. So can I. You can't say that Vale "would have done the same" and it makes no difference anyway. The fact that similar behaviour happens elsewhere is of no bearing to the standard of the behaviour itself - saying "other fans are badly-behaved too" is just engaging in apologetics to be honest, although I acknowledge you did agree it was moronic.. I must say I'm intrigued by your example of sensationalism here though, isn't "first derby in 16 years" just a statement of the facts of the circumstances?? I've read any number of hyperbolic adjectives (disgraceful, appalling, despicable) you could have used before choosing a statement about the time that's elapsed since the two clubs last played
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 5, 2018 15:03:04 GMT
Shouldn't Stoke have put out a statement by now? There has been a brief one. Don't suppose they can say much more? www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/port-vale-stoke-city-trouble-2293463“The actions of a minority of the crowd at last night’s Checkatrade Trophy game against Port Vale were deplorable. “Where this behaviour involved so-called supporters of Stoke City we will be working closely with Staffordshire Police and Port Vale to bring the culprits to justice. “We will be pushing for anyone found guilty of disorder on the night to be handed a lengthy football banning order.”
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:03:27 GMT
There's a video on the sentinel of some absolute retard standing on the roof of someone's car jumping up and down whilst the owner films from the window. You can see the roof crumpling under his weight and it's clearly damaged by the time he gets off. What an absolute cunt.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 5, 2018 15:06:50 GMT
Not sure what any of that has to do with your original question but whatever... Regardless of any perceived "sensationalism", do you agree that a certain number of our fans behaved like morons and embarrassed Stoke as a club last night? I'm saying, let's stop making out the faction of fans that decided to misbehave are scum of the earth, when they're not. Vale would have done the same, Brum do the same at Villa etc. It isn't perceived sensationalism, how many headlines have you seen with the 'first derby in 16 years' in them? I do agree and personally I wouldn't have got involved in such antics. But how serious was it? Really? I can think of far worse things going on in the world that are perpetrated by badly behaved men. Im sorry but for me they are scum of the earth and I would imagine most people think the same
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 5, 2018 15:07:31 GMT
There's a video on the sentinel of some absolute retard standing on the roof of someone's car jumping up and down whilst the owner films from the window. You can see the roof crumpling under his weight and it's clearly damaged by the time he gets off. What an absolute cunt.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:13:31 GMT
I'm saying, let's stop making out the faction of fans that decided to misbehave are scum of the earth, when they're not. Vale would have done the same, Brum do the same at Villa etc. It isn't perceived sensationalism, how many headlines have you seen with the 'first derby in 16 years' in them? I do agree and personally I wouldn't have got involved in such antics. But how serious was it? Really? I can think of far worse things going on in the world that are perpetrated by badly behaved men. So can I. You can't say that Vale "would have done the same" and it makes no difference anyway. The fact that similar behaviour happens elsewhere is of no bearing to the standard of the behaviour itself - saying "other fans are badly-behaved too" is just engaging in apologetics to be honest, although I acknowledge you did agree it was moronic.. I must say I'm intrigued by your example of sensationalism here though, isn't "first derby in 16 years" just a statement of the facts of the circumstances?? I've read any number of hyperbolic adjectives (disgraceful, appalling, despicable) you could have used before choosing a statement about the time that's elapsed since the two clubs last played The reason I chose that is because it is very dramatic, isn't it? The length of time coupled with the fact with really, if this was a proper fixture things would have been a lot worse. I am not making excuses for the behaviour at all, I just don't agree with the reaction. And given other factors, l also don't know what people expect. I am not making apologies but if you really wanted to completely eradicate this behaviour at football it would take a lot more than better policing. As has been said, it was an isolated incident on the whole, nobody was hurt and generally you can go to an away match these days knowing you can avoid trouble.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:15:39 GMT
Not sure what any of that has to do with your original question but whatever... Regardless of any perceived "sensationalism", do you agree that a certain number of our fans behaved like morons and embarrassed Stoke as a club last night? I'm saying, let's stop making out the faction of fans that decided to misbehave are scum of the earth, when they're not. Vale would have done the same, Brum do the same at Villa etc. It isn't perceived sensationalism, how many headlines have you seen with the 'first derby in 16 years' in them? I do agree and personally I wouldn't have got involved in such antics. But how serious was it? Really? I can think of far worse things going on in the world that are perpetrated by badly behaved men. If you measure everything in life against innocent kids being blown up in Yemen then of course there's worse things going on in the world. Your argument is the one my 7 year old uses when I bollock him, "I only did it because X did it as well". The antics of a minority of our "fans" we're embarrassing, I hope they get the book thrown at them if they get caught.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:16:59 GMT
I'm saying, let's stop making out the faction of fans that decided to misbehave are scum of the earth, when they're not. Vale would have done the same, Brum do the same at Villa etc. It isn't perceived sensationalism, how many headlines have you seen with the 'first derby in 16 years' in them? I do agree and personally I wouldn't have got involved in such antics. But how serious was it? Really? I can think of far worse things going on in the world that are perpetrated by badly behaved men. Im sorry but for me they are scum of the earth and I would imagine most people think the same Get a grip, man. There's men stabbing young teens in London every other week whilst multi-billionaires get away with harassing women in an office. But a few pissed up youths smashing some windows are scum of the earth? Stupid, yes, totally.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 5, 2018 15:20:11 GMT
Im sorry but for me they are scum of the earth and I would imagine most people think the same Get a grip, man. There's men stabbing young teens in London every other week whilst multi-billionaires get away with harassing women in an office. But a few pissed up youths smashing some windows are scum of the earth? Stupid, yes, totally. Brain dead scum of the earth then
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:20:30 GMT
I'm saying, let's stop making out the faction of fans that decided to misbehave are scum of the earth, when they're not. Vale would have done the same, Brum do the same at Villa etc. It isn't perceived sensationalism, how many headlines have you seen with the 'first derby in 16 years' in them? I do agree and personally I wouldn't have got involved in such antics. But how serious was it? Really? I can think of far worse things going on in the world that are perpetrated by badly behaved men. If you measure everything in life against innocent kids being blown up in Yemen then of course there's worse things going on in the world. Your argument is the one my 7 year old uses when I bollock him, "I only did it because X did it as well". The antics of a minority of our "fans" we're embarrassing, I hope they get the book thrown at them if they get caught..... My argument is nothing more than why are we reacting like people have been killed? The drama caused, the more chance of there being needless repercussions in the future. Anyone who gets caught on camera doing anything anti-social will be charged and that is their prerogative.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 5, 2018 15:24:00 GMT
So can I. You can't say that Vale "would have done the same" and it makes no difference anyway. The fact that similar behaviour happens elsewhere is of no bearing to the standard of the behaviour itself - saying "other fans are badly-behaved too" is just engaging in apologetics to be honest, although I acknowledge you did agree it was moronic.. I must say I'm intrigued by your example of sensationalism here though, isn't "first derby in 16 years" just a statement of the facts of the circumstances?? I've read any number of hyperbolic adjectives (disgraceful, appalling, despicable) you could have used before choosing a statement about the time that's elapsed since the two clubs last played The reason I chose that is because it is very dramatic, isn't it? The length of time coupled with the fact with really, if this was a proper fixture things would have been a lot worse. I am not making excuses for the behaviour at all, I just don't agree with the reaction. And given other factors, l also don't know what people expect. I am not making apologies but if you really wanted to completely eradicate this behaviour at football it would take a lot more than better policing. As has been said, it was an isolated incident on the whole, nobody was hurt and generally you can go to an away match these days knowing you can avoid trouble. Mate you took issue with my phrase "perceived sensationalism" but if you're reading drama and sensation in the words "first derby in 16 years" I can only say I think you're projecting somewhat. It's literally a dispassionate statement of fact. What would you rather they said??
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:26:58 GMT
The reason I chose that is because it is very dramatic, isn't it? The length of time coupled with the fact with really, if this was a proper fixture things would have been a lot worse. I am not making excuses for the behaviour at all, I just don't agree with the reaction. And given other factors, l also don't know what people expect. I am not making apologies but if you really wanted to completely eradicate this behaviour at football it would take a lot more than better policing. As has been said, it was an isolated incident on the whole, nobody was hurt and generally you can go to an away match these days knowing you can avoid trouble. Mate you took issue with my phrase "perceived sensationalism" but if you're reading drama and sensation in the words "first derby in 16 years" I can only say I think you're projecting somewhat. It's literally a dispassionate statement of fact. What would you rather they said?? A Potteries Derby, albeit Port Vale versus Stoke's youth team, watched by little over a half-full stadium. That's the fact, in my eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:28:28 GMT
There's a video on the sentinel of some absolute retard standing on the roof of someone's car jumping up and down whilst the owner films from the window. You can see the roof crumpling under his weight and it's clearly damaged by the time he gets off. What an absolute cunt. Totally agree, there’s one thing having a punch up bug when your vandalising people’s possessions that is bang out of order. There were stoke fans parked on Hamil Road so what’s to say that wasn’t a stokies car? Also the dickheads throwing cones at windows etc, I used to live just off high lane and there were loads of stoke fans around there as well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:31:53 GMT
If you measure everything in life against innocent kids being blown up in Yemen then of course there's worse things going on in the world. Your argument is the one my 7 year old uses when I bollock him, "I only did it because X did it as well". The antics of a minority of our "fans" we're embarrassing, I hope they get the book thrown at them if they get caught..... My argument is nothing more than why are we reacting like people have been killed? The drama caused, the more chance of there being needless repercussions in the future. Anyone who gets caught on camera doing anything anti-social will be charged and that is their prerogative. So it would have taken one of those pieces of glass severing someones artery and killing them for you to take seriously what happened? What if someone had been blinded by one of the missiles thrown would that have counted?
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 5, 2018 15:31:53 GMT
Mate you took issue with my phrase "perceived sensationalism" but if you're reading drama and sensation in the words "first derby in 16 years" I can only say I think you're projecting somewhat. It's literally a dispassionate statement of fact. What would you rather they said?? A Potteries Derby, albeit Port Vale versus Stoke's youth team, watched by little over a half-full stadium. That's the fact, in my eyes. Also Vale's biggest gate of the season...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 5, 2018 15:45:04 GMT
Mate you took issue with my phrase "perceived sensationalism" but if you're reading drama and sensation in the words "first derby in 16 years" I can only say I think you're projecting somewhat. It's literally a dispassionate statement of fact. What would you rather they said?? A Potteries Derby, albeit Port Vale versus Stoke's youth team, watched by little over a half-full stadium. That's the fact, in my eyes. The fact that these dicks were so desperate to cause trouble they turned up to a youth team game to do it is an even more damning indictment of it. And it was the first derby (of sorts, though not a proper one) in 16 years, that in itself is newsworthy, it isn't sensationalising.
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 5, 2018 15:50:24 GMT
Happened every week in ths 70s it’s nothing new We’re 40 years on if you hadn’t noticed Still happens every week , in the lower leagues and derby games , suppose the armchair fans and prem glory hunter boys don’t just see it
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:51:39 GMT
My argument is nothing more than why are we reacting like people have been killed? The drama caused, the more chance of there being needless repercussions in the future. Anyone who gets caught on camera doing anything anti-social will be charged and that is their prerogative. So it would have taken one of those pieces of glass severing someones artery and killing them for you to take seriously what happened? What if someone had been blinded by one of the missiles thrown would that have counted? I do not dispute there is a slight chance of anything like that happening which is why I am sure the police will deal with those who committed such acts will be dealt with appropriately. Sadly, that kind of idiocy is expected from football fans from all clubs, around the world. As it happened, nobody was hurt, so let's stop talking about it like World War 3 kicked off in Burslem.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Dec 5, 2018 15:54:43 GMT
We’re 40 years on if you hadn’t noticed Still happens every week , in the lower leagues and derby games , suppose the armchair fans and prem glory hunter boys don’t just see it How many "armchair fans and prem glory hunter boys don't just see it" are on the Oatie do you think?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:55:02 GMT
So it would have taken one of those pieces of glass severing someones artery and killing them for you to take seriously what happened? What if someone had been blinded by one of the missiles thrown would that have counted? I do not dispute there is a slight chance of anything like that happening which is why I am sure the police will deal with those who committed such acts will be dealt with appropriately. Sadly, that kind of idiocy is expected from football fans from all clubs, around the world. As it happened, nobody was hurt, so let's stop talking about it like World War 3 kicked off in Burslem. You're the only person mentioning WW3. A braindead moron is a braindead moron however you want to compare it in the grand scheme of things......
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 15:56:11 GMT
A Potteries Derby, albeit Port Vale versus Stoke's youth team, watched by little over a half-full stadium. That's the fact, in my eyes. The fact that these dicks were so desperate to cause trouble they turned up to a youth team game to do it is an even more damning indictment of it.And it was the first derby (of sorts, though not a proper one) in 16 years, that in itself is newsworthy, it isn't sensationalising. I think this relates to points I was making earlier in the thread. It's sad but the reality is it is a result of a disassociated youth who got involved in a lot of hype. The source of that problem has existed for 100 years of football and just because you don't see it on the news as much anymore, like you would have in decades gone by, it doesn't mean that the underlying problem has gone away, or ever will do. It has happened before and it will happen again. I have no doubt there will be young lads who will get nicked and think fucking hell, that really wasn't worth it.
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 5, 2018 15:59:27 GMT
Still happens every week , in the lower leagues and derby games , suppose the armchair fans and prem glory hunter boys don’t just see it How many "armchair fans and prem glory hunter boys don't just see it" are on the Oatie do you think? I’m not been funny but when two local rivals clash this is the result , I’ve been to Celtic v rangers , the shit v city , Sheff Utd v Wednesday and what happened last night is child’s play to what goes on those games , a few flares , broken seats and bogs and aggro , welcome to the passion of a derby game
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 5, 2018 16:02:21 GMT
The fact that these dicks were so desperate to cause trouble they turned up to a youth team game to do it is an even more damning indictment of it.And it was the first derby (of sorts, though not a proper one) in 16 years, that in itself is newsworthy, it isn't sensationalising. I think this relates to points I was making earlier in the thread. It's sad but the reality is it is a result of a disassociated youth who got involved in a lot of hype. The source of that problem has existed for 100 years of football and just because you don't see it on the news as much anymore, like you would have in decades gone by, it doesn't mean that the underlying problem has gone away, or ever will do. It has happened before and it will happen again. I have no doubt there will be young lads who will get nicked and think fucking hell, that really wasn't worth it. Just because 'it happens' doesn't make it ok though. They're still utter fucking morons who threaten to ruin it for people who just want to support their team and enjoy a game of football.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 5, 2018 16:05:51 GMT
How many "armchair fans and prem glory hunter boys don't just see it" are on the Oatie do you think? I’m not been funny but when two local rivals clash this is the result , I’ve been to Celtic v rangers , the shit v city , Sheff Utd v Wednesday and what happened last night is child’s play to what goes on those games , a few flares , broken seats and bogs and aggro , welcome to the passion of a derby game What stirred those 'passions' last night then? How many of our starting XI last night would they know if they smacked them with a wet mackerel? There was genuine needle in the 90s when there was something at stake, which made it at least understandable if not acceptable. Last night was a kids' game, it was just an excuse for some bellends to get tanked up and cause trouble.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Dec 5, 2018 16:07:00 GMT
How many "armchair fans and prem glory hunter boys don't just see it" are on the Oatie do you think? I’m not been funny but when two local rivals clash this is the result , I’ve been to Celtic v rangers , the shit v city , Sheff Utd v Wednesday and what happened last night is child’s play to what goes on those games , a few flares , broken seats and bogs and aggro , welcome to the passion of a derby game Well that's OK then. I have witnessed all SCFC/PVFC games that have taken place over the last 50 years and have witnessed problems at each one. I must be from another planet because for all my passion at the games I've never destroyed property or physically harmed anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 16:07:30 GMT
I think this relates to points I was making earlier in the thread. It's sad but the reality is it is a result of a disassociated youth who got involved in a lot of hype. The source of that problem has existed for 100 years of football and just because you don't see it on the news as much anymore, like you would have in decades gone by, it doesn't mean that the underlying problem has gone away, or ever will do. It has happened before and it will happen again. I have no doubt there will be young lads who will get nicked and think fucking hell, that really wasn't worth it. Just because 'it happens' doesn't make it ok though. They're still utter fucking morons who threaten to ruin it for people who just want to support their team and enjoy a game of football. Please tell me where I have said it is okay or condoned what happened? This is getting even more boring than work now, we're not going to agree, so let's leave it.
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 5, 2018 16:07:38 GMT
I’m not been funny but when two local rivals clash this is the result , I’ve been to Celtic v rangers , the shit v city , Sheff Utd v Wednesday and what happened last night is child’s play to what goes on those games , a few flares , broken seats and bogs and aggro , welcome to the passion of a derby game What stirred those 'passions' last night then? How many of our starting XI last night would they know if they smacked them with a wet mackerel? There was genuine needle in the 90s when there was something at stake, which made it at least understandable if not acceptable. Last night was a kids' game, it was just an excuse for some bellends to get tanked up and cause trouble. I think it would of been the same even if we had beat them 4-0
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 5, 2018 16:13:04 GMT
Just because 'it happens' doesn't make it ok though. They're still utter fucking morons who threaten to ruin it for people who just want to support their team and enjoy a game of football. Please tell me where I have said it is okay or condoned what happened? This is getting even more boring than work now, we're not going to agree, so let's leave it. You’ve made excuses for them throughout the thread. The gist of your argument has been that we shouldn’t talk about it because other clubs have wankers as well.
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