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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 2, 2018 9:48:11 GMT
More than anything this is what needs sorting in Jan. We may have conceded less over the last few games but that’s more down to the defensive way we set up and Jacks ability than the 4 in front of him. We look so vulnerable it’s unbelievable. I like Pieters and Williams has improved but we need to get in a younger pacier CB because right now this weakness is costing us hugely. How many games have we had where the opposition have literally scored with their only attacks. Our mistrust of the back 4 is meaning we’re attacking with the handbrake on. It needs sorting in Jan.
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Post by Linx on Dec 2, 2018 9:56:19 GMT
Is it? How about an attack that could have put the game out of sight by scoring four goals against a poor side? It was a misjudged substitution and endgame plan that cost us yesterday. We should have kept on the front foot right to the end.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Dec 2, 2018 9:59:59 GMT
I agree especially about the need for a quicker centre back. We were also incredibly open in wide areas yesterday, Erik was nearly always left one on one and Ince was ultimately at fault for their second goal. We ended up with the ridiculous XI at the end because we were so worried about their left side. With pace at the back we could cope with any 2 of Woods, Allen, Etebo and Clucas in midfield allowing us to play a real number 10 or second striker. Our inability/unwillingness to drive through the middle yesterday let them off the hook
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 2, 2018 10:02:20 GMT
More than anything this is what needs sorting in Jan. We may have conceded less over the last few games but that’s more down to the defensive way we set up and Jacks ability than the 4 in front of him. We look so vulnerable it’s unbelievable. I like Pieters and Williams has improved but we need to get in a younger pacier CB because right now this weakness is costing us hugely. How many games have we had where the opposition have literally scored with their only attacks. Our mistrust of the back 4 is meaning we’re attacking with the handbrake on. It needs sorting in Jan. Agreed. When we do mount an attack we often look excellent and if we took even an average percentage of our good chances we would have scored a lot of goals this season. But our defence, as often as not looks like an accident waiting to happen. Even our clean sheets have often not been remotely convincing. I can accept one of the cb's being short of pace but long on experience - but I don't think it works if both are in that bracket. And attacking full backs are a great feature of the game but they should both be able to defend as just as well as the more traditional defensive full back.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 2, 2018 10:02:30 GMT
I just don’t think he trusts the defence to do what they’re supposed to and the players that were conceding bucketloads at the start of the season are still there. They’re being better that’s all which will of course means something else has to give. Both goals yesterday could have been avoided.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 10:12:39 GMT
Would a bona fide destroyer in midfield solve a few problems? Would it create other problems?
Would it give him the comfort blanket he obviously needs? Or would we have still ended up with a negative back five and a destroyer sat in front?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 2, 2018 10:21:07 GMT
Would a bona fide destroyer in midfield solve a few problems? Would it create other problems? Would it give him the comfort blanket he obviously needs? Or would we have still ended up with a negative back five and a destroyer sat in front? It probably would help but it would open up a problem re who misses out from Allen, Woods, Clucas and Allen. I just think if we had a better more mobile back 4 it would be sufficient. I get that MF has to cover but right now our goals are being put down to McClean or Ince not defending. Surely isn’t that the job of the back 4.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 2, 2018 10:36:38 GMT
More than anything this is what needs sorting in Jan. We may have conceded less over the last few games but that’s more down to the defensive way we set up and Jacks ability than the 4 in front of him. We look so vulnerable it’s unbelievable. I like Pieters and Williams has improved but we need to get in a younger pacier CB because right now this weakness is costing us hugely. How many games have we had where the opposition have literally scored with their only attacks. Our mistrust of the back 4 is meaning we’re attacking with the handbrake on. It needs sorting in Jan. I couldn't agree more. We look so vulnerable at the back when we meet pacy players. I guess all our three central defenders are OK, but only if paired with a pacy player. Together they simply are too slow. My choice of the three is Ryan because he is superior to the others in the air, and we certainly need such a player with all the other midgets we have (Woods, Allen, Etebo). Also both Williams and Indi lack a bit of height as central defenders. Pieters possesses decent pace, but I think this is Tom Edwards' biggest problem, he is simply too slow to become a very good fullback. He is certainly decent, but pace is the one thing you really can't compensate 100% for. Pieters is very injury prone and it also seems like he is on his way out if Ncastle follow up the interest in him. For me a central defender with pace like Ajayi (Rotherham), a left back like Brynjar Meling (Rosenborg) and a right back with pace should be the priority (I would give Bauer another go though). I would also bring in a young left winger with pace and the ability to beat a fullback. I think it's time to get rid of Fletcher, Adam, Bojan and Diouf as well. Those players don't have a future at Stoke now so we better get rid ASAP. I'd keep Crouch for the season as our plan B if needed.
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Post by sportsman on Dec 2, 2018 10:49:12 GMT
It's a bit like man utds problem. You can have a really good forward line, but if you know the guys behind are either slow, low in confidence, or generally shit, it does have an effect on how you can attack with confidence.
You know as a forward that if you lose the ball with those kind of players behind you, you're in trouble.
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Post by Picasso on Dec 2, 2018 11:08:07 GMT
In the last 11 games, we have the best defensive record in the league.
We do need a pacier centre back and our recent defensive improvement is surely, at least partly, because of our set up, but that’s a decent turnaround from the goals we were conceding earlier in the season. Unfortunately, the better defensive record comes with limited attacking intent!
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Post by Fred Merger on Dec 2, 2018 11:57:35 GMT
Shawcross and Pieters have needed replacing for a long time. Williams has settled down Bruno needs to be alongside him. A new LB in January and a younger right sided CB and we can still get into the playoffs.
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Post by gingerninja on Dec 2, 2018 12:01:00 GMT
For the equaliser yesterday, the ball was played to feet inside the 6 yard box, that alone is scandalous!!!
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 2, 2018 12:11:31 GMT
Totally agree.
Rowett is a fucking mug anyway but if he's staying and wants to avoid a complete humiliation this season he needs new defenders asap, we need pace and athleticism back there
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Dec 2, 2018 12:27:59 GMT
Im sure we do need more pace at the back , having seen the goals on TV seemed on both the right back drawn to the ball and his man found space , its those little things that make a big difference , the lad took the equaliser well but the defending looked tame
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Post by canadianmoose on Dec 2, 2018 12:33:26 GMT
It’s been a problem for about 3 years now. Ever since the penalty against shawcross for “grappling” it seems to be the end of anybody being able to put a foot in as well.
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 2, 2018 13:00:20 GMT
Talking to a QPR fan at work last week , Cameron has transformed their performances at the back and given them confidence to go on a great run . He can't believe we are considering him surplus to requirements
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Dec 2, 2018 13:08:33 GMT
Talking to a QPR fan at work last week , Cameron has transformed their performances at the back and given them confidence to go on a great run . He can't believe we are considering him surplus to requirements It was mental at the time, I was baffled when he was on so many posters' "out" lists.
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 2, 2018 13:27:32 GMT
Talking to a QPR fan at work last week , Cameron has transformed their performances at the back and given them confidence to go on a great run . He can't believe we are considering him surplus to requirements It was mental at the time, I was baffled when he was on so many posters' "out" lists. I always liked Cameron , his long term injuries were his problem .
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Post by Godo on Dec 2, 2018 13:38:45 GMT
For me we STILL need at least one centre back and a left back. However across the squad there is a lack of quality cover if we had injuries e.g. Diouf for Ince, Fletcher for Wood etc. The problem is shit recruitment for 3 seasons and too many has been or wankers on the wage bill.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 13:41:53 GMT
Talking to a QPR fan at work last week , Cameron has transformed their performances at the back and given them confidence to go on a great run . He can't believe we are considering him surplus to requirements There was an article in the press over the summer where Cameron said that he wanted to leave regardless of whether we stayed up or not, so it isn't that we considered him surplus. He just wanted to leave.
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Post by fca47 on Dec 2, 2018 13:49:50 GMT
Think the biggest problem overall is the motivation of the team, we always seem to need to go behind or have someone sent off to get some resolve. The players seem to be satisfied to pass amongst themselves and smugy think we are doing ok. They don't have the killer instinct to go for the jugular. That's down to the complacency of the management, not demanding more from them.
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Post by rawli on Dec 2, 2018 16:07:36 GMT
I think if we can still stay in touch, with 2 new defenders we could go on a run and sneak it back up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 16:09:21 GMT
Because our defenders aren't good at defending 1-on-1, we have to defend by sitting deep.
When we do that, we lose attacking threat because we can't get numbers forward quickly enough and we lose our out ball (unless Saido has a corker like vs Derby).
One or two better centre halves with pace would make a huge difference because we could trust them to defend on their own.
Joe Allen doesn't help either, he's a ghost defensively.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 2, 2018 16:16:00 GMT
Talking to a QPR fan at work last week , Cameron has transformed their performances at the back and given them confidence to go on a great run . He can't believe we are considering him surplus to requirements "We" didn't, Rowett did. Woods is better than Cameron, who is better than Fletcher. Ryan always seems to me to be going through the motions these days. Williams is sharper than he was but , (is it me?) he doesn't seem to be able to jump very high off the ground. Both CBs have the turning circle of the Titanic.
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Post by pottersrule on Dec 2, 2018 21:57:30 GMT
More than anything this is what needs sorting in Jan. We may have conceded less over the last few games but that’s more down to the defensive way we set up and Jacks ability than the 4 in front of him. We look so vulnerable it’s unbelievable. I like Pieters and Williams has improved but we need to get in a younger pacier CB because right now this weakness is costing us hugely. How many games have we had where the opposition have literally scored with their only attacks. Our mistrust of the back 4 is meaning we’re attacking with the handbrake on. It needs sorting in Jan. We as a team really struggle to see out a game,and this has been the case for a few seasons now.I think the mentality of the team needs changing because when we are winning we sit deeper and deeper and encourage teams to attack us. Attack is the best form of defence imo.
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 2, 2018 22:00:15 GMT
Talking to a QPR fan at work last week , Cameron has transformed their performances at the back and given them confidence to go on a great run . He can't believe we are considering him surplus to requirements "We" didn't, Rowett did. Woods is better than Cameron, who is better than Fletcher. Ryan always seems to me to be going through the motions these days. Williams is sharper than he was but , (is it me?) he doesn't seem to be able to jump very high off the ground. Both CBs have the turning circle of the Titanic. Is Woods better than Cameron? Only by a gnat's cock if so. Another jobbing Championship footballer.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 2, 2018 22:16:52 GMT
"We" didn't, Rowett did. Woods is better than Cameron, who is better than Fletcher. Ryan always seems to me to be going through the motions these days. Williams is sharper than he was but , (is it me?) he doesn't seem to be able to jump very high off the ground. Both CBs have the turning circle of the Titanic. Is Woods better than Cameron? Only by a gnat's cock if so. Another jobbing Championship footballer. They’re very different types of player. Woods is a far better footballer but Geoff is a far better stopper / DM. The 2 would actually be a good combination at this level.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 3, 2018 2:02:29 GMT
Is it? How about an attack that could have put the game out of sight by scoring four goals against a poor side? It was a misjudged substitution and endgame plan that cost us yesterday. We should have kept on the front foot right to the end. Agreed with the sub but I don't think our attack is all that bad, we've shown we can score goals but its getting thrown away time again by the inept performance of those at the back, take the equaliser for example, sub aside there are 5 defenders on the pitch, there's no way they should be able to score like that if they do their job, we need 2 cbs imo, Shawcross is unfortunately a spent force and I've never really thought much of Indi.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 3, 2018 2:04:16 GMT
Would a bona fide destroyer in midfield solve a few problems? Would it create other problems? Would it give him the comfort blanket he obviously needs? Or would we have still ended up with a negative back five and a destroyer sat in front? It probably would help but it would open up a problem re who misses out from Allen, Woods, Clucas and Allen. I just think if we had a better more mobile back 4 it would be sufficient. I get that MF has to cover but right now our goals are being put down to McClean or Ince not defending. Surely isn’t that the job of the back 4. Clucas on the left with a proper destroyer could work, but it still leaves Shawcross looking like a Sunday league player at the back.
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Post by milky on Dec 3, 2018 8:49:52 GMT
We look as much likely to concede when we go all defensive as we do when we take the game to the opposition, as Saturday proved.
Most of the goals we concede are stupid individual mistakes or players not doing their job properly.
We have the squad that should have made top 6 no problem but the manager is holding us back.
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