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Post by felonious on Nov 28, 2018 16:58:49 GMT
I don’t take veganism as a personal affront can you say that vegans don’t take my meat eating as a personal affront And I can assure you as a meat eater I find not a single thing that makes me feel uncomfortable about my lifestyle choice acept maybe it could be cheaper I know many meat eaters and the one thing they have never said is they feel guilty If your conscience is clear that’s fine. I didn’t say the unease about it affected everyone. But try being veggie or vegan for like a day, you will find that people very much take it personally. Changed the header just in case you were feeling the pressure
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 28, 2018 17:06:16 GMT
If your conscience is clear that’s fine. I didn’t say the unease about it affected everyone. But try being veggie or vegan for like a day, you will find that people very much take it personally. One of my sons has been veggie for about 6 years we can happily co exist and he is perfectly happy to cook me a bacon sandwich It is not what someone chooses to eat that is the problem It’s the person that chooses that causes the problem Who said you can't co-exist? Mate I'm not saying it's you, but *anybody* who is a vegetarian will know the indignant and unwelcome (not to mention deathly boring) oh-so-you're-a-vegetarian-well-what-about-such-and-such interrogation that they're subjected to periodically. You seem to be taking my saying that people take it as a personal affront, as a personal affront... Out of interest if your son said to you "look dad, I'm vegetarian because I don't agree with the mistreatment and slaughter of animals for our consumption, so I'd really rather not fry bacon up for you if you don't mind" would you think he was being unreasonable and "causing a problem"?
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Post by yeokel on Nov 28, 2018 17:19:18 GMT
I don’t take veganism as a personal affront can you say that vegans don’t take my meat eating as a personal affront And I can assure you as a meat eater I find not a single thing that makes me feel uncomfortable about my lifestyle choice acept maybe it could be cheaper I know many meat eaters and the one thing they have never said is they feel guilty If your conscience is clear that’s fine. I didn’t say the unease about it affected everyone. But try being veggie or vegan for like a day, you will find that people very much take it personally. “ But try being veggie or vegan for like a day, you will find that people very much take it personally.” Spot on! I’ve been veggie since 1980 (roughly 39 years) and in all that time I’ve never asked anyone why they are choosing to eat meat, why are they eating fish, or octopus, or kangaroo steaks, or salad or spag bol, or anything else. They are free to eat whatever they want as far as I am concerned. In that same time, I’ve been asked why I’m a veggie hundreds and hundreds of times. People look at you as if you are from a different planet when you order the veggie option (there is frequently only one) from a menu, having not noticed that there are actually millions (probably even billions once India & China are included) of us all over the world. Then they start dangling bits of bacon or some shite in front of me as they sputter “I bet you miss bacon don’t you?”, “you’d love a t-bone steak wouldn’t you?”, “how’s your lettuce leaf?” and lots of similar crap. You are right in that they seem to take it personally as if they feel the need to demonstrate how ‘normal’ they are and how absolutely ‘abnormal’ you must be. I’ve never felt the need to do anything like that and wonder why so many always seem to feel this urge? I take the points about the radical vegan wankers on this thread but I would repeat again that, in my experience, they are a very small minority and are not representative of the vast majority of veggies and vegans in any way. Harumph!!
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Post by yeokel on Nov 28, 2018 17:20:19 GMT
If your conscience is clear that’s fine. I didn’t say the unease about it affected everyone. But try being veggie or vegan for like a day, you will find that people very much take it personally. Changed the header just in case you were feeling the pressure I love it
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 28, 2018 17:25:07 GMT
You are right in that they seem to take it personally as if they feel the need to demonstrate how ‘normal’ they are and how absolutely ‘abnormal’ you must be. I’ve never felt the need to do anything like that and wonder why so many always seem to feel this urge? As suggested further up, my inkling is that it's because deep down they perceive that their own choices are being questioned, feel uncomfortable about it and immediately go on the defensive (or offensive).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 18:49:40 GMT
I did veggie for 10 years and vegan for 3.
Found Veggie fine. And as mentioned plenty of 'But don't you miss meat" etc
Found Vegan to be a real pain in the arse and beyond difficult but I stuck to it and I probably shouldnt have, plenty of people do it and do it well, I was not one of them.
Someone nailed it above when they said there's no higher proportion of cuntheads who are vegan. Correct, but those that are loudmouths are a more intense breed of shithouse in my opinion.
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Nov 28, 2018 19:40:41 GMT
I wish I were a marathon runner so I could tell those vegans about it. There's nothing stopping you.
www.veganrunners.org.uk/
No doubt the insurance salesmen in that group are its most popular members.
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Post by felonious on Nov 29, 2018 6:24:52 GMT
No doubt the insurance salesmen in that group are its most popular members. I know one of them mate. Don't tell Yeokel or Potterlog but he was sound
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 29, 2018 9:20:34 GMT
If your conscience is clear that’s fine. I didn’t say the unease about it affected everyone. But try being veggie or vegan for like a day, you will find that people very much take it personally. “ But try being veggie or vegan for like a day, you will find that people very much take it personally.” Spot on! I’ve been veggie since 1980 (roughly 39 years) and in all that time I’ve never asked anyone why they are choosing to eat meat, why are they eating fish, or octopus, or kangaroo steaks, or salad or spag bol, or anything else. They are free to eat whatever they want as far as I am concerned. In that same time, I’ve been asked why I’m a veggie hundreds and hundreds of times. People look at you as if you are from a different planet when you order the veggie option (there is frequently only one) from a menu, having not noticed that there are actually millions (probably even billions once India & China are included) of us all over the world. Then they start dangling bits of bacon or some shite in front of me as they sputter “I bet you miss bacon don’t you?”, “you’d love a t-bone steak wouldn’t you?”, “how’s your lettuce leaf?” and lots of similar crap. You are right in that they seem to take it personally as if they feel the need to demonstrate how ‘normal’ they are and how absolutely ‘abnormal’ you must be. I’ve never felt the need to do anything like that and wonder why so many always seem to feel this urge? I take the points about the radical vegan wankers on this thread but I would repeat again that, in my experience, they are a very small minority and are not representative of the vast majority of veggies and vegans in any way. Harumph!! I agree full that the vast majority of veggies and vegans are fine But I personally think they would do themselves a big favour if they turned round and did the not in my name bit against the militants The silence of the majority is allowing the minority to set the agenda
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Post by musik on Nov 29, 2018 9:33:13 GMT
I had a relative who was an Animal and only ate and drank meat, fish, liver, kidneys, tongue, cheese, milk and blood.
I have Vegetarian friends who don't eat meat or drink blood.
I have Vegan friends who basically only eat fruit and vegetables, and drink water and juice.
Most of us eat most things.
But it's not up to us humans to judge anyone, what they're eating or wearing or not. That comes later. Life is all about expectations and what level you're on.
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Post by plug on Nov 29, 2018 17:21:43 GMT
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Post by felonious on Nov 29, 2018 17:35:56 GMT
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Post by felonious on Nov 29, 2018 17:38:31 GMT
This reminded me of the old man who used to rear poultry for the oven. I remember him calling one particular bird by the name Paxo.
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Moosehead
Youth Player
Posts: 305
Location: Nottingham
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Post by Moosehead on Nov 29, 2018 17:42:59 GMT
I'm pretty much vegan these days, but its a fucking joke some of the shite the protesters come out with. It does no-one any good. As someone said way up the thread, this is a bloke just doing his job, and seemingly trying to raise awareness of where food comes from.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Dec 1, 2018 19:29:29 GMT
Vegan's at it again. ... Love the responce they got Follow-up. What a surprise, another daughter of a multi-millionaire telling working class people how to live their lives.
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Post by felonious on Dec 3, 2018 6:13:38 GMT
It's a religious experience for your everyday ethical vegan with a "companion animal"
Sacked vegan claims discrimination in landmark case
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46385597
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Post by Dutchpeter on Dec 3, 2018 10:50:04 GMT
I fucking hate the 21st Century.
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Post by metalhead on Dec 3, 2018 10:58:05 GMT
It's a religious experience for your everyday ethical vegan with a "companion animal"
Sacked vegan claims discrimination in landmark case
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46385597
Honestly, if this guy wins in court, then all bets are off. "I was sacked because of my philisophical belief in wearing ethically sourced Fred Perry polo shirts". I love how ambiguous the article on the BBC is, just drip feeding you enough information that you side with him rather than the charity. 25 seconds on Google reveals that the reason they sacked him was for gross misconduct for leaking sensitive information. He claims it was because he e-mailed his colleagues, but it appears he essentially brought the company into disrepute by broadcasting the changes in pension investments to a wider audience. He leaked sensitive information because it suited his cause and agenda. His sacking is nothing to do with his Veganism. His actions on the other hand are directly linked to his Veganism. His sacking, I suspect is down to violating an NDA. My company would sack me, if I did the same. Absolute chancer. Hope they throw it out in the first 15 minutes. Awaits yeokel to accuse me of being mean to vegans again
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Post by yeokel on Dec 3, 2018 19:21:04 GMT
It's a religious experience for your everyday ethical vegan with a "companion animal"
Sacked vegan claims discrimination in landmark case
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46385597
Honestly, if this guy wins in court, then all bets are off. "I was sacked because of my philisophical belief in wearing ethically sourced Fred Perry polo shirts". I love how ambiguous the article on the BBC is, just drip feeding you enough information that you side with him rather than the charity. 25 seconds on Google reveals that the reason they sacked him was for gross misconduct for leaking sensitive information. He claims it was because he e-mailed his colleagues, but it appears he essentially brought the company into disrepute by broadcasting the changes in pension investments to a wider audience. He leaked sensitive information because it suited his cause and agenda. His sacking is nothing to do with his Veganism. His actions on the other hand are directly linked to his Veganism. His sacking, I suspect is down to violating an NDA. My company would sack me, if I did the same. Absolute chancer. Hope they throw it out in the first 15 minutes. Awaits yeokel to accuse me of being mean to vegans again No, I'm with you on this one. If you read back over the thread, I've actually agreed with virtually all that you've written and only pulled you up when you've got a bit carried away with yourself. I'm sure we can remain buddies for a while longer yet
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Post by metalhead on Dec 3, 2018 20:29:13 GMT
Honestly, if this guy wins in court, then all bets are off. "I was sacked because of my philisophical belief in wearing ethically sourced Fred Perry polo shirts". I love how ambiguous the article on the BBC is, just drip feeding you enough information that you side with him rather than the charity. 25 seconds on Google reveals that the reason they sacked him was for gross misconduct for leaking sensitive information. He claims it was because he e-mailed his colleagues, but it appears he essentially brought the company into disrepute by broadcasting the changes in pension investments to a wider audience. He leaked sensitive information because it suited his cause and agenda. His sacking is nothing to do with his Veganism. His actions on the other hand are directly linked to his Veganism. His sacking, I suspect is down to violating an NDA. My company would sack me, if I did the same. Absolute chancer. Hope they throw it out in the first 15 minutes. Awaits yeokel to accuse me of being mean to vegans again No, I'm with you on this one. If you read back over the thread, I've actually agreed with virtually all that you've written and only pulled you up when you've got a bit carried away with yourself. I'm sure we can remain buddies for a while longer yet To be honest, the BBC were debating it earlier and it seemed most vegans agree he's taking the piss. Occasionally though, they received texts accusing them of not being a 'true vegan'. Seems more like a religion to them. Swap vegan for Muslim, Christian etc... Why wouldn't we be buddies
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 10, 2018 22:17:23 GMT
You are right in that they seem to take it personally as if they feel the need to demonstrate how ‘normal’ they are and how absolutely ‘abnormal’ you must be. I’ve never felt the need to do anything like that and wonder why so many always seem to feel this urge? As suggested further up, my inkling is that it's because deep down they perceive that their own choices are being questioned, feel uncomfortable about it and immediately go on the defensive (or offensive). David Mitchell lending a little weight to my suggestion here 😇 “The thing that’s annoying about there suddenly being lots of vegans is the nagging suspicion that they might be right”www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/09/my-beef-with-vegans-says-more-about-me-than-them-david-mitchell
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Post by metalhead on Dec 11, 2018 10:52:44 GMT
Mitchell is correct. They are right..... but for the wrong reasons, if that makes sense? The meat industry is cruel as fuck. Factory farming is absolutely horrific and I'm convinced that most people don't even realise just how cruel it is. However, it is easily explained by socioeconomics... hence why a lot of Vegans are what you might legitimately refer to as 'middle class'. People living on 20 grand a year simply can't afford to shop at Artisan food shops, where a pack of free range eggs (sold with love) is £3 for 6. Factory farming is why Aldi can sell a pack of 10 large eggs for about £1. It is the only reason why the poorest in our country, can still buy something that somewhat qualifies as an actual meal, rather than living on bread and butter everyday, which is what I'm convinced some of these militant animal nutters would prefer. "Nothing like kicking poor people while they're down eh... especially when they don't think like us". I don't believe that anyone 'enjoys' the thought of animals being slaughtered inhumanely, but then again, they also don't enjoy the thought of not having enough money for the gas meter so they're not freezing to death in their own home. It's a tricky one, isn't it? Edit: Just a note.... No. I don't find Vegans annoying for being Vegan whatsoever. That's a lifestyle choice, entirely up to them. I find anyone who thinks their cause should harm other people truly reprehensible and utterly despicable, especially when those people are often the weakest in society.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 11, 2018 12:09:34 GMT
Mitchell is correct. They are right..... but for the wrong reasons, if that makes sense? The meat industry is cruel as fuck. Factory farming is absolutely horrific and I'm convinced that most people don't even realise just how cruel it is. However, it is easily explained by socioeconomics... hence why a lot of Vegans are what you might legitimately refer to as 'middle class'. People living on 20 grand a year simply can't afford to shop at Artisan food shops, where a pack of free range eggs (sold with love) is £3 for 6. Factory farming is why Aldi can sell a pack of 10 large eggs for about £1. It is the only reason why the poorest in our country, can still buy something that somewhat qualifies as an actual meal, rather than living on bread and butter everyday, which is what I'm convinced some of these militant animal nutters would prefer. "Nothing like kicking poor people while they're down eh... especially when they don't think like us". I don't believe that anyone 'enjoys' the thought of animals being slaughtered inhumanely, but then again, they also don't enjoy the thought of not having enough money for the gas meter so they're not freezing to death in their own home. It's a tricky one, isn't it? Edit: Just a note.... No. I don't find Vegans annoying for being Vegan whatsoever. That's a lifestyle choice, entirely up to them. I find anyone who thinks their cause should harm other people truly reprehensible and utterly despicable, especially when those people are often the weakest in society. All good points, however on the economic issue there's no getting away from the fact that hypothetically, if we were starting the whole food production and distribution industry from scratch, it would be far, far cheaper to feed everyone a nutritious vegan diet than a carnivorous one.
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Post by metalhead on Dec 11, 2018 13:58:37 GMT
Mitchell is correct. They are right..... but for the wrong reasons, if that makes sense? The meat industry is cruel as fuck. Factory farming is absolutely horrific and I'm convinced that most people don't even realise just how cruel it is. However, it is easily explained by socioeconomics... hence why a lot of Vegans are what you might legitimately refer to as 'middle class'. People living on 20 grand a year simply can't afford to shop at Artisan food shops, where a pack of free range eggs (sold with love) is £3 for 6. Factory farming is why Aldi can sell a pack of 10 large eggs for about £1. It is the only reason why the poorest in our country, can still buy something that somewhat qualifies as an actual meal, rather than living on bread and butter everyday, which is what I'm convinced some of these militant animal nutters would prefer. "Nothing like kicking poor people while they're down eh... especially when they don't think like us". I don't believe that anyone 'enjoys' the thought of animals being slaughtered inhumanely, but then again, they also don't enjoy the thought of not having enough money for the gas meter so they're not freezing to death in their own home. It's a tricky one, isn't it? Edit: Just a note.... No. I don't find Vegans annoying for being Vegan whatsoever. That's a lifestyle choice, entirely up to them. I find anyone who thinks their cause should harm other people truly reprehensible and utterly despicable, especially when those people are often the weakest in society. All good points, however on the economic issue there's no getting away from the fact that hypothetically, if we were starting the whole food production and distribution industry from scratch, it would be far, far cheaper to feed everyone a nutritious vegan diet than a carnivorous one. Erm.... yes, I think this is very true... Certainly lean meats are surprisingly expensive, even from discount supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl. Obviously you can pick up cheap and nasty processed stuff for a lot less, which can help families cut costs. You'd need to take long term costings to ascertain whether a plant based diet is 100% cheaper. Don't forget, the sense of satisfaction is what stops you eating more food and therefore, in effect, spending more. We are deep down the rabbit hole now. Meat is here to stay and the idea of prohibition would simply not work in the UK. I have actually spoken to Vegans who openly admit they do miss the taste of certain meat products. I suspect it's the maillard effect when cooking which gives meat products that sensational and unique flavour. So, if we're honest..... starting again isn't an option. We absolutely need to tighten up legislation on the meat industry. They need to find ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable. Factory farming makes me shudder even now. Good thing I don't eat anywhere near as much meat as most.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 11, 2018 16:02:06 GMT
All good points, however on the economic issue there's no getting away from the fact that hypothetically, if we were starting the whole food production and distribution industry from scratch, it would be far, far cheaper to feed everyone a nutritious vegan diet than a carnivorous one. Erm.... yes, I think this is very true... Certainly lean meats are surprisingly expensive, even from discount supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl. Obviously you can pick up cheap and nasty processed stuff for a lot less, which can help families cut costs. You'd need to take long term costings to ascertain whether a plant based diet is 100% cheaper. Don't forget, the sense of satisfaction is what stops you eating more food and therefore, in effect, spending more. We are deep down the rabbit hole now. Meat is here to stay and the idea of prohibition would simply not work in the UK. I have actually spoken to Vegans who openly admit they do miss the taste of certain meat products. I suspect it's the maillard effect when cooking which gives meat products that sensational and unique flavour. So, if we're honest..... starting again isn't an option. We absolutely need to tighten up legislation on the meat industry. They need to find ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable. Factory farming makes me shudder even now. Good thing I don't eat anywhere near as much meat as most. Any "prohibition" is a silly idea now but it's possible we're edging closer to a situation where eating meat is seen as something fringe and a bit looked-down-upon, like what happened with smoking. On the topic of the industry, I appreciate the "tightening up" argument but I think it's sidestepping the issue a bit. I don't think "finding ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable" is possible at all. The reason factory farming exists is because the demand is so high that meat has to be mass-produced just like everything else. Sure it's possible to raise animals ethically and minimise suffering, but you're only going to produce a tiny fraction of the meat necessary. The core issue is the global demand. We'd need a massive-scale reduction in meat consumption (I'd say 90%+) to make widespread ethical farming remotely viable. And yeah, I know plenty vegans who miss the taste of meat. Bacon tastes good - giving it up often has nothing to do with the pleasure of eating it. The panacea to all of this, and the thing I'm massively crossing my fingers for in the coming years/decades, is the industrialisation of lab-grown meat.
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Post by metalhead on Dec 11, 2018 17:04:09 GMT
Erm.... yes, I think this is very true... Certainly lean meats are surprisingly expensive, even from discount supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl. Obviously you can pick up cheap and nasty processed stuff for a lot less, which can help families cut costs. You'd need to take long term costings to ascertain whether a plant based diet is 100% cheaper. Don't forget, the sense of satisfaction is what stops you eating more food and therefore, in effect, spending more. We are deep down the rabbit hole now. Meat is here to stay and the idea of prohibition would simply not work in the UK. I have actually spoken to Vegans who openly admit they do miss the taste of certain meat products. I suspect it's the maillard effect when cooking which gives meat products that sensational and unique flavour. So, if we're honest..... starting again isn't an option. We absolutely need to tighten up legislation on the meat industry. They need to find ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable. Factory farming makes me shudder even now. Good thing I don't eat anywhere near as much meat as most. Any "prohibition" is a silly idea now but it's possible we're edging closer to a situation where eating meat is seen as something fringe and a bit looked-down-upon, like what happened with smoking. On the topic of the industry, I appreciate the "tightening up" argument but I think it's sidestepping the issue a bit. I don't think "finding ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable" is possible at all. The reason factory farming exists is because the demand is so high that meat has to be mass-produced just like everything else. Sure it's possible to raise animals ethically and minimise suffering, but you're only going to produce a tiny fraction of the meat necessary. The core issue is the global demand. We'd need a massive-scale reduction in meat consumption (I'd say 90%+) to make widespread ethical farming remotely viable. And yeah, I know plenty vegans who miss the taste of meat. Bacon tastes good - giving it up often has nothing to do with the pleasure of eating it. The panacea to all of this, and the thing I'm massively crossing my fingers for in the coming years/decades, is the industrialisation of lab-grown meat. I've been calling for lab grown meat for years, but the last time it was on the table, you had all the other 'bat-shit' crazies coming out and saying it's unethical. So eating meat is unethical, synthetic meat is unethical.... the only thing that isn't unethical is dying of starvation. Welcome to 2018.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 11, 2018 17:28:40 GMT
Erm.... yes, I think this is very true... Certainly lean meats are surprisingly expensive, even from discount supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl. Obviously you can pick up cheap and nasty processed stuff for a lot less, which can help families cut costs. You'd need to take long term costings to ascertain whether a plant based diet is 100% cheaper. Don't forget, the sense of satisfaction is what stops you eating more food and therefore, in effect, spending more. We are deep down the rabbit hole now. Meat is here to stay and the idea of prohibition would simply not work in the UK. I have actually spoken to Vegans who openly admit they do miss the taste of certain meat products. I suspect it's the maillard effect when cooking which gives meat products that sensational and unique flavour. So, if we're honest..... starting again isn't an option. We absolutely need to tighten up legislation on the meat industry. They need to find ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable. Factory farming makes me shudder even now. Good thing I don't eat anywhere near as much meat as most. Any "prohibition" is a silly idea now but it's possible we're edging closer to a situation where eating meat is seen as something fringe and a bit looked-down-upon, like what happened with smoking. On the topic of the industry, I appreciate the "tightening up" argument but I think it's sidestepping the issue a bit. I don't think "finding ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable" is possible at all. The reason factory farming exists is because the demand is so high that meat has to be mass-produced just like everything else. Sure it's possible to raise animals ethically and minimise suffering, but you're only going to produce a tiny fraction of the meat necessary. The core issue is the global demand. We'd need a massive-scale reduction in meat consumption (I'd say 90%+) to make widespread ethical farming remotely viable. And yeah, I know plenty vegans who miss the taste of meat. Bacon tastes good - giving it up often has nothing to do with the pleasure of eating it. The panacea to all of this, and the thing I'm massively crossing my fingers for in the coming years/decades, is the industrialisation of lab-grown meat. Has not a test tube or Petrie dish got feelings
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Post by felonious on Dec 12, 2018 7:24:32 GMT
Erm.... yes, I think this is very true... Certainly lean meats are surprisingly expensive, even from discount supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl. Obviously you can pick up cheap and nasty processed stuff for a lot less, which can help families cut costs. You'd need to take long term costings to ascertain whether a plant based diet is 100% cheaper. Don't forget, the sense of satisfaction is what stops you eating more food and therefore, in effect, spending more. We are deep down the rabbit hole now. Meat is here to stay and the idea of prohibition would simply not work in the UK. I have actually spoken to Vegans who openly admit they do miss the taste of certain meat products. I suspect it's the maillard effect when cooking which gives meat products that sensational and unique flavour. So, if we're honest..... starting again isn't an option. We absolutely need to tighten up legislation on the meat industry. They need to find ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable. Factory farming makes me shudder even now. Good thing I don't eat anywhere near as much meat as most. Any "prohibition" is a silly idea now but it's possible we're edging closer to a situation where eating meat is seen as something fringe and a bit looked-down-upon, like what happened with smoking. On the topic of the industry, I appreciate the "tightening up" argument but I think it's sidestepping the issue a bit. I don't think "finding ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable" is possible at all. The reason factory farming exists is because the demand is so high that meat has to be mass-produced just like everything else. Sure it's possible to raise animals ethically and minimise suffering, but you're only going to produce a tiny fraction of the meat necessary. The core issue is the global demand. We'd need a massive-scale reduction in meat consumption (I'd say 90%+) to make widespread ethical farming remotely viable. And yeah, I know plenty vegans who miss the taste of meat. Bacon tastes good - giving it up often has nothing to do with the pleasure of eating it. The panacea to all of this, and the thing I'm massively crossing my fingers for in the coming years/decades, is the industrialisation of lab-grown meat. You need to get out of your little bubble a bit more
The vast majority out there don't give a shit about veganism and the thought never enters there head. The chattering classes now that's a different story
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 12, 2018 10:07:32 GMT
Any "prohibition" is a silly idea now but it's possible we're edging closer to a situation where eating meat is seen as something fringe and a bit looked-down-upon, like what happened with smoking. On the topic of the industry, I appreciate the "tightening up" argument but I think it's sidestepping the issue a bit. I don't think "finding ways of cutting costs that aren't morally questionable" is possible at all. The reason factory farming exists is because the demand is so high that meat has to be mass-produced just like everything else. Sure it's possible to raise animals ethically and minimise suffering, but you're only going to produce a tiny fraction of the meat necessary. The core issue is the global demand. We'd need a massive-scale reduction in meat consumption (I'd say 90%+) to make widespread ethical farming remotely viable. And yeah, I know plenty vegans who miss the taste of meat. Bacon tastes good - giving it up often has nothing to do with the pleasure of eating it. The panacea to all of this, and the thing I'm massively crossing my fingers for in the coming years/decades, is the industrialisation of lab-grown meat. You need to get out of your little bubble a bit more
The vast majority out there don't give a shit about veganism and the thought never enters there head. The chattering classes now that's a different story
I never claimed they did, although as metal points out, I think a lot more people would show concern about industrial farming when confronted with the realities of it. Also it’s undeniable that the majority is becoming slightly less vast every day...
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Post by metalhead on Dec 12, 2018 10:40:09 GMT
You need to get out of your little bubble a bit more
The vast majority out there don't give a shit about veganism and the thought never enters there head. The chattering classes now that's a different story
I never claimed they did, although as metal points out, I think a lot more people would show concern about industrial farming when confronted with the realities of it. Also it’s undeniable that the majority is becoming slightly less vast every day... Nobody with morals can actually support the current methods of industrial farming. It's a very complex subject though....
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