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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 20, 2019 15:58:42 GMT
Keeping the politics out of it can we get to the morally right thing to do or best law for it. I to thought it should be the bakers right to refuse, hes clearly being provoked (if that was their intention). However someone pointed out though I spose its a stretch religion to race.. That you wouldnt refuse service to say a black man or a russian.. miner... or office worker and so on because you dont like them. When you consider it like that it really is discrimination (presuming there is no other alternative) I hope the couple get what they deserve for stunt, but it is hard to genuinely be against it from a morale standpoint. Maybe Im wrong who knows, I dont know just my understanding It is an awkward one, isn't it? I wonder what would have happened if he had gone to an Islamic bakery? Would they be OK with it(perhaps they would?) and would he have made so much fuss about them if they refused?
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Post by salopstick on Aug 20, 2019 20:45:21 GMT
I do think the story is getting told slightly wrong
They did not refuse the business because the customers were gay, black Moslem or members of any other descriminated against minority group.
They refused to do what the customer asked because it was against their beliefs. They were more than happy to bake the cake.
You could argue that the slogan was as offensive to them as slogans promoting isis or racism. In that case no one should be forced to do something they are not comfortable with.
The customers have not been descriminated against.
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Post by eebygum on Aug 20, 2019 21:29:30 GMT
“society is intrinsically elitist,” sez debord; 'oweva, accordin ter hubbard, tint sa much society 'a' is intrinsically elitist, bur ratha t' stasis o' society. i' eur sense, modernism suggests 'at consciousness serves ta entrench 'ierarchy, bur onny if culture is interchangeable wi' consciousness; if 'a' is not t' case, baudrillard’s model o' derridaist readin is 'un o' “subdialectic libertarianism”, 'n therefooar eur legal fiction. t' meeam theme o' t' works o' smith is a deconstructi' reality. the primary theme o' de selby’s critique o' modernism is t' role o' t' participant as reada. bur t' subject is interpolated into eur derridaist readin 'a' includes narrativity as eur paradox. sartre promotes the use o' neostructuralist nationalism ta challenge capitalism. it could be sez 'a' marx’s model o' postcapitalist theory implies 'at expression belongs t' collecti' unconscious. eur numba o' discourses concernin derridaist readin may be discovered. but derrideur uses t' term ‘neostructuralist nationalism’ ta denote t' common groun' atwixt sexual identity 'n class. t' dialectic paradigm o' reality states 'a' t' goal o' t' artist is social comment, given 'a' t' premise o' derridaist readin is invalid. thus, debut suggests t' use o' modernism ta read sexual identity. i' clerks, smith denies neostructuralist nationalism; i' chasing amy, although, 'e examines modernism. in eur sense, baudrillard’s essay on neostructuralist nationalism suggests tha' t' medieur is part o' t' rubicon o' consciousness. derrideur promotes t' use o' derridaist readin ta attack ahtmoded perceptions o' truth
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 20, 2019 21:39:08 GMT
“society is intrinsically elitist,” sez debord; 'oweva, accordin ter hubbard, tint sa much society 'a' is intrinsically elitist, bur ratha t' stasis o' society. i' eur sense, modernism suggests 'at consciousness serves ta entrench 'ierarchy, bur onny if culture is interchangeable wi' consciousness; if 'a' is not t' case, baudrillard’s model o' derridaist readin is 'un o' “subdialectic libertarianism”, 'n therefooar eur legal fiction. t' meeam theme o' t' works o' smith is a deconstructi' reality. the primary theme o' de selby’s critique o' modernism is t' role o' t' participant as reada. bur t' subject is interpolated into eur derridaist readin 'a' includes narrativity as eur paradox. sartre promotes the use o' neostructuralist nationalism ta challenge capitalism. it could be sez 'a' marx’s model o' postcapitalist theory implies 'at expression belongs t' collecti' unconscious. eur numba o' discourses concernin derridaist readin may be discovered. but derrideur uses t' term ‘neostructuralist nationalism’ ta denote t' common groun' atwixt sexual identity 'n class. t' dialectic paradigm o' reality states 'a' t' goal o' t' artist is social comment, given 'a' t' premise o' derridaist readin is invalid. thus, debut suggests t' use o' modernism ta read sexual identity. i' clerks, smith denies neostructuralist nationalism; i' chasing amy, although, 'e examines modernism. in eur sense, baudrillard’s essay on neostructuralist nationalism suggests tha' t' medieur is part o' t' rubicon o' consciousness. derrideur promotes t' use o' derridaist readin ta attack ahtmoded perceptions o' truth Oh come on, even you can surely see this is insane.
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 20, 2019 21:43:53 GMT
“society is intrinsically elitist,” sez debord; 'oweva, accordin ter hubbard, tint sa much society 'a' is intrinsically elitist, bur ratha t' stasis o' society. i' eur sense, modernism suggests 'at consciousness serves ta entrench 'ierarchy, bur onny if culture is interchangeable wi' consciousness; if 'a' is not t' case, baudrillard’s model o' derridaist readin is 'un o' “subdialectic libertarianism”, 'n therefooar eur legal fiction. t' meeam theme o' t' works o' smith is a deconstructi' reality. the primary theme o' de selby’s critique o' modernism is t' role o' t' participant as reada. bur t' subject is interpolated into eur derridaist readin 'a' includes narrativity as eur paradox. sartre promotes the use o' neostructuralist nationalism ta challenge capitalism. it could be sez 'a' marx’s model o' postcapitalist theory implies 'at expression belongs t' collecti' unconscious. eur numba o' discourses concernin derridaist readin may be discovered. but derrideur uses t' term ‘neostructuralist nationalism’ ta denote t' common groun' atwixt sexual identity 'n class. t' dialectic paradigm o' reality states 'a' t' goal o' t' artist is social comment, given 'a' t' premise o' derridaist readin is invalid. thus, debut suggests t' use o' modernism ta read sexual identity. i' clerks, smith denies neostructuralist nationalism; i' chasing amy, although, 'e examines modernism. in eur sense, baudrillard’s essay on neostructuralist nationalism suggests tha' t' medieur is part o' t' rubicon o' consciousness. derrideur promotes t' use o' derridaist readin ta attack ahtmoded perceptions o' truth I have liked it because i like a challenge but i don't understand any of it.....yet.
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Post by eebygum on Aug 21, 2019 8:11:35 GMT
“society is intrinsically elitist,” sez debord; 'oweva, accordin ter hubbard, tint sa much society 'a' is intrinsically elitist, bur ratha t' stasis o' society. i' eur sense, modernism suggests 'at consciousness serves ta entrench 'ierarchy, bur onny if culture is interchangeable wi' consciousness; if 'a' is not t' case, baudrillard’s model o' derridaist readin is 'un o' “subdialectic libertarianism”, 'n therefooar eur legal fiction. t' meeam theme o' t' works o' smith is a deconstructi' reality. the primary theme o' de selby’s critique o' modernism is t' role o' t' participant as reada. bur t' subject is interpolated into eur derridaist readin 'a' includes narrativity as eur paradox. sartre promotes the use o' neostructuralist nationalism ta challenge capitalism. it could be sez 'a' marx’s model o' postcapitalist theory implies 'at expression belongs t' collecti' unconscious. eur numba o' discourses concernin derridaist readin may be discovered. but derrideur uses t' term ‘neostructuralist nationalism’ ta denote t' common groun' atwixt sexual identity 'n class. t' dialectic paradigm o' reality states 'a' t' goal o' t' artist is social comment, given 'a' t' premise o' derridaist readin is invalid. thus, debut suggests t' use o' modernism ta read sexual identity. i' clerks, smith denies neostructuralist nationalism; i' chasing amy, although, 'e examines modernism. in eur sense, baudrillard’s essay on neostructuralist nationalism suggests tha' t' medieur is part o' t' rubicon o' consciousness. derrideur promotes t' use o' derridaist readin ta attack ahtmoded perceptions o' truth Oh come on, even you can surely see this is insane. Skeg felleur, i've gone ta girt lengths ta craft um thoughts. theur can respon' ta 'em or dooant - bur please dooant suggest uz rationale is insane 'cos it doesn't align wi' thy world view
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Post by eebygum on Aug 21, 2019 8:12:28 GMT
“society is intrinsically elitist,” sez debord; 'oweva, accordin ter hubbard, tint sa much society 'a' is intrinsically elitist, bur ratha t' stasis o' society. i' eur sense, modernism suggests 'at consciousness serves ta entrench 'ierarchy, bur onny if culture is interchangeable wi' consciousness; if 'a' is not t' case, baudrillard’s model o' derridaist readin is 'un o' “subdialectic libertarianism”, 'n therefooar eur legal fiction. t' meeam theme o' t' works o' smith is a deconstructi' reality. the primary theme o' de selby’s critique o' modernism is t' role o' t' participant as reada. bur t' subject is interpolated into eur derridaist readin 'a' includes narrativity as eur paradox. sartre promotes the use o' neostructuralist nationalism ta challenge capitalism. it could be sez 'a' marx’s model o' postcapitalist theory implies 'at expression belongs t' collecti' unconscious. eur numba o' discourses concernin derridaist readin may be discovered. but derrideur uses t' term ‘neostructuralist nationalism’ ta denote t' common groun' atwixt sexual identity 'n class. t' dialectic paradigm o' reality states 'a' t' goal o' t' artist is social comment, given 'a' t' premise o' derridaist readin is invalid. thus, debut suggests t' use o' modernism ta read sexual identity. i' clerks, smith denies neostructuralist nationalism; i' chasing amy, although, 'e examines modernism. in eur sense, baudrillard’s essay on neostructuralist nationalism suggests tha' t' medieur is part o' t' rubicon o' consciousness. derrideur promotes t' use o' derridaist readin ta attack ahtmoded perceptions o' truth I have liked it because i like a challenge but i don't understand any of it.....yet. Dis is t' level o' respect ah'm mooar accustomed ta. thank theur
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Post by Frogger Theft Auto on Aug 21, 2019 8:28:49 GMT
I have liked it because i like a challenge but i don't understand any of it.....yet. Dis is t' level o' respect ah'm mooar accustomed ta. thank theur It’s a shame that you post gibberish because whenever you’ve posted in a bit of English it looks like it was a good contribution to the thread. What’s the point in typing phonetically in an accent that nobody can be arsed to read? It must take you ages and everybody just skips over it.
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Post by eebygum on Aug 21, 2019 8:32:16 GMT
Dis is t' level o' respect ah'm mooar accustomed ta. thank theur It’s a shame that you post gibberish because whenever you’ve posted in a bit of English it looks like it was a good contribution to the thread. What’s the point in typing phonetically in an accent that nobody can be arsed to read? It must take you ages and everybody just skips over it. Diversity
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Aug 21, 2019 13:18:44 GMT
“society is intrinsically elitist,” sez debord; 'oweva, accordin ter hubbard, tint sa much society 'a' is intrinsically elitist, bur ratha t' stasis o' society. i' eur sense, modernism suggests 'at consciousness serves ta entrench 'ierarchy, bur onny if culture is interchangeable wi' consciousness; if 'a' is not t' case, baudrillard’s model o' derridaist readin is 'un o' “subdialectic libertarianism”, 'n therefooar eur legal fiction. t' meeam theme o' t' works o' smith is a deconstructi' reality. the primary theme o' de selby’s critique o' modernism is t' role o' t' participant as reada. bur t' subject is interpolated into eur derridaist readin 'a' includes narrativity as eur paradox. sartre promotes the use o' neostructuralist nationalism ta challenge capitalism. it could be sez 'a' marx’s model o' postcapitalist theory implies 'at expression belongs t' collecti' unconscious. eur numba o' discourses concernin derridaist readin may be discovered. but derrideur uses t' term ‘neostructuralist nationalism’ ta denote t' common groun' atwixt sexual identity 'n class. t' dialectic paradigm o' reality states 'a' t' goal o' t' artist is social comment, given 'a' t' premise o' derridaist readin is invalid. thus, debut suggests t' use o' modernism ta read sexual identity. i' clerks, smith denies neostructuralist nationalism; i' chasing amy, although, 'e examines modernism. in eur sense, baudrillard’s essay on neostructuralist nationalism suggests tha' t' medieur is part o' t' rubicon o' consciousness. derrideur promotes t' use o' derridaist readin ta attack ahtmoded perceptions o' truth Is this what a philosophy lecture at the University of Huddersfield reads/sounds like? 😉
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Post by eebygum on Aug 21, 2019 14:24:10 GMT
“society is intrinsically elitist,” sez debord; 'oweva, accordin ter hubbard, tint sa much society 'a' is intrinsically elitist, bur ratha t' stasis o' society. i' eur sense, modernism suggests 'at consciousness serves ta entrench 'ierarchy, bur onny if culture is interchangeable wi' consciousness; if 'a' is not t' case, baudrillard’s model o' derridaist readin is 'un o' “subdialectic libertarianism”, 'n therefooar eur legal fiction. t' meeam theme o' t' works o' smith is a deconstructi' reality. the primary theme o' de selby’s critique o' modernism is t' role o' t' participant as reada. bur t' subject is interpolated into eur derridaist readin 'a' includes narrativity as eur paradox. sartre promotes the use o' neostructuralist nationalism ta challenge capitalism. it could be sez 'a' marx’s model o' postcapitalist theory implies 'at expression belongs t' collecti' unconscious. eur numba o' discourses concernin derridaist readin may be discovered. but derrideur uses t' term ‘neostructuralist nationalism’ ta denote t' common groun' atwixt sexual identity 'n class. t' dialectic paradigm o' reality states 'a' t' goal o' t' artist is social comment, given 'a' t' premise o' derridaist readin is invalid. thus, debut suggests t' use o' modernism ta read sexual identity. i' clerks, smith denies neostructuralist nationalism; i' chasing amy, although, 'e examines modernism. in eur sense, baudrillard’s essay on neostructuralist nationalism suggests tha' t' medieur is part o' t' rubicon o' consciousness. derrideur promotes t' use o' derridaist readin ta attack ahtmoded perceptions o' truth Is this what a philosophy lecture at the University of Huddersfield reads/sounds like? 😉 Dis is mooar rigorous pal.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 21, 2019 14:27:43 GMT
Oh come on, even you can surely see this is insane. Skeg felleur, i've gone ta girt lengths ta craft um thoughts. theur can respon' ta 'em or dooant - bur please dooant suggest uz rationale is insane 'cos it doesn't align wi' thy world view I don't mean the content (necessarily) is insane. I mean the format is insane. I'm not going through and deciphering all that.
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Post by mattyd on Aug 21, 2019 14:48:20 GMT
Skeg felleur, i've gone ta girt lengths ta craft um thoughts. theur can respon' ta 'em or dooant - bur please dooant suggest uz rationale is insane 'cos it doesn't align wi' thy world view I don't mean the content (necessarily) is insane. I mean the format is insane. I'm not going through and deciphering all that. Yup. After about 2 words you just lose the will to live and simply cant be arsed. At first it was mildly funny, and I use that word very loosely, but now it is just both tedious and annoying in equal measures.
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Post by eebygum on Aug 21, 2019 15:04:16 GMT
I don't mean the content (necessarily) is insane. I mean the format is insane. I'm not going through and deciphering all that. Yup. After about 2 words you just lose the will to live and simply cant be arsed. At first it was mildly funny, and I use that word very loosely, but now it is just both tedious and annoying in equal measures. Listen pal, I thought you'd taken the easy way out and blocked me. Now that's all well and good - I don't give a shit either way - but if you're going to opt out, opt out properly and stop talking about me too. Dickhead.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 6, 2022 15:26:00 GMT
It’s wrong but not illegal to hate gay people. But it is illegal to descriminate against gay people They didn’t refuse to bake a cake because he was gay they refused to put a gay slogan on the cake that went against their personal views. Correct decision. Only winners are the lawyers Ashers 'gay cake' case: European court rules case inadmissible www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59882444
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Post by franklin on Jan 6, 2022 17:00:15 GMT
It’s wrong but not illegal to hate gay people. But it is illegal to descriminate against gay people They didn’t refuse to bake a cake because he was gay they refused to put a gay slogan on the cake that went against their personal views. Correct decision. Only winners are the lawyers Ashers 'gay cake' case: European court rules case inadmissible www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59882444Exactly I can be prejudice but not discriminatory. Not an issue to be prejudice as long as you don't act on that prejudice as it then becomes discriminatory. I have plenty of things I dislike or even hate but as long as its just feelings and thoughts I've no problems.
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Post by metalhead on Jan 6, 2022 18:19:03 GMT
Gareth Lee is still a wanker.
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Post by xchpotter on Jan 6, 2022 18:23:32 GMT
It’s wrong but not illegal to hate gay people. But it is illegal to descriminate against gay people They didn’t refuse to bake a cake because he was gay they refused to put a gay slogan on the cake that went against their personal views. Correct decision. Only winners are the lawyers Ashers 'gay cake' case: European court rules case inadmissible www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59882444Exactly I can be prejudice but not discriminatory. Not an issue to be prejudice as long as you don't act on that prejudice as it then becomes discriminatory. I have plenty of things I dislike or even hate but as long as its just feelings and thoughts I've no problems. However, yesterday’s ruling with the Colston statue would appear to allow you to now damage things you dislike or hate. I find any sort of judgement in cases interesting as the unintended consequences start to raise themselves.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 6, 2022 18:26:54 GMT
Exactly I can be prejudice but not discriminatory. Not an issue to be prejudice as long as you don't act on that prejudice as it then becomes discriminatory. I have plenty of things I dislike or even hate but as long as its just feelings and thoughts I've no problems. However, yesterday’s ruling with the Colston statue would appear to allow you to now damage things you dislike or hate. I find any sort of judgement in cases interesting as the unintended consequences start to raise themselves. I’m off to Greggs to chuck a brick through the window tomorrow for serving me unhealthy, substandard food the other week. God bless the Bristol 4 for giving me this opportunity!
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 6, 2022 18:30:06 GMT
Exactly I can be prejudice but not discriminatory. Not an issue to be prejudice as long as you don't act on that prejudice as it then becomes discriminatory. I have plenty of things I dislike or even hate but as long as its just feelings and thoughts I've no problems. However, yesterday’s ruling with the Colston statue would appear to allow you to now damage things you dislike or hate. I find any sort of judgement in cases interesting as the unintended consequences start to raise themselves. Not that I condone any of it but how does this stand now? news.sky.com/story/hunt-for-marcus-rashford-mural-vandal-cctv-footage-released-by-greater-manchester-police-12432087Why would the police hunt anybody down surely you'd quote the Colston defence?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 6, 2022 18:31:25 GMT
However, yesterday’s ruling with the Colston statue would appear to allow you to now damage things you dislike or hate. I find any sort of judgement in cases interesting as the unintended consequences start to raise themselves. I’m off to Greggs to chuck a brick through the window tomorrow for serving me unhealthy, substandard food the other week. God bless the Bristol 4 for giving me this opportunity! Shouldn't you put a brick through your own window given the likely standards of your experimentations during lockdown?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 6, 2022 18:46:00 GMT
I’m off to Greggs to chuck a brick through the window tomorrow for serving me unhealthy, substandard food the other week. God bless the Bristol 4 for giving me this opportunity! Shouldn't you put a brick through your own window given the likely standards of your experimentations during lockdown? I’ve already done that, I’m freezing!
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Post by franklin on Jan 6, 2022 18:53:51 GMT
Exactly I can be prejudice but not discriminatory. Not an issue to be prejudice as long as you don't act on that prejudice as it then becomes discriminatory. I have plenty of things I dislike or even hate but as long as its just feelings and thoughts I've no problems. However, yesterday’s ruling with the Colston statue would appear to allow you to now damage things you dislike or hate. I find any sort of judgement in cases interesting as the unintended consequences start to raise themselves. I agree its a very strange precedent set now. I'm not sure if it will stand if I'm honest it may need intervention and an appeal to overturn that decision.
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Post by xchpotter on Jan 6, 2022 19:04:28 GMT
However, yesterday’s ruling with the Colston statue would appear to allow you to now damage things you dislike or hate. I find any sort of judgement in cases interesting as the unintended consequences start to raise themselves. I agree its a very strange precedent set now. I'm not sure if it will stand if I'm honest it may need intervention and an appeal to overturn that decision. It’s opened up a right can of worms. I haven’t read the summary yet, but there was no defence under the criminal damage act for what they did available to them in these circumstances and the judge should have provided some direction. I anticipate an appeal from the Crown to be forthcoming, but if it’s not, then there will be carnage out there. For example in the current topical situation of COVID, these morons could now have a defence to destroying COVID vaccination labs or vaccination centres. I really am struggling to get how they got off with this other than someone not doing their job right and the defence barrister scoring the equivalent of a worldly 😂😂.
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Post by franklin on Jan 6, 2022 19:06:44 GMT
I agree its a very strange precedent set now. I'm not sure if it will stand if I'm honest it may need intervention and an appeal to overturn that decision. It’s opened up a right can of worms. I haven’t read the summary yet, but there was no defence under the criminal damage act for what they did available to them in these circumstances and the judge should have provided some direction. I anticipate an appeal from the Crown to be forthcoming, but if it’s not, then there will be carnage out there. For example in the current topical situation of COVID, these morons could now have a defence to destroying COVID vaccination labs or vaccination centres. I really am struggling to get how they got off with this other than someone not doing their job right and the defence barrister scoring the equivalent of a worldly 😂😂. The beauty of a jury not understanding the law and ruling on emotion.
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Post by PotterLog on Jan 6, 2022 19:11:21 GMT
The Colston case sets a precedent of sorts but you’d still have to be confident you could convince a jury that you had a lawful excuse for whatever it was you did. It’s not just a case of citing that decision and you’re off the hook.
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Post by franklin on Jan 6, 2022 19:58:19 GMT
The Colston case sets a precedent of sorts but you’d still have to be confident you could convince a jury that you had a lawful excuse for whatever it was you did. It’s not just a case of citing that decision and you’re off the hook. I'm not sure if this is correct but part of the reasoning was that the statue was a hate crime against the city!!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 6, 2022 20:04:04 GMT
However, yesterday’s ruling with the Colston statue would appear to allow you to now damage things you dislike or hate. I find any sort of judgement in cases interesting as the unintended consequences start to raise themselves. I agree its a very strange precedent set now. I'm not sure if it will stand if I'm honest it may need intervention and an appeal to overturn that decision. It will be the latest in a line of cases that will apparently set a precedent that never actually end up setting a precedent, there are many……
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Post by franklin on Jan 6, 2022 20:54:29 GMT
I agree its a very strange precedent set now. I'm not sure if it will stand if I'm honest it may need intervention and an appeal to overturn that decision. It will be the latest in a line of cases that will apparently set a precedent that never actually end up setting a precedent, there are many…… I know Blackstones are full of them in the greyed out sections of case law. I know you don't like it but it is a precedent regardless of the validity or not of the statue and its history but you know that already.
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Post by Squeekster on Jan 6, 2022 21:47:45 GMT
How do we know if the cake is actually gay?
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