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Post by metalhead on Oct 11, 2018 11:21:22 GMT
'Mr Lee said the case had made him feel like a second-class citizen and that he was now concerned about "the implications for all of the gay community".' Ironically it's campaigners like Lee and their antics who probably make Average Joes lose a little bit of tolerance and 'roll their eyes' towards the LGBT community when previously they couldn't have given the slightest of fucks who they like to swap bodily fluids with. I'm one of them I have to say. What's his next campaign anyway- demand that his nearest Islamic Centre has a stall that sells butt-plugs? pretty much sums it up a couple of my best friends are gay, it makes no odds to me, i go out with them and we have a good time and we are still good friends, i try not to categorise people in terms of gay, straight, black etc etc except vale fans, they are shit I think a lot of gay people are ashamed by this blokes actions tbh. There was a rather aggressive debate on Twitter yesterday that was mentioned on the BBC and the person sticking up for Gareth was straight, and the bloke who thought he was a complete prick was gay. The straight (SJW) after comprehensively losing the argument, accused the GAY MAN of entrenched homophobia. Welcome to modern day debate.
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Post by metalhead on Oct 11, 2018 11:23:27 GMT
I'd rather pay for a "perfect queer family" that is loving, together and provides a child with a solid foundation, than a broken hetero relationship. I don't understand how it can make you so angry. What difference would it have made if one of the golfers was gay for goodness sake, would it make him any less of a golfer, or ruin Europe's fantastic win? Of course not. I think the point was that the BBC, Guardian and others would have us believe that homosexuality and trans, ‘non gender’ existence is much more widespread than it actually is. It might be widespread within the bubbles that these luvvies exist, but to most of us it is a minor, rarely encountered deviance to normality. And, for what it’s worth, bringing children up in an environment of two ‘loving males’ is likely to do them no favours in the long run once they start getting bullied and the piss taken out of them at school.They would, in my opinion, be better bought up by a normal heterosexual couple who may have the odd row or problem between themselves which the sprog will learn from and benefit from as they go through their educational and working lives. That says a lot about society though, doesn't it? Why can't two gay men raise a child?
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Post by metalhead on Oct 11, 2018 11:34:35 GMT
Both the UK and USA have levelled the playing field.... and rightly so. The problem for me, is that some gay people seemingly want more than equality.... they actually want superiority, a bit like certain feminists. If there's someone I utterly despise, it's Milo Yiannopoulos, but he actually nails it here, although I disagree with him on gay marriage. Two very gay blokes talking about exactly what I mention above: That was a great watch. Been saying for years "Why would gay guys want to get married," The bleached Greek obviously wants to £@#& the Yank, the amount of sledging he gives him. I do disagree with his line about gay Torys being discriminated against. I once pulled a Tory, but didn't initially realise she was. When I did, I dumped her. $#@&&ed her 1st, mind! The bleached Greek. Brilliant
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Post by flea79 on Oct 11, 2018 12:07:38 GMT
I think the point was that the BBC, Guardian and others would have us believe that homosexuality and trans, ‘non gender’ existence is much more widespread than it actually is. It might be widespread within the bubbles that these luvvies exist, but to most of us it is a minor, rarely encountered deviance to normality. And, for what it’s worth, bringing children up in an environment of two ‘loving males’ is likely to do them no favours in the long run once they start getting bullied and the piss taken out of them at school.They would, in my opinion, be better bought up by a normal heterosexual couple who may have the odd row or problem between themselves which the sprog will learn from and benefit from as they go through their educational and working lives. That says a lot about society though, doesn't it? Why can't two gay men raise a child? they absolutely can, i am an adopted kid and my friends have spoken to me about issues i have faced as a result of this as it is something they are considering, they would make excellent parents and a damn sight better than the rats that created me
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 11, 2018 12:14:26 GMT
That says a lot about society though, doesn't it? Why can't two gay men raise a child? they absolutely can, i am an adopted kid and my friends have spoken to me about issues i have faced as a result of this as it is something they are considering, they would make excellent parents and a damn sight better than the rats that created me That's the main point all kids need is a parent or parents that give a stuff about them.
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Post by yeokel on Oct 11, 2018 12:19:23 GMT
I think the point was that the BBC, Guardian and others would have us believe that homosexuality and trans, ‘non gender’ existence is much more widespread than it actually is. It might be widespread within the bubbles that these luvvies exist, but to most of us it is a minor, rarely encountered deviance to normality. And, for what it’s worth, bringing children up in an environment of two ‘loving males’ is likely to do them no favours in the long run once they start getting bullied and the piss taken out of them at school.They would, in my opinion, be better bought up by a normal heterosexual couple who may have the odd row or problem between themselves which the sprog will learn from and benefit from as they go through their educational and working lives. That says a lot about society though, doesn't it? Why can't two gay men raise a child? Balance. In my experience, men and women have different emotions, different sympathies, deal with problems, issues and opportunities differently and, generally, are quite different animals from one another. A child brought up by two homosexual males, or two homosexual females for that matter, is not going to benefit from the whole gamut of experiences and feelings that he/she/non-gender specific pronoun would likely be exposed to being brought up by a normal male and female partnership, be they married, living together, foster parents or adoptive parents. I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying that in most circumstances, male/female is better, in my opinion.
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Post by salopstick on Oct 11, 2018 12:35:44 GMT
That says a lot about society though, doesn't it? Why can't two gay men raise a child? Balance. In my experience, men and women have different emotions, different sympathies, deal with problems, issues and opportunities differently and, generally, are quite different animals from one another. A child brought up by two homosexual males, or two homosexual females for that matter, is not going to benefit from the whole gamut of experiences and feelings that he/she/non-gender specific pronoun would likely be exposed to being brought up by a normal male and female partnership, be they married, living together, foster parents or adoptive parents. I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying that in most circumstances, male/female is better, in my opinion. thats the problem with equality. None of us are equal. I don’t believe in discrimination but at the same time I only believe in equality when the terms are equal.
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Post by metalhead on Oct 11, 2018 13:25:48 GMT
That says a lot about society though, doesn't it? Why can't two gay men raise a child? they absolutely can, i am an adopted kid and my friends have spoken to me about issues i have faced as a result of this as it is something they are considering, they would make excellent parents and a damn sight better than the rats that created me Exactly my point. Society believes two gay men couldn't raise a child. I have no reason to believe two gay men couldn't raise a child and what's more, I have no reason to believe that two gay men raising a child would have any impact on that child's sexuality (another myth concocted by the alt right) That says a lot about society though, doesn't it? Why can't two gay men raise a child? Balance. In my experience, men and women have different emotions, different sympathies, deal with problems, issues and opportunities differently and, generally, are quite different animals from one another. A child brought up by two homosexual males, or two homosexual females for that matter, is not going to benefit from the whole gamut of experiences and feelings that he/she/non-gender specific pronoun would likely be exposed to being brought up by a normal male and female partnership, be they married, living together, foster parents or adoptive parents. I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying that in most circumstances, male/female is better, in my opinion.Only because that's the norm. It would be considered aberrant for a child to be raised by two gay men, and therefore it makes people uncomfortable. Had it been possible 200 years ago, you wouldn't give a shit now.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 11, 2018 13:29:38 GMT
That says a lot about society though, doesn't it? Why can't two gay men raise a child? Balance. In my experience, men and women have different emotions, different sympathies, deal with problems, issues and opportunities differently and, generally, are quite different animals from one another. A child brought up by two homosexual males, or two homosexual females for that matter, is not going to benefit from the whole gamut of experiences and feelings that he/she/non-gender specific pronoun would likely be exposed to being brought up by a normal male and female partnership, be they married, living together, foster parents or adoptive parents. I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying that in most circumstances, male/female is better, in my opinion. The evidence suggests that there's no difference in outcome either in mental health, physical health, scores in education and attainment. So whilst you are welcome to your opinion it is purely anecdotal compared to several long term analyses.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Oct 11, 2018 13:31:40 GMT
Balance. In my experience, men and women have different emotions, different sympathies, deal with problems, issues and opportunities differently and, generally, are quite different animals from one another. A child brought up by two homosexual males, or two homosexual females for that matter, is not going to benefit from the whole gamut of experiences and feelings that he/she/non-gender specific pronoun would likely be exposed to being brought up by a normal male and female partnership, be they married, living together, foster parents or adoptive parents. I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying that in most circumstances, male/female is better, in my opinion. thats the problem with equality. None of us are equal. I don’t believe in discrimination but at the same time I only believe in equality when the terms are equal. Equality is against every basic human instinct!
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Post by yeokel on Oct 11, 2018 13:53:55 GMT
Balance. In my experience, men and women have different emotions, different sympathies, deal with problems, issues and opportunities differently and, generally, are quite different animals from one another. A child brought up by two homosexual males, or two homosexual females for that matter, is not going to benefit from the whole gamut of experiences and feelings that he/she/non-gender specific pronoun would likely be exposed to being brought up by a normal male and female partnership, be they married, living together, foster parents or adoptive parents. I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying that in most circumstances, male/female is better, in my opinion. The evidence suggests that there's no difference in outcome either in mental health, physical health, scores in education and attainment. So whilst you are welcome to your opinion it is purely anecdotal compared to several long term analyses. How long are these several "long term analyses" of yours then as I don't think it has even been a possibility until relatively recently. Like any open minded person, I'm willing to amend my viewpoint if you could provide links to these "several long term analyses" - Not all of them of course, but two or three would be useful and shall we say they should cover children brought up by homosexual couples over a period of around ten years?
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Post by flea79 on Oct 11, 2018 14:04:40 GMT
That says a lot about society though, doesn't it? Why can't two gay men raise a child? Balance. In my experience, men and women have different emotions, different sympathies, deal with problems, issues and opportunities differently and, generally, are quite different animals from one another. A child brought up by two homosexual males, or two homosexual females for that matter, is not going to benefit from the whole gamut of experiences and feelings that he/she/non-gender specific pronoun would likely be exposed to being brought up by a normal male and female partnership, be they married, living together, foster parents or adoptive parents. I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying that in most circumstances, male/female is better, in my opinion. sorry Pal disagree in every way what about single parent families, i know mothers and fathers who for various reasons have raised children alone and done an exceptional job and raised great kids with no emotional retardation as long as you can care for the child and love it and always do your best who you share a bed with does not make a blind bit of difference im intrigued how we have gone from a gay cake to this tbh
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 11, 2018 15:08:50 GMT
The evidence suggests that there's no difference in outcome either in mental health, physical health, scores in education and attainment. So whilst you are welcome to your opinion it is purely anecdotal compared to several long term analyses. How long are these several "long term analyses" of yours then as I don't think it has even been a possibility until relatively recently. Like any open minded person, I'm willing to amend my viewpoint if you could provide links to these "several long term analyses" - Not all of them of course, but two or three would be useful and shall we say they should cover children brought up by homosexual couples over a period of around ten years? Ok then, here's 3 to kickoff www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12361102 Meta-analyses covering studies from 1978-2000 based on 23 separate studies from offspring or gay or lesbian parentage from 1.5-44 years of age. No difference in outcome. www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15504280802177615?src=recsys& Analysis of 19 studies of at least 1000 families around half and half same sex-mixed sex parentage in kids with a mean age of 10 up to 24. Covering the whole period. No difference in outcome. onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2009.00678.x?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=userIsAuthenticated%3Dfalse Meta-analysis of 33 studies taken place across at least 5 year period noted no major significant differences in kids brought up by parents of the same gender compared to heterosexual couples socially, physically or economically A meta-analysis I should point out, is a review that compiles evidence from a variety of studies and then measures them for the overall message of what they say. One thing pretty much all these studies point to, is that kids that do not have a solid family unit of any type be it one loving parent or two, suffer more greatly than those who have them. Which is the key thing here, as others have said on this thread. Curiously though, in families with one parent fully removed and attention given purely to the child rather than several partner, the parent and the child often show more flexibility to solving problems, dealing with emotions and decision making.
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sharpy
Academy Starlet
Posts: 104
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Post by sharpy on Oct 11, 2018 16:12:53 GMT
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Post by Mendicant on Oct 11, 2018 18:08:43 GMT
I don't mind gays having cakes, what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms or in the public bogs bumming away ten to the dozen while the "taker" looks for any Stoke City related grafitti on the loo door as it vibrates as though there's an earthquake of gayness off the Richter scale going on up Hanley, is of absolutely no interest to me. But what I will say is my wedding cake cost a fortune, way more than £36, and it only had me and marlady's names on it.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Oct 11, 2018 23:23:43 GMT
I didn't know that cakes could be Gay.
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Post by felonious on Aug 15, 2019 7:36:24 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Aug 15, 2019 10:46:24 GMT
They will lose. The people were not descriminated against. The bakers would make gay people a cake. The law cannot force a baker to make a cake decorated with slogans he does not believe in. The law does say you cannot refuse custom based on sexuality It would be no different to someone wanting a cake decorated with hate or racist slogans. It really is PC gone mad and the cunt taking the cake is only doing it for activism Spurious
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Post by foster on Aug 15, 2019 11:10:51 GMT
They will lose. The people were not descriminated against. The bakers would make gay people a cake. The law cannot force a baker to make a cake decorated with slogans he does not believe in. The law does say you cannot refuse custom based on sexuality It would be no different to someone wanting a cake decorated with hate or racist slogans. It really is PC gone mad and the cunt taking the cake is only doing it for activism Spurious I dunno mate. I think if bakers and such start refusing things based on their own personal beliefs it'll just open a can of worms as everyone can start doing it. At the end of the day it's just a cake and they don't have to eat it. I don't like the slogan but it's not quite as bad as say 'support ISIS' or something extreme. Let's say you have a kid and you name him Adolf (could happen). How would you feel if you wanted to get him a birthday cake and it got refused because the bakers in question didn't like the name based on their beliefs in relation to Nazis. Let's say you go to a bakery run by Mormons and they refuse to make you a cake with a birthday message on it just because they don't believe in celebrating birthdays. Or Chinese bakers who refuse to make a cake for new years because its not aligned with their new year. It would never end. If the bakery in question has a general policy whereby they refuse slogans of any political or potentially devisive nature then fair enough. It's a shitty situation really as I can see points to both sides.
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Post by yeokel on Aug 15, 2019 11:58:39 GMT
They will lose. The people were not descriminated against. The bakers would make gay people a cake. The law cannot force a baker to make a cake decorated with slogans he does not believe in. The law does say you cannot refuse custom based on sexuality It would be no different to someone wanting a cake decorated with hate or racist slogans. It really is PC gone mad and the cunt taking the cake is only doing it for activism Spurious I dunno mate. I think if bakers and such start refusing things based on their own personal beliefs it'll just open a can of worms as everyone can start doing it. At the end of the day it's just a cake and they don't have to eat it. I don't like the slogan but it's not quite as bad as say 'support ISIS' or something extreme. Let's say you have a kid and you name him Adolf (could happen). How would you feel if you wanted to get him a birthday cake and it got refused because the bakers in question didn't like the name based on their beliefs in relation to Nazis. Let's say you go to a bakery run by Mormons and they refuse to make you a cake with a birthday message on it just because they don't believe in celebrating birthdays. Or Chinese bakers who refuse to make a cake for new years because its not aligned with their new year. It would never end. If the bakery in question has a general policy whereby they refuse slogans of any political or potentially devisive nature then fair enough. It's a shitty situation really as I can see points to both sides. If one baker refuses to bake it, don’t you just go down the road to another baker and ask them to do it instead? This legal action must be costing a fortune. I wonder who is footing the bill?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 12:07:43 GMT
They will lose. The people were not descriminated against. The bakers would make gay people a cake. The law cannot force a baker to make a cake decorated with slogans he does not believe in. The law does say you cannot refuse custom based on sexuality It would be no different to someone wanting a cake decorated with hate or racist slogans. It really is PC gone mad and the cunt taking the cake is only doing it for activism Spurious I dunno mate. I think if bakers and such start refusing things based on their own personal beliefs it'll just open a can of worms as everyone can start doing it. At the end of the day it's just a cake and they don't have to eat it. I don't like the slogan but it's not quite as bad as say 'support ISIS' or something extreme. Let's say you have a kid and you name him Adolf (could happen). How would you feel if you wanted to get him a birthday cake and it got refused because the bakers in question didn't like the name based on their beliefs in relation to Nazis. Let's say you go to a bakery run by Mormons and they refuse to make you a cake with a birthday message on it just because they don't believe in celebrating birthdays. Or Chinese bakers who refuse to make a cake for new years because its not aligned with their new year. It would never end. If the bakery in question has a general policy whereby they refuse slogans of any political or potentially devisive nature then fair enough. It's a shitty situation really as I can see points to both sides. Wasn't the slogan 'support gay marriage'? If the bakers are so against something that has no affect on them that they won't even write the words on a cake then sod em. Hope the court gives the customers something.
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Post by eddyclamp on Aug 15, 2019 12:12:38 GMT
Think of the tax payers money could have been saved if Judge Rinder had dealt with it.
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Post by musik on Aug 15, 2019 12:15:36 GMT
Why can't two gay men raise a child? Does it increase the possibility of their child becoming homosexual, do you think?
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Post by yeokel on Aug 15, 2019 12:16:31 GMT
I dunno mate. I think if bakers and such start refusing things based on their own personal beliefs it'll just open a can of worms as everyone can start doing it. At the end of the day it's just a cake and they don't have to eat it. I don't like the slogan but it's not quite as bad as say 'support ISIS' or something extreme. Let's say you have a kid and you name him Adolf (could happen). How would you feel if you wanted to get him a birthday cake and it got refused because the bakers in question didn't like the name based on their beliefs in relation to Nazis. Let's say you go to a bakery run by Mormons and they refuse to make you a cake with a birthday message on it just because they don't believe in celebrating birthdays. Or Chinese bakers who refuse to make a cake for new years because its not aligned with their new year. It would never end. If the bakery in question has a general policy whereby they refuse slogans of any political or potentially devisive nature then fair enough. It's a shitty situation really as I can see points to both sides. Wasn't the slogan 'support gay marriage'? If the bakers are so against something that has no affect on them that they won't even write the words on a cake then sod em. Hope the court gives the customers something.So do I. A bloody good slapping and an instruction to stop wasting court time with this sort of bollocks. As a matter of interest, do you not see the paradox of your position that the customer has every right to ask the baker to do something, but the baker has no right to refuse to do it? That’s a pretty bad world you are advocating.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Aug 15, 2019 12:25:32 GMT
I dunno mate. I think if bakers and such start refusing things based on their own personal beliefs it'll just open a can of worms as everyone can start doing it. At the end of the day it's just a cake and they don't have to eat it. I don't like the slogan but it's not quite as bad as say 'support ISIS' or something extreme. Let's say you have a kid and you name him Adolf (could happen). How would you feel if you wanted to get him a birthday cake and it got refused because the bakers in question didn't like the name based on their beliefs in relation to Nazis. Let's say you go to a bakery run by Mormons and they refuse to make you a cake with a birthday message on it just because they don't believe in celebrating birthdays. Or Chinese bakers who refuse to make a cake for new years because its not aligned with their new year. It would never end. If the bakery in question has a general policy whereby they refuse slogans of any political or potentially devisive nature then fair enough. It's a shitty situation really as I can see points to both sides. Wasn't the slogan 'support gay marriage'? If the bakers are so against something that has no affect on them that they won't even write the words on a cake then sod em. Hope the court gives the customers something. But it does affect the bakers, it affects their chosen beliefs. Rightly or wrongly, they should be allowed to uphold their own beliefs - sod the customer if they want something the business doesn't want to supply. The customer is not always right.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 12:36:52 GMT
Wasn't the slogan 'support gay marriage'? If the bakers are so against something that has no affect on them that they won't even write the words on a cake then sod em. Hope the court gives the customers something. But it does affect the bakers, it affects their chosen beliefs. Rightly or wrongly, they should be allowed to uphold their own beliefs - sod the customer if they want something the business doesn't want to supply. The customer is not always right. Oh I absolutely see that side of it, and I'm mostly just not a fan of the business refusing to make a cake (a cake ffs) because of their bigoted, shitarse 'beliefs'. Not believing in equality of sexuality is the sign of tossers, but yeah, I've no idea legally what will happen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 12:38:41 GMT
Wasn't the slogan 'support gay marriage'? If the bakers are so against something that has no affect on them that they won't even write the words on a cake then sod em. Hope the court gives the customers something.So do I. A bloody good slapping and an instruction to stop wasting court time with this sort of bollocks. As a matter of interest, do you not see the paradox of your position that the customer has every right to ask the baker to do something, but the baker has no right to refuse to do it? That’s a pretty bad world you are advocating. Oh I do absolutely. I'm advocating mostly that the bakers are arseholes, and I'd get a lot of schadenfreude from seeing them get a negative result. I have no idea of the legalities though obviously.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 15, 2019 12:40:15 GMT
Why can't two gay men raise a child? Does it increase the possibility of their child becoming homosexual, do you think? If only there was some way of studying this Guess we’ll just never know
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Post by musik on Aug 15, 2019 14:25:20 GMT
Does it increase the possibility of their child becoming homosexual, do you think? If only there was some way of studying this Guess we’ll just never know It would be the easiest thing in the world to do such a study.
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 15, 2019 14:46:46 GMT
As long as the pig in troughs lawyers get their fill.....that’s the most important thing, regardless of either who was discriminated against or whose religious beliefs are dismissed.
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