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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2018 13:51:35 GMT
It was Hughes' term as well though. There isn't a lot of evidence currently supporting the alternative view either. It depends who you would class as creative, if this whole thing is about Bojan, I wouldn't be plying him either. He didn't trust Vydra in the bigger games at Derby either and he's determined, it seems, to go with this 4-3-3 with three workhorses rather than find a place for a number 10, be it Bojan, Ince, Berahino etc.
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Post by henry on Sept 26, 2018 15:32:57 GMT
It would appear he doesn’t want to coach and develop the young players already at the club. Would it? Didn't give Edwards a decent run of games did he ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:00:58 GMT
And as Flaps says, his point about managers having difference of opinion on players is also just as relevant. As you always say yourself.... "You can't have it both ways." I'm not sure what your point is sorry? My point is pretty simple really. That Flaps' first post was just as relevant as the post from the onlooker.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:17:25 GMT
I'm not sure what your point is sorry? My point is pretty simple really. That Flaps' first post was just as relevant as the post from the onlooker. You think a manager bombing out one of the best midfielders in the Championship in the blink of an eye is comparable to a manager who is known to not trust footballers and Liverpool letting Rooney go, when the first team manager there will have little influence in the youth setup? I'm liking this defence of Rowett. I just wish it was a bit more robust than what we are seeing. Defending for the sake of it is not a very strong starting point.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2018 16:17:57 GMT
I'm not sure what your point is sorry? My point is pretty simple really. That Flaps' first post was just as relevant as the post from the onlooker. I don't see where not having it both ways comes into that though? I think the Will Hughes thing is relevant, as it suggests an aversion to creative types that tallies with a fair bot of what we've seen from him here and elsewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:25:34 GMT
My point is pretty simple really. That Flaps' first post was just as relevant as the post from the onlooker. I don't see where not having it both ways comes into that though? I think the Will Hughes thing is relevant, as it suggests an aversion to creative types that tallies with a fair bot of what we've seen from him here and elsewhere. Will Hughes is a central midfielder isn't he? Who likes to put his foot in and can play a bit. He likes to keep the ball moving quickly and can pick a pass, a bit of an all action type really. Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Rowett just signed a midfielder in that mould for us?
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Post by lordb on Sept 26, 2018 16:30:35 GMT
Didn't give Edwards a decent run of games did he ? He's played It's September Way to early to call on this one.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2018 16:30:51 GMT
I don't see where not having it both ways comes into that though? I think the Will Hughes thing is relevant, as it suggests an aversion to creative types that tallies with a fair bot of what we've seen from him here and elsewhere. Will Hughes is a central midfielder isn't he? Who likes to put his foot in and can play a bit. He likes to keep the ball moving quickly and can pick a pass, a bit of an all action type really. Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Rowett just signed a midfielder in that mould for us? No. Ryan Woods is a defensive midfielder. Will Hughes is a creative, attacking midfielder.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:35:09 GMT
Will Hughes is a central midfielder isn't he? Who likes to put his foot in and can play a bit. He likes to keep the ball moving quickly and can pick a pass, a bit of an all action type really. Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Rowett just signed a midfielder in that mould for us? No. Ryan Woods is a defensive midfielder. Will Hughes is a creative, attacking midfielder. 9 goals for Derby in 165 appearances. Yeah dead attacking.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:42:05 GMT
My point is pretty simple really. That Flaps' first post was just as relevant as the post from the onlooker. You think a manager bombing out one of the best midfielders in the Championship in the blink of an eye is comparable to a manager who is known to not trust footballers and Liverpool letting Rooney go, when the first team manager there will have little influence in the youth setup? I'm liking this defence of Rowett. I just wish it was a bit more robust than what we are seeing. Defending for the sake of it is not a very strong starting point. The point of Flaps' that i was agreeing with is that just because Rowett didn't fancy Will Hughes it doesnt mean he's a bad manager which is what you were alluding to with your comment... "How can any manager not want Hughes" or words to that effect. And Flaps was saying that plenty of managers have bombed good players out of their clubs in the past and just because Rowett didn't want Hughes in his team (for whatever reason) it shouldn't be used as a stick to beat him with. His point was as equally relevant as yours but for some strange reason it was completely shot down as nonsense.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2018 16:46:29 GMT
No. Ryan Woods is a defensive midfielder. Will Hughes is a creative, attacking midfielder. 9 goals for Derby in 165 appearances. Yeah dead attacking. Will Hughes isn't a holding midfielder. Jesus Christ this is hard work.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:51:31 GMT
9 goals for Derby in 165 appearances. Yeah dead attacking. Will Hughes isn't a holding midfielder. Jesus Christ this is hard work. Don't blaspheme. Ok fair enough but see my reply to Onlooker for my original point. When all is said and done, it is my opinion that Rowett hasn't had anywhere near enough time yet and he still has time to get things right and he needs that time as well because our squad was an even bigger mess than a lot of us ever thought by the looks of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:52:36 GMT
You think a manager bombing out one of the best midfielders in the Championship in the blink of an eye is comparable to a manager who is known to not trust footballers and Liverpool letting Rooney go, when the first team manager there will have little influence in the youth setup? I'm liking this defence of Rowett. I just wish it was a bit more robust than what we are seeing. Defending for the sake of it is not a very strong starting point. The point of Flaps' that i was agreeing with is that just because Rowett didn't fancy Will Hughes it doesnt mean he's a bad manager which is what you were alluding to with your comment... "How can any manager not want Hughes" or words to that effect. And Flaps was saying that plenty of managers have bombed good players out of their clubs in the past and just because Rowett didn't want Hughes in his team (for whatever reason) it shouldn't be used as a stick to beat him with. His point was as equally relevant as yours but for some strange reason it was completely shot down as nonsense. Comparing it to Pulis and Liverpool letting a youth player go is nonsense which deserved to be shot down. My main point is why are our owners appointing managers (Hughes aside) with a track record of mistrusting footballers, in favour of aggressive, pacey grafters when for as long as I can remember our squad has contained anything but? Even Hughes resorted to hoofball in the last knockings with players not able to play that way. That should have formed a basis for the research into his replacement and so on. Rowett ditching Will Hughes just proves what his default position is. This really isn't hard to fathom out.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2018 16:53:47 GMT
Will Hughes isn't a holding midfielder. Jesus Christ this is hard work. Don't blaspheme. Ok fair enough but see my reply to Onlooker for my original point. When all is said and done, it is my opinion that Rowett hasn't had anywhere near enough time yet and he still has time to get things right and he needs that time as well because our squad was an even bigger mess than a lot of us ever thought by the looks of it. He needs to start showing at least something pretty soon though, some sort of sign of encouragement beyond a decent performance marred by pissing away a two goal lead and a slightly fortuitous victory over Swansea's reserves.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:57:22 GMT
The point of Flaps' that i was agreeing with is that just because Rowett didn't fancy Will Hughes it doesnt mean he's a bad manager which is what you were alluding to with your comment... "How can any manager not want Hughes" or words to that effect. And Flaps was saying that plenty of managers have bombed good players out of their clubs in the past and just because Rowett didn't want Hughes in his team (for whatever reason) it shouldn't be used as a stick to beat him with. His point was as equally relevant as yours but for some strange reason it was completely shot down as nonsense. Comparing it to Pulis and Liverpool letting a youth player go is nonsense which deserved to be shot down. My main point is why are our owners appointing managers (Hughes aside) with a track record of mistrusting footballers, in favour of aggressive, pacey grafters when for as long as I can remember our squad has contained anything but? Even Hughes resorted to hoofball in the last knockings with players not able to play that way. That should have formed a basis for the research into his replacement and so on. Rowett ditching Will Hughes just proves what his default position is. This really isn't hard to fathom out. And if he's given the time he needs and it brings us success I couldn't give a flying frig whether he fancies Will Hughes, Nerys Hughes or Merv Hughes. Rowett wouldn't have signed Woods if he was intending on bypassing the midfield.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 17:00:52 GMT
Don't blaspheme. Ok fair enough but see my reply to Onlooker for my original point. When all is said and done, it is my opinion that Rowett hasn't had anywhere near enough time yet and he still has time to get things right and he needs that time as well because our squad was an even bigger mess than a lot of us ever thought by the looks of it. He needs to start showing at least something pretty soon though, some sort of sign of encouragement beyond a decent performance marred by pissing away a two goal lead and a slightly fortuitous victory over Swansea's reserves. I agree. I've seen signs in games that when we are on it we are looking plenty good enough to create good scoring opportunities and scoring goals isn't the massive problem that it's been for such a long time. And he's signed some creative players in Ince and Woods so far. Our defence needs major surgery though and it's going to take some serious work on the training ground so that he can get us through to January still in a decent position until he can make the changes required.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2018 17:05:34 GMT
He needs to start showing at least something pretty soon though, some sort of sign of encouragement beyond a decent performance marred by pissing away a two goal lead and a slightly fortuitous victory over Swansea's reserves. I agree. I've seen signs in games that when we are on it we are looking plenty good enough to create good scoring opportunities and scoring goals isn't the massive problem that it's been for such a long time. And he's signed some creative players in Ince and Woods so far. Our defence needs major surgery though and it's going to take some serious work on the training ground so that he can get us through to January still in a decent position until he can make the changes required. I don't agree that Woods is creative. He's technically good and can pick a pass, which is great, and he's exactly the kind of player we've needed for years, but he's still, nevertheless, a defensive midfielder. His full backs aren't especially attacking, our striker still looks isolated, and we don't have much invention in the middle, which means everything is concentrated out wide and is pretty predictable. Most of the goals we've scored have come when moving away from the 433 the manager favours.
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Post by pavel on Sept 26, 2018 17:07:02 GMT
Derby will be very thankful John Coates had a thing for Rowett- but disappointed it didn't materialise before he'd told Will Hughes he "wasn't his type of player" What research are our owners doing and if they are doing full research, then what exactly is their philosophy and vision for our club? Why wouldn't any manager want Will Hughes in his side? That’s the problem, the owners have never had a clear long term vision for the club or an ethos (again clear) of how they want this team to play. It’s alright talking about gradual progression if you actually do it and stick to it, but we just stumble along in the dark, chopping and changing without any thought of the consequences. A bit like our current manager. Their (sic) vision seems to be short term, make do and mend without imposing any overarching philosophy, style or roadmap and the consequences are eminently visible currently. Yes who wouldn’t want Will Hughes in their team, frightening isn’t it. Goodbye Bojan.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 17:19:25 GMT
Comparing it to Pulis and Liverpool letting a youth player go is nonsense which deserved to be shot down. My main point is why are our owners appointing managers (Hughes aside) with a track record of mistrusting footballers, in favour of aggressive, pacey grafters when for as long as I can remember our squad has contained anything but? Even Hughes resorted to hoofball in the last knockings with players not able to play that way. That should have formed a basis for the research into his replacement and so on. Rowett ditching Will Hughes just proves what his default position is. This really isn't hard to fathom out. And if he's given the time he needs and it brings us success I couldn't give a flying frig whether he fancies Will Hughes, Nerys Hughes or Merv Hughes. Rowett wouldn't have signed Woods if he was intending on bypassing the midfield. That's the point which you and a few others are missing. We don't and didn't have time and have even less time now we're whacking 40M down on players to suit the new man's system. We need instant results else we are knackered. 40M spent and a whole load more to go to get the squad anywhere near what the manager wants and can use. We have no backup wingers, no real backup strikers and now seemingly a back four which is no use nor ornament. It isn't that Rowett is a BAD manager. He doesn't play my style of football but thats a personal thing. Neither did Pulis but he was successful. The problem is there are professional football people paid millions by the club to make professional decisions that make a positive impact on the club. They are the people who appointed a Technical Director who has access to computer software, a barge load of scouts and one of the biggest budgets in the league so why couldn't they spot the obvious after seeing how Hughes regressed and how Lambert didn't fare well as his replacement, playing a certain style of football? Did they expect a man who bases his game on power and pace to come in and hit the ground running with a squad containing Fletcher, Allen, Adam, a broken Shawcross, an ailing Pieters, Bojan, an ageing Crouch, Moting et al? Complete fools if they did.
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