|
Post by santy on May 27, 2018 22:34:09 GMT
The situation around Wimmer is toxic. In some ways, irrespective of what happens him not being an element at all as we go into the season means even if we're down a good player we've got a minefield out of the way.
The fans are less likely to take anything less than perfection, at least those who are vocal, and after all that has been said a year to forget about Wimmer and maybe him coming back after a good season or even being sold on just makes it better for everyone.
There's a tremendous powderkeg that could ignite among fans at any time really with Berahino, Imbula & Wimmer. It just can't be guaranteed in life that they'll perform well, so if there's any mildly positive, or at least fan-sating PR to be gained it makes sense to pursue.
If Rowett had a major hard-on for Wimmer and thought he was the best defender in the world and the club couldn't cope without him it almost certainly wouldn't have gone ahead. Instead it's going to have been more along the lines of "We've already got a deal for Wimmer leaving the pipelines, do you object?"
It's going to be an issue going into the season still even with Imbula and Berahino. It would almost be silly to ignore them and ostracise them from the off, maybe Rowett could be the one to get them performing. Yet at the same time, its very unlikely that's the case, but they're eating up a huge wedge of cash so if no one wants them then its sensible to try and make it work somehow.
It's very unlikely anything will come that offers us such an easy get-out with Berahino, with Imbula maybe we'll get another chance of a club picking his wages up on a loan - but even that's slim pickings as he's been out on loan at Toulouse and hasn't, from how it sounds, been anything more than functional.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 22:37:32 GMT
As long as they are paying a decent portion of his wages and have an option to buy for a few million it's see you later alligator, don't forget your refrigerator (full of pies)....
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2018 22:39:54 GMT
As long as they are paying a decent portion of his wages and have an option to buy for a few million it's see you later alligator, don't forget your refrigerator (full of pies).... Tbf to him it looks like he's lost a load of weight; Funny how we've missed all of that.....
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 22:43:13 GMT
He was the second option after Harry McGuire opted for Leicester instead We didn't need him either though. You’re joking aren’t you? Maguire would have been a fantastic signing
|
|
|
Post by terryconroysmagic on May 27, 2018 22:43:13 GMT
As long as they are paying a decent portion of his wages and have an option to buy for a few million it's see you later alligator, don't forget your refrigerator (full of pies).... Tbf to him it looks like he's lost a load of weight; Funny how we've missed all of that..... Which ones Wimmer? 😂
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2018 22:47:38 GMT
We didn't need him either though. You’re joking aren’t you? Maguire would have been a fantastic signing We didn't need him though did we? Like we didn't need Wimmer or any other CB.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 22:49:13 GMT
You’re joking aren’t you? Maguire would have been a fantastic signing We didn't need him though did we? Like we didn't need Wimmer. Yes we did. Shawcross is/was chronically injury prone and BMI was missing for large chunks aswell
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2018 22:51:43 GMT
We didn't need him though did we? Like we didn't need Wimmer. Yes we did. Shawcross is/was chronically injury prone and BMI was missing for large chunks aswell No we didn't. We didn't need another CB with what we had at that time. Shawcross Indi Zouma Muniesa Cameron Pieters was more than enough. Full backs were the order of the day. Or should have been.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on May 27, 2018 22:54:00 GMT
Well done Stoke the third good move since the season ended. (The first was removing Lambert, and the second hiring Rowett.)
Please keep it up there is a long way to go before we are ready for next season to start.
As for Wimmer, I'm glad to see him gone. Someone made a huge mistake signing him. Maybe he can find the form that caused Spurs to sign him, but somehow I think he is worse than Wollschied and where is he now?
Thinking of Wollschied's disappearance has me wondering about Palacios, Shea, and Teixeira, boy we have wasted some money!
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 23:00:25 GMT
Yes we did. Shawcross is/was chronically injury prone and BMI was missing for large chunks aswell No we didn't. We didn't need another CB with what we had at that time. Shawcross Indi Zouma Muniesa Cameron Pieters was more than enough. Full backs were the order of the day. Or should have been. We absolutely needed full backs, but the manager at the time wanted to play with three centre backs. With the very questionable fitness record of two of those you have mentioned I’d say a good CB was required
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2018 23:03:11 GMT
No we didn't. We didn't need another CB with what we had at that time. Shawcross Indi Zouma Muniesa Cameron Pieters was more than enough. Full backs were the order of the day. Or should have been. We absolutely needed full backs, but the manager at the time wanted three centre backs. With the very questionable fitness record of two of those you have mentioned I’d say a good CB was required It never was though as it proved. Getting full backs allows Cameron and Pieters to be cover. Muni is the best CB we have for a back 3 and he got rid of him. It was daft. Maguire for Zouma would have been nice though.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 23:05:53 GMT
We absolutely needed full backs, but the manager at the time wanted three centre backs. With the very questionable fitness record of two of those you have mentioned I’d say a good CB was required It never was though as it proved. Getting full backs allows Cameron and Pieters to be cover. Muni is the best CB we have for a back 3 and he got rid of him. It was daft. Maguire for Zouma would have been nice though. Maguire would have been the best CB at the club. I’m not sure why you’re including Erik or Geoffrey as central defenders though?? Erik has never played as a centre defender as far as I’m aware. Cameron very rarely. Do you not remember the Chelsea home game? The one where Fletcher finished up as our only central defender...?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2018 23:09:58 GMT
It never was though as it proved. Getting full backs allows Cameron and Pieters to be cover. Muni is the best CB we have for a back 3 and he got rid of him. It was daft. Maguire for Zouma would have been nice though. Maguire would have been the best CB at the club. I’m not sure why you’re including Erik or Geoffrey as central defenders though?? Do you not remember the Chelsea home game? Cameron is an international centre half and more than good enough to be 5th choice! Pieters can play there as as a last resort as the 6th choice tag shows. We had 5 internationals, 4 who are regular CBs and a sixth CB who was the most suited to the 3 at the back. Another CB wasn't needed.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 23:13:24 GMT
Maguire would have been the best CB at the club. I’m not sure why you’re including Erik or Geoffrey as central defenders though?? Do you not remember the Chelsea home game? Cameron is an international centre half and more than good enough to be 5th choice! Pieters can play there as as a last resort as the 6th choice tag shows. We had 5 internationals, 4 who are regular CBs and a sixth CB who was the most suited to the 3 at the back. Another CB wasn't needed. So how did we get to a shambolic stage whereby in a home league game against the reigning Premier League champions we had Darren Fletcher as our Centre Half?
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 23:19:26 GMT
Hughes, old Carto has distanced himself from the deal!! Sorry, I meant if Rowett had agreed to sell him. Oh I see. Yes, it would appear that GR has made a very quick decision on Wimmer, or perhaps the decision has been made for him. Intriguing.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2018 23:28:17 GMT
Cameron is an international centre half and more than good enough to be 5th choice! Pieters can play there as as a last resort as the 6th choice tag shows. We had 5 internationals, 4 who are regular CBs and a sixth CB who was the most suited to the 3 at the back. Another CB wasn't needed. So how did we get to a shambolic stage whereby in a home league game against the reigning Premier League champions we had Darren Fletcher as our Centre Half? A manager that had lost the plot? Maguire for Zouma makes sense but once we had 3 CBs who would be expecting to start we didn't need a fourth.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 23:33:28 GMT
So how did we get to a shambolic stage whereby in a home league game against the reigning Premier League champions we had Darren Fletcher as our Centre Half? A manager that had lost the plot? Maguire for Zouma makes sense but once we had 3 CBs who would be expecting to start we didn't need a fourth. Hughes wanted to play 3-5-2 There is no way he could have done that with just Zouma Shawcross and Bruno. Muni had already gone and was injury prone anyway. Over the course of a full season, and with players who have a dubious fitness record, we definitely needed cover.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2018 23:37:00 GMT
A manager that had lost the plot? Maguire for Zouma makes sense but once we had 3 CBs who would be expecting to start we didn't need a fourth. Hughes wanted to play 3-5-2 There is no way he could have done that with just Zouma Shawcross and Bruno. Muni had already gone and was injury prone anyway. Over the course of a full season, and with players who have a dubious fitness record, we definitely needed cover. Mini was still here by the time Maguire had moved to Leicester wasn't he? And irrespective of that, letting him go was just daft. And we didn't. We had good cover in Wimmer. It wasn't needed.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 23:39:38 GMT
Hughes wanted to play 3-5-2 There is no way he could have done that with just Zouma Shawcross and Bruno. Muni had already gone and was injury prone anyway. Over the course of a full season, and with players who have a dubious fitness record, we definitely needed cover. Mini was still here by the time Maguire had moved to Leicester wasn't he? And irrespective of that, letting him go was just daft. And we didn't. We had good cover in Wimmer. It wasn't needed. 😂😂😂😂 Maguire would have been Wimmer!! That was my original point. We went in for Wimmer after our original target, Maguire, went to Leicester. And yes, we should have kept Muniesa aswell.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2018 23:40:21 GMT
Mini was still here by the time Maguire had moved to Leicester wasn't he? And irrespective of that, letting him go was just daft. And we didn't. We had good cover in Wimmer. It wasn't needed. 😂😂😂😂 Maguire would have been Wimmer!! That was my original point. We went in for Wimmer after our original target, Maguire, went to Leicester l. Yes and we didn't need him!! That's my point.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 23:43:44 GMT
😂😂😂😂 Maguire would have been Wimmer!! That was my original point. We went in for Wimmer after our original target, Maguire, went to Leicester l. Yes and we didn't need him!! That's my point. Sorry but there is no way you can convince me that Harry Maguire would not have been anything but an excellent signing for Stoke City. The alternative squad options at the time were, and still are, far too injury prone.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2018 23:50:07 GMT
Yes and we didn't need him!! That's my point. Sorry but there is no way you can convince me that Harry Maguire would not have been anything but an excellent signing for Stoke City. The alternative squad options at the time were, and still are, far too injury prone. Instead of Zouma, yes. As well as Zouma, no. We didn't need another CB whoever that was once Zouma signed.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 27, 2018 23:53:35 GMT
Sorry but there is no way you can convince me that Harry Maguire would not have been anything but an excellent signing for Stoke City. The alternative squad options at the time were, and still are, far too injury prone. Instead of Zouma, yes. As well as Zouma, no. We didn't need another CB whoever that was once Zouma signed. If we were intending to play with three at the back, and with injury prone defenders like Ryan and Muniesa on the books we absolutely did.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2018 0:00:44 GMT
Instead of Zouma, yes. As well as Zouma, no. We didn't need another CB whoever that was once Zouma signed. If we were intending to play with three at the back, and with injury prone defenders like Ryan and Muniesa on the books we absolutely did. If that was true Wimmer would have been used more and not at left back like he was. We needed full backs. We had 6 players that can all play CB, 4 who have played CB at international level, 1 who is an international full back. It just wasn't needed. It was always a daft pursuit.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 28, 2018 0:12:29 GMT
If we were intending to play with three at the back, and with injury prone defenders like Ryan and Muniesa on the books we absolutely did. If that was true Wimmer would have been used more and not at left back like he was. We needed full backs. We had 6 players that can all play CB, 4 who have played CB at international level, 1 who is an international full back. It just wasn't needed. It was always a daft pursuit. He started 19 matches for us last season. Considering he joined in September and didn’t get a look in once under Lambert he was virtually ever present from when he signed up to January. He was utilised as a left sided centre back and the players you keep mentioning had either left the club by that stage, were not considered to play in those positions, or were injured.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2018 0:19:59 GMT
If that was true Wimmer would have been used more and not at left back like he was. We needed full backs. We had 6 players that can all play CB, 4 who have played CB at international level, 1 who is an international full back. It just wasn't needed. It was always a daft pursuit. He started 19 matches for us last season. Considering he joined in September and didn’t get a look in once under Lambert he was virtually ever present from when he signed up to January. He was utilised as a left sided centre back and the players you keep mentioning had either left the club by that stage, were not considered to play in those positions, or were injured. Yes and that was all part of the fuck up. Zouma Indi Muni Cameron Shawcross Pieters New right back Bardsley Edwards New left back Pieters Muni Tymon Is what should have happened or Maguire for Zouma. But we shouldn't have gone for that God forsaken formation anyway. Signing another CB and not full backs was a massive fuck up. Signing a CB for 18m wasting the money you got for your attack was a massive fuck up. Letting your best suited CB to the formation you want to play go out on loan was a massive fuck up. It was all so unnecessary with what we had.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 28, 2018 0:29:19 GMT
He started 19 matches for us last season. Considering he joined in September and didn’t get a look in once under Lambert he was virtually ever present from when he signed up to January. He was utilised as a left sided centre back and the players you keep mentioning had either left the club by that stage, were not considered to play in those positions, or were injured. Yes and that was all part of the fuck up. Zouma Indi Muni Cameron Shawcross Pieters New right back Bardsley Edwards New left back Pieters Muni Tymon Is what should have happened or Maguire for Zouma. But we shouldn't have gone for that God forsaken formation anyway. Signing another CB and not full backs was a massive fuck up. Signing a CB for 18m wasting the money you got for your attack was a massive fuck up. Letting your best suited CB to the formation you want to play go out on loan was a massive fuck up. It was all so unnecessary with what we had. I agree with all of that, but it’s not really what we are debating is it? Personal thoughts aside, the manager wanted to play 3-5-2 and that was that, regardless of how daft it was and how unsuitable it was to you, me and most other supporters. So, with the managers preference in mind, and the undisputed fact that we had defenders on the books that were, and still are, injury prone, I think he was right to go for another left sided central defender. It’s his choice of defender that’s the issue really (although I have stated in another thread that Wimmer is better than most give him credit for).
|
|
|
Post by onionman on May 28, 2018 0:32:26 GMT
Wimmer Wimmer chicken dinner
|
|
|
Post by staffordstokiemad on May 28, 2018 1:54:40 GMT
I don't think there will be much danger of us spending £18m anytime soon General! Unless Tony has been dropping you a,few hints that you might want to share like .... There will be about 10-13 incomings this summer and although the calibre of player on the list drawn up is talented, I doubt it'll even get close to £18m. Our frontline will be dynamic and full of goals though, Darren Bent and a return for Cameron Jerome to lead the line with big Victor Anichebe ready on the bench to impact the game at anytime. I for one, am very excited about the summer window. I've heard Shola Ameobi is a free agent this summer.
|
|
|
Post by GeneralFaye on May 28, 2018 4:58:17 GMT
There will be about 10-13 incomings this summer and although the calibre of player on the list drawn up is talented, I doubt it'll even get close to £18m. Our frontline will be dynamic and full of goals though, Darren Bent and a return for Cameron Jerome to lead the line with big Victor Anichebe ready on the bench to impact the game at anytime. I for one, am very excited about the summer window. I've heard Shola Ameobi is a free agent this summer. A 2nd spell in the red and white? I wouldn't rule it out.
|
|