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Post by followyoudown on Apr 6, 2018 7:28:25 GMT
Nail and head and right on queue Essex is above
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Post by bathstoke on Apr 6, 2018 7:58:11 GMT
Been some disturbing reports on the responsibilities of the casual cocaine user, including the dinner party classes. Drugs fuelling crime. In one case a 12yr old kid was muling coke from London to Aberdeen. Lots of beak in Stoke & has been for decades...
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 6, 2018 9:50:02 GMT
The main problem is that knives are quite easy to get hold of just go to the kitchen draw and you have your weapon of death. That's another excuse. The weapon used to commit the crime is not the problem, same as guns are not the problem, sticks are not the problem, cars or rocks or hammers are not the problem. If that were true then everyone would have stabbed someone at some point as nobody goes a single day without encountering a bladed article. It's a people issue, not an inanimate object issue.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 6, 2018 12:07:23 GMT
The main problem is that knives are quite easy to get hold of just go to the kitchen draw and you have your weapon of death. That's another excuse. The weapon used to commit the crime is not the problem, same as guns are not the problem, sticks are not the problem, cars or rocks or hammers are not the problem. If that were true then everyone would have stabbed someone at some point as nobody goes a single day without encountering a bladed article. It's a people issue, not an inanimate object issue. Piss poor excuse for these violent out of control criminals but what do you expect from the left wing apologists brigade, the truth hurts so they have to try to spin it or deflect from the real root cause it is the snowflake way.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 6, 2018 12:10:38 GMT
That's another excuse. The weapon used to commit the crime is not the problem, same as guns are not the problem, sticks are not the problem, cars or rocks or hammers are not the problem. If that were true then everyone would have stabbed someone at some point as nobody goes a single day without encountering a bladed article. It's a people issue, not an inanimate object issue. Piss poor excuse for these violent out of control criminals but what do you expect from the left wing apologists brigade, the truth hurts so they have to try to spin it or deflect from the real root cause it is the snowflake way. Guns don't kill people, rappers do!
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 6, 2018 12:11:45 GMT
knife crime? I thought the latest figures referred to gun crime? imo that is even more worrying. Guns, knives 30% rise in sex offences against minors in London our Capital City all extremely worrying what do you put these increases down to ? Obviously Brexit!
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 6, 2018 12:13:16 GMT
Thr demographics of London and who they voted as mayor say's it all You shoehorn in a way to blame Muslims for anything and everything!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 6, 2018 12:16:15 GMT
This does seem a bit stupid+ if true):
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 6, 2018 12:17:10 GMT
For 2016/2017 London only had the 9th highest homocide rate of major UK cities per population.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 6, 2018 12:18:40 GMT
This does seem a bit stupid: I would have thought there is a lot of overlap between hate crime and violent crime. We need an increase in police funding and numbers. This government (and the former Home Secretary) clearly does not see it as a priority
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 6, 2018 12:22:31 GMT
This does seem a bit stupid: I would have thought there is a lot of overlap between hate crime and violent crime. We need an increase in police funding and numbers. This government (and the former Home Secretary) clearly does not see it as a priority Not sure about direct correlation. May be some. But at this point in time I would prefer resources to be put directly into trying to stop innocent people being killed. The policing of the internet needs a different approach that should not involve 900 ( if true) Met Police officers
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Apr 6, 2018 12:36:15 GMT
I've made numerous posts about the gang/knife/gun problem in London for years on here, it's another one of those 'uncomfortable truths' though, so people prefered to ignore it & pretend it wasn't happening. It'll get even worse now the MSM are reporting on it, these people will see it as a badge of honour to have their crimes plastered all over the news, they'll be trying to 'one-up' eachother in the coming months to show that their 'hood' is the roughest & their 'gang' is the most notorious.
Still, don't worry, Mr Khan is on the case. I've heard he is increasing the 'mean Tweets' budget & building more gender neutral toilets as we speak, so the problem will be solved before you know it.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 6, 2018 12:48:14 GMT
If you were ' in charge's of London and had the task / opportunity to do something about the apparent escalating situation of " crime" , and could take ANY realistic , affordable measures/ policies... What would you do?
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 6, 2018 13:09:59 GMT
If you were ' in charge's of London and had the task / opportunity to do something about the apparent escalating situation of " crime" , and could take ANY realistic , affordable measures/ policies... What would you do? Unfortunately there isn't really anything you can do. Forceful preventative measures (ie stop and search) are highly immoral and are examples of horrific government overreach. More police aren't going to do a damned thing about it unless you have them on every corner with everyone under constant surveillance, which is like some sort of hellish dystopia. There is no workable short-term fix to this. Just like the silly anti-terror tactics we see (the pointless searching upon entry to the stadium, for example). These are all just feel-good, sticking plaster "solutions" that cannot possibly prevent a person intent upon causing harm from causing harm. The situations will only change with long-term, voluntary cultural changes. Social engineering is a dangerous route to follow, but setting positive examples of why people should live their lives according to a policy of non-aggression will be the only meaningful way. A good start would be for a massive mockery of gangsta culture to take place. Turn it from something edgy and dangerous into something camp and cringe, people should see baggy trousers and hear that stupid fucking accent and piss themselves laughing. Make the kids want to distance themselves from it.
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Post by wagsastokie on Apr 6, 2018 14:24:52 GMT
How to solve it stick the army on the streets and anyone who doesn’t seem to be disposed to empty there pockets when requested Shoot the fucker
Shouldn’t take to long before the habit of carrying knives is a thing of the past
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 6, 2018 14:29:29 GMT
How to solve it stick the army on the streets and anyone who doesn’t seem to be disposed to empty there pockets when requested Shoot the fucker Shouldn’t take to long before the habit of carrying knives is a thing of the past "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security". I'd rather get stabbed by a crackhead than live in this nightmarish dystopia!
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Post by wagsastokie on Apr 6, 2018 14:38:46 GMT
How to solve it stick the army on the streets and anyone who doesn’t seem to be disposed to empty there pockets when requested Shoot the fucker Shouldn’t take to long before the habit of carrying knives is a thing of the past "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security". I'd rather get stabbed by a crackhead than live in this nightmarish dystopia! That is a perfectly reasonable response and is up to a point correct My post was in reply to a earlier post how do you stop it Opening a few youth clubs more social workers ect will achieve sod all in the near future There has to be more of a security presence on the streets if that is not acceptable to the little darlings best they get on and keep stabbing each other and stop the bleating
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 6, 2018 14:54:28 GMT
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security". I'd rather get stabbed by a crackhead than live in this nightmarish dystopia! That is a perfectly reasonable response and is up to a point correct My post was in reply to a earlier post how do you stop it Opening a few youth clubs more social workers ect will achieve sod all in the near future There has to be more of a security presence on the streets if that is not acceptable to the little darlings best they get on and keep stabbing each other and stop the bleating "Let the little darlings keep on stabbing each other"? We're talking about kids here, man. Like 13 year olds... It's a societal problem, I don't really know what the solution is but as well as firmness it's going to require a bit of compassion.
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Post by cooper67 on Apr 6, 2018 15:04:45 GMT
How to solve it stick the army on the streets and anyone who doesn’t seem to be disposed to empty there pockets when requested Shoot the fucker Shouldn’t take to long before the habit of carrying knives is a thing of the past "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security". I'd rather get stabbed by a crackhead than live in this nightmarish dystopia! I think he has been reading 'V for Vendetta' Boother.
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Post by wagsastokie on Apr 6, 2018 15:05:00 GMT
That is a perfectly reasonable response and is up to a point correct My post was in reply to a earlier post how do you stop it Opening a few youth clubs more social workers ect will achieve sod all in the near future There has to be more of a security presence on the streets if that is not acceptable to the little darlings best they get on and keep stabbing each other and stop the bleating "Let the little darlings keep on stabbing each other"? We're talking about kids here, man. Like 13 year olds... It's a societal problem, I don't really know what the solution is but as well as firmness it's going to require a bit of compassion. There is also a large amount of 18 -23 years old well old enough to know a lot better They have been trying the compassion bit for years the softly softly approach If they want to stop the killing and maiming they have to acept the tough approach
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 6, 2018 15:42:06 GMT
I would have thought there is a lot of overlap between hate crime and violent crime. We need an increase in police funding and numbers. This government (and the former Home Secretary) clearly does not see it as a priority Not sure about direct correlation. May be some. But at this point in time I would prefer resources to be put directly into trying to stop innocent people being killed. The policing of the internet needs a different approach that should not involve 900 ( if true) Met Police officers Far too sensible, BJR!
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 6, 2018 16:21:44 GMT
I would have thought there is a lot of overlap between hate crime and violent crime. We need an increase in police funding and numbers. This government (and the former Home Secretary) clearly does not see it as a priority Not sure about direct correlation. May be some. But at this point in time I would prefer resources to be put directly into trying to stop innocent people being killed. The policing of the internet needs a different approach that should not involve 900 ( if true) Met Police officers Agreed, but surely the 900 extra officers investigating hate crime won't just be policing the internet!
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Post by Northy on Apr 6, 2018 16:34:09 GMT
How to solve it stick the army on the streets and anyone who doesn’t seem to be disposed to empty there pockets when requested Shoot the fucker Shouldn’t take to long before the habit of carrying knives is a thing of the past "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security". I'd rather get stabbed by a crackhead than live in this nightmarish dystopia! good luck then, ive got to stay in ilford/romford next week, i wont be leaving the hotel in the evening.
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Post by felonious on Apr 6, 2018 16:40:02 GMT
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security". I'd rather get stabbed by a crackhead than live in this nightmarish dystopia! good luck then, ive got to stay in ilford/romford next week, i wont be leaving the hotel in the evening. Best to avoid Ilford at all costs
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 6, 2018 16:42:28 GMT
Not sure about direct correlation. May be some. But at this point in time I would prefer resources to be put directly into trying to stop innocent people being killed. The policing of the internet needs a different approach that should not involve 900 ( if true) Met Police officers Agreed, but surely the 900 extra officers investigating hate crime won't just be policing the internet! No, you're probably right, I may have misread it...I guess it depends on what they are actually doing. I am concerned that " hate crime" can seem to be defined impartially, subjectively....and can restrict discussion of some issues which need to be discussed. It does bother me if resources are focused MORE on what people SAY ( not that I am saying that this should be ignored) rather than confronting the problem head on. I recognise that people coming from a civil liberties angle may raise questions , but for me in this current situation...... I would like to see introduced.... identity cards, nil tolerance policing , stop and search....as ONE ( let me emphasize ONE) tool. It is not the solution , long term....we have to look at Parenting, single parenting, education, culture clash( both gang related and the wider concept....there have always been " gangs", often just with local allegiance), jobs and a hope for the future. Much of the violence is black on black , and the solution has got to come from within the black community...being a pragmatist I could accept the recruitment of more black police officers to police inner city, largely black communities.....a slippery slope in some ways , but I believe that is one way of dealing with the situation as it actually stands at present. Personally I would accept what some might call " heavy handed policing" in the PRESENT SITUATION....we need to change the culture...the old adage, if you have nothing to hide , why should you object to bring stopped and searched. If you carry a knife/ acid and you have the risk of being stopped and face , say, 5 years in prison for doing so ( and as an ex Policeman, I do fully recognise the difficulties of evidence/ loopholes But I think we are moving towards s situation in which we need to clamp down on potential offenders.( I am confident that I could think of a way to make it work)....and I believe that the vast majority of young people from those communities would absolutely welcome a clamp down, because they know that they are the most likely potential victims.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 6, 2018 17:16:57 GMT
Agreed, but surely the 900 extra officers investigating hate crime won't just be policing the internet! No, you're probably right, I may have misread it...I guess it depends on what they are actually doing. I am concerned that " hate crime" can seem to be defined impartially, subjectively....and can restrict discussion of some issues which need to be discussed. It does bother me if resources are focused MORE on what people SAY ( not that I am saying that this should be ignored) rather than confronting the problem head on. I recognise that people coming from a civil liberties angle may raise questions , but for me in this current situation...... I would like to see introduced.... identity cards, nil tolerance policing , stop and search....as ONE ( let me emphasize ONE) tool. It is not the solution , long term....we have to look at Parenting, single parenting, education, culture clash( both gang related and the wider concept....there have always been " gangs", often just with local allegiance), jobs and a hope for the future. Much of the violence is black on black , and the solution has got to come from within the black community...being a pragmatist I could accept the recruitment of more black police officers to police inner city, largely black communities.....a slippery slope in some ways , but I believe that is one way of dealing with the situation as it actually stands at present. Personally I would accept what some might call " heavy handed policing" in the PRESENT SITUATION....we need to change the culture...the old adage, if you have nothing to hide , why should you object to bring stopped and searched. If you carry a knife/ acid and you have the risk of being stopped and face , say, 5 years in prison for doing so ( and as an ex Policeman, I do fully recognise the difficulties of evidence/ loopholes But I think we are moving towards s situation in which we need to clamp down on potential offenders.( I am confident that I could think of a way to make it work)....and I believe that the vast majority of young people from those communities would absolutely welcome a clamp down, because they know that they are the most likely potential victims. The concept of "hate crime" (and more specifically "hate speech") as a specific criminal offence in its own right is incredibly concerning. As you say, it's so subjective and open to interpretation. Met Police shared something on Facebook not too long ago that said "If, you as a victim, feel that a crime has been committed against you on the grounds of race, sexuality etc, then that's all we need". Well, why does the motive behind a crime make a difference? And why does it command a heftier penalty? It's a creeping, insidious back-door route to having a "catch all" offence that means dissentors against the government can be silenced. Particularly the ludicrously pathetic "hate speech", which is a nonsense. You can't claim to believe in freedom of expression and have "hate speech" laws on the books. This country's leadership is becoming dangerous. I can't get on board with the ID Card / stop and search powers though, particarly with the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" mentality, which to me is really creepy authoritarianism. I have a right to provacy and a right to keep myself to myself and having done nothing wrong, a right to be left alone. Some arbitrary notion of increased security is nowhere near worth the price you suggest.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2018 17:37:57 GMT
Thr demographics of London and who they voted as mayor say's it all You shoehorn in a way to blame Muslims for anything and everything! Who said I was just talking about Muslims ? Making assumptions again ? I'm correct though
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 6, 2018 18:00:53 GMT
No, you're probably right, I may have misread it...I guess it depends on what they are actually doing. I am concerned that " hate crime" can seem to be defined impartially, subjectively....and can restrict discussion of some issues which need to be discussed. It does bother me if resources are focused MORE on what people SAY ( not that I am saying that this should be ignored) rather than confronting the problem head on. I recognise that people coming from a civil liberties angle may raise questions , but for me in this current situation...... I would like to see introduced.... identity cards, nil tolerance policing , stop and search....as ONE ( let me emphasize ONE) tool. It is not the solution , long term....we have to look at Parenting, single parenting, education, culture clash( both gang related and the wider concept....there have always been " gangs", often just with local allegiance), jobs and a hope for the future. Much of the violence is black on black , and the solution has got to come from within the black community...being a pragmatist I could accept the recruitment of more black police officers to police inner city, largely black communities.....a slippery slope in some ways , but I believe that is one way of dealing with the situation as it actually stands at present. Personally I would accept what some might call " heavy handed policing" in the PRESENT SITUATION....we need to change the culture...the old adage, if you have nothing to hide , why should you object to bring stopped and searched. If you carry a knife/ acid and you have the risk of being stopped and face , say, 5 years in prison for doing so ( and as an ex Policeman, I do fully recognise the difficulties of evidence/ loopholes But I think we are moving towards s situation in which we need to clamp down on potential offenders.( I am confident that I could think of a way to make it work)....and I believe that the vast majority of young people from those communities would absolutely welcome a clamp down, because they know that they are the most likely potential victims. The concept of "hate crime" (and more specifically "hate speech") as a specific criminal offence in its own right is incredibly concerning. As you say, it's so subjective and open to interpretation. Met Police shared something on Facebook not too long ago that said "If, you as a victim, feel that a crime has been committed against you on the grounds of race, sexuality etc, then that's all we need". Well, why does the motive behind a crime make a difference? And why does it command a heftier penalty? It's a creeping, insidious back-door route to having a "catch all" offence that means dissentors against the government can be silenced. Particularly the ludicrously pathetic "hate speech", which is a nonsense. You can't claim to believe in freedom of expression and have "hate speech" laws on the books. This country's leadership is becoming dangerous. I can't get on board with the ID Card / stop and search powers though, particarly with the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" mentality, which to me is really creepy authoritarianism. I have a right to provacy and a right to keep myself to myself and having done nothing wrong, a right to be left alone. Some arbitrary notion of increased security is nowhere near worth the price you suggest. Personally , what I have in mind, re stop and search would not be as intrusive as some imagine. I think it is a shame that it has come to this. I have a problem with the amount of CCTV cameras that we have. Should be no need for any if it. Concrete barriers alongside " vulnerable targets " in cities. Checks at airports etc. So for me ( and more importantly , young people) out in a Friday and Saturday night, if stopped and cooperate, no problems. If they are carrying a knife, who could kill my/ your son....they deserve what they get. I can think of no more direct way of clamping down on the issue, as long as the sentencing matched the crime. Just might stop a few from carrying knives. Same principle for me.,....I've been stopped three times and breathalysed....if I was over the limit it would have been my fault....but being stopped could have prevented deaths of innocent people. Last week I went to a tax office meeting and had to produce 2 forms of id.....for me I think that the time has come to formalise it, with photo ID( not just a passport)... obviously a lot of discussion needed on how to /cost of implementation/ policing... .... although I am open to a change my mind
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Post by bathstoke on Apr 6, 2018 18:09:47 GMT
Agreed, but surely the 900 extra officers investigating hate crime won't just be policing the internet! No, you're probably right, I may have misread it...I guess it depends on what they are actually doing. I am concerned that " hate crime" can seem to be defined impartially, subjectively....and can restrict discussion of some issues which need to be discussed. It does bother me if resources are focused MORE on what people SAY ( not that I am saying that this should be ignored) rather than confronting the problem head on. I recognise that people coming from a civil liberties angle may raise questions , but for me in this current situation...... I would like to see introduced.... identity cards, nil tolerance policing , stop and search....as ONE ( let me emphasize ONE) tool. It is not the solution , long term....we have to look at Parenting, single parenting, education, culture clash( both gang related and the wider concept....there have always been " gangs", often just with local allegiance), jobs and a hope for the future. Much of the violence is black on black , and the solution has got to come from within the black community...being a pragmatist I could accept the recruitment of more black police officers to police inner city, largely black communities.....a slippery slope in some ways , but I believe that is one way of dealing with the situation as it actually stands at present. Personally I would accept what some might call " heavy handed policing" in the PRESENT SITUATION....we need to change the culture...the old adage, if you have nothing to hide , why should you object to bring stopped and searched. If you carry a knife/ acid and you have the risk of being stopped and face , say, 5 years in prison for doing so ( and as an ex Policeman, I do fully recognise the difficulties of evidence/ loopholes But I think we are moving towards s situation in which we need to clamp down on potential offenders.( I am confident that I could think of a way to make it work)....and I believe that the vast majority of young people from those communities would absolutely welcome a clamp down, because they know that they are the most likely potential victims. WTF is this...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 6, 2018 18:24:19 GMT
No, you're probably right, I may have misread it...I guess it depends on what they are actually doing. I am concerned that " hate crime" can seem to be defined impartially, subjectively....and can restrict discussion of some issues which need to be discussed. It does bother me if resources are focused MORE on what people SAY ( not that I am saying that this should be ignored) rather than confronting the problem head on. I recognise that people coming from a civil liberties angle may raise questions , but for me in this current situation...... I would like to see introduced.... identity cards, nil tolerance policing , stop and search....as ONE ( let me emphasize ONE) tool. It is not the solution , long term....we have to look at Parenting, single parenting, education, culture clash( both gang related and the wider concept....there have always been " gangs", often just with local allegiance), jobs and a hope for the future. Much of the violence is black on black , and the solution has got to come from within the black community...being a pragmatist I could accept the recruitment of more black police officers to police inner city, largely black communities.....a slippery slope in some ways , but I believe that is one way of dealing with the situation as it actually stands at present. Personally I would accept what some might call " heavy handed policing" in the PRESENT SITUATION....we need to change the culture...the old adage, if you have nothing to hide , why should you object to bring stopped and searched. If you carry a knife/ acid and you have the risk of being stopped and face , say, 5 years in prison for doing so ( and as an ex Policeman, I do fully recognise the difficulties of evidence/ loopholes But I think we are moving towards s situation in which we need to clamp down on potential offenders.( I am confident that I could think of a way to make it work)....and I believe that the vast majority of young people from those communities would absolutely welcome a clamp down, because they know that they are the most likely potential victims. WTF is this... I think it says" No, you're probably right, I may have misread it...I guess it depends on what they are actually doing. I am concerned that " hate crime" can seem to be defined impartially, subjectively....and can restrict discussion of some issues which need to be discussed. It does bother me if resources are focused MORE on what people SAY ( not that I am saying that this should be ignored) rather than confronting the problem head on. I recognise that people coming from a civil liberties angle may raise questions , but for me in this current situation...... I would like to see introduced.... identity cards, nil tolerance policing , stop and search....as ONE ( let me emphasize ONE) tool. It is not the solution , long term....we have to look at Parenting, single parenting, education, culture clash( both gang related and the wider concept....there have always been " gangs", often just with local allegiance), jobs and a hope for the future. Much of the violence is black on black , and the solution has got to come from within the black community...being a pragmatist I could accept the recruitment of more black police officers to police inner city, largely black communities.....a slippery slope in some ways , but I believe that is one way of dealing with the situation as it actually stands at present. Personally I would accept what some might call " heavy handed policing" in the PRESENT SITUATION....we need to change the culture...the old adage, if you have nothing to hide , why should you object to bring stopped and searched. If you carry a knife/ acid and you have the risk of being stopped and face , say, 5 years in prison for doing so ( and as an ex Policeman, I do fully recognise the difficulties of evidence/ loopholes But I think we are moving towards s situation in which we need to clamp down on potential offenders.( I am confident that I could think of a way to make it work)....and I believe that the vast majority of young people from those communities would absolutely welcome a clamp down, because they know that they are the most likely potential victims" as my opinion on an approach to knife crime in the inner cities.....but open to discussion. What would you do?
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