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Post by Ryan_Shawjosh on Mar 19, 2018 17:58:24 GMT
Bowen claimed Bauer was their find so that contradicts them not having a say in transfers. Hughes isn't a good manager and the following link proves it. It shows it's not the first time he's nearly destroyed a defence and it shows he can't manage players. Regardless of if it was right, in hindsight, for the players to do what they wanted tactically, why did he stand for that? Poor tactics and even poorer man management. www.football365.com/news/fulham-legend-we-thrived-under-hughes-because-we-ignored-him
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 19, 2018 18:00:31 GMT
Bowen claimed Bauer was their find so that contradicts them not having a say in transfers. Hughes isn't a good manager and the following link proves it. It shows it's not the first time he's nearly destroyed a defence and it shows he can't manage players. Regardless of if it was right, in hindsight, for the players to do what they wanted tactically, why did he stand for that? Poor tactics and even poorer man management. www.football365.com/news/fulham-legend-we-thrived-under-hughes-because-we-ignored-himIt doesn't really 'prove it' any more than Savage loving him proves he's an amazing manager does it?
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Post by Absolution on Mar 19, 2018 18:22:56 GMT
They got him precisely because the transfer window is closed and put him on a contract until the end of the season. Its a masterstroke. He's perfect for what they need and will keep them up. Apart from the whole 'slow starter' thing... That's when he's had them on his pre-season training routine. He'll probably keep them up, be given the gig full time, parade the FA Cup round the pitch then win the first 6 matches of next season. Grrrrrrrrrr...
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Mar 19, 2018 18:55:21 GMT
Hughes can easily become the greatest manager ever in my eyes...
...if he takes 2 out of the 3 "Colossal" signings he has lumbered us with! Imbula, Wimmer & Berahino would love Southampton!
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Post by robstokie on Mar 19, 2018 20:00:47 GMT
I think Sparky is good WHEN he comes into a squad and there's a solid base there for him to build on - he had a solid base at Blackburn, Fulham and with us. He has that too at Soton, despite the fact they have struggled big time this season. He has a knack for pushing a team up a level for 2-3 seasons.
Where he falls down is when he has to build a team after he's been somewhere a while...
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Post by stokeykez on Mar 19, 2018 22:53:18 GMT
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Southampton beat Wigan and whilst I'm a believer that he could get a bounce they have got some real bastard fixtures. Let's give it a bit of time !!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 23:28:02 GMT
This is just a total myth. Hughes chased berahino himself for 2 seasons. No, the myth is that Hughes, while managing a football club that was doing reasonably well at the time and had other transfer targets, had enough time to personally scout and chase Berahino non stop for 2 seasons. Anyone can see this is not possible. There are old school managers that actually run up and down the country round the clock to look at potential players, but this was never Hughes' style. When he left the office each day he did not think about football until he turned up the next morning. What we had/have is a transfer committee. John Coates is the money man, Scholes the gofer, Cartwright the DOF, the chief scout (not sure who at the moment), and the manager who contributes with his own contacts and ideas and allegedly has the final word on whether or not a player is signed. The manager is the spokesperson for trransfer activities (most other spokesduties are handled by PC). Each of those will have a list of players they want to sign. Then when the transfer window rolls around lists go out the window when they realise that other clubs want them too and will pay more money, bigger wages, offer more perks , pay the agent bigger percentages etc, they are suddenly stuck with the Wimmers of this world, or risk not signing anyone at all. That's where the alleged 'manager has the final word' goes out the window. It's either we sign this Austrian or we don't get anyone at all, is the more likely scenario. So because Hughes is the spokesman for transfer activities some people have come to believe that Hughes is personally responsible for signing players. After all that is the way things have been since signing players became possible, until DOFs arrived and had the chairman's trust. And while things looked good and Imbula et al looked like players who could do great things for us, Hughes was happy to take credit for signing those players. He was responsible for bringing Muni and Bojan on board through his personal contacts, and many subsequent transfers might not have happened if those two had not arrived first. But the quickness with which he dropped players suggests they were not really his favourite people to begin with. Berahino, rather than being his favourite son, becane the first nail in Hughes' coffin. Although he stated at the time of the signing that it would be six months before Saido was up for it, he played him from the beginning anyway, which simply did not work, and so we got in the habit of losing matches last year, in the second half of the season. Berahino looked a bad fit for us from the beginning and despite offering him many chances, he never fit in for Hughes/us. We've never really recovered, and Saturday Berahino came on once again for no good purpose at all. Nail on the head, son, nail on the head.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 15:31:40 GMT
I don't disagree above. By the time the transfer window was ending Hughes was in position to turn down a "proven" goalscorer. But taking the player (among other things) ended up costing him his job. It's not just 'taking' the player, Hughes surely wanted him and was at the forefront of driving the signing? You don't have a top target your manager isn't fussed about. He'd hardly have taken much 'scouting' either would he? Everyone had heard of him. Yes but the decisionmakers - including Hughes - chose to overhear the bad things that were said about Berahino. Maybe the drugs weren't common knowledge at the time, but his aversion to authority figures (such as the WBA chairman and managers), his problems with the squad at large, his playing for himself not the team were. He probably wasn't "top target" but the reason why they were still keen on the player was that they couldn't get other strikers in the same bracket to join Stoke.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2018 16:59:02 GMT
It's not just 'taking' the player, Hughes surely wanted him and was at the forefront of driving the signing? You don't have a top target your manager isn't fussed about. He'd hardly have taken much 'scouting' either would he? Everyone had heard of him. Yes but the decisionmakers - including Hughes - chose to overhear the bad things that were said about Berahino. Maybe the drugs weren't common knowledge at the time, but his aversion to authority figures (such as the WBA chairman and managers), his problems with the squad at large, his playing for himself not the team were. He probably wasn't "top target" but the reason why they were still keen on the player was that they couldn't get other strikers in the same bracket to join Stoke. I get the impression he very much was top target.
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Post by stokiegav on Mar 20, 2018 17:52:59 GMT
No, the myth is that Hughes, while managing a football club that was doing reasonably well at the time and had other transfer targets, had enough time to personally scout and chase Berahino non stop for 2 seasons. Anyone can see this is not possible. There are old school managers that actually run up and down the country round the clock to look at potential players, but this was never Hughes' style. When he left the office each day he did not think about football until he turned up the next morning. What we had/have is a transfer committee. John Coates is the money man, Scholes the gofer, Cartwright the DOF, the chief scout (not sure who at the moment), and the manager who contributes with his own contacts and ideas and allegedly has the final word on whether or not a player is signed. The manager is the spokesperson for trransfer activities (most other spokesduties are handled by PC). Each of those will have a list of players they want to sign. Then when the transfer window rolls around lists go out the window when they realise that other clubs want them too and will pay more money, bigger wages, offer more perks , pay the agent bigger percentages etc, they are suddenly stuck with the Wimmers of this world, or risk not signing anyone at all. That's where the alleged 'manager has the final word' goes out the window. It's either we sign this Austrian or we don't get anyone at all, is the more likely scenario. So because Hughes is the spokesman for transfer activities some people have come to believe that Hughes is personally responsible for signing players. After all that is the way things have been since signing players became possible, until DOFs arrived and had the chairman's trust. And while things looked good and Imbula et al looked like players who could do great things for us, Hughes was happy to take credit for signing those players. He was responsible for bringing Muni and Bojan on board through his personal contacts, and many subsequent transfers might not have happened if those two had not arrived first. But the quickness with which he dropped players suggests they were not really his favourite people to begin with. Berahino, rather than being his favourite son, becane the first nail in Hughes' coffin. Although he stated at the time of the signing that it would be six months before Saido was up for it, he played him from the beginning anyway, which simply did not work, and so we got in the habit of losing matches last year, in the second half of the season. Berahino looked a bad fit for us from the beginning and despite offering him many chances, he never fit in for Hughes/us. We've never really recovered, and Saturday Berahino came on once again for no good purpose at all. We wouldn't have signed anyone Hughes didn't want. That's not the way these set-ups generally work. He'd at least have had a power of veto with players he didn't personally identify and the determination with which we pursued Berahino suggests strongly it was spearheaded by the manager. We're not going to expend that amount of time and be willing to spend that amount of money on someone who isn't going to play because the manager doesn't want him. And yet wasn't a big part of the reason pulis left because butland n Shea were brought in without his permission? Are we to believe the board suddenly changed its spots with a new incumbent? Or is it more likely they cemented their control over transfers with a take it or leave it offer to Hughes (who wasn't exactly beating away offers)? I think it would be more surprising if this didn't happen - what else could possibly explain the way he treated berahino sobhi et al? A mental breakdown? And it may well be that hughes had a veto but so what....I have a veto at work but if I ever went against the boss there's a huge number of ways they could make my life hell.... Also most of the players brought in all looked good on paper or were promising dogs home type gambles - maybe Hughes thought ok sounds good (like we all did tbf) and when he saw the actual product didn't like it? Having a transfer committee is pretty common place now - it's supposed to give stability the problem is ours has been steadily crap without the ambition and funds to put right the inevitable mistakes we made
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 20, 2018 18:09:33 GMT
We wouldn't have signed anyone Hughes didn't want. That's not the way these set-ups generally work. He'd at least have had a power of veto with players he didn't personally identify and the determination with which we pursued Berahino suggests strongly it was spearheaded by the manager. We're not going to expend that amount of time and be willing to spend that amount of money on someone who isn't going to play because the manager doesn't want him. And yet wasn't a big part of the reason pulis left because butland n Shea were brought in without his permission? Are we to believe the board suddenly changed its spots with a new incumbent? Or is it more likely they cemented their control over transfers with a take it or leave it offer to Hughes (who wasn't exactly beating away offers)? I think it would be more surprising if this didn't happen - what else could possibly explain the way he treated berahino sobhi et al? A mental breakdown? And it may well be that hughes had a veto but so what....I have a veto at work but if I ever went against the boss there's a huge number of ways they could make my life hell.... Also most of the players brought in all looked good on paper or were promising dogs home type gambles - maybe Hughes thought ok sounds good (like we all did tbf) and when he saw the actual product didn't like it? Having a transfer committee is pretty common place now - it's supposed to give stability the problem is ours has been steadily crap without the ambition and funds to put right the inevitable mistakes we made Pulis was sacked. I'd be surprised if he didn't want Butland. Shea he almost certainly didn't want and had to play ball but as you say, that clearly had an adverse effect on relations at the top. If you look at the actual players we've signed, the vast, vast majority of them all fit the Mark Hughes type of signing. Barcelona and Bundesliga contacts and players he'd worked with before in many cases. Why would the club so determinedly pursue a player and spend so much of the money Peter Coates preciously guards on a player they knew full well wasn't going to play much because the manager didn't want him? Do you really think Peter Coates, who publicly questioned the big money signings of players his manager did want, is going to go for that? That isn't how these set ups tend to work. Why would Mark Hughes put up with 'having his life made hell'? He could have just walked away (like he did at Fulham) and publicly called the club out for it.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 25, 2018 23:36:47 GMT
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