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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 14, 2018 23:00:12 GMT
Yet you’ve got nothing to counter it with... I've countered it many times. Some posters on here lavish him like he was some kind of god whilst he was here, and that was clearly not true. He was a good player, but we've had many of those over the past 10 years. He's done ok for himself, granted. He plays for a decent (not great) Spanish side, and that somehow makes people rewrite history that he was somehow some kind of "walks on water" genius when he was at our club. That isn't true. He had a couple of decent years followed by a really good one, which got him his move. That's it. He wasn't an outstanding player for us. And he isn't an outstanding player that will ever go onto to play for one of the big European teams. And what was the counter to that specific argument, because you certainly haven’t made it in that post? Who gives a fuck who he goes on to play for? Pericard played for Juventus. Fuller played for Preston. Ric’s influence for Stoke at least shades it I think you’ll agree. We haven’t had a better central midfielder than Nzonzi in the 27 years I’ve been watching the team.
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Nzonzi
Mar 14, 2018 23:38:15 GMT
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Mar 14, 2018 23:38:15 GMT
If anyone isn’t pretending it’s the view we had to sell him the. For £6m or whatever , We simply did not , legally we had him toed up for another year anyway . But let’s ask a supplementary , why on God’s earth was our best player allowed to run to final yesr because we wanted to save money well that worked out well , did we learn no so Arnie got to final year too incompetence at the very Core of our club . He asked for a transfer every year, and apart from holding him hostage and putting a gun to his head how exactly would you get him to sign a new contract when he wanted European football? Also Arnie wasn't on his last year either he signed a new 4 year deal in 2016. H My point was Arnie was already in his last year when he signed , as per Nzonzi look at Ozil he just signed in his last year and Sanchez left for a good fee with six months left , we will never know because the first time an offer appeared we opened our legs and laid Back . Do you think he’d have left Southampton for that price
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Nzonzi
Mar 15, 2018 0:04:50 GMT
Post by mrcoke on Mar 15, 2018 0:04:50 GMT
He was the best MF we have had for many many years, possibly since Hudson although not the same type of player. Hudson created goals, N'Zonzi kept possession.
You knew when he received the ball he was not going to lose it. Under Pulis he was clearly under instruction not to go forward with the ball, Hughes encouraged him to be more adventurous, but he was by nature cautious and would pass sideways or backwards more often than not.
Personally I always felt "relaxed" when he received the ball, I knew he would not lose it. But I also knew he he would often slow the game down, and with he languid style he tended to frustrate because you felt he was always capable of doing much more than he usually did.
He was appreciated by most fans and voted player of the year, but N'Zonzi did not appreciate being at Stoke. He and his father were ambitious, every summer he was agitating for a new contract, and in his last summer refused to accept a very lucrative contract. He clearly wanted out and the cause of some disquiet in the club with the bad publicity from some personal incidents.
There is no way (Benji) the club should have run his contract down to zero value; Stoke did the right thing to sell him for what they could get. Only Norwich made a paltry offer, and in the end the Seville offer was accepted, and he left to take less money there. There is no problem with ambition; he wanted CL football and improve his chances of playing for France, which he finally achieved last November, and probably would not have if he was still playing for Stoke. Forcing him to see his contract out risked major disruption in the dressing room.
What irks me in this whole debate is those posters who build N'Zonzi up as some sort of super star player. He is not. The top 6 clubs in the Prem have chosen not to touch him either because he is not good enough or because of his character. He has finally got into the French team for a friendly but I would suggest it is very touch and go whether he will get to the WC. He used to get masses of criticism on this board which is probably more a reflection on those posters than N'Zonzi. But equally why people want to build him up as some sort of star player now is beyond me; they are equally as wrong. I voted for him as POTS because he was consistently our best player, but I have no delusions on how good he is. The best he could hope for if he returned to the Prem would be Everton or West Ham.
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Nzonzi
Mar 15, 2018 2:17:38 GMT
Post by spitthedog on Mar 15, 2018 2:17:38 GMT
He was the best MF we have had for many many years, possibly since Hudson although not the same type of player. Hudson created goals, N'Zonzi kept possession. You knew when he received the ball he was not going to lose it. Under Pulis he was clearly under instruction not to go forward with the ball, Hughes encouraged him to be more adventurous, but he was by nature cautious and would pass sideways or backwards more often than not. Personally I always felt "relaxed" when he received the ball, I knew he would not lose it. But I also knew he he would often slow the game down, and with he languid style he tended to frustrate because you felt he was always capable of doing much more than he usually did. He was appreciated by most fans and voted player of the year, but N'Zonzi did not appreciate being at Stoke. He and his father were ambitious, every summer he was agitating for a new contract, and in his last summer refused to accept a very lucrative contract. He clearly wanted out and the cause of some disquiet in the club with the bad publicity from some personal incidents. There is no way (Benji) the club should have run his contract down to zero value; Stoke did the right thing to sell him for what they could get. Only Norwich made a paltry offer, and in the end the Seville offer was accepted, and he left to take less money there. There is no problem with ambition; he wanted CL football and improve his chances of playing for France, which he finally achieved last November, and probably would not have if he was still playing for Stoke. Forcing him to see his contract out risked major disruption in the dressing room. What irks me in this whole debate is those posters who build N'Zonzi up as some sort of super star player. He is not. The top 6 clubs in the Prem have chosen not to touch him either because he is not good enough or because of his character. He has finally got into the French team for a friendly but I would suggest it is very touch and go whether he will get to the WC. He used to get masses of criticism on this board which is probably more a reflection on those posters than N'Zonzi. But equally why people want to build him up as some sort of star player now is beyond me; they are equally as wrong. I voted for him as POTS because he was consistently our best player, but I have no delusions on how good he is. The best he could hope for if he returned to the Prem would be Everton or West Ham. You make some decent points...but I don't think anyone is under the illusion that he is a superstar.....he would never have ever played for Stoke to begin with if he was. But surely being the best midfield player next to Hudson is about as good as we are ever going to get at this club? and I bet most Man Utd fans would readily swap him for Pogba or Sanchez at the moment.
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Post by RAF on Mar 15, 2018 6:20:18 GMT
He asked for a transfer every year, and apart from holding him hostage and putting a gun to his head how exactly would you get him to sign a new contract when he wanted European football? Also Arnie wasn't on his last year either he signed a new 4 year deal in 2016. H My point was Arnie was already in his last year when he signed , as per Nzonzi look at Ozil he just signed in his last year and Sanchez left for a good fee with six months left , we will never know because the first time an offer appeared we opened our legs and laid Back . Do you think he’d have left Southampton for that price Are you seriously using Sanchez as an example? The same Sanchez that had scored 60 goals in 122 appearances for Arsenal and was subject to a bidding war between Man Utd and Man City? Seville were the only interested party for Nzonzi where he could get European Football. The club has been guilty of some fucking ridiculous mistakes but their hands were tied with this one. The really big fuck up was not replacing him adequately. H
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 7:33:03 GMT
A lot of what he did last night was backwards and sideways. What he does do extremely well is that you can give him the ball in the tightest of situations and won't lose it - absolute "go to" man for that. A nailed on "get out of jail" for the rest of his midfield colleagues. However as for spreading the ball about, switching play, changing the pace of the game or finding a killer pass - there are far better exponents. He may not have made “killer passes” but he completely controlled the pace and tempo of the game for Seville. If that’s not stamping your authority on a game I’m not sure what is...?
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Nzonzi
Mar 15, 2018 7:45:27 GMT
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mrcoke likes this
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 7:45:27 GMT
He was the best MF we have had for many many years, possibly since Hudson although not the same type of player. Hudson created goals, N'Zonzi kept possession. You knew when he received the ball he was not going to lose it. Under Pulis he was clearly under instruction not to go forward with the ball, Hughes encouraged him to be more adventurous, but he was by nature cautious and would pass sideways or backwards more often than not. Personally I always felt "relaxed" when he received the ball, I knew he would not lose it. But I also knew he he would often slow the game down, and with he languid style he tended to frustrate because you felt he was always capable of doing much more than he usually did. He was appreciated by most fans and voted player of the year, but N'Zonzi did not appreciate being at Stoke. He and his father were ambitious, every summer he was agitating for a new contract, and in his last summer refused to accept a very lucrative contract. He clearly wanted out and the cause of some disquiet in the club with the bad publicity from some personal incidents. There is no way (Benji) the club should have run his contract down to zero value; Stoke did the right thing to sell him for what they could get. Only Norwich made a paltry offer, and in the end the Seville offer was accepted, and he left to take less money there. There is no problem with ambition; he wanted CL football and improve his chances of playing for France, which he finally achieved last November, and probably would not have if he was still playing for Stoke. Forcing him to see his contract out risked major disruption in the dressing room. What irks me in this whole debate is those posters who build N'Zonzi up as some sort of super star player. He is not. The top 6 clubs in the Prem have chosen not to touch him either because he is not good enough or because of his character. He has finally got into the French team for a friendly but I would suggest it is very touch and go whether he will get to the WC. He used to get masses of criticism on this board which is probably more a reflection on those posters than N'Zonzi. But equally why people want to build him up as some sort of star player now is beyond me; they are equally as wrong. I voted for him as POTS because he was consistently our best player, but I have no delusions on how good he is. The best he could hope for if he returned to the Prem would be Everton or West Ham. You make some decent points...but I don't think anyone is under the illusion that he is a superstar.....he would never have ever played for Stoke to begin with if he was. But surely being the best midfield player next to Hudson is about as good as we are ever going to get at this club? and I bet most Man Utd fans would readily swap him for Pogba or Sanchez at the moment. I don't think Hudson has got the legs in him to play in the Premier League nowadays.
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Nzonzi
Mar 15, 2018 8:51:47 GMT
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 15, 2018 8:51:47 GMT
A lot of what he did last night was backwards and sideways. What he does do extremely well is that you can give him the ball in the tightest of situations and won't lose it - absolute "go to" man for that. A nailed on "get out of jail" for the rest of his midfield colleagues. However as for spreading the ball about, switching play, changing the pace of the game or finding a killer pass - there are far better exponents. He may not have made “killer passes” but he completely controlled the pace and tempo of the game for Seville. If that’s not stamping your authority on a game I’m not sure what is...? Asa Hartford was similar
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Nzonzi
Mar 15, 2018 19:17:54 GMT
Post by mrcoke on Mar 15, 2018 19:17:54 GMT
He was the best MF we have had for many many years, possibly since Hudson although not the same type of player. Hudson created goals, N'Zonzi kept possession. You knew when he received the ball he was not going to lose it. Under Pulis he was clearly under instruction not to go forward with the ball, Hughes encouraged him to be more adventurous, but he was by nature cautious and would pass sideways or backwards more often than not. Personally I always felt "relaxed" when he received the ball, I knew he would not lose it. But I also knew he he would often slow the game down, and with he languid style he tended to frustrate because you felt he was always capable of doing much more than he usually did. He was appreciated by most fans and voted player of the year, but N'Zonzi did not appreciate being at Stoke. He and his father were ambitious, every summer he was agitating for a new contract, and in his last summer refused to accept a very lucrative contract. He clearly wanted out and the cause of some disquiet in the club with the bad publicity from some personal incidents. There is no way (Benji) the club should have run his contract down to zero value; Stoke did the right thing to sell him for what they could get. Only Norwich made a paltry offer, and in the end the Seville offer was accepted, and he left to take less money there. There is no problem with ambition; he wanted CL football and improve his chances of playing for France, which he finally achieved last November, and probably would not have if he was still playing for Stoke. Forcing him to see his contract out risked major disruption in the dressing room. What irks me in this whole debate is those posters who build N'Zonzi up as some sort of super star player. He is not. The top 6 clubs in the Prem have chosen not to touch him either because he is not good enough or because of his character. He has finally got into the French team for a friendly but I would suggest it is very touch and go whether he will get to the WC. He used to get masses of criticism on this board which is probably more a reflection on those posters than N'Zonzi. But equally why people want to build him up as some sort of star player now is beyond me; they are equally as wrong. I voted for him as POTS because he was consistently our best player, but I have no delusions on how good he is. The best he could hope for if he returned to the Prem would be Everton or West Ham. You make some decent points...but I don't think anyone is under the illusion that he is a superstar.....he would never have ever played for Stoke to begin with if he was. But surely being the best midfield player next to Hudson is about as good as we are ever going to get at this club? and I bet most Man Utd fans would readily swap him for Pogba or Sanchez at the moment. I put your comment to a ManU fan who is a relative of mine. He's a senior manager in a major UK company and his response was: "Haha,
No, Pogba and Sanchez every day over Nzonzi. Both have more ability, flair and game changing traits over Nzonzi.
The problem is Mourinho, we need to ship him out for a manager who is more attacking in style - hate to say it but Klopp. This would bring the best out of both Utd players mentioned."
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Nzonzi
Mar 15, 2018 19:22:37 GMT
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Post by andystokey on Mar 15, 2018 19:22:37 GMT
Is it fair to speculate just how much of Hughes' initial success here was actually down to to the fact that he had N'Zonzi in his team, a bit like Rodgers with Suarez at Liverpool? He was the player that allowed the transition. It was a big ask to do what Hughes did but having such a calm and composed player in midfield allowed him to do it. Need I ask why both Zonz and Arnie couldn't be persuaded to stay by manager or board? #
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2018 19:46:44 GMT
He was the player that allowed the transition. It was a big ask to do what Hughes did but having such a calm and composed player in midfield allowed him to do it. Need I ask why both Zonz and Arnie couldn't be persuaded to stay by manager or board? # Because one got an offer from a club in the Champions League and the other is a mercenary who was offered an extra 30-40k a week?
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Nzonzi
Mar 15, 2018 20:05:31 GMT
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Post by andystokey on Mar 15, 2018 20:05:31 GMT
Need I ask why both Zonz and Arnie couldn't be persuaded to stay by manager or board? # Because one got an offer from a club in the Champions League and the other is a mercenary who was offered an extra 30-40k a week? Not strictly true, they both "engineered" a move through their agent ( family) Players happy with their lot don't "engineer" moves unless they are unhappy with the project or think they can simply earn more. I have no problem with players bettering themselves by the way. But it does give an insight. People talk about Huddy in the same breath. But Waddo did accept his shortcomings off the pitch and did build a team around him. In terms of ambition he drew him away from the Kings Road and very nearly got Osgood to follow too. With the rest of that team we were ready to win a league. That's #ambition and importantly charisma of a manager who had a project players could buy into.
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Post by tqstokie on Mar 15, 2018 20:14:23 GMT
Nzonzi was nowhere near the player Hudson was. The two don't bear comparison. Hudson ran the team and the game. Definitely the finest player in a Stoke shirt I have seen in 60 years
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2018 20:49:28 GMT
Because one got an offer from a club in the Champions League and the other is a mercenary who was offered an extra 30-40k a week? Not strictly true, they both "engineered" a move through their agent ( family) Players happy with their lot don't "engineer" moves unless they are unhappy with the project or think they can simply earn more. I have no problem with players bettering themselves by the way. But it does give an insight. People talk about Huddy in the same breath. But Waddo did accept his shortcomings off the pitch and did build a team around him. In terms of ambition he drew him away from the Kings Road and very nearly got Osgood to follow too. With the rest of that team we were ready to win a league. That's #ambition and importantly charisma of a manager who had a project players could buy into. You can’t ‘engineer’ a move if there’s no one interested. Arnie was so unhappy with his lot that he signed a new contract amid interest from Everton. Nzonzi’s entourage clearly keep him as unsettled as possible to keep him moving on.
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Nzonzi
Mar 16, 2018 10:59:58 GMT
Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 16, 2018 10:59:58 GMT
A lot of what he did last night was backwards and sideways. What he does do extremely well is that you can give him the ball in the tightest of situations and won't lose it - absolute "go to" man for that. A nailed on "get out of jail" for the rest of his midfield colleagues. However as for spreading the ball about, switching play, changing the pace of the game or finding a killer pass - there are far better exponents. He may not have made “killer passes” but he completely controlled the pace and tempo of the game for Seville. If that’s not stamping your authority on a game I’m not sure what is...? He "stamped his authority" on the game because United let him. No-body pressed him. Mourihno got it wrong. Simple as that. Will be interesting to see if he has as much time on the ball in the next round.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 16, 2018 14:01:58 GMT
Nzonzi was nowhere near the player Hudson was. The two don't bear comparison. Hudson ran the team and the game. Definitely the finest player in a Stoke shirt I have seen in 60 years Dead right. Imagine Hudson playing on today's pitches and protected by today's referees.
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 16, 2018 20:56:40 GMT
You make some decent points...but I don't think anyone is under the illusion that he is a superstar.....he would never have ever played for Stoke to begin with if he was. But surely being the best midfield player next to Hudson is about as good as we are ever going to get at this club? and I bet most Man Utd fans would readily swap him for Pogba or Sanchez at the moment. I put your comment to a ManU fan who is a relative of mine. He's a senior manager in a major UK company and his response was: "Haha,
No, Pogba and Sanchez every day over Nzonzi. Both have more ability, flair and game changing traits over Nzonzi.
The problem is Mourinho, we need to ship him out for a manager who is more attacking in style - hate to say it but Klopp. This would bring the best out of both Utd players mentioned."Well I hope they will be very happy together then! btw I didn't really get how being a senior manager of a major UK company makes anyone an expert on football!
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Nzonzi
Mar 16, 2018 20:57:13 GMT
Post by spitthedog on Mar 16, 2018 20:57:13 GMT
Nzonzi was nowhere near the player Hudson was. The two don't bear comparison. Hudson ran the team and the game. Definitely the finest player in a Stoke shirt I have seen in 60 years did anyone suggest that?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 17, 2018 18:43:39 GMT
Selected in the French 23 for the World Cup 👍
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Nzonzi
May 17, 2018 18:48:48 GMT
Post by FullerMagic on May 17, 2018 18:48:48 GMT
Selected in the French 23 for the World Cup 👍 Bit of a shock. He's easily good enough though..
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Nzonzi
May 17, 2018 18:51:35 GMT
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Post by StatesideStokie on May 17, 2018 18:51:35 GMT
Nzonzi was nowhere near the player Hudson was. The two don't bear comparison. Hudson ran the team and the game. Definitely the finest player in a Stoke shirt I have seen in 60 years Dead right. Imagine Hudson playing on today's pitches and protected by today's referees. Imagine Hudson today trying to keep up with the game after a night on the lash. Never saw him play, but if you’re going to compare conditions from two different eras, let’s look at both sides of the story. He may well have received more protection in the modern game, and had the luxury of immaculate pitches, but from what I’ve heard and read, there’s a good chance he wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the modern game.
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Post by cheadlestokie on May 17, 2018 18:57:00 GMT
Dead right. Imagine Hudson playing on today's pitches and protected by today's referees. Imagine Hudson today trying to keep up with the game after a night on the lash. Never saw him play, but if you’re going to compare conditions from two different eras, let’s look at both sides of the story. He may well have received more protection in the modern game, and had the luxury of immaculate pitches, but from what I’ve heard and read, there’s a good chance he wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the modern game. You have been reading the wrong papers and listening to the wrong people.
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Nzonzi
May 17, 2018 19:01:55 GMT
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Post by polofrance on May 17, 2018 19:01:55 GMT
Zouma on standby also
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Nzonzi
May 17, 2018 19:06:31 GMT
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on May 17, 2018 19:06:31 GMT
Dead right. Imagine Hudson playing on today's pitches and protected by today's referees. Imagine Hudson today trying to keep up with the game after a night on the lash. Never saw him play, but if you’re going to compare conditions from two different eras, let’s look at both sides of the story. He may well have received more protection in the modern game, and had the luxury of immaculate pitches, but from what I’ve heard and read, there’s a good chance he wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the modern game. Take it today's players don't have nights out then??? With the exception of Wilsher, Rooney, Gerrard.....
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Post by harryburrows on May 17, 2018 19:10:35 GMT
Nzonzi bought the best out of Bojan , they definitely had chemistry
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Post by lordb on May 17, 2018 19:47:03 GMT
Dead right. Imagine Hudson playing on today's pitches and protected by today's referees. Imagine Hudson today trying to keep up with the game after a night on the lash. Never saw him play, but if you’re going to compare conditions from two different eras, let’s look at both sides of the story. He may well have received more protection in the modern game, and had the luxury of immaculate pitches, but from what I’ve heard and read, there’s a good chance he wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the modern game. Ha ha ha! Hudson,even whilst pissed,would have been an absolute superstar.
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Nzonzi
May 17, 2018 20:09:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:09:45 GMT
Nzonzi bought the best out of Bojan , the definitely had chemistry Thats because he could play football.
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Nzonzi
May 17, 2018 20:11:59 GMT
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Post by Cast no shadow on May 17, 2018 20:11:59 GMT
Well done zonz
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Nzonzi
May 17, 2018 20:20:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:20:02 GMT
Congratulations Steven
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Nzonzi
May 17, 2018 20:28:16 GMT
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Post by lordb on May 17, 2018 20:28:16 GMT
Nzonzi bought the best out of Bojan , the definitely had chemistry Thats because he could play football. Yes indeed however the triumvirate of Nzonzi,Bojan and (surprisingly) Walters really clicked. That's what good sides should be about,players forming partnerships.
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