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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 15:40:14 GMT
Post by crapslinger on Jan 24, 2018 15:40:14 GMT
The motivation has to come from Imbula. Nobody can make him. He's got to make himself. That's really all there is to it. Bojan was good in the false 9 run but hasn't really done much post-injury beyond that. I see no reason whatsoever why Berahino should get a chance when he hasn't, one decent cameo against Arsenal aside, done anything to warrant one. He doesn't look any fitter or any sharper to me. Smudge used the word 'broken' to describe him in is Sentinel piece and that's exactly how he looks, like a man who has lost it. The player he was at West Brom, quick, skillful, incisive, influential, hasn't made the journey to the Potteries. There is no semblance of that player there, and if it was just a question of fitness, we'd have seen at least flashes. Managers can give players the motivation to change themselves. He may knuckle down under a new regime. We don't lose anything by trying, and we stand to gain a lot. Bojan was excellent that season, in the false 9 and as a number 10, its why we gave him a 5 year contract. I think he looked very good against Saints and had a decent showing in tough conditions vs Chelsea too. I think we have seen flashes, he's been unlucky not to get his goal. If he gets a run of 5/6 games and shows nothing, then I'll agree, but until then we have no idea which Berahino we have. He has had a run in the team last season he failed, so now we should give him another run when he isn't fit ?, do you not think for one minute that the problem is with him ? . There is a reason why a succession of managers wont give him a run of games, these people assess players on a daily basis are you telling me you know better than these professionals ? the reason players like Imbula and Berahino are not getting into a poor squad you need to get your head around that if at all possible
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 24, 2018 16:30:06 GMT
He's got ability, but ability without application counts for jack shit. Blimey. Granny & eggs award there.
Hence I'm suggesting that we / Lambo might at least try to find out why he has lost motivation and if we can ever get it back.
And if we think we can, we should employ whatever means necessary to do so, given the stakes and investment.
Sorry but it's a basic point that enough people seem to be wilfully missing. Why do you think we can? Based on what? How many clubs does he need to fail at? He wasn't learning even basic stuff he needed to put right. Sometimes a bad investment is a bad investment and you just have to write it off.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 16:31:01 GMT
Post by baystokie on Jan 24, 2018 16:31:01 GMT
Managers can give players the motivation to change themselves. He may knuckle down under a new regime. We don't lose anything by trying, and we stand to gain a lot. Bojan was excellent that season, in the false 9 and as a number 10, its why we gave him a 5 year contract. I think he looked very good against Saints and had a decent showing in tough conditions vs Chelsea too. I think we have seen flashes, he's been unlucky not to get his goal. If he gets a run of 5/6 games and shows nothing, then I'll agree, but until then we have no idea which Berahino we have. He has had a run in the team last season he failed, so now we should give him another run when he isn't fit ?, do you not think for one minute that the problem is with him ? . There is a reason why a succession of managers wont give him a run of games, these people assess players on a daily basis are you telling me you know better than these professionals ? the reason players like Imbula and Berahino are not getting into a poor squad you need to get your head around that if at all possible Your points are valid UNTIL 'are you telling me that you know better than the professionals'! I thought the majority of posts on this forum were from those who think EXACTLY that! If they didn't think that, posts would be few and far between
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 24, 2018 16:35:22 GMT
He hasn't 'knuckled' down under four managers at his last three clubs. That should tell you where the problem lies. The onus is on him, above any manager, first and foremost. How many games as a number 10 did Bojan have that season where he looked remotely like the flyer he was pre-injury? We gave him a contract because presumably we hadn't lost hope that he could become that player again. I don't see why Berahino should get any sort of run. He doesn't impress when he's given the chance even against the most modest of opposition (I thought against Southampton he was lively but still rarely in good positions, barring the penalty he won, and missed). He isn't as quick or as strong as Diouf, obviously isn't as good at hold up play as Crouch and even Choupo has looked more of a presence when played centrally. Again, there is literally no risk to trying him. There is a huge reward though as he obviously has talent. He did work hard at the start of his time here. Several. The difference being that players around him were good too. We weren't the one man team we were before his injury. Saints away, Swansea away, Swansea at home, Leicester at home, to name a few. He's better at hold up play than Diouf and quicker than Crouch. Choupo has been awful as a striker. If Diouf gets a run, fine, I'm not against that, but people saying Saido is shite when he hasn't had the chance is just weird. No risk? We're in a relegation battle. We need every single point we can get. Sorry but Swansea away, he was good, he won the penalty, in no way was the Bojan of the pre-injury West Ham, Spurs, Everton games. Leicester at home he faded and was blowing out of his arse after an hour after a great start. Berahino isn't better at hold up play than my years-dead goldfish. Choupo hasn't been great as a striker. He's been better than Berahino. And actually scored in the role. Maybe if Berahino looked good when he did get the chance people wouldn't say he was shite (which he frequently has been, even against third and fourth tier sides). He doesn't even have the influence of a Cameron Jerome or a Joselu.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 16:53:46 GMT
Post by forwhatitsworth on Jan 24, 2018 16:53:46 GMT
Sorry Pal we've given your squad number away to someone who actually wants to play for us! Take the hint Who have we given his squad number to? The new left back
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 16:55:57 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 16:55:57 GMT
Again, there is literally no risk to trying him. There is a huge reward though as he obviously has talent. He did work hard at the start of his time here. Several. The difference being that players around him were good too. We weren't the one man team we were before his injury. Saints away, Swansea away, Swansea at home, Leicester at home, to name a few. He's better at hold up play than Diouf and quicker than Crouch. Choupo has been awful as a striker. If Diouf gets a run, fine, I'm not against that, but people saying Saido is shite when he hasn't had the chance is just weird. No risk? We're in a relegation battle. We need every single point we can get. Sorry but Swansea away, he was good, he won the penalty, in no way was the Bojan of the pre-injury West Ham, Spurs, Everton games. Leicester at home he faded and was blowing out of his arse after an hour after a great start. Berahino isn't better at hold up play than my years-dead goldfish. Choupo hasn't been great as a striker. He's been better than Berahino. And actually scored in the role. Maybe if Berahino looked good when he did get the chance people wouldn't say he was shite (which he frequently has been, even against third and fourth tier sides). He doesn't even have the influence of a Cameron Jerome or a Joselu. We do, and if Lambert thinks he'll help us get points with his obvious talent then I've no issue with it. The rest of that i'll have to disagree with you on.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 16:57:30 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 16:57:30 GMT
Managers can give players the motivation to change themselves. He may knuckle down under a new regime. We don't lose anything by trying, and we stand to gain a lot. Bojan was excellent that season, in the false 9 and as a number 10, its why we gave him a 5 year contract. I think he looked very good against Saints and had a decent showing in tough conditions vs Chelsea too. I think we have seen flashes, he's been unlucky not to get his goal. If he gets a run of 5/6 games and shows nothing, then I'll agree, but until then we have no idea which Berahino we have. He has had a run in the team last season he failed, so now we should give him another run when he isn't fit ?, do you not think for one minute that the problem is with him ? . There is a reason why a succession of managers wont give him a run of games, these people assess players on a daily basis are you telling me you know better than these professionals ? the reason players like Imbula and Berahino are not getting into a poor squad you need to get your head around that if at all possible He did yes. Possibly lambert can get him fit. He definitely seemed fitter at the start of this season than last. Of course, the manager is always right, Hughes has never made a mistake with personnel so we should all bow to his divine decisions and never have an opinion. I'm sure you say the same about his decisions to start Wimmer in several games this season.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 24, 2018 17:20:22 GMT
He has had a run in the team last season he failed, so now we should give him another run when he isn't fit ?, do you not think for one minute that the problem is with him ? . There is a reason why a succession of managers wont give him a run of games, these people assess players on a daily basis are you telling me you know better than these professionals ? the reason players like Imbula and Berahino are not getting into a poor squad you need to get your head around that if at all possible He did yes. Possibly lambert can get him fit. He definitely seemed fitter at the start of this season than last. Of course, the manager is always right, Hughes has never made a mistake with personnel so we should all bow to his divine decisions and never have an opinion. I'm sure you say the same about his decisions to start Wimmer in several games this season. My opinion on Wimmer is well documented on here, the fact is his start here as been about as convincing as Berahinos start here, Hughes made many mistakes with personnel especially signing the terrible trio. What worries me with Wimmer and Berahino they appear to be a long way from fit, at this stage in the season is not acceptable even if they are not playing they have a duty to keep themselves fit as professional athletes.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 17:25:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 17:25:29 GMT
He did yes. Possibly lambert can get him fit. He definitely seemed fitter at the start of this season than last. Of course, the manager is always right, Hughes has never made a mistake with personnel so we should all bow to his divine decisions and never have an opinion. I'm sure you say the same about his decisions to start Wimmer in several games this season. My opinion on Wimmer is well documented on here, the fact is his start here as been about as convincing as Berahinos start here, Hughes made many mistakes with personnel especially signing the terrible trio. What worries me with Wimmer and Berahino they appear to be a long way from fit, at this stage in the season is not acceptable even if they are not playing they have a duty to keep themselves fit as professional athletes. So why do you use 'Well there's a reason Hughes doesn't pick him' as an argument when you know full well Hughes is capable of huge mistakes? I think motivation throughout the squad has dropped massively since 2016/17 began, and, rightly or wrongly, a lot of players aren't fit. That's why i'm happy to give all the players a chance if the manager thinks they deserve it. Had Saido played for us for 2/3 years and had a few runs in the side that he'd looked awful in (not just one when he was unfit) then I'd write him off.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 17:27:09 GMT
Post by crapslinger on Jan 24, 2018 17:27:09 GMT
He has had a run in the team last season he failed, so now we should give him another run when he isn't fit ?, do you not think for one minute that the problem is with him ? . There is a reason why a succession of managers wont give him a run of games, these people assess players on a daily basis are you telling me you know better than these professionals ? the reason players like Imbula and Berahino are not getting into a poor squad you need to get your head around that if at all possible Your points are valid UNTIL 'are you telling me that you know better than the professionals'! I thought the majority of posts on this forum were from those who think EXACTLY that! If they didn't think that, posts would be few and far between Indeed they are, however when two or three individual players have proven to everyone that they are not up to the job how can it be reasonable to take the stand point that the deserve another chance ?, Berahino and Imbula have had the opportunity to prove their worth to this club they have consistently failed to do so, one has been fecked off abroad and is failing again the other spends more time making the wrong headlines in the papers than on the pitch, when he was given his chance he has failed miserably to do his job.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 17:30:40 GMT
Post by crapslinger on Jan 24, 2018 17:30:40 GMT
My opinion on Wimmer is well documented on here, the fact is his start here as been about as convincing as Berahinos start here, Hughes made many mistakes with personnel especially signing the terrible trio. What worries me with Wimmer and Berahino they appear to be a long way from fit, at this stage in the season is not acceptable even if they are not playing they have a duty to keep themselves fit as professional athletes. So why do you use 'Well there's a reason Hughes doesn't pick him' as an argument when you know full well Hughes is capable of huge mistakes? I think motivation throughout the squad has dropped massively since 2016/17 began, and, rightly or wrongly, a lot of players aren't fit. That's why i'm happy to give all the players a chance if the manager thinks they deserve it. Had Saido played for us for 2/3 years and had a few runs in the side that he'd looked awful in (not just one when he was unfit) then I'd write him off. It's not just Hughes though is it ? Pulis, Hughes, neddy now Lambert are they all wrong that's a fair old coincidence wouldn't you say ?, by the way Berahino has managed to lose fitness again there appears to be trait developing with him.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 17:42:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 17:42:12 GMT
So why do you use 'Well there's a reason Hughes doesn't pick him' as an argument when you know full well Hughes is capable of huge mistakes? I think motivation throughout the squad has dropped massively since 2016/17 began, and, rightly or wrongly, a lot of players aren't fit. That's why i'm happy to give all the players a chance if the manager thinks they deserve it. Had Saido played for us for 2/3 years and had a few runs in the side that he'd looked awful in (not just one when he was unfit) then I'd write him off. It's not just Hughes though is it ? Pulis, Hughes, neddy now Lambert are they all wrong that's a fair old coincidence wouldn't you say ?, by the way Berahino has managed to lose fitness again there appears to be trait developing with him. Pulis played him. He went off the rails, it happens to kids with money. Eddie and Lambert is two games, where he obviously is unfit. Yes, he clearly has motivational issues. Who's to say a manager like Lambert won't get him fit and motivated and back to his best form? You're writing him off from a 12 months spell where he's either barely been played or been unfit. Add to that you obviously aren't a fan of him personally. If every footballer who had a bad spell and was a bit of a prick (mostly allegedly by the way) was written off there'd be a hell of a lot less professional footballers about. He hasn't scored in 31 games i think. Considering lack of fitness, and only having one proper run in a side in that time, it's really not unsalvageable. He could score a quadruple hat trick in the fa cup final to beat arsenal and you'd still say 'oh well i heard he was actually 5 minutes late to the pre match meal so he can fuck off out of my club'. It's weird.
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 18:07:31 GMT
Post by crapslinger on Jan 24, 2018 18:07:31 GMT
It's not just Hughes though is it ? Pulis, Hughes, neddy now Lambert are they all wrong that's a fair old coincidence wouldn't you say ?, by the way Berahino has managed to lose fitness again there appears to be trait developing with him. Pulis played him. He went off the rails, it happens to kids with money. Eddie and Lambert is two games, where he obviously is unfit. Yes, he clearly has motivational issues. Who's to say a manager like Lambert won't get him fit and motivated and back to his best form? You're writing him off from a 12 months spell where he's either barely been played or been unfit. Add to that you obviously aren't a fan of him personally. If every footballer who had a bad spell and was a bit of a prick (mostly allegedly by the way) was written off there'd be a hell of a lot less professional footballers about. He hasn't scored in 31 games i think. Considering lack of fitness, and only having one proper run in a side in that time, it's really not unsalvageable. He could score a quadruple hat trick in the fa cup final to beat arsenal and you'd still say 'oh well i heard he was actually 5 minutes late to the pre match meal so he can fuck off out of my club'. It's weird. I look forward to him scoring a quadruple hat trick, however he couldn't manage to score one against third and forth tier teams so on that note I am out of this debate, maybe we should revisit this thread when he does score for us le salavager
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 21:10:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 21:10:35 GMT
Pulis played him. He went off the rails, it happens to kids with money. Eddie and Lambert is two games, where he obviously is unfit. Yes, he clearly has motivational issues. Who's to say a manager like Lambert won't get him fit and motivated and back to his best form? You're writing him off from a 12 months spell where he's either barely been played or been unfit. Add to that you obviously aren't a fan of him personally. If every footballer who had a bad spell and was a bit of a prick (mostly allegedly by the way) was written off there'd be a hell of a lot less professional footballers about. He hasn't scored in 31 games i think. Considering lack of fitness, and only having one proper run in a side in that time, it's really not unsalvageable. He could score a quadruple hat trick in the fa cup final to beat arsenal and you'd still say 'oh well i heard he was actually 5 minutes late to the pre match meal so he can fuck off out of my club'. It's weird. I look forward to him scoring a quadruple hat trick, however he couldn't manage to score one against third and forth tier teams so on that note I am out of this debate, maybe we should revisit this thread when he does score for us le salavager Weird hatred of players continues. I'm sure youll be suitably angry if he does score for us
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 21:18:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 24, 2018 21:18:32 GMT
It's not just Hughes though is it ? Pulis, Hughes, neddy now Lambert are they all wrong that's a fair old coincidence wouldn't you say ?, by the way Berahino has managed to lose fitness again there appears to be trait developing with him. Pulis played him. He went off the rails, it happens to kids with money. Eddie and Lambert is two games, where he obviously is unfit. Yes, he clearly has motivational issues. Who's to say a manager like Lambert won't get him fit and motivated and back to his best form? You're writing him off from a 12 months spell where he's either barely been played or been unfit. Add to that you obviously aren't a fan of him personally. If every footballer who had a bad spell and was a bit of a prick (mostly allegedly by the way) was written off there'd be a hell of a lot less professional footballers about. He hasn't scored in 31 games i think. Considering lack of fitness, and only having one proper run in a side in that time, it's really not unsalvageable. He could score a quadruple hat trick in the fa cup final to beat arsenal and you'd still say 'oh well i heard he was actually 5 minutes late to the pre match meal so he can fuck off out of my club'. It's weird. I've no vendetta against Berahino but he is not performing for Stoke. You're making all kinds of excuses for him (and that's your right) but surely the one thing he could do that is within his control is get himself properly fit, yet it appears that he couldn't even be arsed to do that!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 21:24:43 GMT
Pulis played him. He went off the rails, it happens to kids with money. Eddie and Lambert is two games, where he obviously is unfit. Yes, he clearly has motivational issues. Who's to say a manager like Lambert won't get him fit and motivated and back to his best form? You're writing him off from a 12 months spell where he's either barely been played or been unfit. Add to that you obviously aren't a fan of him personally. If every footballer who had a bad spell and was a bit of a prick (mostly allegedly by the way) was written off there'd be a hell of a lot less professional footballers about. He hasn't scored in 31 games i think. Considering lack of fitness, and only having one proper run in a side in that time, it's really not unsalvageable. He could score a quadruple hat trick in the fa cup final to beat arsenal and you'd still say 'oh well i heard he was actually 5 minutes late to the pre match meal so he can fuck off out of my club'. It's weird. I've no vendetta against Berahino but he is not performing for Stoke. You're making all kinds of excuses for him (and that's your right) but surely the one thing he could do that is within his control is get himself properly fit, yet it appears that he couldn't even be arsed to do that! I agree with that completely, but by all accounts (including Lambert) none of the squad are fit! It's a squad-wide thing that people are applying to whichever player they decide to hate. I think in the few games Saido has played in, he's had enough of an impact in a few of them to not be seen as a completely lost cause. Similarly with Imbula, he's shown how good he can be, so why be so against a new manager getting the chance at turning him round?
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 21:35:26 GMT
via mobile
Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 24, 2018 21:35:26 GMT
I've no vendetta against Berahino but he is not performing for Stoke. You're making all kinds of excuses for him (and that's your right) but surely the one thing he could do that is within his control is get himself properly fit, yet it appears that he couldn't even be arsed to do that! I agree with that completely, but by all accounts (including Lambert) none of the squad are fit! It's a squad-wide thing that people are applying to whichever player they decide to hate. I think in the few games Saido has played in, he's had enough of an impact in a few of them to not be seen as a completely lost cause. Similarly with Imbula, he's shown how good he can be, so why be so against a new manager getting the chance at turning him round? Ok but if I was SB and was on a mission to prove myself and get in the team I'd make sure I was the fittest fucker in the squad. Didn't his agent also say that he was a stone overweight (doesn't matter if it was recent or not), that's disgraceful. I just think he's got an inflated opinion of his own self worth and isn't prepared to do the hard work. He looks disinterested
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 21:41:41 GMT
I agree with that completely, but by all accounts (including Lambert) none of the squad are fit! It's a squad-wide thing that people are applying to whichever player they decide to hate. I think in the few games Saido has played in, he's had enough of an impact in a few of them to not be seen as a completely lost cause. Similarly with Imbula, he's shown how good he can be, so why be so against a new manager getting the chance at turning him round? Ok but if I was SB and was on a mission to prove myself and get in the team I'd make sure I was the fittest fucker in the squad. Didn't his agent also say that he was a stone overweight (doesn't matter if it was recent or not), that's disgraceful. I just think he's got an inflated opinion of his own self worth and isn't prepared to do the hard work. He looks disinterested Allegedly he said that, no proof. I think to be honest he was fit and sharp at the start of the season. Not to make excuses but subconsciously getting yourself sharp and then only being started in 3 games all season, one of which the manager uses as a bonus game doesn't do wonders for motivation and confidence. Some players need a kick up the arse, some need an arm around the shoulder. I don't think Hughes has been particularly good at either in the last 2 years.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jan 24, 2018 21:46:26 GMT
Wouldn't there be a clause in SB's contract saying he's got to keep a certain level of fitness. Like passing a bleep test every week?
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 22:17:15 GMT
Post by crapslinger on Jan 24, 2018 22:17:15 GMT
Wouldn't there be a clause in SB's contract saying he's got to keep a certain level of fitness. Like passing a bleep test every week? Maybe that should be a drugs test every week
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Imbula
Jan 24, 2018 22:25:00 GMT
Post by crapslinger on Jan 24, 2018 22:25:00 GMT
I agree with that completely, but by all accounts (including Lambert) none of the squad are fit! It's a squad-wide thing that people are applying to whichever player they decide to hate. I think in the few games Saido has played in, he's had enough of an impact in a few of them to not be seen as a completely lost cause. Similarly with Imbula, he's shown how good he can be, so why be so against a new manager getting the chance at turning him round? Ok but if I was SB and was on a mission to prove myself and get in the team I'd make sure I was the fittest fucker in the squad. Didn't his agent also say that he was a stone overweight (doesn't matter if it was recent or not), that's disgraceful. I just think he's got an inflated opinion of his own self worth and isn't prepared to do the hard work. He looks disinterested You are wasting your time with him Terry, despite all the evidence available including Dean Saunders confirming Berahinos agent admitting he is not fit on national television he continues to defend the indefensible, maybe he has a thing for him can't think of any other rational reason for his blind refusal to see what virtually everyone else can see, Berahino is actually a pretty shit footballer with an even shitter attitude FFS he can't even be arsed to keep himself fit says it all.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jan 25, 2018 0:15:34 GMT
Blimey. Granny & eggs award there.
Hence I'm suggesting that we / Lambo might at least try to find out why he has lost motivation and if we can ever get it back.
And if we think we can, we should employ whatever means necessary to do so, given the stakes and investment.
Sorry but it's a basic point that enough people seem to be wilfully missing. Why do you think we can? Based on what? How many clubs does he need to fail at? He wasn't learning even basic stuff he needed to put right. Sometimes a bad investment is a bad investment and you just have to write it off. Fair do's Toxic.
I'm not missing anything.
Why do I think he can? Because he can do the difficult bits that you probably can't ever coach, so I would think it might be a sight easier to drill into him the more mundane stuff (like running) that you can.
I mean, he can't be content to have all that obvious ability and yet not see that translate into a successful career in the biggest league in the world for the want of a bit of huffin n' puffin.
Bonkers.
Maybe we have bought Europe's biggest dud and Porto (was it?) did see us coming a mile off. But as noted earlier, with that kind of investment we have surely got to throw something at it as a Hail Mary before we give up and lose out.
Somebody call Aaron Rodgers.
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Imbula
Jan 25, 2018 8:25:50 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 25, 2018 8:25:50 GMT
Sorry but it's a basic point that enough people seem to be wilfully missing. Why do you think we can? Based on what? How many clubs does he need to fail at? He wasn't learning even basic stuff he needed to put right. Sometimes a bad investment is a bad investment and you just have to write it off. Fair do's Toxic.
I'm not missing anything.
Why do I think he can? Because he can do the difficult bits that you probably can't ever coach, so I would think it might be a sight easier to drill into him the more mundane stuff (like running) that you can.
I mean, he can't be content to have all that obvious ability and yet not see that translate into a successful career in the biggest league in the world for the want of a bit of huffin n' puffin.
Bonkers.
Maybe we have bought Europe's biggest dud and Porto (was it?) did see us coming a mile off. But as noted earlier, with that kind of investment we have surely got to throw something at it as a Hail Mary before we give up and lose out.
Somebody call Aaron Rodgers.It doesn't work like that though. You can't drill motivation into someone who isn't interested. People are talking about him as if he's a car or a piece of machinery that it's just a question of getting the hang of and mastering. He's an adult human being and is responsible for his own actions. Four different coaches haven't managed to get the 'easier bits' into him. There is literally no basis for saying any manager could at this point. Even Bielsa, who did get a considerable tune out of him, pretty much said he'd peaked and wouldn't be the same anywhere else. You literally can't make someone run. You say he can't be content, yet he hasn't thought to himself it might be an idea to track a runner now and again. Does that not tell you anything? The investment is a write-off. Sometimes it happens. We've just bought poorly. If we'd paid £18.3m for Chris Iwelumo, he'd still be Chris Iwelumo.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 25, 2018 8:27:00 GMT
Ok but if I was SB and was on a mission to prove myself and get in the team I'd make sure I was the fittest fucker in the squad. Didn't his agent also say that he was a stone overweight (doesn't matter if it was recent or not), that's disgraceful. I just think he's got an inflated opinion of his own self worth and isn't prepared to do the hard work. He looks disinterested Allegedly he said that, no proof. I think to be honest he was fit and sharp at the start of the season. Not to make excuses but subconsciously getting yourself sharp and then only being started in 3 games all season, one of which the manager uses as a bonus game doesn't do wonders for motivation and confidence. Some players need a kick up the arse, some need an arm around the shoulder. I don't think Hughes has been particularly good at either in the last 2 years. He is a professional footballer getting paid upwards of 50k a week. There is no excuse whatsoever for not being at a decent level of fitness.
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Imbula
Jan 25, 2018 9:33:54 GMT
Post by realstokebloke on Jan 25, 2018 9:33:54 GMT
Fair do's Toxic.
I'm not missing anything.
Why do I think he can? Because he can do the difficult bits that you probably can't ever coach, so I would think it might be a sight easier to drill into him the more mundane stuff (like running) that you can.
I mean, he can't be content to have all that obvious ability and yet not see that translate into a successful career in the biggest league in the world for the want of a bit of huffin n' puffin.
Bonkers.
Maybe we have bought Europe's biggest dud and Porto (was it?) did see us coming a mile off. But as noted earlier, with that kind of investment we have surely got to throw something at it as a Hail Mary before we give up and lose out.
Somebody call Aaron Rodgers. It doesn't work like that though. You can't drill motivation into someone who isn't interested. People are talking about him as if he's a car or a piece of machinery that it's just a question of getting the hang of and mastering. He's an adult human being and is responsible for his own actions. Four different coaches haven't managed to get the 'easier bits' into him. There is literally no basis for saying any manager could at this point. Even Bielsa, who did get a considerable tune out of him, pretty much said he'd peaked and wouldn't be the same anywhere else. You literally can't make someone run. You say he can't be content, yet he hasn't thought to himself it might be an idea to track a runner now and again. Does that not tell you anything? The investment is a write-off. Sometimes it happens. We've just bought poorly. If we'd paid £18.3m for Chris Iwelumo, he'd still be Chris Iwelumo. Hence I said earlier it might be that we wire the fucker to the mains by way of motivation.
However, if whatever statute prevents us from such a physical inducement, then maybe we should wheel in someone to work on the space between his ears, one on one.
Of course I get that we might have bought a dud - and those in the club will obviously have a more informed opinion on that.
We can only speculate - but, looking in from the outside, it just seems staggering to me that people are so willing to write off that fee and whatever massive wedge that the contract entails.
In short, we disagree which is fair enough.
However, given the investment already and the opportunity of him coming good, I would actually chuck the commensurate time and resource at it with whatever expertise necessary.
If that goes tits up, fair enough. We tried.
Let's face it, we would all love a full functioning GI in our MF right now, we're crying out for and actively looking (I hope) for options there after all.
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Imbula
Jan 25, 2018 10:24:31 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 10:24:31 GMT
Allegedly he said that, no proof. I think to be honest he was fit and sharp at the start of the season. Not to make excuses but subconsciously getting yourself sharp and then only being started in 3 games all season, one of which the manager uses as a bonus game doesn't do wonders for motivation and confidence. Some players need a kick up the arse, some need an arm around the shoulder. I don't think Hughes has been particularly good at either in the last 2 years. He is a professional footballer getting paid upwards of 50k a week. There is no excuse whatsoever for not being at a decent level of fitness. The entire squad isn't at the right level of fitness, as stated by Paul Lambert. No reason to single out Saido except because he's now the designated target for a few.
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Imbula
Jan 25, 2018 10:41:37 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 25, 2018 10:41:37 GMT
He is a professional footballer getting paid upwards of 50k a week. There is no excuse whatsoever for not being at a decent level of fitness. The entire squad isn't at the right level of fitness, as stated by Paul Lambert. No reason to single out Saido except because he's now the designated target for a few. Saido looks miles off the rest of them.
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Imbula
Jan 25, 2018 10:46:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 10:46:12 GMT
The entire squad isn't at the right level of fitness, as stated by Paul Lambert. No reason to single out Saido except because he's now the designated target for a few. Saido looks miles off the rest of them. Based on what? He's barely played? He was one of the better players against Chelsea. One of 11 awful ones vs Coventry.
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Imbula
Jan 25, 2018 10:51:17 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 25, 2018 10:51:17 GMT
Saido looks miles off the rest of them. Based on what? He's barely played? He was one of the better players against Chelsea. One of 11 awful ones vs Coventry. Based on how he's been literally since he's got here. He doesn't look any fitter or any sharper to me, and your original excuse for him was that he got himself fit then he let himself go again because he wasn't playing. If that's the case then that's an abysmal attitude for a highly paid professional sportsman to have.
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Imbula
Jan 25, 2018 10:53:25 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 25, 2018 10:53:25 GMT
It doesn't work like that though. You can't drill motivation into someone who isn't interested. People are talking about him as if he's a car or a piece of machinery that it's just a question of getting the hang of and mastering. He's an adult human being and is responsible for his own actions. Four different coaches haven't managed to get the 'easier bits' into him. There is literally no basis for saying any manager could at this point. Even Bielsa, who did get a considerable tune out of him, pretty much said he'd peaked and wouldn't be the same anywhere else. You literally can't make someone run. You say he can't be content, yet he hasn't thought to himself it might be an idea to track a runner now and again. Does that not tell you anything? The investment is a write-off. Sometimes it happens. We've just bought poorly. If we'd paid £18.3m for Chris Iwelumo, he'd still be Chris Iwelumo. Hence I said earlier it might be that we wire the fucker to the mains by way of motivation.
However, if whatever statute prevents us from such a physical inducement, then maybe we should wheel in someone to work on the space between his ears, one on one.
Of course I get that we might have bought a dud - and those in the club will obviously have a more informed opinion on that.
We can only speculate - but, looking in from the outside, it just seems staggering to me that people are so willing to write off that fee and whatever massive wedge that the contract entails.
In short, we disagree which is fair enough.
However, given the investment already and the opportunity of him coming good, I would actually chuck the commensurate time and resource at it with whatever expertise necessary.
If that goes tits up, fair enough. We tried.
Let's face it, we would all love a full functioning GI in our MF right now, we're crying out for and actively looking (I hope) for options there after all.
You have to write it off sometimes. You can only go on the evidence. What drives me up the fucking wall is this idea that it's somebody else's responsibility to get a grown man on a hefty contract to do a bit of running and figure out how to use his right foot rather than the man himself.
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