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Post by wuzza on Jan 14, 2018 10:44:03 GMT
We need a manager that keeps us up and therefore keeps giving us the luxory of other options in the future. Tony Pulis was a magnificent Manager for this club when we needed it most ( conveniently forgotten as per normal) and if we can get someone to produce the same results as he did we should be dancing in the streets considering the mess that currently exists. This is all about securing the short / medium term future of the club and we really shouldn’t be fretting about the ‘style’ we win games with as long as we win the games. (Ironically there is little to say that Flores actually plays a vastly expansive game either but that’s another point largely lost amid the general angst) My entire point was that I had not conveniently forgotten the Tony Pulis years. I was there, I went to the games, I understood what we were doing and why it was effective. I also saw other teams come up and survive and I very much remember thinking why can we not not play like that. There is a significant body of supporters who automatically assume that the only way to survive is to play like a Tony Pulis/Martin O’Neill side. I challenge that assumption. For example, look how West Ham have recovered under Moyes. Of course they are more defensive, but they are not a Neanderthal team like we were under Pulis. West Ham have organised themselves at the back better and play an entirely more disciplined game (Don Hutchinson was talking about the change in training on 5 Live at the weekend) and then have got Lanzini and Arnie providing the spark up front. That’s entirely the sort of approach the like of MON would take and would be a great example to follow (although I’m sure Moyes would have been met with just as much despondency if he had been appointed here). What we need is hard work and motivation and unity. Not a wringing of hands about ‘what might have been’ , much of which is pie in the sky anyway - in reality Flores is probably just as much a pragmatist as the next Manager. MON is not a miracle worker and it might not work anyway but in our position it is a question of playing the percentages and putting everything else on the back burner.
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Post by Dallas Cowboy on Jan 14, 2018 10:46:53 GMT
Employing O'Neill and Keane would be a massive mistake. He perhaps would be able to organise us defensively because all he has known at Ireland is being the underdogs and the metallity of being underdogs. He and his regime are from another generation that doesn't belong in the modern game. Ever likely Pejic was extolling the virtues of Keane! They are both from the same ilk of ruling by fear. Another prehistoric idea that belongs in the arc. I think you have gone off on a tangent there.
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Post by lordb on Jan 14, 2018 10:53:22 GMT
I cannot really get excited about the prospect of MON as manager. Five years after Pulis left the club we still struggle shake off that ‘long ball, anti-football’ reputation. And can you remember how dispiriting it was to watch Pulis’s version of football: week after week of shite; even when we won it felt like we had lost. This isn’t a defence of Hughes, he had to go, but I would say that no matter how bad it got under Hughes this season, it really was never as bad as those days with Pulis because there was always the knowledge that ultimately we wanted to be expansive and entertaining. Over the last five seaons, it felt like we had turned a corner and were developing a reputation for entertainment and flair. Certainly before this season, particularly during Hughes first two and a half seasons, there was some some wonderful football. We need a new manager, not a new version of Tony Pulis. We aren't getting one! Pulis has achieved very little compared to O'Neill, O'Neill's Leicester,Villa and Celtic sides did not play Pulisball. We do need to get organized, O'Neill will do that. QSF & Rowett are also defence first managers. Football isn't divided between Pulis types and Guardiola types.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 10:59:58 GMT
i think right now we need to survive and worry about how we play in May It's pragmatism versus romanticism Hopefully he'll keep us up Happy for him to be here till the summer but you just know he'll be offered the role full-time
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Post by lordb on Jan 14, 2018 11:01:25 GMT
i think right now we need to survive and worry about how we play in May It's pragmatism versus romanticism Hopefully he'll keep us up Happy for him to be here till the summer but you just know he'll be offered the role full-time Is it though? QSF approach not that different
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 11:02:52 GMT
It's pragmatism versus romanticism Hopefully he'll keep us up Happy for him to be here till the summer but you just know he'll be offered the role full-time Is it though? QSF approach not that different I'm happy to defer to your greater knowledge mate. It all just feels meh I'm very happy for MON to prove otherwise 👍
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Post by pyrus on Jan 14, 2018 11:17:47 GMT
I cannot really get excited about the prospect of MON as manager. Five years after Pulis left the club we still struggle shake off that ‘long ball, anti-football’ reputation. And can you remember how dispiriting it was to watch Pulis’s version of football: week after week of shite; even when we won it felt like we had lost. This isn’t a defence of Hughes, he had to go, but I would say that no matter how bad it got under Hughes this season, it really was never as bad as those days with Pulis because there was always the knowledge that ultimately we wanted to be expansive and entertaining. Over the last five seaons, it felt like we had turned a corner and were developing a reputation for entertainment and flair. Certainly before this season, particularly during Hughes first two and a half seasons, there was some some wonderful football. We need a new manager, not a new version of Tony Pulis. We aren't getting one! Pulis has achieved very little compared to O'Neill, O'Neill's Leicester,Villa and Celtic sides did not play Pulisball. We do need to get organized, O'Neill will do that. QSF & Rowett are also defence first managers. Football isn't divided between Pulis types and Guardiola types. It’s an interesting debate and it will be what it will be - our speculation won’t change the club’s choice of manager one way or another. I was more circumspect when O’Neill’s name was first mentioned, it was an obvious name. And if he comes, I hope you are right and we start to be organised without it being like watching a pile of iron rusting. However, I am less optimistic than you, I’m afraid. It was triggered by talking to an Irish guy, he’s a teacher at my son’s school - a level headed guy, not a nob; he said that he had never enjoyed watching football less than having to watch Ireland under O’Neill and Keane. It brought the Pulis years back to mind. I don’t want Stoke to get relegated, but I won’t be watching it anymore if we go back to being like that, constantly living in hope over expectation that we were going to play well, with a bit of panache and style.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 14, 2018 11:21:31 GMT
I think the thread title sums up the situation perfectly. Even the ultra positive stance on the situation is that our new manager 'is not so bad'.
Not so friggin bad.
We're an absolute shambles.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 14, 2018 11:39:30 GMT
I think the thread title sums up the situation perfectly. Even the ultra positive stance on the situation is that our new manager 'is not so bad'. Not so friggin bad. We're an absolute shambles. He hasn't said yes yet has he? Things could get a whole lot more shambolic yet mate.
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Post by johnmarshcardschool on Jan 14, 2018 11:59:04 GMT
I doubt anyone could consider MON exciting or what they really wanted but we are where we are and considering what we need right now he's about the best option who may actually come we can discuss all the exciting candidates who we could offer the job too but could TS then sell the club convincingly, it seems we know the answer. the truth is if we want to attract more exciting managers we first have to survive and then shake things up behind the scenes we need a clean sweep of those selling the club and hopefully the new salesman is nothing like TS. MON is the quick fix we need right now which yes is depressing but it could be much worse there are some truly depressing options out there who don't have MON's ability or credentials yet we could end up with them, so happy I am not but it could actually get worse this is Stoke. Thank you for the well thought-out posts on MON, Ted. I was so up for the QSF appointment and the brave new world that it suggested it would bring, I have been on a bit of a downer since his rejection and the impending doom of MON coming. Yours is the first thing that I have read that puts considered reasoning into what would be good about him joining us and helping us out. There's still lots of ifs, buts and maybes, (that we would have with any new manager, one way or another), but if MON could work as a shorter-term (2 year?) fix to stabilise a ship that had been adrift and taking on waterer for the last 18-24 months, then that could make the club a very attractive project for a forward thinking manager to take on to the promised lands. I'm feeling a little better now, ta.
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Post by professorplump on Jan 14, 2018 12:36:19 GMT
We aren't getting one! Pulis has achieved very little compared to O'Neill, O'Neill's Leicester,Villa and Celtic sides did not play Pulisball. We do need to get organized, O'Neill will do that. QSF & Rowett are also defence first managers. Football isn't divided between Pulis types and Guardiola types. It’s an interesting debate and it will be what it will be - our speculation won’t change the club’s choice of manager one way or another. I was more circumspect when O’Neill’s name was first mentioned, it was an obvious name. And if he comes, I hope you are right and we start to be organised without it being like watching a pile of iron rusting. However, I am less optimistic than you, I’m afraid. It was triggered by talking to an Irish guy, he’s a teacher at my son’s school - a level headed guy, not a nob; he said that he had never enjoyed watching football less than having to watch Ireland under O’Neill and Keane. It brought the Pulis years back to mind. I don’t want Stoke to get relegated, but I won’t be watching it anymore if we go back to being like that, constantly living in hope over expectation that we were going to play well, with a bit of panache and style. You can't compare international management with club management. At Ireland MON has a restricted choice of players and can't sign anyone so has to set his team up to fit the players at his disposal. At Stoke he could bring players in who are capable of playing a more skilful and expansive game and would already have the likes of Shaqiri and Choupo.
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Post by chayzenbacon on Jan 14, 2018 13:27:15 GMT
Do we have options? Right now it's looking like shit or bust.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 13:38:39 GMT
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Post by mosquito on Jan 14, 2018 13:46:03 GMT
Super John is a Stokie
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Post by stevoyork on Jan 14, 2018 13:51:40 GMT
Jonathan 'boyband' Walters
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Post by kustokie on Jan 14, 2018 14:43:41 GMT
What options? There are no options left: MON knows this and can name his take-it-or-leave price. We are not in a very strong negotiating poisition.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 14:51:44 GMT
Small time thinking by the club and just fucking mentalists with some of the names being touted on here.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 14, 2018 14:54:04 GMT
If I was MON I'd be tempted to sign a new contract and stay where I was for another 5 years in that very very cushy job!
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Jan 14, 2018 15:02:22 GMT
Well I wanted O'Neil (with Keane) all along, so blame me if it goes wrong.
I can't believe people can slate him, just have a look at what Hodgson has done, and O'Neil has acheived more than Hodgson.
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Post by loosestools on Jan 14, 2018 16:18:43 GMT
Ted, just read it, great post.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 16:23:26 GMT
Wouldn’t have been my first choice but if he does turn up he will get my backing. Things can’t possibly get any worse...can they ?
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billc
Youth Player
Posts: 490
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Post by billc on Jan 14, 2018 16:37:54 GMT
Thanks Ted for the reassuring post
Like many I was intrigued by the prospect of QSF coming to Stoke and disappointed when the move did not happen
If MON is going to be the manager then he gets my unwavering support. It is a time for all associated with the Potters to roll their sleeves up and set to the task of seeing Stoke's Premier League status is maintained.
Incidentally to those who criticize MON for his age- 65. It is worth noting that Churchill was 65 in 1940 and I have no doubt that MON will have equal energy without the need to resort to large cigars and copious amounts of brandy.
Time to draw on the " Dunkirk spirit "
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jan 14, 2018 17:16:04 GMT
Thanks Ted for the reassuring post Like many I was intrigued by the prospect of QSF coming to Stoke and disappointed when the move did not happen If MON is going to be the manager then he gets my unwavering support. It is a time for all associated with the Potters to roll their sleeves up and set to the task of seeing Stoke's Premier League status is maintained. Incidentally to those who criticize MON for his age- 65. It is worth noting that Churchill was 65 in 1940 and I have no doubt that MON will have equal energy without the need to resort to large cigars and copious amounts of brandy. Time to draw on the " Dunkirk spirit " 'Old' 'Woy' Hodgdon has been hung drawn & quartered on this board by all the 'experts'. Not doing so badly at Palace is he?
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 14, 2018 17:41:23 GMT
Difficult yo be inspired by the least worse option
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Post by stokeoptimist on Jan 14, 2018 18:15:48 GMT
Employing O'Neill and Keane would be a massive mistake. He perhaps would be able to organise us defensively because all he has known at Ireland is being the underdogs and the metallity of being underdogs. He and his regime are from another generation that doesn't belong in the modern game. Ever likely Pejic was extolling the virtues of Keane! They are both from the same ilk of ruling by fear. Another prehistoric idea that belongs in the arc. Well if some of the shit that gets posted on here is indicative of the modern fans knowledge of the game then give me a dinosaur any day of the week.
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