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Post by numpty40 on Jan 2, 2018 16:19:40 GMT
Just to be clear I don't think he is, I just think that we are no longer able or willing to operate like a premier league club. It is all suddenly become too expensive and too costly to compete and I don't think the board or owners are willing to invest enough to keep us in the Premier League. On that basis and without guarantees of substantial backing, who other than somebody who sees it as an opportunity to make their name on a gamble (i.e. do enough with the current squad and limited funds for new additions) is going to take such a poisoned chalice? If the backing is there (for the manager salary and funds to spend), then he should have gone months ago.. Painfully true that mate. We're trying to do it on the cheap dressed up as 'self sufficient'. If it was always about self sufficiency we wouldn't be paying millions of pounds on season long loans.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jan 2, 2018 16:23:54 GMT
If there is one single sentence uttered from the mouth of Leslie Mark Hughes as manager of Stoke City Football Club which illustrates all that is wrong with his approach to managing "our" club and which should signal the end of his tenure, it is this one.
Arrogance and incompetence are uneasy bedfellows.
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Post by skip on Jan 2, 2018 16:25:49 GMT
I was happy for Hughes to prove me wrong and turn things around but "who else is going to do it" is his "smell my cheese" moment, up there with Pulis' steak and chips. A PR disaster.
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Post by flea79 on Jan 2, 2018 16:31:27 GMT
I would give the hippo a few games with Nello as his no 2
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Post by raythesailor on Jan 2, 2018 16:35:38 GMT
I used to manage a Sunday Morning pub team so I know what I am talking about !
I would get a big six foot plus centre foreward and keep belting the ball into him.
Oh hang on a miniute . 🤓
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Post by itsallgonepetetone on Jan 2, 2018 16:36:17 GMT
The implication of “who else” by Hughes is that he thinks he is actually doing the job to a standard that is either reasonable or acceptable. This is where is delusion fails him.
I’m still of the belief that he isn’t responsible for our recruitment philosophy and success and failures. He’ll be given a list of options which he will pick from, and that doesn’t guarantee he gets what wants. He is effectively getting Hobson’s choice.
However, what is unacceptable and grossly negligent is deliberately playing against your own strengths and sabotaging your own potential. Even with how shit we have been, we should have acquired and are capable of acquiring more points. It’s like he wants to be sacked, almost baiting the club to do it.
He would be better to concentrate on managing the team to better results, and slagging the board off at every available opportunity. The banners would change to Coates Out very quickly. Why does he want to pick a fight with the fans and media and make a clown of himself is beyond me?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 16:41:07 GMT
Has anyone got a link to the interview please?
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jan 2, 2018 16:42:00 GMT
"Do it" Hughes is certainly not doing it or doing anything for that matter. There are many people that can give it a better go than him.
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Post by salopian on Jan 2, 2018 16:46:08 GMT
Just to be clear I don't think he is, I just think that we are no longer able or willing to operate like a premier league club. It is all suddenly become too expensive and too costly to compete and I don't think the board or owners are willing to invest enough to keep us in the Premier League. On that basis and without guarantees of substantial backing, who other than somebody who sees it as an opportunity to make their name on a gamble (i.e. do enough with the current squad and limited funds for new additions) is going to take such a poisoned chalice? If the backing is there (for the manager salary and funds to spend), then he should have gone months ago.. I would tend to agree... Hughes certainly has many many faults but my gut feeling is this, we need investment for some time with an ageing team but they are reluctant to put in but don't want to allow outward investment either. The bigger signings have been a flop but always come across as desperate late deals where we pay over the odds as we are found wanting and have little idea what we are signing, the baggage or their true worth!!
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Post by smallthorner on Jan 2, 2018 16:56:01 GMT
Just to be clear I don't think he is, I just think that we are no longer able or willing to operate like a premier league club. It is all suddenly become too expensive and too costly to compete and I don't think the board or owners are willing to invest enough to keep us in the Premier League. On that basis and without guarantees of substantial backing, who other than somebody who sees it as an opportunity to make their name on a gamble (i.e. do enough with the current squad and limited funds for new additions) is going to take such a poisoned chalice? If the backing is there (for the manager salary and funds to spend), then he should have gone months ago.. Are these your own thoughts or have you some inside knowledge.? Not being funny .. just asking. You've mentioned a couple of times about him being low paid. Again, is this a fact or just an assumption.
Interesting theory. And pretty scary actually.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 2, 2018 17:03:43 GMT
But they're millions of threads with millions of names of people that others want in....he isn't asking that is he? He's asking how many of those names would agree to come here with a relatively low wage for the level we're at and a relatively low warchest for the level we're at, and risk their reputation? It's a perfectly valid question...who would want to take us on exactly? Hughes came as we were basically a chance for him to revive his managerial career at this level, none of the other names mentioned really need that. Rafa until last night was doing worse than us but will always be wanted amd in demand because of past achievements, Dyche has already proved himself and is highly rated etc etc. We're basically going to have to make do with who we can get because there aren't really any big pulls or incentives on offer to attract anyone half decent with any kind of experience at this level It may be a perfectly valid question but it's also completely unanswerable, the only people in the world that know whether a manager would come here or not is up to that individual manager themselves. We can speculate as much as we want anout the reasons why Mr X would want to come here or not but until the board ask, they will.never know and we will never know. Erring on the side of sticking with Hughes because you can't second guess a stranger's thoughts about coming here is not a valid reasonto stick with him. No-one's saying we should stick with him though mate.....first line of his post he said "playing Devil's advocate" i.e. the quote in the OP from Hughes is a perfectly valid question as there aren't many incentives to drag someone away from something to come and help us out. I don't see anyone on the board really at all advocating that we stick with him....but if the board can't find anyone that WOULD come here, then sacking him isn't an option. It was an unwise statement from Hughes given the situation he's in, but he's basically just saying the same as most on here have for weeks now, in that the board want Premiership standard yet don't seem to be willing to pay for it and want it all done on the cheap. People on here notice it and they get thumbs up left, right and centre, but Hughes says it and it's just another reason to sack him...for agreeing with us??? That doesn't excuse Hughes from blame or responsibility at all (before anyone thinks i'm standing up for him) as he himself proved it for 2 and half years that although it's rare, it CAN be done....but you can't expect or rely upon any manager to keep that up year after year after year. Any good, experienced managers who can deliver will expect a decent wage to reflect that, and a decent amount to spend every window for upgrades rather than being told to choose from the loan market, unheard of inexperienced kids and mid 30s players who have just come back from lengthy injuries or have spent 2 years warming someone else's bench. You're not going to get talented managers in if you're asking them to deliver on a budget, they just won't come as it's just too big a risk to their reputation. At the end of the day, even our current manager was a "Dog's home" buy as it were, as he had 1 last shot to get himself back some credit at this level. Do we want to keep depending on not just dog's home buys on the pitch but off it as well? How long is that sustainable for until it all comes crashing down? HE'S trying to use it as an excuse to save himself which is daft. It may well not do that and i hope it doesn't, but it (the board's insistence of wanting champagne quality from lemonade pockets) is most certainly a question that HAS to be asked, answered and resolved, otherwise them bringing in anyone to replace Hughes is simply fudging the real issue and we'll back debating the same thing again in a few months. The board needs to move with the times and accept that during the 10 years we've been up, the financial investment needed to stay up has increased (as have the rewards for that success) and we're still thinking it's 2008 and that we should just be thrilled to be here, and while everyone else is buying quality from the big labels, we should just be happy to dig around in the wheelie bins at the back and see what we can get for as little as we can. Our regression is something that many higher up than Hughes are just as responsible for as he is. The issue isn't the actual question Hughes is asking for me (it's valid and it's something i certainly hope the board hear and take on board, or we'll be looking at some bloke from League 2 because we can't get anyone else in), the real problem for me is that Hughes has basically just publicly highlighted what a fucking nightmare job whoever we try to get in has actually got on their hands, not just to improve the players we have already, but also to upgrade them by only being allowed to use the bargain basement reduced basket. If people genuinely think that just replacing Hughes will sort our issues then they're very naive! A new man may keep us up, but unless the board/the finance boys/the transfer teams etc all get their act together, then the new manager will be facing exactly the same pressure in a year or two. It needs a clear message that significant investment WILL be made available to the right candidate or no-one will even fucking turn up for an interview, and it also needs the board to take on board what Hughes has said and bloody well sort out the team that are supposed to be supporting the manager by allowing the funds to be there when needed....love him or hate him, he'll be the last person to have been in that job and will be in a better position than anyone to be telling the board what changes need to be made to allow his successor a chance. They ignore this "feedback" from him at their own peril (and unfortunately the peril of our Premiership survival)
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Post by rawli on Jan 2, 2018 17:09:42 GMT
Perhaps he's trying to get sacked. Don't think he's got the energy or desire to face a relegation battle.
We are going the way of Villa and Sunderland - arrogantly believing we won't be one of the 3 worst teams so we can get away with it. The lack of urgency is mindblowing - the board is as slow as the team. If they are going to sack him then they need to get on with it. If they are keeping him then they need to give him the cash to strengthen. No point keeping him and hoping that it will all come good.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 2, 2018 17:23:37 GMT
I'm with the poster further up (and a point I've made on the Charlie Adam thread)
This "who else" comment is a direct challenge to the owner.
ie - "yes there are others who will do it - but if you think you can get them on my salary, with my budget and with the constraints I have to work under with those fuckwits Cartwright and Scholes - then good luck with that one Old Man".
BTW I'm not defending him - but I do think he is a symptom of our malaise - not the root cause.
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wapiti
Youth Player
Posts: 397
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Post by wapiti on Jan 2, 2018 17:37:45 GMT
Following Stoke City's third 9th place finish in a row, Hughes was asked if he was disappointed in their season. This was the season that Leicester won the PL, the big boys were all a bit off, so it was all there to play for and Stoke pissed away several/many available points. Hughes response was to point to that string of three 9th place finishes as proof that the team and he himself were doing a great job. And it was, except for the fact that there was opportunity there to go higher (as Leicester did). His response was an affirmation of mediocrity......he didn't acknowledge that their were higher positions on the league table to be achieved, he just went straight to what had been achieved and called it good. Lost points, bad decisions......no worries.
This is Hughes basic survival psychology.....he will defend his accomplishments, highlighting the good and ignoring the bad, and attempt to portray that as a sign that all is as it should be. That was just fine when the team ended up in 9th place, but due to his acceptance of mediocrity it has declined and now it has one boot in the relegation zone. Ta-ta Mark, time for you to go and if you don't go, Stoke will go.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 2, 2018 17:40:59 GMT
Following Stoke City's third 9th place finish in a row, Hughes was asked if he was disappointed in their season. This was the season that Leicester won the PL, the big boys were all a bit off, so it was all there to play for and Stoke pissed away several/many available points. Hughes response was to point to that string of three 9th place finishes as proof that the team and he himself were doing a great job. And it was, except for the fact that there was opportunity there to go higher (as Leicester did). His response was an affirmation of mediocrity......he didn't acknowledge that their were higher positions on the league table to be achieved, he just went straight to what had been achieved and called it good. Lost points, bad decisions......no worries. This is Hughes basic survival psychology.....he will defend his accomplishments, highlighting the good and ignoring the bad, and attempt to portray that as a sign that all is as it should be. That was just fine when the team ended up in 9th place, but due to his acceptance of mediocrity it has declined and now it has one boot in the relegation zone. Ta-ta Mark, time for you to go and if you don't go, Stoke will go. The club would be happy with that (9th every time)!
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Post by kustokie on Jan 2, 2018 17:41:29 GMT
Has anyone got a link to the interview please? Google or BBC website. . It’s not complicate.
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 2, 2018 17:41:42 GMT
It may be a perfectly valid question but it's also completely unanswerable, the only people in the world that know whether a manager would come here or not is up to that individual manager themselves. We can speculate as much as we want anout the reasons why Mr X would want to come here or not but until the board ask, they will.never know and we will never know. Erring on the side of sticking with Hughes because you can't second guess a stranger's thoughts about coming here is not a valid reasonto stick with him. No-one's saying we should stick with him though mate.....first line of his post he said "playing Devil's advocate" i.e. the quote in the OP from Hughes is a perfectly valid question as there aren't many incentives to drag someone away from something to come and help us out. I don't see anyone on the board really at all advocating that we stick with him....but if the board can't find anyone that WOULD come here, then sacking him isn't an option. It was an unwise statement from Hughes given the situation he's in, but he's basically just saying the same as most on here have for weeks now, in that the board want Premiership standard yet don't seem to be willing to pay for it and want it all done on the cheap. People on here notice it and they get thumbs up left, right and centre, but Hughes says it and it's just another reason to sack him...for agreeing with us??? That doesn't excuse Hughes from blame or responsibility at all (before anyone thinks i'm standing up for him) as he himself proved it for 2 and half years that although it's rare, it CAN be done....but you can't expect or rely upon any manager to keep that up year after year after year. Any good, experienced managers who can deliver will expect a decent wage to reflect that, and a decent amount to spend every window for upgrades rather than being told to choose from the loan market, unheard of inexperienced kids and mid 30s players who have just come back from lengthy injuries or have spent 2 years warming someone else's bench. You're not going to get talented managers in if you're asking them to deliver on a budget, they just won't come as it's just too big a risk to their reputation. At the end of the day, even our current manager was a "Dog's home" buy as it were, as he had 1 last shot to get himself back some credit at this level. Do we want to keep depending on not just dog's home buys on the pitch but off it as well? How long is that sustainable for until it all comes crashing down? HE'S trying to use it as an excuse to save himself which is daft. It may well not do that and i hope it doesn't, but it (the board's insistence of wanting champagne quality from lemonade pockets) is most certainly a question that HAS to be asked, answered and resolved, otherwise them bringing in anyone to replace Hughes is simply fudging the real issue and we'll back debating the same thing again in a few months. The board needs to move with the times and accept that during the 10 years we've been up, the financial investment needed to stay up has increased (as have the rewards for that success) and we're still thinking it's 2008 and that we should just be thrilled to be here, and while everyone else is buying quality from the big labels, we should just be happy to dig around in the wheelie bins at the back and see what we can get for as little as we can. Our regression is something that many higher up than Hughes are just as responsible for as he is. The issue isn't the actual question Hughes is asking for me (it's valid and it's something i certainly hope the board hear and take on board, or we'll be looking at some bloke from League 2 because we can't get anyone else in), the real problem for me is that Hughes has basically just publicly highlighted what a fucking nightmare job whoever we try to get in has actually got on their hands, not just to improve the players we have already, but also to upgrade them by only being allowed to use the bargain basement reduced basket. If people genuinely think that just replacing Hughes will sort our issues then they're very naive! A new man may keep us up, but unless the board/the finance boys/the transfer teams etc all get their act together, then the new manager will be facing exactly the same pressure in a year or two. It needs a clear message that significant investment WILL be made available to the right candidate or no-one will even fucking turn up for an interview, and it also needs the board to take on board what Hughes has said and bloody well sort out the team that are supposed to be supporting the manager by allowing the funds to be there when needed....love him or hate him, he'll be the last person to have been in that job and will be in a better position than anyone to be telling the board what changes need to be made to allow his successor a chance. They ignore this "feedback" from him at their own peril (and unfortunately the peril of our Premiership survival) It took some reading but I agree
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 2, 2018 17:42:33 GMT
Perhaps he's trying to get sacked. Don't think he's got the energy or desire to face a relegation battle. We are going the way of Villa and Sunderland - arrogantly believing we won't be one of the 3 worst teams so we can get away with it. The lack of urgency is mindblowing - the board is as slow as the team. If they are going to sack him then they need to get on with it. If they are keeping him then they need to give him the cash to strengthen. No point keeping him and hoping that it will all come good. He won't be the first manager to do that this season....
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Post by kustokie on Jan 2, 2018 17:45:02 GMT
It is an unfortunate fact of life that it possible to become irrelevant in any profession. The faster the profession evolves the easier it becomes to be a yesterday man (or woman). Hughes reached that point a couple of years ago. He needs to finds something new to do that he will find more satisfying. It comes to us all.
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Post by Boothen on Jan 2, 2018 17:47:16 GMT
I'd do it, and I'd be happy to do it for £5k per week (net).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 17:53:15 GMT
Has anyone got a link to the interview please? Google or BBC website. . It’s not complicate. Neither is a spell checker.
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Post by nutterpotter on Jan 2, 2018 17:55:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 17:55:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 19:26:38 GMT
Well I'm out of work so I'm up for it and for £300pw but max 10hrs a week.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 2, 2018 19:29:11 GMT
It is an unfortunate fact of life that it possible to become irrelevant in any profession. The faster the profession evolves the easier it becomes to be a yesterday man (or woman). Hughes reached that point a couple of years ago. He needs to finds something new to do that he will find more satisfying. It comes to us all. He should try the hospital I hear they are looking at a replacement for anaesthetic.
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Post by charlesjefferson on Jan 2, 2018 19:42:57 GMT
I was happy for Hughes to prove me wrong and turn things around but "who else is going to do it" is his "smell my cheese" moment, up there with Pulis' steak and chips. A PR disaster. Hughes: Here’s to our future relationship at Stoke City. Coates: I don’t think you should see your future just at the Stoke, Sparky. I just think it’s time for you to consider moving on to new pastures. Hughes: Have I got the rest of the season? Coates: There’s so many opportunities… Hughes: Let me rephrase that. Can I… No, actually I’ll just repeat the question. Have I got the rest of the season? Coates: No Hughes: Thank you. That’s all I wanted to know.... Coates: There's no future for you here. And I’ve watched all the games, I’ve watched them all, I've listened to all your ideas and I haven’t liked a single one of them. Hughes: Peter I’ve, I’ve… Look I’ve just bought a house. It’s like… it’s got a Buck Rogers toilet. One yank, all gone! Coates: We don’t owe you a living. You are someone who has a proven track record for making mostly bad managerial decisions. Hughes: That’s bollocks, but go on. Coates: It’s not bollocks. Your teams performances were appalling. The season started badly, it got worse… Hughes [Mimicking Peter Coates]: “It started badly and got worse. Ohh, your teams, your teams” Coates: Now you’re making a fool of yourself. Hughes: Whoooo, whoooo, who do you think you are? Coates: Well unfortunately for you, I am the Chairman of Stoke City Football Club. Hughes: Oooh, let’s forget about all this! Do you want some cheese? Coates: No thank you. Hughes: It’s quite nice. Oh, it smells. Do you want to smell it? Coates: No thank you. Hughes: Smell the cheese. Coates: No, I don’t want to smell the cheese. Hughes: Smell my cheese! Coates: Mark, please! Hughes: Smell my cheese you mother! [Running through the restaurant] I’ve got cheese! This is cheese! Hughes leaves the stadium, heads back to his car: Hughes: Bloody Stoke City! [Hughes notices people from the club sitting outside] What are you sitting around for? Haven’t you got jobs to go to? No, you’re all on the Premier League gravy train. Wish I was. Hughes: [To Mark Bowen] Take this cheese. Bowen: How did it go? Hughes: I’ve been bad, Mark. Bowen: Oh! It’s smelly. Hughes: It’s got walnuts in. Let’s go!
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Jan 2, 2018 20:13:37 GMT
“But I only had 4 fit defenders”... sob
So who loaned out Muniesa? So who sold Bardsley?
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Post by generationex on Jan 2, 2018 20:25:00 GMT
He may as well of said “Pulis has gone Borough. So what you gonna do about me now dickheads?”
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 22:24:41 GMT
He ought to be sacked for saying that, it's arrogant and it's like saying he is bigger than the club and the best we can get. His career was down the toilet until he came here, it is much clearer as to why we are struggling now. If his ego is this big in the dressing room then players will obviously turn on him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 22:35:36 GMT
Could well be the petard he hangs himself from He implies that no other manager would want to work under the restrictions he is placed - Not going to go down too well that I was talking to a mate earlier and we were discussing the fall-out that would arise if Hughes is sacked, and then goes on record to say that his hands were tied, none of the signings were his own, etc etc, in other words implicating others around him such as the Chief Exec and Recruitment team. He kind of did the same after QPR. I'd heard (reliably) that Hughes wanted a particular player a few windows back, but was refused on the basis of wages (£20k per week too much). That same player is now a top performer in the PL. We bought Imbula during the same window* Imagine if he was told 'no' to Kante (as an example), so we bought Imbula? * I'm NITK.
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