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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 16, 2017 22:02:22 GMT
He needs a run of games alongside a partner to try and re discover his early WBA form,as for Wimmer I wouldn’t play him in the fuckin lads and dads He hasn’t looked at any stage like he’s capable of doing that though and good players usually show at least glimpses of something. We can’t carry passengers and that’s what he’s been. He’s been treated dreadfully imo since being here and hung out to dry
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Post by adi on Dec 16, 2017 22:04:15 GMT
We lost the last two goals because we were chasing the game due to a bad decision for their penalty. So I think it's unfair to blame Tymon in particular. We deserved fuck all
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Post by numpty40 on Dec 16, 2017 22:05:07 GMT
Thought he was a breath of fresh air, put in two or three decent balls and I don't know what planet some people on here are on but we were chasing the game and having to take risks at the back. All in all a v good cameo He put more crosses into the box in his short time on the pitch than Pieters and Sobhi combined. He looked a little lightweight but it was actually quite nice to see a Stoke player on the pitch with more pace than the fourth official.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 16, 2017 22:09:19 GMT
We chased him for three windows and bid £20m for him at one point. Do you really think the manager of the club wouldn’t want a player we’d go to those lengths for? He’s made over 30 appearances for the club and been here a year. What is he good at? He’s not quick. He’s not physical. He’s not good on the ball. He’s not dangerous. What influence does he have? Fletcher’s pass completion was bettered by only two Stoke players and when he went off we lost our shape completely. Fletcher was wank again but should have been replaced by Affelay not hollywood Charlie. How is Berahino supposed to even look dangerous if all we do is hoof? However we play, whoever we play, whenever we play, he hasn’t looked dangerous. Diouf is limited but he gets involved in the game, he competes, he knocks defenders about, he gets into useful positions. Berahino looks shot. I don’t see anything useful he contributes. What are his qualities? I don’t even see him making these supposed ‘good runs’ he makes?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 16, 2017 22:09:43 GMT
The cheers that greeted those changes were seriously, seriously weird. Berahino got a hero’s welcome despite having done absolutely shit all for a year. Tymon is a kid and is light years from being ready. Charlie Adam is Charlie Adam. The crowd acted like Jesus was riding in on a donkey. In reality the changes fucked us completely. Fletcher was having one of his better games and with Adam in a midfield two we completely lost our shape. Diouf was poor again but he has twice the presence of Berahino who just doesn’t get into dangerous positions or influence the game at all. Tymon was a disaster in what was already a rotten defence - the lad is desperate for a loan. It was weird. But I thought Fletcher was woeful.
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Post by alster on Dec 16, 2017 22:15:51 GMT
Fletcher was wank again but should have been replaced by Affelay not hollywood Charlie. How is Berahino supposed to even look dangerous if all we do is hoof? However we play, whoever we play, whenever we play, he hasn’t looked dangerous. Diouf is limited but he gets involved in the game, he competes, he knocks defenders about, he gets into useful positions. Berahino looks shot. I don’t see anything useful he contributes. What are his qualities? I don’t even see him making these supposed ‘good runs’ he makes? So answer the question I've posed on numerous other threads. Forget Berahino If we play Diouf as a central forward how often do we put a player of his pace away 1 on 1. If you answer the question truthfully that tells you that we simply don't release the ball early for any player. You maybe aren't seeing him starting his movement because its always killed in its infancy by failing to release the ball early, he's not going to run away from a defence. Its all fairly moot because mainly we just hoof. We could actually possess a striker with devastating pace and a decent touch and finishing and we simply wouldn't play the balls to utilise it.
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Post by Malex on Dec 16, 2017 22:16:17 GMT
Fletcher was wank again but should have been replaced by Affelay not hollywood Charlie. How is Berahino supposed to even look dangerous if all we do is hoof? However we play, whoever we play, whenever we play, he hasn’t looked dangerous. Diouf is limited but he gets involved in the game, he competes, he knocks defenders about, he gets into useful positions. Berahino looks shot. I don’t see anything useful he contributes. What are his qualities? I don’t even see him making these supposed ‘good runs’ he makes? As someone on here once said, "He's like Jermaine Defoe without the finishing"
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 16, 2017 22:18:46 GMT
However we play, whoever we play, whenever we play, he hasn’t looked dangerous. Diouf is limited but he gets involved in the game, he competes, he knocks defenders about, he gets into useful positions. Berahino looks shot. I don’t see anything useful he contributes. What are his qualities? I don’t even see him making these supposed ‘good runs’ he makes? So answer the question I've posed on numerous other threads. Forget Berahino If we play Diouf as a central forward how often do we put a player of his pace away 1 on 1. If you answer the question truthfully that tells you that we simply don't release the ball early for any player. You maybe aren't seeing him starting his movement because its always killed in its infancy by failing to release the ball early, he's not going to run away from a defence. Its all fairly moot because mainly we just hoof. Even just hoofing a striker of quality can anticipate, he can compete, he can get into good positions. This is a striker who scored 14 league goals in a Pulis team. So let’s not pretend this is alien to him, even if we’d like us to offer better, more varied service.
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Post by wembley1972 on Dec 16, 2017 22:27:08 GMT
I respect your opinion but I watched Fletcher give a couple of suicide passes and put it straight out of play. I didn't notice any quick passing or neat through balls, I just don't see him creating anything of note, perhaps I'm being over critical but that's what we need from him. Playing alright against one of the poorer teams isn't good enough to help us out of the mire we are in. With regards to Berahino, I'm not a massive fan to be honest but he hasn't been given much playing time and I think his penalty miss hasn't helped his chances. I'm not even sure he was one of Hughes signings or he would have used him more surely. We chased him for three windows and bid £20m for him at one point. Do you really think the manager of the club wouldn’t want a player we’d go to those lengths for? He’s made over 30 appearances for the club and been here a year. What is he good at? He’s not quick. He’s not physical. He’s not good on the ball. He’s not dangerous. What influence does he have? Fletcher’s pass completion was bettered by only two Stoke players and when he went off we lost our shape completely. That's what makes it baffling, why wouldn't Hughes play him if he was so keen on having him here, for that alone Hughes has to go! Fletchers pass completion is a statistic that means bog all if the passes are sideways and backwards. Assists for goals is what we need, or at least chances made.
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Post by alster on Dec 16, 2017 22:28:34 GMT
So answer the question I've posed on numerous other threads. Forget Berahino If we play Diouf as a central forward how often do we put a player of his pace away 1 on 1. If you answer the question truthfully that tells you that we simply don't release the ball early for any player. You maybe aren't seeing him starting his movement because its always killed in its infancy by failing to release the ball early, he's not going to run away from a defence. Its all fairly moot because mainly we just hoof. Even just hoofing a striker of quality can anticipate, he can compete, he can get into good positions. This is a striker who scored 14 league goals in a Pulis team. So let’s not pretend this is alien to him, even if we’d like us to offer better, more varied service. So you concede we don't provide the type of service a striker like him will thrive on but you think he should be able to rebuild his confidence on whatever shit we serve up. Did he score the 14 goals before or after WBA and Pulis had broken him. It was always going to be a rebuilding job and our effort on that part has been sadly lacking. I'm not his Dad I've got no idea whether we could get him scoring again or not but I'm pretty sure we haven't really tried very hard. Let me put it to you another way I'm pretty certain that Jamie Vardy would not score goals playing in this team the way we play.
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Post by boscfc on Dec 16, 2017 22:29:23 GMT
I think the cheering on of Berahino Adam and Tymon was the crowds way of showing we were behind the team. I'm not surprised that Peters got cheered off, unfortunately for him he has become a bit of a scapegoat, he's not a wingback and has lost his confidence so badly that he is struggling to play at left back now. Tymon was trying a bit too hard to impress but looks promising. Not sure what you were watching, Fletcher was poor today again, too many misplaced or poor passes. Adam was better whe he came on. Diouf will run his balls off but his touch was s woeful, he can trap it further than most players can kick it! You have to blame the manager and coaching staff for the position we are in, all three substitutions were warranted. Diouf is wank. Crouch is even worse. Ramadan has some good attributes...sadly kicking/striking a football isnt one of them. Wow I've had some disagreements with you on the past over Erik and Moses but always thought you were one of the most articulate and sensible posters. Maybe a few too many ales today?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 16, 2017 22:30:52 GMT
We chased him for three windows and bid £20m for him at one point. Do you really think the manager of the club wouldn’t want a player we’d go to those lengths for? He’s made over 30 appearances for the club and been here a year. What is he good at? He’s not quick. He’s not physical. He’s not good on the ball. He’s not dangerous. What influence does he have? Fletcher’s pass completion was bettered by only two Stoke players and when he went off we lost our shape completely. That's what makes it baffling, why wouldn't Hughes play him if he was so keen on having him here, for that alone Hughes has to go! Fletchers pass completion is a statistic that means bog all if the passes are sideways and backwards. Assists for goals is what we need, or at least chances made. We were incredibly static all game - 442 with our squad encourages that - so it can’t always go forwards. If you keep your shape others can provide that - Adam was a headless chicken and they ran through us at will after he came on.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 16, 2017 22:30:54 GMT
Diouf is wank. Crouch is even worse. Ramadan has some good attributes...sadly kicking/striking a football isnt one of them. Wow I've had some disagreements with you on the past over Erik and Moses but always thought you were one of the most articulate and sensible posters. Maybe a few too many ales today? I dont drink.
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Post by boscfc on Dec 16, 2017 22:31:52 GMT
Wow I've had some disagreements with you on the past over Erik and Moses but always thought you were one of the most articulate and sensible posters. Maybe a few too many ales today? I dont drink. Angry then? We all are mate.
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Post by swampySCFC on Dec 16, 2017 22:34:38 GMT
What a pathetic thread, having a cheap pop at a young kid. No its right. He was found wanting
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Post by estp1863 on Dec 16, 2017 22:36:28 GMT
However we play, whoever we play, whenever we play, he hasn’t looked dangerous. Diouf is limited but he gets involved in the game, he competes, he knocks defenders about, he gets into useful positions. Berahino looks shot. I don’t see anything useful he contributes. What are his qualities? I don’t even see him making these supposed ‘good runs’ he makes? As someone on here once said, "He's like Jermaine Defoe without the finishing" Sorry that's just wrong, he needs service that he is not getting, games and one to go in plus faith from a manager. He's rusty and not match sharp too
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Post by kjpt140v on Dec 16, 2017 22:36:28 GMT
The cheers that greeted those changes were seriously, seriously weird. Berahino got a hero’s welcome despite having done absolutely shit all for a year. Tymon is a kid and is light years from being ready. Charlie Adam is Charlie Adam. The crowd acted like Jesus was riding in on a donkey. In reality the changes fucked us completely. Fletcher was having one of his better games and with Adam in a midfield two we completely lost our shape. Diouf was poor again but he has twice the presence of Berahino who just doesn’t get into dangerous positions or influence the game at all. Tymon was a disaster in what was already a rotten defence - the lad is desperate for a loan. Fletcher was having one of his better games? Ridiculous his passing was awful, in fact it's been pretty rubbish all season.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 16, 2017 22:37:29 GMT
Angry then? We all are mate. Furious. Doesnt make what i said less true though. Those 3 players were embarrassingly bad today. Ramadan cant even strike a ball. Seriously. He scuffs it and has no technique at all.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 16, 2017 22:37:57 GMT
As someone on here once said, "He's like Jermaine Defoe without the finishing" Sorry that's just wrong, he needs service that has not getting, games and one to go in plus faith from a manager. He's rusty and not match sharp. He’s been here a year. How long does he need?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 16, 2017 22:38:43 GMT
The cheers that greeted those changes were seriously, seriously weird. Berahino got a hero’s welcome despite having done absolutely shit all for a year. Tymon is a kid and is light years from being ready. Charlie Adam is Charlie Adam. The crowd acted like Jesus was riding in on a donkey. In reality the changes fucked us completely. Fletcher was having one of his better games and with Adam in a midfield two we completely lost our shape. Diouf was poor again but he has twice the presence of Berahino who just doesn’t get into dangerous positions or influence the game at all. Tymon was a disaster in what was already a rotten defence - the lad is desperate for a loan. Fletcher was having one of his better games? Ridiculous his passing was awful, in fact it's been pretty rubbish all season. His passing was better than all but two other players. I’m judging him on today, not the season.
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Post by kjpt140v on Dec 16, 2017 22:39:38 GMT
The cheers that greeted those changes were seriously, seriously weird. Berahino got a hero’s welcome despite having done absolutely shit all for a year. Tymon is a kid and is light years from being ready. Charlie Adam is Charlie Adam. The crowd acted like Jesus was riding in on a donkey. In reality the changes fucked us completely. Fletcher was having one of his better games and with Adam in a midfield two we completely lost our shape. Diouf was poor again but he has twice the presence of Berahino who just doesn’t get into dangerous positions or influence the game at all. Tymon was a disaster in what was already a rotten defence - the lad is desperate for a loan. Did you not see Berahino's runs off the ball, something Diuof doesn't do, you probably didn't cos the midfield didn't either.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 16, 2017 22:41:15 GMT
The cheers that greeted those changes were seriously, seriously weird. Berahino got a hero’s welcome despite having done absolutely shit all for a year. Tymon is a kid and is light years from being ready. Charlie Adam is Charlie Adam. The crowd acted like Jesus was riding in on a donkey. In reality the changes fucked us completely. Fletcher was having one of his better games and with Adam in a midfield two we completely lost our shape. Diouf was poor again but he has twice the presence of Berahino who just doesn’t get into dangerous positions or influence the game at all. Tymon was a disaster in what was already a rotten defence - the lad is desperate for a loan. Did you not see Berahino's runs off the ball, something Diuof doesn't do, you probably didn't cos the midfield didn't either. Which ones specifically? I hear this all the time, I never see any actual evidence of it. When did this actually happen? Isn’t it about time he did something on the ball, rather than all this apparently amazing stuff he does off it, like a footballing poltergeist none of his team mates ever see?
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Post by alster on Dec 16, 2017 22:43:36 GMT
The cheers that greeted those changes were seriously, seriously weird. Berahino got a hero’s welcome despite having done absolutely shit all for a year. Tymon is a kid and is light years from being ready. Charlie Adam is Charlie Adam. The crowd acted like Jesus was riding in on a donkey. In reality the changes fucked us completely. Fletcher was having one of his better games and with Adam in a midfield two we completely lost our shape. Diouf was poor again but he has twice the presence of Berahino who just doesn’t get into dangerous positions or influence the game at all. Tymon was a disaster in what was already a rotten defence - the lad is desperate for a loan. Did you not see Berahino's runs off the ball, something Diuof doesn't do, you probably didn't cos the midfield didn't either. Ah but you see you have to wait until the midfielder has assessed his options and picked the perfect ball by which time your attackers are swamped so you might as well just hoof and hope.
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Post by kjpt140v on Dec 16, 2017 22:48:13 GMT
Did you not see Berahino's runs off the ball, something Diuof doesn't do, you probably didn't cos the midfield didn't either. Which ones specifically? I hear this all the time, I never see any actual evidence of it. When did this actually happen? Isn’t it about time he did something on the ball, rather than all this apparently amazing stuff he does off it, like a footballing poltergeist none of his team mates ever see? Obviously you're a ball watcher and not a game reader. Not to worry I was like that when I was 11.
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Post by estp1863 on Dec 16, 2017 22:49:58 GMT
Sorry that's just wrong, he needs service that has not getting, games and one to go in plus faith from a manager. He's rusty and not match sharp. He’s been here a year. How long does he need? As long as it takes to get an effective side behind him. It's poor, we lack everything that creates good goalscoring opportunities at the end of the day. I watched palace today they created chances that we don't that Berahino would of scored. They looked a handy team today. They have two wingers with pace who put balls in, they get players in the box, we are truly awful atm and we won't see the best of Berahino or anybody for me until the 7 players behind them are both effective and the team is balanced. We're just a team full of individuals that seems to make it up as we go along. You can't do that in top league football and expect to get away with it or any of our strikers to be effective, surely. We don't have two good full backs with an engine to get up and down as well as cross. We don't have wingers with genuine pace, we don't have a Whelan, we don't have a fitter more mobile Charlie Adam, we don't have any goalscoring midfielders that get forward in the box. We must be a wet dream to play against, yet people are judging our most forward players
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 16, 2017 22:50:11 GMT
Which ones specifically? I hear this all the time, I never see any actual evidence of it. When did this actually happen? Isn’t it about time he did something on the ball, rather than all this apparently amazing stuff he does off it, like a footballing poltergeist none of his team mates ever see? Obviously you're a ball watcher and not a game reader. Not to worry I was like that when I was 11. I’m pretty confident I’m not, I think I’m pretty decent an analysing a game of football. Again, I’m sure you’re going to give me some examples of these amazing runs and show me the error of my 11 year old ways...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 16, 2017 22:51:28 GMT
He’s been here a year. How long does he need? As long as it takes to get an effective side behind him. It's poor, we lack everything that creates good goalscoring opportunities at the end of the day. I watched palace today they created chances that we don't that Berahino would of scored. They looked a handy team today. They have two wingers with pace who put balls in, they get players in the box, we are truly awful atm and we won't see the best of Berahino or anybody for me until the 7 players behind them are both effective and the team is balanced. We're just a team full of individuals that seems to make it up as we go along. You can't do that in top league football and expect to get away with it or any of our strikers to be effective, surely. We don't have two good full backs with an engine to get up and down as well as cross. We don't have wingers with genuine pace, we don't have a Whelan, we don't have a fitter more mobile Charlie Adam, we don't have any goalscoring midfielders that get forward in the box. We must be a wet dream to play against, yet people are judging our most forward players Berahino has been worse than our other forward players though. And they haven’t been great. If we wants a run of games he needs to show something, we can’t carry passengers because of what they cost.
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Post by alster on Dec 16, 2017 22:52:06 GMT
Did you not see Berahino's runs off the ball, something Diuof doesn't do, you probably didn't cos the midfield didn't either. Which ones specifically? I hear this all the time, I never see any actual evidence of it. When did this actually happen? Isn’t it about time he did something on the ball, rather than all this apparently amazing stuff he does off it, like a footballing poltergeist none of his team mates ever see? The ones where he gets a pace off the defenders shoulder and terminates his run because the ball isn't coming, if you're waiting for him to sprint away from him its not going to happen. I'm happy to concede that because of his lack of pace and power he's not an easy striker to play to but for you to suggest we couldn't try to play to him better is fairly ridiculous. Our current favoured tactic of lumping it to Crouch from the start has been our least successful method of goal getting yet here we are doing it again and expecting a different outcome, definition of stupidity.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 16, 2017 22:54:52 GMT
Which ones specifically? I hear this all the time, I never see any actual evidence of it. When did this actually happen? Isn’t it about time he did something on the ball, rather than all this apparently amazing stuff he does off it, like a footballing poltergeist none of his team mates ever see? The ones where he gets a pace off the defenders shoulder and terminates his run because the ball isn't coming, if you're waiting for him to sprint away from him its not going to happen. I'm happy to concede that because of his lack of pace and power he's not an easy striker to play to but for you to suggest we couldn't try to play to him better is fairly ridiculous. Our current favoured tactic of lumping it to Crouch from the start has been our least successful method of goal getting yet here we are doing it again and expecting a different outcome, definition of stupidity. I don’t think he’d score goals for anyone in this league. Any top level attributes he had have gone. When we had the ball in wide areas he was just stood outside the box, nowhere. No runs to the near or far post, no movement to drag a defender with him for someone else, nothing.
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Post by mcw on Dec 17, 2017 0:02:35 GMT
He’s been here a year. How long does he need? As long as it takes to get an effective side behind him. It's poor, we lack everything that creates good goalscoring opportunities at the end of the day. I watched palace today they created chances that we don't that Berahino would of scored. They looked a handy team today. They have two wingers with pace who put balls in, they get players in the box, we are truly awful atm and we won't see the best of Berahino or anybody for me until the 7 players behind them are both effective and the team is balanced. We're just a team full of individuals that seems to make it up as we go along. You can't do that in top league football and expect to get away with it or any of our strikers to be effective, surely. We don't have two good full backs with an engine to get up and down as well as cross. We don't have wingers with genuine pace, we don't have a Whelan, we don't have a fitter more mobile Charlie Adam, we don't have any goalscoring midfielders that get forward in the box. We must be a wet dream to play against, yet people are judging our most forward players Agree, we are not quick enough in physical or mental speed to break the opposition down. The forwards are feeding off scraps as we try to pick holes in defences as we have ponderously made our way up the pitch. The 5 at the back has been disastrous- slow march up the pitch, both "wingbacks" camped on the oppo 18 yd box until a crap ball goes in- possession breaks down, thump the ball down either channel and we are up against one on one with the our centre backs who must be the slowest in the league!
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